Josh Norman released

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Here will be the new No2 CB, on a short term deal as he gets back in the scheme that made him alot of money

In a heavy man Scheme. 

 

He will excel back in that scheme he should have never left.  and it isnt going to be big money.

 

If its incentive-laden and low guarantee then it truly doesn't matter.  If he doesn't play well they can just cut him.  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

If its incentive-laden and low guarantee then it truly doesn't matter.  If he doesn't play well they can just cut him.  

 

That is what it will be, a 1 year small contract that he could make more on incentives.  

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

after 4 crappy seasons? Gonna be 33 this season. Don't know why we'd be too interested.

 

klos, you hit it right on the nail.  Too old, too boisterous, and not productive in years.  Pass.

[DJB]

My only question is when he played for McDermott he played zone. 

 

Was he not asked to play man in Washington? 

 

Lots of guys excel at one and struggle with the other. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Norman, who made his debut in 2012, had several season of elite production when he was with the Carolina Panthers, and was named a first-team All-Pro in 2015. He signed a five-year, $75 million contract with the Redskins before the 2016 season, but unfortunately those elite numbers didn’t follow him to Washington.

 

Over four seasons with the Redskins he intercepted seven passes and forced eight fumbles, well off the pace of even just his final season with the Panthers, during which he’d  intercepted four passes and returned two for touchdowns. He also had a habit of getting lost in coverage and rode the bench in the late portion of the 2019 season.

 

The Redskins will save just under $12.5 million in cap space by releasing Norman now, and take a $3 million hit in dead money.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-redskins-release-cb-josh-norman-152141231.html

[JGMcD2]

28 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm surprised ppl aren't higher on Levi. He was apart of a top 5 pass D in back to back seasons , with Tre on the other side . I still love his upside. I hope they grab a CB like KJ or give him an offer. Unless an elite or clear upgrade is available. 

 

I'm almost more concerned with the slot , I love Taron but his physical play , which I love , has made him injury prone

It’s because Levi struggled for a stretch last season and most posters on this board aren’t ok with the ups and downs that occur week to week or season to season in the NFL. Player has to be an All-Pro consistently or else they’re worthless. 
 

It’s called being a fan and not having any ability to detach and assess, or evaluate talent. 

[That's No Moon]

Different question. Can he play free safety? 

[Santana]

He would be a perfect fit for McDermott's defense.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'd pass. Levi is younger, cheaper, and better. I'd be in favor of bringing K. Johnson back on a 3 year deal. 

Could be interesting as a backup FS for Hyde. He played his best football in a zone defense. I bet the switch to FS would be possible, not easy but possible. There are no good backup options for Hyde on the roster now.

[HOUSE]

He ranked as Pro Football Focus’ 111th best cornerback in the NFL. Wallace was at 44 while Johnson was at 23. It hasn’t been just this season, either. Per PFF, in his first six seasons, Norman allowed 13 touchdowns. This past season, he’s allowed seven and over the past two, 16 total.

Plus, again, he’s 32, and on top of that, he was released by the Redskins. Who is their head coach? Ron Rivera, who was in Carolina in 2015 as well. Rivera didn’t think he could turn around Norman, even.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/14/redskins-release-josh-norman-buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott/

Edited February 14, 2020 by HOUSE

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I’m not losing any sleep over JN.  But I just think given his salary and supposed role in Washington, it would be a much different situation here.  But I’m more than fine with drafting a guy.  In fact, I’m prepared for a 1st round cb to make BillfromNYC lose his mind again! ?

CBs don't age well. We are better off drafting one (not necessarily in the first round). Given Norman's age and his performance he should be a hard pass for the Bills. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Another player to keep an eye on possibly?

 

#Redskins are releasing CB Josh Norman, source says. Intriguing situation to watch, as he now has time to find his new team ahead of free agency.

 

-Mike Garafalo

That’s because zone CB are not worth over 60 mil 5 years. The most I would pay is a 12.5 mil a year average for a zone CB. We will be in the same boat with White when he wants his 85 mil for 5 years

[Rob's House]

Norman played very well in a system similar to the one we run, but Dan the Fan & Bruce Allen don't understand concepts like scheme fit.

