Cut McCoy, Sign Bell (edited from McCoy out 6.4M cap)

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

1 hour ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

I concur, love to get Ziggy Ansahu and then a center and another olinemen like Darryl Williams 

 

Ansah would be nice, I'd prefer Trey Flowers myself but wouldn't be upset with either. Williams seems like he'd be a decent fit here.

[RyanC883]

I'd trade Shady.  Avoid the dead cap issue.  Some team will take him, likely for a 3rd or 4th.  He could complement Mack well in Indy.  

3 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I will say this, even though our line is terrible and they likely need three moves I still think it is actually overrated.

 

no where to run for RBs and on passing plays, come on...a pocket is a pocket, Allen not getting sacked 3 seconds after the ball is snapped does not a pocket make.

 

a number of times last night I saw Big Ben not have to move six inches left or right in his pocket due to his pocket just plain not collapsing.

 

Please note I am not excusing our RB play of late, but damn our line stinks.

 

Our O-line and RB's have issues.  The only RB who could gain yards appeared to be Ivory due to his running style.  But even in space when catching a ball, McCoy looks slower than normal. 

 

We need to trade Shady and Clay (if possible on the latter), or cut and use that money for Coleman, get Paradis at Center.  Eifert and James at TE. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I'd trade Shady.  Avoid the dead cap issue.  Some team will take him, likely for a 3rd or 4th.  He could complement Mack well in Indy.  

 

Our O-line and RB's have issues.  The only RB who could gain yards appeared to be Ivory due to his running style.  But even in space when catching a ball, McCoy looks slower than normal. 

 

We need to trade Shady and Clay (if possible on the latter), or cut and use that money for Coleman, get Paradis at Center.  Eifert and James at TE. 

 

 

Hey, Ry, I just over on the other thread (should have posted here) that Spotrac has us virtually at $100 million in cap space ($99,686,374 to be exact) if we let Clay and Shady go.

 

Not 100% sold on moving both considering money isn't a factor, we have so much space, and I want like to see what a better line does...but still...it's more than just a thought.

[dayman]

Wait for the press to calm down and sign K. Hunt for pennies on the dollar. 

[peterpan]

14 hours ago, Nester said:

If the NFL has tought is anything this year is that you do not need to spend big on RBs for running success.  

 

O line and young RBs imo

Been that way since LD left SD. 

 

Some are slow to learn it seems. 

[nucci]

15 hours ago, billspro said:

 

I would be happy with Coleman and a third round rookie.

why 3rd round...why not 2nd or 4th...maybe 5th...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, Swill Merchant said:

Someone may pay Bell $15+m/season but that doesn't make him worth it. He's a system guy. Everyone they plug in puts up numbers. Hard pass.

 

...already said he wants to play for the Colts, knowing Irsay is crazy enough to shell out that kind of loot....just catch him in a "full buzz moment".............

[ColoradoBills]

Clay will be let go in the next couple of weeks.

 

McCoy is a different story.  Whether or not he is release or traded before or after 1 June 2019 makes no money difference.

There is no need to rush to a decision about Shady from the Bills perspective.

 

NOW, from Shady's perspective it's a whole different story.

If he and his agent feel there is a chance of him being released AFTER the FA happens he is in a tougher position.

Beane may ask McCoy and his agent to test the waters as to see if they can find a trade partner to work with.

Remember the new team can also rework his contract.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

I am wondering what a guy like Kieth Ford looks like if he isnt carrying 2 defenders on this back when it gets to the line of scrimage

[Gunsgoodtime]

7 hours ago, dayman said:

Wait for the press to calm down and sign K. Hunt for pennies on the dollar. 

I'm good with this

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I'd trade Shady.  Avoid the dead cap issue.  Some team will take him, likely for a 3rd or 4th.  He could complement Mack well in Indy.  

 

Our O-line and RB's have issues.  The only RB who could gain yards appeared to be Ivory due to his running style.  But even in space when catching a ball, McCoy looks slower than normal. 

 

We need to trade Shady and Clay (if possible on the latter), or cut and use that money for Coleman, get Paradis at Center.  Eifert and James at TE. 

