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Mayfield is << Allen

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6 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

So one game and you've made ya mind up? What would you say if a Cleveland fan had only watched Josh Allen's game against Green Bay last year or only saw quarters 2 and 3 of the Jest game? 

 

We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore.  That's not a relevant comparison

 

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2 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

I agree.  I did not see much of his play against Tennessee, but I did notice last night that the Jets seemed to be making a concerted effort to get their arms up in front of him.  Even on roll outs, they would stay in front of him and try and deflect his throws.  I wonder if that is a strategy against him....and I wonder if height might start to be a factor.

 

This.   Baker is accurate on throws where he has a clean pocket or when he rolls out and has clear vision.  Brees is able to kill it with his elongated drop-backs and precision up/down accuracy, but as others have pointed out, that's the exception to the rule with short QB's. 

 

With them neglecting their OL, it will be interesting to see if more teams flood the passing lanes with hands up pass rush/contain.  Then, how does Baker adjust.

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7 minutes ago, cage said:

 

We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore.  That's not a relevant comparison

 

You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet?

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2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet?

 

For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play.  I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft.  I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield.  I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills.  

 

However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons.  However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark.

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6 minutes ago, cage said:

 

For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play.  I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft.  I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield.  I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills.  

 

However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons.  However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark.

A few others commented on this... but... Gregg Williams. His defenses generally do well against young QBs. Plus, he had a full year to learn Mayfield’s limitations and all of Kitchens tendencies. We can say what we want about Greggo, but he’s likely had this game circled on the calendar since the schedule was released. 

 

As for who the best QBs from the class are. I’m waiting till after year three to make a judgement. I love Allen. We’ll see if the Jackson/Roman offense gets figured out. Darnold is cuckolded by Gase. I can’t foresee Mayfield being a full bust. Rosen though.... I think Rosen will be the big bust unless something changes dramatically. 

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I think the biggest problem is that Kitchens is not running the offense very closely.  I know supposedly he is, so my opinion alone but there is very little intelligence to their playcalling, most of the time they are looking for the long ball, not complementing the run game with the pass game.  Totally different than last year.  The communication and adjustments on their O-line was clearly lacking game 1 and was a bit better last night so that helps, but I feel like they have a very different and less intelligent offensive game plan this year.

 

Possibly they gave more autonomy to Baker and he's not ready?  I don't know but offensive strategy noticeably different this year.

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4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

A lot of homerism here.  Mayfield has shown it in college and last year as a rookie, he works hard, has a great arm, can make plays on the run, generally makes good decisions with the ball and WINS.   The media got behind him and the Browns, now we have a bunch of people trying to poke holes in him and say Allen is better.

 

Last year we heard from everyone that Allen's line was the issue, but we're willing to ignore the issues Cleveland is having now when looking at Mayfield.

 

We heard Josh has "it" and finds a way to win, no matter how ugly, what was the outcome of the game people are freaking out over?

 

Every week the excuses come in for Josh missing guys that are open. Brown was wide open, for a td, but who cares? We scored on that drive anyway.  Mayfield misses OBJ once and now he is innacurate.

 

The offense sputters here and they are still needing time to "gel", forget that for Cleveland.

 

C'mon guys, judge with the same standards and quit trying to feel like your qb is clearly better because you are tired of hearing about Cleveland.  Most of you sound like jealous school girls defending your boyfriend.  As it stands, Allen has had a mediocre game that nobody wants to talk about because it was a win and a solid game.  He made improvement from last year, thus far.  He was still picked 7th overall, its not like he should be getting a pass for not playing well, the team invested a FORTUNE to draft him, he better be good.  Mayfield had a far superior rookie season and started off this year with a pretty mediocre game one, against a team that didn't suck so much they allowed him to recover.  Then had an average game, where he shockingly beat the ***** out of the same team Allen barely scraped by in his mediocre game.  

 

Let's breath a second and realize they are both young, both have new weapons and both were high draft picks with lofty expectations.  Both are going to wow you at times and both are going to suck at times.   It's nice that Allen has picked things up and is progressing.  Mayfield will be fine too.

 

Mayfield Blows....

 

Image result for Kramer running

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11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes. Besides the bravado and antics the dude TWICE WALKED ON at D1 programs and won starting jobs

 

You can say whatever u want about Baker and he may have regressed a little but his work ethic shouldn't be questioned

 

He obviously busts his butt in the film and weight room to get to where he is. Maybe he is losing it

I think Baker may be prideful and arrogant in many respects and it’s prevented him from growing. Guy had a great rookie season and he may have rested on his laurels a little bit.

 

Another thing is he may have too much on his plate. I mean they traded for OBJ and fans along with the national media are expecting the Greatest Show On Turf. May be a bit too much, too fast.

 

I do think in the end he’ll figure it out, but at this point I’d much rather have Josh Allen under center.

