Isaiah Hodgins claimed off waivers by Giants

[Scott7975]

14 minutes ago, 947 said:

The biggest issue the Giants have been having with WRs is understanding the playbook, with the option routes & nuances. They had reduced Kadarius Toney to WR6 coming into the season because he just couldn't get it.

 

Hodgins already knows Daboll's playbook, don't be surprised to see him get an immediate opportunity to play.

 

If its true that he didnt get Dabolls playbook then I doubt he is going to get Reids playbook either.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

When did we waive him?  When T White was activated?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

So they have taken Antonio Williams and now Isaiah Hodgins from us?! Who is next— Christian Wade?! 

[Mango]

What a bummer. I really like the kid. What an unlucky string of injuries his first two years. 
 

Glad he’s getting his shot on a 53. Hope he makes the best of it. 

[GunnerBill]

Big slot who struggles to separate but is a good locker room guy. We had a few of those types in 2017 too.

7 minutes ago, mannc said:

When did we waive him?  When T White was activated?

 

Kind of. Yesterday we made multiple moves... waived Bryant and Hodgins, traded Moss and replaced them with White, Hines and Marlow. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If its true that he didnt get Dabolls playbook then I doubt he is going to get Reids playbook either.

 

Daboll's playbook is more complex for sure. The E-P requires more reading of defenses than the Reid spread style WCO.... it isn't learning the plays that is harder it is route adjustment based on reading the play. It is why New England struggles to draft receivers and why Diggs and Josh worked instantly. You need receivers who read the defense the same way your QB does. Much more mentally taxing on a WR.

[Success]

Great team for Hodgins right now.  Happy for him.

 

[longtimebillsfan]

I hope he gets a chance to show what he can do.

 

I always felt he had a great deal of potential and a very good work ethic.

 

All the best Isaiah.  Sorry to see you go.

[Aussie Joe]

58 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I think there was an unspoken caveat there "if he clears waivers"

 

Just having a friendly dig at someone having a "bet each way"'...

 

Saying he is "likely to be back on PS" and then "saw the writing on the wall " that the Giants would pick him up are a little contradictory...

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Daboll

 

 

Fair is fair he never really got much of a shot here, hell we keep talking about bringing in OBJ.

How do you figure he never got much of a shot here?  The Bills kept him around through multiple injuries and kept giving him opportunities to make the roster as a contributing player.  He never rose to the occasion.  They very likely would have signed him back to the practice squad if he was not claimed, Giving him yet another opportunity. I wish him well with the Giants.  He has a better chance there as they have an inferior roster.  

[Brand J]

I liked his potential more than David Sills who we had here years ago. Sills has been a regular in that NYG WR rotation.

[John from Riverside]

Best of luck to Hodgins I have been a firm supporter of his and believe he could’ve helped this team but if they’re not going to play him and just keep bouncing him to the practice squad let him go somewhere where he can actually play

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, FLFan said:

How do you figure he never got much of a shot here?  The Bills kept him around through multiple injuries and kept giving him opportunities to make the roster as a contributing player.  He never rose to the occasion.  They very likely would have signed him back to the practice squad if he was not claimed, Giving him yet another opportunity. I wish him well with the Giants.  He has a better chance there as they have an inferior roster.  

You literally said why, it was a crowded room.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Warcodered

[947]

9 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I liked his potential more than David Sills who we had here years ago. Sills has been a regular in that NYG WR rotation.

Sills has been terrible, but does have a catch in every Giants game this season. He's been playing largely out of necessity, he's the most likely one for Hodgins to get a shot over.

[seannc]

I hope he gets a shot with the Giants and I'm happy for him. Between him, Moss, and Stevenson, surely the Bills could've drafted an OL who would've been more valuable to them right now.

[ColoradoBills]

Hodgins is the poster child for this message board.  All the way from totally worthless to diamond in the rough.

The reality is he is somewhere between a priority PS call up and a potential WR5 who can take snaps outside or in the slot.

 

The Bills are a bit weaker not having him on the PS and the Giants are better having him on their 53.

[TheBrownBear]

Good for Isaiah.  There just wasn't room here for a guy with his skillset.  Hope he sticks for awhile with the Giants.

