JGMcD2

Sigh, it wasn’t the original argument. You made a blanket statement about finding elite talent in the draft. Was it Veach who negotiated the trade up from 27 to 10 too? Sounds a lot like the theories on here that Brandon Beane was running the Bills 2017 Draft from Charlotte!

Is it? Here is the first post that I replied to from you: Yep. I'm not the one arguing Beane has had more busts than others. I actually think he has had less. The issue I have with his drafting is at the other end of the scale. Here is your reply to me: I get it. It is harder drafting where the Bills do. And that is a legit excuse 2 years in. 3 years in. 4 years in. Beane is 8 drafts in. Other than 2018 - where drafting Allen trumps all else - he hasn't even had a draft that matched McDermott's 2017 haul of White, Dawkins, Milano. This isn't a Beane sucks or fire Beane post. But it is a legitmate criticsm at this stage. You're moving the goal posts, this is not something I expect out of you.

I'm not assuming anything - Rousseau's production has increased as his volume has increased since his rookie season (Age 21), and he's remained consistent with 80+ grades from PFF during that timeframe. Verse is already at the upper-limit of how many snaps a DE is going to play, and already wasn't as productive as Rousseau in the counting statistics like Sacks, TFL, PD, FF, Hits.

You care that McDermott/Whaley drafted White, Dawkins and Milano the year before but you don't give a flying ***** that Dorsey drafted Mahomes, Kelce and Jones? Gunner, that doesn't make any sense. You're grading them on a completely different scale then. This whole discourse is centered around Beane's ability to draft elite talent compared to his peers.

Clearly, you're just ignoring it because it disproves your statement.

We're talking about drafts since 2018. We agreed that Howie has drafted one elite player since 2018 (Mailata) and Veach has drafted two elite players since 2018 (McDuffie and Humphrey). I don't care that John Dorsey drafted Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones for Brett Veach to inherit. I don't care that Howie Roseman drafted Lane Johnson 4th overall half a decade before Brandon Beane arrived in Buffalo.

Except for the fact that he has, and it was carefully curated for you.

Can you help me better understand where the disconnect is then? Whether we quibble over a guy or two... we've come to terms with the fact that he's done just as well as Veach and maybe a tick behind Roseman (I'm not counting Lane Johnson, it was 5 years before Beane sat in the GM chair)?

100 more snaps and the same age as a rookie as Rousseau is in his 4th season. Rousseau generated pressure on 8.6% of his snaps (63/735) and Verse generated pressure on 9.2% of his snaps (77/834). Rousseau had never even crossed the 600 snap plateau prior to this season, it's a volume thing in the way we rotate our defensive lineman, and he still put up similar or better volume stats in his age 21, 22 and 23 seasons. Rousseau showed exactly why the Bills should cut him a check, after earning his third-straight season surpassing an 80.0-plus overall grade. During the regular season, the 24-year-old pass-rusher generated 63 total pressures — tied for the 10th most among edge defenders. What's more impressive, Greg Rousseau who’s been playing at this level for three years (age 22-24), or Jared Verse (age 24) who has done it once. I’ll take the proven track record every time. You’re overhyping their guy and underselling your own.

If you agree with much of my post, you agree with the notion that Beane has drafted roughly 4 of the top 85 (Elite + Near-Elite) players in the National Football League since 2018. How many of the top 85 have Veach and Roseman drafted in that same timeframe? Jordan Mailata (Elite), Jalen Hurts (Near-Elite) and Jalen Carter (Near-Elite). Who else? DeVonta Smith? Trent McDuffie (Elite), Creed Humphrey (Elite), and Rashee Rice (Near-Elite). Who else? L'Jarious Sneed?

Jared Verse being included cracks me up. Try doing this for 3 years prior too lol

Gunner, come on. Those examples don’t really hold up for a draft-related critique. Chris Jones was drafted by John Dorsey, not Brett Veach. You reference the McDermott 2017 Draft, so might as well reference the Dorsey 2016 Draft FWIW Dorsey also drafted Mahomes in 2017 That means Veach has 1 guy (McDuffie) in 8 drafts too! AJ Brown was acquired via trade, and it cost a first-round pick plus a big contract. Mailata is a rare, once-in-a-decade kind of a seventh-round find. That said, credit should absolutely be given there. Let’s be real about how rare true impact players are and try to define them: Elite in my opinion is roughly the top 2% of NFL players - about 34 guys total. Near-elite in my opinion is roughly the top 5% - around 85 players. Very good in my opinion covers the top 15% - about 255 players. This is keeping in mind, teams don’t draft players evenly across these categories - there are only so many elite or near-elite talents available at any given time in the NFL. Josh Allen is clearly elite - one of those franchise-changing talents. Benford, Spencer Brown, and James Cook are already in the near-elite category. That’s huge, especially considering where they were picked - 185, 93, and 63, respectively. This is on par with - or even better than - his peers. It’s especially impressive considering he hasn’t had the luxury of picking in the top third of each round as often as elite teams like Detroit (4), Philadelphia (3), and San Francisco (3) have from 2018 to 2024. He’s hitting similar marks to teams like Baltimore and Kansas City, which speaks volumes. If we want to have a fair conversation about Beane’s draft, we need to compare him against realistic standards, not outliers or examples that don't apply to him. Plus, the 2022 draft haul is well on its way to matching the quality of the 2017 haul, which speaks volumes about the direction Beane’s drafting has taken. And that’s not even counting guys like Khalil Shakir, Terrel Bernard, Greg Rousseau, Taron Johnson, and Ed Oliver, who all fall into the very good category. He's right up there with Howie Roseman and Brett Veach.

Who are the elite guys across the NFL? Where do the list of elite guys typically get drafted?

November 3, 2013 – My first game at Rich/Highmark Stadium: the 8-0 Kansas City Chiefs vs. the 3-5 Buffalo Bills. Jeff Tuel got the start for Buffalo. The Bills had a chance to take a 17-3 lead early in the second half, but Tuel threw a 99-yard pick-six to Sean Smith. December 30, 2018 – Kyle Williams’ final game. He was my favorite player, and it was a special moment to see him take the field one last time. January 15, 2022 – Patriots vs. Bills in “The Perfect Game.” The game itself was unforgettable, but what stands out even more was the lead-up. It was my grandmother’s 80th birthday, and I went to dinner before heading to the stadium. She actually encouraged me to leave early so I wouldn’t miss the game. As I was walking up to the gates, the Bills scored their first touchdown - hearing that roar from outside was absolutely surreal. September 19, 2022 – Bills vs. Titans, Monday Night Football home opener. What made this one special wasn’t just the primetime atmosphere - it was my first game with my soon-to-be wife. We met out of state and instantly bonded over our love for the Bills. December 1, 2024 – Bills vs. 49ers. I watched Josh Allen throw a touchdown pass to himself - right in my corner of the end zone. It’s the most unbelievable play I’ve ever seen in person.

OMG WHY WOULDN'T WE DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!! Pittsburgh's diva receivers ALWAYS do well after they leave.