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11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I had Mayfield 4th but in all honesty I had Allen and Rosen as top 3 guys.  Browns changed the history of 5 teams or more by taking Mayfield instead of Darnold.  If Browns take Darnold like many predicted, Allen probably goes 3rd to the Jets and then it is a trade war at 4 to get Rosen.  

So glad it turned out the way that it did. I truly believe, in 15-20 years, when their careers have all ended, Josh Allen will have been the best of the group. 

 

And I don't think it's wishful thinking.

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11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes. Besides the bravado and antics the dude TWICE WALKED ON at D1 programs and won starting jobs

 

You can say whatever u want about Baker and he may have regressed a little but his work ethic shouldn't be questioned

 

He obviously busts his butt in the film and weight room to get to where he is. Maybe he is losing it

NFL is different. Also, I have not followed his off season routine (since IDGAF), except for seeing him shotgun beers at an Indians game. I just don't see him, Landry & OBJ taking time to study their offensive playbooks.

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3 hours ago, McBean said:

It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen.

 

It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy.

 

Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great!

 

Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!”

 

I’m sick of the BS.

I get it, but I really like being under the radar this season. I would rather have Allen and Co. be focused on improving their game every week and not focusing on media hype and spotlight. We still have so much room for growth and actual growth that has to happen, I like not being in the limelight so we can focus on the important things right now...

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I likely missed it somewhere, but do any of you guys have BMs pass completion percentage numbers from the first two games? Would be kinda interesting to compare with the other 2nd year guys.

 

Go Bills!!!

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12 hours ago, cage said:

I watched most of the Browns/Jets game tonight and this is the first time I saw Baker Mayfield outside of highlight clips.  Color me unimpressed.  I'll have to watch a bit more of him, but based on tonights game, I would consider Josh Allen the better QB, hands down.  

 

-- Less than 50% accuracy

-- Nearly got his TE killed.  I can imagine how many times we'd see that clip and the commentary if Allen made a throw like that

-- Consistently high and off target, with the exception of two long passes to OBJ

-- Poor decision making

-- Erratic while rolling right trying to evade pressure.  Allen is often at his best on those types of throws 

 

Allen would be crucified for having a game like Mayfield had tonight.

 

 

Agreed.

 

And i believe some fellows in here thought i was  crazy to have Allen above Mayfield :flirt:

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

What would happen to the city of Cleveland if Mayfield is just average?  He becomes just at Matt Hasselbeck level?

There is already a huge mural of him downtown!

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13 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

NFL is different. Also, I have not followed his off season routine (since IDGAF), except for seeing him shotgun beers at an Indians game. I just don't see him, Landry & OBJ taking time to study their offensive playbooks.

I can't speak to Landry and OBJ but when Mayfield had his pro-day at OU what stood out was his preparation to detail.  Dorsey talked about how all the receivers were there early and fully ready to go on the start time.  Baker orchestrated and controlled the entire workout, which rightfully impressed Dorsey.  Unless Mayfield has fallen off a cliff from last year, he knows the playbook.  But he's looked mostly pedestrian to poor this year and it's difficult to understand right now.  The guy spread the ball around and made great decisions last year.

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12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Does he really seem like the type of player to study & watch tape?

He doesn't have time to do so what with mowing the field and trying to figure out the circuit breakers.

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Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

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1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

 

If Gregggggggo confused him, just imagine what Wade Phillips will do to him this week.  

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Good skills.  I think he's a pretty shytty leader.  He won't get as much out of his team that Josh and Sam will.

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13 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

I can't speak to Landry and OBJ but when Mayfield had his pro-day at OU what stood out was his preparation to detail.  Dorsey talked about how all the receivers were there early and fully ready to go on the start time.  Baker orchestrated and controlled the entire workout, which rightfully impressed Dorsey.  Unless Mayfield has fallen off a cliff from last year, he knows the playbook.  But he's looked mostly pedestrian to poor this year and it's difficult to understand right now.  The guy spread the ball around and made great decisions last year.

Last year, yes he did look good. I also don't want this to sound like I'm calling him out and I don't follow CLE that much on twitter, but I really didn't see or hear much about his offseason and working on his craft in the NFL. I have seen in here a lot talking about college, that is fine and dandy, but this is the big leagues now...

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4 hours ago, aristocrat said:

baker was really inaccurate last night and not the guy i saw play last year. 

People are aware that he's playing hurt, right? He was very accurate in game one until he injured his throwing hand, after which his accuracy declined. He is definitely not back to 100 percent yet. 

7 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

Again, his throwing hand is not 100 percent. He was photographed with a brace on his hand a few days before the game. It clearly is affecting him.

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3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Why is it that anything positive about Allen has to be qualified with the level of competition he has faced? I don't really hear that very much when we are discussing other QBs...

Ive said the same thing concerning NE going undefeated.  Ive said the same thing concerning Lamar Jacksons start.  I appreciate the positivety toward Allen as I appreciate everybody finally arriving to the party.

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