Cowboys AND BEARS just showed why I keep saying Defense MATTERS still

[Alphadawg7]

UPDATE:  Bears just showed it again who just whooped the Rams.

 

I Cowboys and their top 5 defense just shut down and beat the hottest team with the most efficient and best offense in football led by the MVP front runner and one of the best QBs of all time.  

 

Everyone keeps saying “game has changed”, “you must have offensive minded coach”, “you gotta throw for 300 yards most games”...blah blah blah.  Same crap people have said every year for 10 years.  Yet the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history combined to score 22 points in their SB losses to defensive teams.   Last year Brady threw for 500 yards and lost to a journeyman QB because the Pats D was so bad.  In fact, none of the top 5 highest scoring offenses in history won the SB, and only 3 reached it going 0-3 and all losing to defensive teams.

 

There are a lot of ways to win.  And come playoff time, defense matters a lot.  I love offense as much as anyone, don’t get me wrong, but just tired of all the absurd hot takes around here every time a high scoring game happens people crap on McD like he has no chance to succeed.  Like this weeks ridiculous thread on how our biggest mistake was not hiring Frank Reich.  Or all the threads on now we have to fire McD and hire some other offensive HC.  It’s ridiculous.

 

Personally, I love the way McD and Beane are building this team.  Built the D into a real strength, cleared our cap, and got a promising young QB to build around.  Plus they got extra picks this draft too.

 

Couple OL and WR additions and we will be on our way to being a team that could really contend for a long time.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[mrags]

While I am not so optimistic that McBeane can get it all done. I do agree with you and have been honking the defensive and running game horn for a long time now. 

 

Im not doing the leg work to find out but if you look at the last 20+ super bowl winners, the team with the better defense wins an incredibly high %. I’m not saying those defenses are great. Some were. Some were not. But in general, the team with the stronger defense and stronger running game wins the majority by far. 

 

You pointed out the Pats in their crazy offensive years. Beat by wildcard Giants teams that had the better defense. 

 

How about the Steelers beating the Kurt Warner led Cards. 

 

The Seahags that won 1 and should have won 2 if Carroll would have just ran it 3 times from the 2 yard line. 

 

I could go on and on. It’s really pretty obvious tho when you look at it. 

 

Like you said, so many people want to make an argument that the game has changed and it’s a passing league now. The same argument could be made for defenses that can stop those high powered offenses. Which is why the strong running game always comes into play too. Have to get the other teams offense off the field, and then keep them off with the running game and TOP. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by mrags

[Domdab99]

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

Edited November 30, 2018 by Domdab99

[Alphadawg7]

14 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

 

Ah the good ole excuse train in full effect

Edited November 30, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[WhoTom]

Couple things:

 

1. Cowboys (strong D) are 7-5. Saints (strong O) are 10-2.

 

2. Jason Garrett is an offensive-minded HC.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Couple things:

 

1. Cowboys (strong D) are 7-5. Saints (strong O) are 10-2.

 

2. Jason Garrett is an offensive-minded HC.

 

 

 

And who lost game?  And who would be advancing in the playoffs and who would be going home if this was a playoff game?

 

PS:  14 of last 20 SB champions had a defensive HC.  The top two scoring offenses in NFL history both had defensive Head Coaches.  

Edited November 30, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Doc Brown]

Most Superbowl winners that have a great offense have to have at least a mediocre defense.  Most Superbowl winners that have a great defense have to have at least a mediocre offense.  They also have to be well coached (lack of penalties, solid special teams).   The Chiefs and Rams need to improve defensively or they'll lose to more rounded teams like the Saints and Steelers.  Even the Chargers or Seahawks could make some noise.  Screw the Patriots.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

And the running game

 

 

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Cowboys and their top 5 defense just shut down and beat the hottest team with the most efficient and best offense in football led by the MVP front runner and one of the best QBs of all time.  

 

Everyone keeps saying “game has changed”, “you must have offensive minded coach”, “you gotta throw for 300 yards most games”...blah blah blah.  Same crap people have said every year for 10 years.  Yet the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history combined to score 22 points in their SB losses to defensive teams.   Last year Brady threw for 500 yards and lost to a journeyman QB because the Pats D was so bad.  In fact, none of the top 5 highest scoring offenses in history won the SB, and only 3 reached it going 0-3 and all losing to defensive teams.

 

There are a lot of ways to win.  And come playoff time, defense matters a lot.  I love offense as much as anyone, don’t get me wrong, but just tired of all the absurd hot takes around here every time a high scoring game happens people crap on McD like he has no chance to succeed.  Like this weeks ridiculous thread on how our biggest mistake was not hiring Frank Reich.  Or all the threads on now we have to fire McD and hire some other offensive HC.  It’s ridiculous.

 

Personally, I love the way McD and Beane are building this team.  Built the D into a real strength, cleared our cap, and got a promising young QB to build around.  Plus they got extra picks this draft too.