 

The dead money for McCoy and Clay would be the same regardless of whether they are cut or traded. $2.625M for Shady and $4.5M for Clay.  Shady would cost an extra $6.425M if he plays for us and Clay an extra $4.5M.  I’ve got no problem with saving nearly $11M by getting rid of them, but I’d like to see us get something in trade for at least one of them. It’s not that likely as I don’t see teams willing to part with picks for either, but you never know. 

[CEN-CAL17]

I think Shady could be an amazing 3rd down back.... but at that price is the question.

[RocCityRoller]

11 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

I concur, love to get Ziggy Ansahu and then a center and another olinemen like Darryl Williams 

 

ziggy will be 30, no thanks

[JerseyBills]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:41 PM, billspro said:

This is the worst running game I have seen since I became a Bills fan. I can’t even remember the last time a RB ran for more than 6 yards for a first down. That should happen multiple times per game. The running game has put so much pressure on Allen. I would like a vet and a rookie brought in next year along with a new oline. We have so many needs on offence, hopefully Beane has some magic in him.

Yeah well in defense of the coaches , OL and RB , we lost our top two ,pro bowl OL to unexpected situations and with QB being a priority , we had to roll the dice and use a bunch of draft capital and put OL to the side til this off season . 

Good OL play makes the offense look good. Great OL play can make average players look great. We do need alot of pieces on O but we got the franchise QB and now it all starts up front. 

[Nester]

I don’t think we will hit the cap next year so no real down side to keeping him for the final year. 

 

Change his roll to mostly short yard receiver, not like we have a TE for that roll anyway.

 

find some young RBs that can pound that ball for 3 years then move on when thier bodies are broken.

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

I think Shady could be an amazing 3rd down back.... but at that price is the question.

 

What we don’t know is if Shady is willing to redo the contract, incentive laden and accept a reduced role. He’s on pace for the HOF. Staying with the Bills to the end likely helps induction. Multiple teams at the end of great careers seems to hinder a players chances to get it.

[Aussie Joe]

Just draft a RB on Day 3...

 

They have seven picks to spend that day and there are other needs to address on Days 1-2..

[CEN-CAL17]

8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Just draft a RB on Day 3...

 

They have seven picks to spend that day and there are other needs to address on Days 1-2..

Josh Jacobs RB Alabama, Should be familiar with Dabolls offense. Good size, tough runner. 

LJ Scott is another. Those are my 2 RBs I like.

[Rc2catch]

I might be in the minority here but I want to keep clay and shady next season. 

But maybe I’m also misinformed and too lazy to look up the details. 

Isn’t next season the last year of both of their contracts? 

We aren’t hurting for the money why cut them? 

We obviously don’t want them to be starters anymore that part I get. 

But why create more holes you don’t have to? 

Let them play out their final years of their contract and draft/sign replacements who can win the jobs. 

The roster spot isn’t an issue until roughly next August what can it hurt? 

For the money they are making and the terrible seasons they’ve had it’s not like they will holdout or demand to be cut. Neither is getting that salary on the open market. 

And they are both in contract years. I have never seen a player in the last year of a contract give minimum effort (until KB this year) 

I see a team like Cleveland who signed Hyde and had Duke Johnson yet drafted Chubb. 

Hyde started out the year, Chubb lit it up and won the job and Cleveland fleeced the jags for a draft pick. That would be my mindset for next season. If McCoy has anything left in the tank he will impress and either be an elite level back, or traded for a pick. 

Worst case he’s out of gas and rides the bench and a younger guy takes his job. 

I just see no reason to get rid of them until replacements are in place. It’s not our money. Lol we aren’t saving anything and the team will be hard pressed to spend ALL the money as it stands right now 

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I might be in the minority here but I want to keep clay and shady next season. 

But maybe I’m also misinformed and too lazy to look up the details. 

Isn’t next season the last year of both of their contracts? 

We aren’t hurting for the money why cut them? 

We obviously don’t want them to be starters anymore that part I get. 

But why create more holes you don’t have to? 

Let them play out their final years of their contract and draft/sign replacements who can win the jobs. 

The roster spot isn’t an issue until roughly next August what can it hurt? 

For the money they are making and the terrible seasons they’ve had it’s not like they will holdout or demand to be cut. Neither is getting that salary on the open market. 

And they are both in contract years. I have never seen a player in the last year of a contract give minimum effort (until KB this year) 

I see a team like Cleveland who signed Hyde and had Duke Johnson yet drafted Chubb. 