 

They just saw "good CB" and backed up the Brinks truck for a zone corner only to play him in a man heavy coverage scheme. He didn't suck, but he didn't play up to the level of his contract because he was never that kind of player in the first place.

 

Carolina thought enough of him to tag him while trying to re-sign him but pulled the tag when it became clear he wasn't going to what they thought he was worth.

 

No one was more surprised than Norman when the Redskins offered to make him the highest paid CB in the league.

 

Put back in a scheme that better utilizes his skill set, and at a more reasonable price, he could be a valuable acquisition.

[Captain Murica]

 

cleaning house

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

It’s because Levi struggled for a stretch last season and most posters on this board aren’t ok with the ups and downs that occur week to week or season to season in the NFL. Player has to be an All-Pro consistently or else they’re worthless. 
 

It’s called being a fan and not having any ability to detach and assess, or evaluate talent. 

I totally agree. Just figured he's only going into year 3 and was an UDFA rookie , so ppl would cut him some slack. Definitely add competition, best man wins 

I mean, I'd actually like to add the best CB available and build on a strength. AJ Bouye if released is interesting. 

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

Levi is free garbage... he's also 24.

 

I don't  get the Levi is garbage thing.  I mean, if we have one starting CB who is garbage, the other 3 guys in our secondary are absolute studs then.  I think Levi is just unfairly compared to White, who, IMO, is the best CB in the league, along with Hyde/Poyer, who are also fantastic.  

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

id be curious about the advanced metric guys chiming in on if he played any better in certain sets, zone vs man etc... the last two years or just toast at all times 

[JGMcD2]

48 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I totally agree. Just figured he's only going into year 3 and was an UDFA rookie , so ppl would cut him some slack. Definitely add competition, best man wins 

I mean, I'd actually like to add the best CB available and build on a strength. AJ Bouye if released is interesting. 

I think I commented on this in another thread about signing Greg Olsen. Everyone is clamoring to cut Croom/Sweeney/Kroft/Smith if we sign him... why? 
 

I’d rather just keep 5 TE for camp that have all played meaningful NFL snaps and see what happens in a competition. Your entire team can’t be filled with superstars but if you can get some veteran talent that’s had some success and sprinkle it everywhere it’s never a bad thing. 
 

We’ve got like 56 players on our roster right now, all of which were part of the organization this past season during our playoff run... so a bunch of guys who know what it takes to win. Only a handful of FA, most of which will be back for cheap + $90M to spend and 9(?) draft picks... why not just stockpile assets and see what happens? 

[DJB]

44 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

id be curious about the advanced metric guys chiming in on if he played any better in certain sets, zone vs man etc... the last two years or just toast at all times 

 

That was my question too earlier in the thread.

 

He definitely played zone with McDermott in Carolina, but was he not tasked with playing man in Washington?

 

Some guys just excel in one and are poor in the other

Edited February 14, 2020 by DJB

[Spiderweb]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Levi is garbage. Bring in Norman to compete for the 2 or 3 spot and see how it goes. I'm for re-signing KJ too. Would rather have the 2 of them (Norman/KJ) battling it out than Levi.

 

Agreed we need to draft one, but might be able to find one in the 4th or 5th.

Ah, Norman is pretty much garbage now and he's old. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Ah, Norman is pretty much garbage now and he's old. 

 

Yeah, I've come around to that in the 4 hours since I originally posted. haha.

 

Maaaaaybe for non-guaranteed vet minimum, I'd bring him into camp to see whats up and let him compete and push the younger guys.

 

But yeah, I think I saw that he played 8 games and gave up 7 TDs. yikes.

[Spiderweb]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, I've come around to that in the 4 hours since I originally posted. haha.

 

Maaaaaybe for non-guaranteed vet minimum, I'd bring him into camp to see whats up and let him compete and push the younger guys.

 

But yeah, I think I saw that he played 8 games and gave up 7 TDs. yikes.

He left whatever game he had in Carolina. We should look elsewhere.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't  get the Levi is garbage thing.  I mean, if we have one starting CB who is garbage, the other 3 guys in our secondary are absolute studs then.  I think Levi is just unfairly compared to White, who, IMO, is the best CB in the league, along with Hyde/Poyer, who are also fantastic.  