[Beck Water]

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Daboll's playbook is more complex for sure. The E-P requires more reading of defenses than the Reid spread style WCO.... it isn't learning the plays that is harder it is route adjustment based on reading the play. It is why New England struggles to draft receivers and why Diggs and Josh worked instantly. You need receivers who read the defense the same way your QB does. Much more mentally taxing on a WR.

 

I could be wrong, but I think the WCO as Reid and Bieniemy are currently running it also requires reading defenses and running route options based upon what the WR sees (and giving the QB "good body language" to help them understand what the WR is going to do).

 

Now, the bit about the complexity of the playbook could be true - Daboll was rumored to have a ridiculously thick playbook - but I'd bet Andy Reid's playbook is just as thick.

 

I think there was a time when what you say is true of WCO - a more rigid timing-based passing offense with precise routes timed to precise dropbacks - and for some teams perhaps it's true - but certainly Kelce is running option routes and Hill seemed to be.  My understanding is these days the top teams pretty much all run the same plays and route concepts, what's different is the terminology. 

 

It's like, one playbook describes plays in Portuguese, and the other describes essentially the same plays in Flemish.  So the Flemish speakers need to learn Portuguese and vice versa.

 

Under Shurmur, DeFilippo, and Stefanski I'm pretty sure the offense Minnesota ran was nominally a WCO, so I don't think coming from an E-P style offense was the reason Josh and Stef worked well, if that was your meaning.  I think they put in a lot of grind together.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I wonder if they called Giants first to see if they could get a 7th.

Giants have to be in top 6 or 7 on the waiver wire order so at least 3/4th of the league didn't think enough of him to claim on waivers.

[akcash]

I honestly could see him being a WR2 in fantasy.

[Ya Digg?]

Oh no what are the Bills going to do without his one catch?!?!

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

Oh no what are the Bills going to do without his one catch?!?!

 

Maybe let's hope that now that he is gone that Tanner Gentry isn't forced to be his replacement.

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Daboll's playbook is more complex for sure. The E-P requires more reading of defenses than the Reid spread style WCO.... it isn't learning the plays that is harder it is route adjustment based on reading the play. It is why New England struggles to draft receivers and why Diggs and Josh worked instantly. You need receivers who read the defense the same way your QB does. Much more mentally taxing on a WR.

In 2022 these are more Verbiage than anything… obviously in the 70s there was a bigger difference between the EP and WCO and Coryell systems 

 

now most plays and formations are recycled … football has been around a long time … it’s primarily the way to get the playcall in … there are still west coast philosophies but you can run them in any verbiage system 

 

you can have run n shoot option routes in EP offense or WCO … the difference will be the verbiage and complexity 

 

A typical WCO playcall could look like …

 

Green Right X Shift Viper Right 382 X Stick Lookie… it’s calling protections , formation and route concept 

 

tremendously more intricate than a simple EP verbiage… and when effective simple is always better 

 

an EP call
 

F right 72 Ghost /Tosser 

 

Gets out the same formation protections and routes… much simpler And easier to add to the playbook

Edited November 3, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

the legend grows...

[msw2112]

I'm sure the Bills were hoping he would clear waivers and be re-signed to the Practice Squad, but they had to take the chance to make the roster moves they needed/wanted to make.  In the end, it isn't a huge loss.  He played sparingly anyway and, barring another barrage of injuries, he was not going to break into the rotation.  And maybe an OBJ signing is on the horizon....So we wish Hodgins well with the Giants and hope he gets a chance to play, contribute, and have a nice NFL career.  I think he'll do OK there as a WR 4-7, but I don't think he'll come back to haunt the Bills.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'd put the over/under on how many times Hodgins will be riding waivers again in the next two seasons at 6.   

 

Surfs up.........headed to NJ

 

[Rc2catch]

Hey good for him. I’ll cheer for him over there 

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Hey good for him. I’ll cheer for him over there 

Yeah I am rooting for dabol already to do well there’s no reason not to root for Hodgens as well we’re not playing them

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah I am rooting for dabol already to do well there’s no reason not to root for Hodgens as well we’re not playing them

What Daboll has done is amazing. There is not much talent on that team but they are playing their hearts out for him. 

