Mayfield is << Allen

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Dkollidas]

1 hour ago, jletha said:

He wasnt even a coordinator. He was a RB coach that was moved to interim OC when they fired Hue. He had never had real coordinator experience and never gone through an off season as a coordinator let a lone a HC. Baker and him seemed to have a good relationship which is why they made the move but I think its beginning to show that he isnt ready to be a HC.

Damn. I didn’t even notice that but you’re right. That’s CRAZY. 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Damn. I didn’t even notice that but you’re right. That’s CRAZY. 

Yea but not unheard of

 

Anthony Lynn was pretty much a RB coach his whole career, got promoted to OC for 1 season because Roman was fired and then made interm HC to finish the season

 

Became the Chargers coach the next season

[YoloinOhio]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea but not unheard of

 

Anthony Lynn was pretty much a RB coach his whole career, got promoted to OC for 1 season because Roman was fired and then made interm HC to finish the season

 

Became the Chargers coach the next season

ALynn was an Assistant HC though for years with Rex both in NJ and Buffalo. And we now know he did pretty much all his work. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

ALynn was an Assistant HC though for years with Rex both in NJ and Buffalo. And we now know he did pretty much all his work. 

2 years in NJ 2 in Buffalo, about 13 as a RB coach

 

And yes that's obvious now ?

[WideNine]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:39 AM, John from Riverside said:

I think it is important to remember that Josh Allen is not even a finished product

 

- Very raw coming into the league....despite that....a gamer

- He gets a little help this year....there are NO stars in that group of players Beane brought in....just solid NFL players and young guys that might develop into something....Brown is best suited as a 2.....Cole Beasely is a 3.....we do NOT have a legit number 1 receiver in this group

 

- The offensive line is giving better protection....but these guys are not like the bills SB offensive lines.....yet

 

Josh is looking pretty good right now....and I think he will look even better NEXT year as we continue to put pieces around him

 

Meanwhile....he looks equal to or has surpassed all of the QBs that were drafted ahead of him

 

We are in good shape

 

I watched Mayfield in all his bowl games and just was not overly impressed. He had a more pro-ready offense and lots of talent around him, but I did not think his arm was all that. He could read some defense and knew where he needed to go with the ball and had some ability to extend plays. I felt he would be a good fit in a pro offense with good weapons throwing shorter passes with anticipation like Brees. He is also a shorter QB like Brees. Was not sure how much more of a ceiling he had, but he does not lack confidence.

 

Allen on the other hand had all the tools, but no talent around him, an improvisational offense at Wyoming, and as raw a product as you could find, but I felt his ceiling in the right system could be much higher.

 

Neither are finished products and the jury is still out on both, but Allen has faced a lot of adversity early and more often than not has elevated his game and gotten better. He keeps it interesting with the throws you don't want him to make that go badly, then you watch him get tripped up by his running back, get up off the ground, run for his life, and side-arm the ball back against the grain on a rope thru a tiny window to his tight end with defensive linemen hanging onto him.

 

I am content with his progress to date, but the kid is going to give me a heart attack as I cannot recall ever seeing a QB quite like him. I have no idea where his ceiling is, but it is going to be a wild ride finding out.

 

 

[Simon]

This is going to sound stupid coming from an old dude sitting on his couch, but when I watch the Browns I get the distinct impression that Mayfield does not really have a thorough grasp of the Cleveburgh offense.

[buffalo2218]

On 9/23/2019 at 2:16 PM, VW82 said:

 

I think the sample size is too small to do that but if we want to ignore any/all prior context, I think they've both been underwhelming. Baker looks confused every time a defense shows man and flips to zone or vice versa. He's missing open guys. I don't think their offense suits him very well. Josh has made way too many mistakes this year vs. some of the worst defenses in the league. OTOH I thought he played well vs. Giants (also one of the worst defenses in the league). I like both guys' upside. 

I get what you're saying to a certain degree, but the dropoff Mayfield has had since last year, even 3 games in, is quite alarming. But I won't pin it all on him tho, Kitchens has a hand in this as well. But on the flip side of that, they gave him Beckham to throw the ball to, but getting Beckham alone could be detrimental to Mayfield's success given the antics the Giants had to put up with

[TheFunPolice]

Baker is arrogant and bought into his hype as the next big thing....