Hyde started out the year, Chubb lit it up and won the job and Cleveland fleeced the jags for a draft pick. That would be my mindset for next season. If McCoy has anything left in the tank he will impress and either be an elite level back, or traded for a pick. 

Worst case he’s out of gas and rides the bench and a younger guy takes his job. 

I just see no reason to get rid of them until replacements are in place. It’s not our money. Lol we aren’t saving anything and the team will be hard pressed to spend ALL the money as it stands right now 

I think if you improve the line, Shady still has value, especially if you don't ask him to be the main back. At minimum, I don't see why he couldn't be a good 3rd down back who can catch out of the backfield, etc. No rb would have success behind our current oline. Clay looks beat up and played out to me. TE ought to be a reliable safety valve for a young qb, so I hope draft and free agency is used to upgrade the position.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:09 PM, Chicharito said:

I doesn’t matter who the running back is if you don’t have guys upfront that can block.

 

It actually does matter.

 

The reason that Ivory was consistently more effective than McCoy especially earlier in the season is that McCoy has always been a "skills" runner - he relies on the OL to spring him to the 2nd level then makes people miss, to break off his big runs.  McCoy is next to useless if he doesn't have good and effective blocking.  As the season goes on, he's become more willing to try to dive in and make something happen, but he's also gotten dinged enough I think, that he lost a couple steps once he made it to the open field.

 

Ivory, OTOH, would just pound the rock - dive into the spot where the hole was supposed to be and churn his legs to take people with him.  He averages 3.4 ypa.

3.4 ypa doesn't sound that great, but it moves the chains, people.

 

So yeah, if you want a run game without investing in quality run blocking, both personnel and coaching and scheme, you need to acquire 2-3 Ivory type guys and use them in rotation.

Paradoxically, if you do have guys up front that can block and an effective passing game, almost any well-coached RB can generate some run game - see "Patriots***, NE"

 

 

[Simon Says]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:39 PM, NewDayBills said:

I want Tevin Coleman and TJ Yeldon in FA, let them share the load. Probably cost 3-4 million less than we're paying now. A two back system is the way to go.

You could get BOTH of these guys for less than what Bell would cost, so I like that. I don't see Beane investing that much in a RB; too risky. Already have Ivory, Ford and Murphy, and can easily draft one and pay him rookie money.

[Gugny]

Any GM who pays Bell what he's looking for should be fired before the ink on the contract is dry.

 

Invest in the line and any decent running back will put up great numbers.

[BananaB]

Spend some money on an Oline and you won’t need to spend much on a RB. 

[wppete]

How about spending all that money on a decent O-Line????

 

I don’t get these people that want to spend money on a RB with the worst O-Line in the NFl. You can’t run the ball if you can’t block. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, wppete said:

How about spending all that money on a decent O-Line????

 

I don’t get these people that want to spend money on a RB with the worst O-Line in the NFl. You can’t run the ball if you can’t block. 

They certainly have to address the OL but they CAN do both. The thing about Bell is he would be the best receiver and runner on this team. I’m not opposed to him at all (although I think he goes to Indy). 

[Boatdrinks]

Bell patiently follows his blockers before accelerating. In Buffalo, that would mean getting hit behind the LOS most of the time. No thanks. LeVeon will be overpriced wherever he goes, but with the Bills Oline it’s hard to envision a bigger waste of cap $$ than Bell. 

[dpberr]

Players can have down years.

[DuckyBoys]

They fix the O line and run game will be just fine.  Bell scares the crap out of me  #1 is he really a special back?  Steelers run game didn't see a great drop off  #2 he gets that big pay day is he check out? 

[Jay_Fixit]

Gotta shore up that o-line. Draft a day 2/3 RB.

 

[dezertbill]

I really like Coleman.  He is lightening quick out of the backfield. I'd take him over Yeldon.  I don't think we need both.

 

Keeping in mind we still have Ivory and Murphy next year, I'm all for signing Coleman and cutting Shady.  Then draft a RB in the 3-4 rounds.  You can find a quality starting back in those rounds.  

 

Coleman

Murphy

Ivory

Rookie

 

Between giving Burns a shot, along with a UDFA and a street FA to compete, we'll be set.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:02 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Shady and Clay are gone. You can find Kamara type guys all over the draft.