 

Couple OL and WR additions and we will be on our way to being a team that could really contend for a long time.

 

Preach !!!

 

couldn't agree more, McD's  plan  is sustainable and l believe will win us Championships.

 

 

3 hours ago, mrags said:

While I am not so optimistic that McBeane can get it all done. I do agree with you and have been honking the defensive and running game horn for a long time now. 

 

Im not doing the leg work to find out but if you look at the last 20+ super bowl winners, the team with the better defense wins an incredibly high %. I’m not saying those defenses are great. Some were. Some were not. But in general, the team with the stronger defense and stronger running game wins the majority by far. 

 

You pointed out the Pats in their crazy offensive years. Beat by wildcard Giants teams that had the better defense. 

 

How about the Steelers beating the Kurt Warner led Cards. 

 

The Seahags that won 1 and should have won 2 if Carroll would have just ran it 3 times from the 2 yard line. 

 

I could go on and on. It’s really pretty obvious tho when you look at it. 

 

Like you said, so many people want to make an argument that the game has changed and it’s a passing league now. The same argument could be made for defenses that can stop those high powered offenses. Which is why the strong running game always comes into play too. Have to get the other teams offense off the field, and then keep them off with the running game and TOP. 

 

Also people see all this offense in college and no defense (talking to you Big 12) and think this is the future but its Alabama that is usually on top.

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 Screw the Patriots.

We all finally agree on something in this thread!

[Victory Formation]

Funny thing about our defense is we're a player or two away before we enter that elite echelon. We're really good now but a shutdown corner opposite of Tre White and we'd go into Seattle Seahawks territory from their SB era. Wouldn't mind another EDGE behind Lorax. Someone who can play SLB and DE.

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

That sounds familiar. Not so much the last few games

[Matt_In_NH]

Who ever said defense did not matter?  Retry much no one.   But it does not change the fact the number one piece is your QB.  That matters more.  One game doesn’t prove anything.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

 

Brees was missing throws because the pocket was  crashing in on him constantly.  Smith and VanderEsche were flying around hitting everything that moved.... hard... 

 

they attacked the whole game instead of sitting back hoping to cover the field while Drew dissects them. 

[mannc]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And who lost game?  And who would be advancing in the playoffs and who would be going home if this was a playoff game?

 

PS:  14 of last 20 SB champions had a defensive HC.  The top two scoring offenses in NFL history both had defensive Head Coaches.  

Well, if it was a playoff game it would have been in NO and quite likely a different result.  Cowboys d looked very good, but it was one game.  Let’s keep perspective.  

[billsbackto81]

Cowboys have had a good defense the entire year but it is no coincidence that their fortunes have taken a turn for the better since they acquired a legitimate #1 WR in Cooper. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by billsbackto81

[GunnerBill]

The Cowboys D was lights out last night. Best game I have seen a defense play all year. Drew didn't have his best game, was hurt by a few key drops - but the takeaway from that game was if you can bottle up Ingram and Kamara and make the Saints one dimensional while doubling Thomas the rest of their pass catchers can't beat you. Easier said than done. Byron Jones is having a hell of a year at corner for Dallas and he played outstandingly well last night and they are suddenly deep and talented on the defensive line. And Leighton Van Der Esch and Jaylon Smith may be the most talented linebacker tandem in the National Football League at the moment. Just shows what the Bills could have if Edmunds can improve his fundamentals and take a step forward next year, because having two linebackers who can run, hit and cover doesn't half make your defense a tough one to scheme against.

[The_Dude]

Let’s see who wins the super bowl, eh?

[Rc2catch]

To be fair, what we should of learned from that game is a superior team effort can win any game. A team first culture. 

The offensive schemes are all the rage right now but these guys haven’t won anything. And in Andy Reid’s case has shown his teams generally fail in the big games. 

The offensive minds are running the regular season and putting up all the flashy stats, but they haven’t won anything yet. Come playoff time you gotta be able to win games like last night too. Have to be able to run the ball and play competitive defense. 

[Troll Toll]

It’s good to be different in the NFL. Buffalo has a different makeup than the rest of the league and I’m curious to see what Beane and McDermott have planned for next year. I think the reason a great defense beats a great offense is because a great defense can scheme and shut down pieces of the offense in a way that the offense hasn’t seen all year. Meanwhile the individual defenders are each doing basically the same thing they do every week.

[H2o]

Defensive minded teams do win championships as well as offensive minded. The Bucs, the Ravens, the Steelers (everyone forgets how good those defenses were for Ben), and the Giants. You don't have to score 35-42 points a game to win a Lombardi in this league. A top tier defense and a consistent, albeit not prolific, offense CAN get the job done. 

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

 

Because of the Dallas defense 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Funny thing about our defense is we're a player or two away before we enter that elite echelon. We're really good now but a shutdown corner opposite of Tre White and we'd go into Seattle Seahawks territory from their SB era. Wouldn't mind another EDGE behind Lorax. Someone who can play SLB and DE.