 

Allen is humble, hungry, and constantly being told he is no good by the media

 

That's the major difference I think.

[StHustle]

Mayfield tonight:

 

8-22

100 Yards

2 INTs

2 Fumbles

 

YIKES! 

[KD in CA]

2 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Mayfield tonight:

 

8-22

100 Yards

2 INTs

2 Fumbles

 

YIKES! 

 

.....and 3 points.

 

Hard to even imagine the meltdown here if Josh put up #s like that.

[Augie]

On 9/16/2019 at 11:59 PM, Protocal69 said:

Could it be that Mayfield is already has reached his peak. 

 

That can NOT be said about Josh. I have no idea what his peak is, nor do I know if or when he can get there. But the potential is amazing! 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Mayfield tonight:

 

8-22

100 Yards

2 INTs

2 Fumbles

 

YIKES! 

So last week was an anomaly not the Browns finally getting things figured out. Quick someone tell the Sports pundits before they all make themselves look stupid.

[Big Turk]

Kitchens is in way way over his head right now as head coach. Its not his fault, he was put in a position he wasn't ready for. He is not capable of leading this team properly as a head coach at this stage of his career...he was a career position coach who did well calling some plays for half a season...how anyone with any sense thouhht he would be prepared to take over a team as a head coach permanently is beyond me.

[Scott7975]

I'm sure Allen will drop two spots on the QB index this week, while Mayfield will gain 1 spot.

[njbuff]

It’s pretty clear that Allen is in a much more structured environment than Mayfield. 
 

Allen has a chance, but does Mayfield at this point?

 

Cleveland is DYING for some leadership. Buffalo has plenty of it.

 

We shall see moving forward. ?

[John from Riverside]

Lol to hear ppl talk of the roster difference at the beginning of the season

 

josh Allen is just better

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Isn’t Big Dingus the one constantly trashing Allen while loving on Mayfield?  Conspicuously quiet tonight!

[Alphadawg7]

On draft night, my QB board was in this order:

1. Baker
2. Allen
3. Darnold
4. Lamar
5. Rosen (actually liked Mason better, but this is based on the consensus top 5 that were expected to go first).  

So I was not surprised at all when Baker had a strong rookie year.  I also knew he wasn't a finished product yet and this season was no lock to be as great as some expected.  

 

However, I am surprised his play has fallen off this much.  He's really not playing well right now despite having a lot of weapons around him.  I wonder how much of it is the new coaching staff.  Not trying to make excuses for him, he's really taken a step back out there IMO and he gets to own what he is doing poorly.  

 

But it makes you wonder how safe the new staff is given how disappointing the offense has been despite adding more talent like OBJ.  There is a reason people say NFL stands for Not For Long.  This team was expected to compete for a division title and SB this year...if they keep looking like this, wonder if the next coaching changes could be coming in Cle.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Dr.Sack]

It’s clear Mayfield’s ceiling is much lower than Allen’s. Allen has all the tools to be a good QB. Mayfield has talent but nights like this make you wonder. 

[BillsfaninSB]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This team was expected to compete for a division title and SB this year...if they keep looking like this, wonder if the next coaching changes could be coming in Cle.

Luckily for them they are in the AFC north so they are very much still in it. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Luckily for them they are in the AFC north so they are very much still in it. 

 

True, good point.  But if they keep playing like this they may not be after too much longer.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

29 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Isn’t Big Dingus the one constantly trashing Allen while loving on Mayfield?  Conspicuously quiet tonight!

Cleveland Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	SACKS	QBR	RTG
Baker Mayfield	8/22	100	4.5	0	2	4-42	1.4	13.4

[BigBobby]

It is funny. On here, Facebook, TV, etc. people make excuses for Baker. It's his OL's fault, his HC's fault, his diva WR's fault and Baker will come around - he's just a young struggling QB.

 

Meanwhile, Allen is 4-1. The only team he has lost to in his last 8 games is being predicted to go 16-0 and just won another Super Bowl. Yet, all people can talk about with Allen is his bad plays. We dissect every single throw. We talk for a week about when he missed a wide open Zay who is running slower than Kelvin.

 

Why do people always criticize Allen so much and make excuses for Baker? Baker's stats suck. The Browns are a trainwreck - and by the way, they were said to be one of the most talented in the NFL before the season and now they are hurting Baker's development??? Or maybe HE is hurting them!

