Kirby Jackson

Lol, I didn’t say that his opinion was factual. I said that it is a fact that he ranked them 28th. It is. Thoughts on practice is Kincaid is the guy that has a chance to be a stud. It sounds like he was today. They need that. He can be a top 5 TE and is probably a top 10 TE today. It’s the WRs that I think aren’t very good. I hope that I’m wrong. One practice, in shorts, isn’t changing my thoughts on anything. Opinions are the same now as before. I’m not sure why you take issue, that a bunch of guys with spotty production/resume/pedigree are concerning? Why should we be optimistic? Aren’t those the elements that would lead someone to be optimistic?

Um, it is a fact that Warren Sharp ranked them 28th. That it his opinion. Both are true. His opinion is based on his analysis of data (like a scientist). My perspective and expectation is Super Bowl appearances. Their point differential and 40 straight games without a loss over 6 points supports that. I spend hundreds of hours a year and tens of thousands of dollars annually on this team. My commitment isn’t in question. I hold them to the standard that they should be held to. In 2017, I was thrilled with a playoff appearance. In 2023, I was not thrilled with another Divisional Round loss.

I keep using talent, pedigree and production. Justin Shorter was the number 3 WR recruit in the country.https://n.rivals.com/content/athletes/justin-shorter-17797?view=pv I’d put that in the pedigree category. His production in college would probably say that his talent was a little overrated. The production isn’t good. He would be 1 out of 3. Production trumps all. Objectively, would be the “not influenced by personal feelings” definition. Feel free to look it up. There is no bias in my analysis of this group. It is an emotionless opinion. When I discuss the Bills on this thread I try to provide OBJECTIVE analysis.

Oh, we all love how they finished the season. They have different players now. Joe Brady was elite as an OC when he had Burrow, Chase and Jefferson. He struggled with talent in Carolina. He did a good job last year with a different group. Which guy is he? Is he the guy from Carolina or the guy from LSU? As an aside, I’m a Brady fan. I was in Louisiana at that time. You can search this message board, 5 years ago, before 99% of the people here knew who he was, and see me advocating for him as OC (and even HC). I believe in Joe Brady. I don’t believe in the WRs.

Any scheme designed to have Josh Allen as a role player, fits right into what other teams want. The Bills playing to “run the ball and stop the run” is an opponent’s dream. This team, as currently constructed, needs to be the Josh Allen show. The Bills don’t have the pieces around him that other winning teams do. The top of the Bills roster is very weak comparatively. The starting 5 being “workable” isn’t impressive. You need a guy(s) at the top of the depth chart that teams fear!! They have a top 10 TE and 4 WRs that would be number 3’s in most offenses (no one higher than WR 4 in Houston or Chicago). The Bills have assembled a group of pass catchers, that one of the most respected, data-driven, football minds, ranked as the 28th best group. Why would anyone defend that? It’s okay to want them to succeed. That’s what we all want. Looking at it objectively though, it isn’t a good group compared to their peers. With Josh Allen, in his prime, that’s a mistake. I don’t think any reasonable person could argue that they are good enough there. At best, you hope that some of the lottery tickets are winners. At worst, you have a bunch of WRs that can’t get open and make plays. Josh Allen will need to be Superman to have this team competing for the playoffs. Thats a failure of roster management.