[Cash]

I was pretty high on IH when we drafted him and again last preseason. After seeing him a bit more this year (mostly in preseason), my take is that he belongs in the NFL but doesn’t really move the needle. Good contested catch guy, but he has to be because he doesn’t get much separation. With the right opportunity, he could put together a pretty decent career, but I’ll be surprised if he’s ever a star. 
 

I definitely wish him well, and if he gets cut again I’d be happy to get him back. 

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Cash said:

I was pretty high on IH when we drafted him and again last preseason. After seeing him a bit more this year (mostly in preseason), my take is that he belongs in the NFL but doesn’t really move the needle. Good contested catch guy, but he has to be because he doesn’t get much separation. With the right opportunity, he could put together a pretty decent career, but I’ll be surprised if he’s ever a star. 
 

I definitely wish him well, and if he gets cut again I’d be happy to get him back. 

Agree.  Something about IHs style of play reminds me of Jordan Mathews.  

 

He will definitely get some looks with Gmen down the stretch, hope it works out for him

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, HOUSE said:

GB is sleeping at the switch 

A-Aron says get Kumerow back or bust! 😜

[Malazan]

I'm worried we let another Robert Foster get away

[Dan]

I’ve been secretly hoping we had a hidden gem after the glowing press on him and Davis in their rookie camps.  But due to injury, and certainly other reasons, he’s not been able to crack the roster.  I wish him well with the Giants.   He deserves a shot to prove he can play in the league. 
 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think the WCO as Reid and Bieniemy are currently running it also requires reading defenses and running route options based upon what the WR sees (and giving the QB "good body language" to help them understand what the WR is going to do).

 

Now, the bit about the complexity of the playbook could be true - Daboll was rumored to have a ridiculously thick playbook - but I'd bet Andy Reid's playbook is just as thick.

 

I think there was a time when what you say is true of WCO - a more rigid timing-based passing offense with precise routes timed to precise dropbacks - and for some teams perhaps it's true - but certainly Kelce is running option routes and Hill seemed to be.  My understanding is these days the top teams pretty much all run the same plays and route concepts, what's different is the terminology. 

 

It's like, one playbook describes plays in Portuguese, and the other describes essentially the same plays in Flemish.  So the Flemish speakers need to learn Portuguese and vice versa.

 

Under Shurmur, DeFilippo, and Stefanski I'm pretty sure the offense Minnesota ran was nominally a WCO, so I don't think coming from an E-P style offense was the reason Josh and Stef worked well, if that was your meaning.  I think they put in a lot of grind together.

 

No I didn't mean that re Minnesota. I meant that Josh and Stef built a chemistry so Josh is pretty certain Stef is seeing things the same way. 

 

As for KC having option routes in their playbook, yea, they do. But there is still a lot of basic Mike Holmgren / Bill Walsh standard WCO in what KC run. It's dressed up with a lot of window dressing but it is timing concept WCO at its core where the receiver is just getting to a landmark. Of course Mike Kafka is the OC with the Giants so I am sure they are incorperating some of that there too. But core E-P offenses are still more complex to lean than core WCO ones. There is some complexity in both but there is also more simple in the WCO... more gimme plays where a WR has one thing to think about.

[BobbyC81]

11 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

All the best to Isaiah Hodgins.  Played well in limited action, just not well enough to crack the top 5-6.

 

Wikipedia still lists him as a FA.

You can make Wikipedia say that Mickey Mouse is president.

[YoloinOhio]

Finally 

[machine gun kelly]

13 hours ago, 947 said:

I predicted this in another thread. NYG is a great spot for him to get on the field. Wish him the best.

I was thinking the same.  Hodgins will now get a shot to be a starter you would think.

[Captain Hindsight]

Good for him, he’s had plenty of opportunity here. Giants roster is going to give a much better chance to succeed 

[BillsFanSD]

Good for him.  I hope he goes on to have a strong career for the Giants.  

 

The Bills are stacked.  We have too many guys at the bottom of our roster to carry all of them, and we're going to have to let some really good players walk in FA.  This is what life is like for good teams.  We never had to worry about these trade-offs during the drought years.