 

Not to mention, Allen plays with more heart than anyone I can remember seeing and Baker spends more time worrying about how to get Rex with a good zinger than getting his team on the right track. His attitude is even worse than his horrendous play.

[Aussie Joe]

54 minutes ago, BigBobby said:

 

Why do people always criticize Allen so much and make excuses for Baker?

 

I agree that it’s frustrating, but if you think the Bills got the better deal with Allen, then who cares?

 

I was looking at the Browns Watercooler forum tonight, and they are starting threads already that Allen is better, so it probably won’t take long for the opinion to become mainstream..

[cage]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm sure Allen will drop two spots on the QB index this week, while Mayfield will gain 1 spot.

 

Truth,... with that one INT being mentioned over and over again

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

It’s clear Mayfield’s ceiling is much lower than Allen’s. Allen has all the tools to be a good QB. Mayfield has talent but nights like this make you wonder. 

 

Elite

 

Can he live up to them, hard to say, i think he will be a Russell Wilson type , great but not elite but that will be good enough to win Superbowls.

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Maker playfield lol

[BananaB]

I’m waiting for Baker to have a Ryan Leaf like meltdown.... I don’t think he is use to struggling. 
 

 

[cage]

24 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I’m waiting for Baker to have a Ryan Leaf like meltdown.... I don’t think he is use to struggling. 
 

 

 

I checked out his post-game press conference and to his credit he handled it well.  I was half-expecting him to be in meltdown mode as well

[CSBill]

Is it time to pull his commercials???

[JESSEFEFFER]

Might be good evidence for the importance of team culture to the development of young players.  Those who think talent is the only thing that matters and sneer at the culture talk can't rationalize the Browns.

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

On draft night, but QB board was in order:

1. Baker
2. Allen
3. Darnold
4. Lamar
5. Rosen (actually liked Mason better, but this is based on the consensus top 5 that were expected to go first).  

So I was not surprised at all when Baker had a strong rookie year.  I also knew he wasn't a finished product yet and this season was no lock to be as great as some expected.  

 

However, I am surprised his play has fallen off this much.  He's really not playing well right now despite having a lot of weapons around him.  I wonder how much of it is the new coaching staff.  Not trying to make excuses for him, he's really taken a step back out there IMO and he gets to own what he is doing poorly.  

 

But it makes you wonder how safe the new staff is given how disappointing the offense has been despite adding more talent like OBJ.  There is a reason people say NFL stands for Not For Long.  This team was expected to compete for a division title and SB this year...if they keep looking like this, wonder if the next coaching changes could be coming in Cle.

 

 

I think the staff is in way over as over their own heads, but after they struggle in the next 2 games Seahawks/Pats - they have a bunch of games the rest of the season they should be in.

 

I unfortunately think they will still be competing with Baltimore for the division title come the last 2 weeks and I think that will keep the coaching staff safe - even if they should make a change.  

 

A bad division will will end up masking a lot of issues later and will actually hurt the Browns long term as they won’t make the needed changes.

 

JMO

[eball]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Elite

 

Can he live up to them, hard to say, i think he will be a Russell Wilson type , great but not elite but that will be good enough to win Superbowls.

 

 

 

 

Umm, Russell Wilson is elite.  It's a crime he isn't mentioned right along with Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, etc., when folks are talking about the best QBs in the game.  If Russell continues to play at this level he's a first ballot HOFer.

[CommonCents]

On 9/16/2019 at 11:52 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Yes. Besides the bravado and antics the dude TWICE WALKED ON at D1 programs and won starting jobs

 

You can say whatever u want about Baker and he may have regressed a little but his work ethic shouldn't be questioned

 

He obviously busts his butt in the film and weight room to get to where he is. Maybe he is losing it

He has a dad body at 24? Come on now. If him and Chase Daniels had a love child it would be the next Jay Cutler.

[4merper4mer]

Everyone has bad games and one of the picks should have been a TD but woof.

 

If I'm Cleveland I'm worried about Mayfield.  And the run defense doesn't exactly look good.  They got torn up last night and against the Titans.  That is sure a cause for concern.

[Billsfan1972]

5 hours ago, BigBobby said:

It is funny. On here, Facebook, TV, etc. people make excuses for Baker. It's his OL's fault, his HC's fault, his diva WR's fault and Baker will come around - he's just a young struggling QB.