 

Personally I think they can use that more than the 2nd shutdown corner.  Add a better rush and whoever is your #2 corner all of a sudden looks better.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

It’s  not that defense doesn’t matter.  It’s that defense doesn’t last over the long haul.

 

Did Jacksonville suddenly lose all their players this season or something?

 

and when Dallas shows up in New Orleans in the playoffs...in that dome...it’s a whole different ball game.

[Hebert19]

7 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

Another reason you need a good D.   Sometimes the O isnt in rhythm and the D needs to carry a team. 

[GRHater69]

Add the 2015 Broncos to that list. They shutdown a very good Carolina team's offense in the Superbowl and won the game. 

[row_33]

Nice to have that 1 in 100 game that goes against the tidal wave of O

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Last Night reminded me of the Bills against the Cowboys in the Super Bowls. The Bills came in with an offense that was scoring at will but then they ran up against the Cowboys who were younger, tougher and faster. Last night was the very definition of ‘flying to the ball’. Very impressive.

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And who lost game?  And who would be advancing in the playoffs and who would be going home if this was a playoff game?

 

PS:  14 of last 20 SB champions had a defensive HC.  The top two scoring offenses in NFL history both had defensive Head Coaches.  

 

I dont think anyone’s arguing that defense literally can’t win a game so this thread is kind of like your drunk uncle posting a picture of snow to refute climate change.

 

also, in the playoffs, this game would’ve been in New Orleans.

Edited November 30, 2018 by NoSaint

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

like your drunk uncle posting a picture of snow to refute climate change

Or like your loud mouth cousin posting a picture of rain as proof of climate change...otherwise known as weather!

[Charlottebillsfan2]

Unless you have a top tier QB in the NFL your best chance to win games is build a dominate D and have a running game. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Charlottebillsfan2

[TheElectricCompany]

Elite teams have off games. 

Thursday on the road? Yeah, the Saints hit the snooze button. 

This was not an example of anything. Saints will drop a 40 burger on the Bucs next week and we'll forget all about this. 

[leonbus23]

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or like your loud mouth cousin posting a picture of rain as proof of climate change...otherwise known as weather!

 

Or how about the climate scientists or experienced football professionals 

[TroutDog]

2 hours ago, mattynh said:

Who ever said defense did not matter?  Retry much no one.   But it does not change the fact the number one piece is your QB.  That matters more.  One game doesn’t prove anything.  

One game? A zillion examples noted here. 

[Dopey]

Hopefully we get a Saints vs. Cowboys match-up in the playoffs. That might tell us more, but I think the Saints will put a beat down in a re-match. Drew over Prescott and Sean Payton over Jason Garrett any day. If the Cowboys were to repeat last night's performance, I would be surprised. Rod Marinelli does deserve a ton of credit for the defensive performance this year.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Great thread, and good dig into the championship stats to help back it up. However, it is undeniable that D's overall have a lot of work to do to catch back up with the O's in terms of strategies to maximize the ways that are (legally) left in the NFL rule book to counter all of the ways that the NFL has affirmatively tried to rig the deck. The ones that can figure it out (arguably our own Bills are getting there) at least give themselves a chance, paired with a decent offense, to counter the Running Rebels of UNLV types out there. But small point as to the Saints last night, it is almost impossible to run the table in the NFL no matter how good your team is or record setting on O, and they were due for another stumble through self-inflicted errors to take only their 2nd loss this year. Chances are that they will bounce back and put up 45 in the next game. Personally can't wait to see what we can do with the shiny new offensive toys McBeane are working on bringing in for next year, while keeping this potentially monster D's nucleus in place along the way. 

[Chuck Wagon]

8 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

 

The blown helmet to helmet call was huge.  At the very least Saints likely get a FG to tie the game and potentially a TD.

[boater]

Every time a prolific offense comes along, the doomsayers pronounce the end of defense. Yet somehow, defense manages to survive.

 

I remember talking heads burying defense when Kurt Warner had a hot hand with the St Louis Rams.

 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

19 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

while keeping this potentially monster D's nucleus in place along the way. 

 

From a yardage perspective, we're #1 in the league against the pass and #2 in total defense. 

PPG is poor, but I think that's more reflective of terrible offensive play that doesn't allow us to control the time of procession. 

It just doesn't matter as much as it used to. A top 5 offense is worth substantially more than a top 5 defense, and you should build your team accordingly. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Well, if it was a playoff game it would have been in NO and quite likely a different result.  Cowboys d looked very good, but it was one game.  Let’s keep perspective.  

Exactly.  

 

Love how these defense first people lay in the woodwork and appear at times like this.  I was an anomaly not the norm.

 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, fansince88 said:

That sounds familiar. Not so much the last few games

Yeah because Michael Thomas drops so many passes...dude might have the highest catch percentage in NFL history for a WR...

 

And Brees probably has the highest conpletion percentage in NFL history...so so many drops.

Edited November 30, 2018 by matter2003