I think that the biggest divide in this thread is the “possibility” of this group performing well vs. the “likelihood” of them playing well. Someone earlier said that Peterman could outperform Mahomes. He certainly could. Justin Shorter could have 2,000 yards receiving. Those of us skeptical of the receiving room are looking at the likelihood. This group, on paper, is one of the worst in the league. Do I think that the Bills will have one of the worst passing attacks in the league? No. They have Josh Allen. The point is, if they end up with the 12th(ish) best passing attack, they would have been much higher with even an average room. My biggest issue is not surrounding Josh with elite talent. He is asked to elevate role players. The entire focus should be, give Allen everything to create an unstoppable offense and be good enough everywhere else. The Bills philosophy, in the Allen era, has been to allocate $ and elite draft picks to the defense and let Allen cover for their deficiencies. They’ve kind of made more of an effort over the last couple of drafts. Although when they desperately needed a WR they traded down twice and selected the 8th guy at the position. Despite where he was picked that doesn’t scream to me the Bills saying, “we need to get Josh more help.” This team lacks talent comparatively. Look at all of the top 50 or top 100 player lists. See how many Bills players are on their vs. other top teams. Could Andy Isabella or KJ Hamler end up on their next year? Sure. Is it likely? Of course not. That’s the issue. Those of us holding the Bills to a higher standard are in “wait and see” mode like the rest of you. We just aren’t expecting things that are highly unlikely to happen. We wanted, and still want, the Bills to add more weapons that are LIKELY to contribute as opposed to COULD contribute.

Thank you for leaning in. I believe the ceiling to be significantly lower than you do. It’s a bunch of number 3’s and a lottery ticket that never has gotten separation. If Coleman is St. Brown or AJ Brown, that changes things. If he’s a Gabe replacement, they are significantly worse than last year. I’m especially down on Claypool as I have a close friend who is a scout at the Bears. He called him a “cancer” and said, “he was one of the worst guys that he has seen in a locker room.” This friend played 7 years in the NFL. His text, the moment the Bills signed him was “Claypool 🤮.” He said, “we sent him home and got better.” I clearly have some bias against him but not without context. He has ability. I think the odds of him being good again are about 10%. He’s more likely to be a disaster than a quality player.

Is it safe to say that the Commanders may be as good at QB as the Bills by that logic? It’s just vibes but unknown on the Commanders end. They took an ultra-productive QB. We don’t know if he will be the best QB in the league, average or bad. He’s more likely to be elite than the Bills WRs based on talent, pedigree and resume.

Those sound like excuses. We can look at the talent, pedigree and resumes of every team and compare them. That’s what Sharp did. That’s what people do at this time of year. The reason that some are shy to do it is because it isn’t impressive comparatively. None of us would hesitate to stack Josh’s talent, pedigree and resume against his peers. That’s because he will show as elite.

Okay, all of them, go…

Who are the 11 teams better in a best case scenario? Who are the rest if we are top 16? The problem that some of us are struggling with is that no one is going on record with the teams. Obviously no one will say that the Bills have better pass catchers than SF but waiting for someone to (incorrectly) say that they are better than Atlanta or someone like that.

If there is a “notion to the contrary” someone should list the teams lower and support it. We are seeing a bunch of “they are better than Warren Sharp’s ranking” but no one is stepping up and listing the teams that they are better than. That doesn’t feel right. I have them bottom 3 with New England and LA Chargers.

You’re talking the card for entry not the Bills Bucks card right?

Objective: Isabella, Claypool, Hamler and MVS all flamed out in their previous stops. Feel free to dispute that if you believe that not to be a fact. Keon Coleman was the 8th WR drafted. Khalil Shakir has 49 career catches. Curtis Samuel has averaged 45 catches a year. Lol, Warren Sharp ranked them 28th based on talent, pedigree and resumes (I presume). Feel free to dispute it but list the teams that you THINK are worse. Don’t just say you don’t agree. Support your point. List the teams that are worse.

Everything is an objective opinion at the point. This is an objective opinion from a person that’s career is evaluating this stuff. I share a similar opinion. It’s fine to be optimistic or pessimistic. I’ve elected realistic. At this point, there is no reason to believe that they are better than that. The resumes and pedigrees of most of the roster doesn’t support optimism. Could they overachieve? Sure? If they overachieve, that could catapult them to 22 perhaps? That’s still not good enough. When you have Josh Allen, his weapons shouldn’t be outside of the top 10. His job shouldn’t be to overcome the limitations of the guys around him. They should be amplifying his immense talents.