 

Meanwhile, Allen is 4-1. The only team he has lost to in his last 8 games is being predicted to go 16-0 and just won another Super Bowl. Yet, all people can talk about with Allen is his bad plays. We dissect every single throw. We talk for a week about when he missed a wide open Zay who is running slower than Kelvin.

 

Why do people always criticize Allen so much and make excuses for Baker? Baker's stats suck. The Browns are a trainwreck - and by the way, they were said to be one of the most talented in the NFL before the season and now they are hurting Baker's development??? Or maybe HE is hurting them!

 

Not to mention, Allen plays with more heart than anyone I can remember seeing and Baker spends more time worrying about how to get Rex with a good zinger than getting his team on the right track. His attitude is even worse than his horrendous play.

Can you imagine how many pages there'd be on here about Allen if he put up a stinker like that? 

 

Heck after NE the Barkley talk as the better option was real here.

 

 

[Sundancer]

What I like the most about Josh is progression. There will be bad games (Pats) but he's doing things this year he wasn't last year. Accuracy way up, throwing the ball away, hero ball slowing down (obviously not gone), taking sacks instead of launching impossible passes...and all the things we know remain: arm strength, leadership, 4th quarter/clutch, shakes off the bad plays, teammates love him. 

 

The biggest issue right now is what he does in broken plays. He's as likely to make a SportsCenter highlight as throw a cringeworthy INT. But even that looks better to me. 

 

Josh looks like a guy developing a floor like Jake Plummer (4th quarter stud, incredibly fun to watch, loses games with bad INTs sometimes) and an upside at Favre. They are still filling in some pieces around him (like a big body target WR, a RT, and a more reliable TE) but it's coming together and a lot of that is his ability to make people better. 

 

The fact that he was drafted as a 2-3 year project and he just finished his 16th game to me puts him right on track. 

 

Mayfield on the other hand may be what his negatives were coming out of college. Maxed out his potential. Teams may figure him out. The GM there did the exact wrong thing in investing a ton of $$ in a skill position lunatic and not spending on the line. The anti-Patriots strategy. But the Browns gonna Browns.

 

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Can you imagine how many pages there'd be on here about Allen if he put up a stinker like that? 

 

Heck after NE the Barkley talk as the better option was real here.

 

 

 

Niners D is one of the better ones in the NFL, but Mayfield looks bad by any measure. 

 

His commercials are funny though. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Sundancer

[Billsfan1972]

31 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

What I like the most about Josh is progression. There will be bad games (Pats) but he's doing things this year he wasn't last year. Accuracy way up, throwing the ball away, hero ball slowing down (obviously not gone), taking sacks instead of launching impossible passes...and all the things we know remain: arm strength, leadership, 4th quarter/clutch, shakes off the bad plays, teammates love him. 

 

The biggest issue right now is what he does in broken plays. He's as likely to make a SportsCenter highlight as throw a cringeworthy INT. But even that looks better to me. 

 

Josh looks like a guy developing a floor like Jake Plummer (4th quarter stud, incredibly fun to watch, loses games with bad INTs sometimes) and an upside at Favre. They are still filling in some pieces around him (like a big body target WR, a RT, and a more reliable TE) but it's coming together and a lot of that is his ability to make people better. 

 

The fact that he was drafted as a 2-3 year project and he just finished his 16th game to me puts him right on track. 

 

Mayfield on the other hand may be what his negatives were coming out of college. Maxed out his potential. Teams may figure him out. The GM there did the exact wrong thing in investing a ton of $$ in a skill position lunatic and not spending on the line. The anti-Patriots strategy. But the Browns gonna Browns.

 

 

Niners D is one of the better ones in the NFL, but Mayfield looks bad by any measure. 

 

His commercials are funny though. 

And so is NE's........   Frankly NE's is much better......

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Elite

 

Can he live up to them, hard to say, i think he will be a Russell Wilson type , great but not elite but that will be good enough to win Superbowls.

 

 

 

You sure about that?  Wilson is the NFL MVP right now. Dude is playing out of his mind...12 TDs 0 INT's completing over 73% of his passes for a ridiculous QB rating of 126.3

Edited October 8, 2019 by matter2003