 

Speaking only for myself and as someone who calls Levi garbage, I am definitely not comparing how he plays to how Tre/Hyde/Poyer play, but rather watching him get picked on and burnt again and again.

1 minute ago, Spiderweb said:

He left whatever game he had in Carolina. We should look elsewhere.

 

Although folks raise a good point. Was it the scheme and what he was asked to do in Carolina that made him so good? If so, that leads to the question, can he regain any of it back by coming back to McD?

 

If he's cheap and non-guaranteed, I'm not against bringing him in. Not counting on anything though.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

 

cleaning house

Paging @thebandit27

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't  get the Levi is garbage thing.  I mean, if we have one starting CB who is garbage, the other 3 guys in our secondary are absolute studs then.  I think Levi is just unfairly compared to White, who, IMO, is the best CB in the league, along with Hyde/Poyer, who are also fantastic.  

He's not garbage and he is a good depth guy who works his tail off.  He's just not fast enough to be a reliable #2 CB.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

 

cleaning house

Again!

 

Snyder sure knows how to run a team.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Norman is terrible.  He couldn't even start for the Deadskins much of the season, and he wasn't hurt. 

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't  get the Levi is garbage thing.  I mean, if we have one starting CB who is garbage, the other 3 guys in our secondary are absolute studs then.  I think Levi is just unfairly compared to White, who, IMO, is the best CB in the league, along with Hyde/Poyer, who are also fantastic.  

Levi isn't going to take you anywhere.  He's simply not good, White or no White.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He was just so bad in Washington. Like bad bad. Now he’s old, too. Just not feeling it. 

 

 

...yup....whoa no if Rivera says no..........

[Augie]

If there’s one position I trust McD to get right, it’s DB. Don’t let anything like loyalty come into the picture, just do it right. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Norman was paid biggly last season and that terrible team benched him.  Should tell you plenty.

[Chicken Boo]

He would better serve himself by moving to safety.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't  get the Levi is garbage thing.  I mean, if we have one starting CB who is garbage, the other 3 guys in our secondary are absolute studs then.  I think Levi is just unfairly compared to White, who, IMO, is the best CB in the league, along with Hyde/Poyer, who are also fantastic.  

I think this argument is valid but there's no denying that Levi's play fell off substantially in 2019 compared to 2018. Maybe he bounces back some but I can easily see McD drafting a CB2 future guy. Wallace is not a long term solution. 

[Nanker]

Watch at 50 seconds in:

Pennington on a washed up Robinson.

[NewEra]

I’d try and bring him in for close to the minimum with no gtd money and see what he has left.  I’d like to sign many players to that same deal.  

[Clemfield2622]

this has a legit chance to happen IMO

[Buffalo86]

Never heard of him, but...

ESPN's Marcel Louis-Jacques suggests the Bills as a landing spot for free agent Josh Norman.

This is dot-connecting, as Norman played for Sean McDermott during their time in Carolina. The Bills are in the market for a No. 2 corner with Levi Wallace and Kevin Johnson both free agents, so Norman to Buffalo makes some sense. After a disastrous 2019, Norman should settle for a prove-it deal this offseason.

RELATED: 

• Buffalo Bills

SOURCE: Marcel Louis-Jacques on Twitter

Feb 14, 2020, 7:12 PM ET

[Dkollidas]

1 hour ago, Buffalo86 said:

Never heard of him, but...

ESPN's Marcel Louis-Jacques suggests the Bills as a landing spot for free agent Josh Norman.

This is dot-connecting, as Norman played for Sean McDermott during their time in Carolina. The Bills are in the market for a No. 2 corner with Levi Wallace and Kevin Johnson both free agents, so Norman to Buffalo makes some sense. After a disastrous 2019, Norman should settle for a prove-it deal this offseason.

RELATED: 

• Buffalo Bills

SOURCE: Marcel Louis-Jacques on Twitter

Feb 14, 2020, 7:12 PM ET

MLJ doesn’t even take the time to realize Wallace is an ERFA, and is basically 100% going to be in Buffalo in 2020. I see the idea as everyone does. I think this might be one of those things Beane talked about in a presser basically talking the coaches out of certain guys because they know the guy personally or his coaches etc and to look at the film and see the player. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think I commented on this in another thread about signing Greg Olsen. Everyone is clamoring to cut Croom/Sweeney/Kroft/Smith if we sign him... why? 
 