 

I get what you're saying, but no.  Kamara guys are NOT all over the draft.

[Charlottebillsfan2]

I basically posted this in another message about Shady and the RB position. 

 

My thoughts are the Bills should move on from Shady and no way would I spend that money on Bell. Personally I would rather build a great o line and plug in a rookie RB every couple of years VIA draft. I would rather spend the money in other places. I just think the RB is a position you can fill any year in the draft if you have a solid line. 

 

Top 10 running backs based on yards in the NFL and time in the NFL. 

1 Elliott - 3rd season 

2 - Gurley - 4th season 

3 - Barkley - 1st season 

4 - McCaffrey - 2nd season 

5 - Joe mixon - 2nd season 

6- Peterson - 13th season 

7- Lindsay - 1st season 

8- Carson - 2nd season 

9- Chubb - 1st season 

10 - Henry - 3rd season 

 

[NewEra]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:47 AM, NewDayBills said:

I'm not so sure about that, maybe he has good hands but he's too slow at this point to make an impact as a receiver. Perhaps I'm projecting my desires on what I think should happen instead of what in all actuality will happen, I don't know.

Because he is making elite RB money when he is barely a #2 if you can even call him that. Either way, he is either not a fit in this offense or he will be out of the league in 2 years, it's hard to say. Regardless, it's time to move on. We can sign two solid RBs with that salary.

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

[billsfan_34]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:54 AM, Aussie Joe said:

Just draft a RB on Day 3...

 

They have seven picks to spend that day and there are other needs to address on Days 1-2..

Exactly or day 2, rd 3 if a guy you really like is there. 

[Victory Formation]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

I actually liked the idea of Bell initially until I realized that there's some really decent options in FA for much cheaper. Why put ourselves in that position again? Bell would be Shady all over again. Pay him 15m aav just to hit a wall in 3 years when he's 30 and we're on the hook for it with no way out. With a 2 back system you can swap players out, if someone gets injured you plug in the next guy with no drop off. Yes, I'm a moron for wanting Bell. Definitely not one of my better takes. Spend that money on a G or C.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It actually does matter.

 

The reason that Ivory was consistently more effective than McCoy especially earlier in the season is that McCoy has always been a "skills" runner - he relies on the OL to spring him to the 2nd level then makes people miss, to break off his big runs.  McCoy is next to useless if he doesn't have good and effective blocking.  As the season goes on, he's become more willing to try to dive in and make something happen, but he's also gotten dinged enough I think, that he lost a couple steps once he made it to the open field.

 

Ivory, OTOH, would just pound the rock - dive into the spot where the hole was supposed to be and churn his legs to take people with him.  He averages 3.4 ypa.

3.4 ypa doesn't sound that great, but it moves the chains, people.

 

So yeah, if you want a run game without investing in quality run blocking, both personnel and coaching and scheme, you need to acquire 2-3 Ivory type guys and use them in rotation.

Paradoxically, if you do have guys up front that can block and an effective passing game, almost any well-coached RB can generate some run game - see "Patriots***, NE"

 

 

Nice to see some wisdom on this board- we can shore up the line in the offseason but it may not be a finished product- lets get a smash it in between the tackles Natron Means/Travis Henry kind of back 3rd-5th round. Heck, lets get 2 of them ?

[Doc Brown]

I'd be fine with cutting McCoy and signing Ajayi to a one year "prove it" deal since we do have a lot of cap space.  I really don't want to draft a RB in the first three or four rounds as O-line and pass catchers need a major upgrade.

[Simon Says]

21 hours ago, NewEra said:

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio; re: Castillo. Ranking of O-line coaches, taking into consideration the team's offensive, scheme, talent & experience level of the linemen, etc. I think Castillo was ranked 13th. He was hindered by the lack of talent & experience he had to work with (including a rookie QB and poor receiving group). Cant really blame pre-snap penalties on the coach, for example

[formerlyofCtown]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:33 PM, SCBills said:

Yes to cutting Shady. 

 

No to giving stupid money to another RB. 

I would try to trade McCoy as opposed to  cutting him.  I still think we can get a fifth for him.  I believe I would give 15 a year to Bell but I think he turned down more than that from Pittsburgh.