I’d rather just keep 5 TE for camp that have all played meaningful NFL snaps and see what happens in a competition. Your entire team can’t be filled with superstars but if you can get some veteran talent that’s had some success and sprinkle it everywhere it’s never a bad thing. 
 

We’ve got like 56 players on our roster right now, all of which were part of the organization this past season during our playoff run... so a bunch of guys who know what it takes to win. Only a handful of FA, most of which will be back for cheap + $90M to spend and 9(?) draft picks... why not just stockpile assets and see what happens? 

 

Fair question.

 

Has someone really suggested cutting Sweeney?  I searched and did not find.  That would make no sense.  He's entering his 2nd season where players often show big growth, he's inexpensive, and he played well in the Jets game.  He does not play teams (at least, hasn't yet).    He's flashed, he's cheap, he's got plenty of room to grow.  Cutting him would be dumb, unless he's just totally out-competed in training camp and even then gotta ask "is the competition a pre-season hero?"

Croom, as I understand it, would be a FA if he hadn't been placed on IR so the Bills get another year of him if they want.  He's cheap.  In his single playing season 2018 (2nd year), he contributed roughly as many YPG and same catch % as rookie Sweeney.  In theory, there's no reason not to bring him into training camp.  In practice: suppose he does out-play Sweeney in camp.  Sweeney looked good in his rookie season against Jets starting D in a game they wanted to win last December and will be under contract for 2 years.  Croom spent his rookie season on the practice squad, hasn't seen the field since 2018 (at which point he contributed ~= rookie Sweeney) and has 1 more year only because he was IR'd in 2019.  If Croom out-plays Sweeney and you have to choose between them, just how sure are ya he isn't "pre-season hero" who will vanish when it's for real?  Fans don't like Croom on the team because he's famously dating the owner's daughter so they feel it's nepotism.  Cut Sweeney and lose his 2 years, watch Croom be "meh" in the season, and hear that roar.

 

Smith fills a different role on the team, primarily a blocker (though Man! he whiffed on a couple in the playoff game.  Ouch.)   He plays teams.  His penalties sucked, but he did seem to get "locked in" following Cle when McD called him out in a presser.  It's only a $500k roster bonus to bring him into training camp, so why not?  One reason: seeing Smith split out wide and running deep routes is inconsistent with the philosophy "put the best playmakers in position to make plays".  I am fine with keeping Smith, provided McDermott puts Daboll in a headlock and tells him he never, ever, ever wants to see that again.  Unless Smith catches a TD pass in which case he's a genius.  Heh.  JK, pass to D-Dawk instead.

 

Kroft is the only guy that IMO it really might make sense to move on from before TC if we sign another veteran TE.  The reason is $$.  $2M of his salary fully guarantees on the 5th day of the league year, plus a $750M signing bonus. He's a $6.6M cap hit next season, and his play last season simply did not live up to that, including in the final game of the season when Kroft played 50% of the snaps and Knox wore street clothes.  I saw some good blocking out of him, but he also got totally pwned at times, including on that key play where Mercilus strip-sacked Allen vs. Hou - that was "dang, Knox could of whiffed that".  Obviously, the coaches and trainers know more than we fans; it's entirely possible that Kroft was still rehabbing his injuries and playing hampered last season and will come back fully fit and ready to roar, but the same caveat "is he a TC lion?" might apply.  If cap is not an issue and if the team wants to make a $2.75M bet that's the case, Go For It. 

 

It would actually be fantastic to have 3 great TE who can block and catch next season and I'm for any means to make that happen.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

What are ppls thoughts on AJ Bouye? Lot of National and local Jags  Media expect him to be cut to save money. 28 years old. 6'0 190. I always thought of him as a borderline elite CB. 

[CommonCents]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

What are ppls thoughts on AJ Bouye? Lot of National and local Jags  Media expect him to be cut to save money. 28 years old. 6'0 190. I always thought of him as a borderline elite CB. 

I love Bouye, he is super competitive and would be a great fit. I don’t see the Bills spending that type of money for a CB though.