Are the Pats tanking?

[K-9]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

[K-9]

31 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Belichick tanking isn't going to happen given his chase for Shula's record.

True, but at the rate he’s presently going at, he has a better chance of setting the all time loss record first. Maybe he will retire with both records.

[Herc11]

This is what happens when you roll with Mac Jones as your QB. 

[Success]

13 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

 

It seems like every year, there is some "generational prospect" at QB who gets hyped.

 

Sometimes they pan out, and sometimes they don't. It's very rare they actually match or exceed expectations.

 

[Italian Bills]

Tanking ? Nahh… they are simply a bad team, right now… 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

The entire Pats organization is completely on board with tanking if it suits their needs, they as a whole have been busted repeatedly over multiple decades for cheating, what makes anyone think they would not do this if it suited them???

The players were all on board for all of Belichicks ridiculous ***** when they were winning and Tom put up with it too, who's gone there now that they're losing and Brady is long gone?

Edited October 12, 2023 by Warcodered

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

I actually agree.  I think the Drake Maye is as good a pro prospect as Caleb if not better.  This last draft everyone raving about how great Bryce Young was, I was thrilled when the Panthers picked him first and the Texans (living in Houston) got the bigger and battle tested CJ Stroud who has been a rock star.

 

I will go out on a limb after 5 measly games and state CJ Stroud will be considered a top 5 NFL QB in a few years.

 

And I never ever liked Kyler Murray.

[Low Positive]

24 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

A bigger Kyler Murray would be an absolute stud

[RoyBatty is alive]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It seems like every year, there is some "generational prospect" at QB who gets hyped.

 

Sometimes they pan out, and sometimes they don't. It's very rare they actually match or exceed expectations.

 

The ONLY "generational" QBs i considered when they were in college were Peyton Manning and John Elway and maybe Andrew Luck.

[H2o]

His ego wouldn't allow him to tank. The problem is he's a terrible GM and there's no more Tommy Boy. Mac Jones is also trash. That team is the very definition of meh from top to bottom. 

[May Day 10]

1OA Qbs since 1990.

How many are tank-worthy?

 

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Jamarcus Russell

Tim Couch

David Carr

Sam Bradford

Jeff George

Alex Smith

Mike Vick

Matt Stafford

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton

Drew Bledsoe

Bryce Young

Trevor Lawrence

Baker Mayfield

Payton Manning

Joe Burrow

Kyler Murray

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

 

I would argue that maybe only Peyton Manning turned around his team.  Andrew Luck grabbed the keys to an already decent car (however suffered injuries and left the league).  Joe Burrow is great, but he has Chase and Higgins.  He has also changed the fortunes of the Bengals though.  Carson Palmer also gave the Bengals some decent seasons after a desert of ineptitude.  

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by May Day 10

[gonzo1105]

15 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

A bigger Kyler Murray would be an absolute stud

Not really, Murray as a # 1 pick to me has been a disappointment 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

31 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

This is what happens when you roll with Mac Jones as your QB. 

You are requested to use his proper trademark when mentioning his name:

 

🌟MJ🏈10🌟

 

Thank you.

[Captain Hindsight]

24 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

A bigger Kyler Murray would be an absolute stud

Especially if he studied 

16 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

1OA Qbs since 1990.

How many are tank-worthy?

 

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Jamarcus Russell

Tim Couch

David Carr

Sam Bradford

Jeff George

Alex Smith

Mike Vick

Matt Stafford

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton

Drew Bledsoe

Bryce Young

Trevor Lawrence

Baker Mayfield

Payton Manning

Joe Burrow

Kyler Murray

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

 

Palmer

Vick

Luck

lawrence 

Manning (both)

Newton

Burrow

 

Goff and Smith turned into good starters but it took a while 

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

I think you have a forward thinking leadership,  start building a good org, then find a high trait, superlative qb in the draft who has it between the ears.  A poorly run team can't fall on their face, grab Caleb Williams, and everything else will follow suit with the same management making the same mistakes.

 

A good QB can turn teams around.  Belicheat was continuing down his Cleveland Browns path with Bledsoe until lucking into drafting Brady, and then lucking into Mo Lewis almost killing Bledsoe, causing him to miss almost an entire season and let Brady prove himself.  The 49'ers were going to be average at best if they didn't get lucky and draft Purdy, a year after trading up/major picks to go up and get a guy who likes like a bust already.

 

The problem with the Cheaters is that Belicheat is both HC and GM and the GM sucks and the HC can't coach up his bad players. You can't fire the GM without firing the HC.  

 

57 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

 

I hear you.  I'm going to have to see it first.

[Fleezoid]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

That is fair  

Who is you goat? 

Shula? Lombardi? Landry? Reid? 

 

Mine would be Bill Walsh. 

 

Totally on board with Bill Walsh. I'd probably consider Shula as well. He only won 2 Super Bowls, but he is the only coach to get the perfect season. Belichick had the chance, but in my opinion, got out coached by Tom Coughlin.

 

Don Shula was also great at coaching to the strength of his players. When he had a good running game, he ran. When he got Marino, he threw. When Jimmy Johnson took over the Dolphins, he tried to force his run-focus game into a team with a HOF QB.

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You are requested to use his proper trademark when mentioning his name:

 

🌟MJ🏈10🌟

 

Thank you.

Remember when ESPN compared Macs stats to Bradys from 2001 and said they were basically the same player? Completely ignoring the fact that football had changed in the last 20 years 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

 

Stated as such weeks ago.  Beli-CHEAT convinced Krafty best way to succeed is to trade for as many picks next year and tank getting replacement QB and other younger players next year.  Expect them to be trading players by end of month.

Technically the term is STANKing.

[stevewin]

4 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Not buying he's tanking. This is exactly Bill Belichick coaching abilities outside of Brady and cheating. I'll give him the HOF simply due to the number of Super Bowls, but GOAT?? No freaking way. 

Fixed

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

On paper Maye is maybe a better pro prospect. He too is a double threat, except he's 6'4" and weights 230 LBs.. Williams is a magician but I'm a little (not much) concerned about his ability to transition. I just hope that both these guys go to teams that are prepared to do what is necessary to have them develop and succeed.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree 

 

If Kyler Murray was 3 inches taller and had a better work ethic he would be a top 5-7 QB in the league. So a bigger Kyler Murray with a better work ethic is still a dam fine prospect. 

[The Frankish Reich]

They're so bad on offense that even if they get the first pick I wouldn't be surprised if Caleb pulled an Eli and refused to play for them. He could always stay at USC one more year. And that's how much things have changed in Foxborough.

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

1OA Qbs since 1990.

How many are tank-worthy?

 

(S)Tanking is not just for QBs.  If you have been just missing playoffs or just getting in QBs and being knocked out you are picking late every round.

A team which knows it is tanking can trade players for picks in following year and then combine those picks with early round picks to pick even earlier.

[78thealltimegreat]

The one factor against this is Bill is now in his 70s he doesn’t want to rebuild he can land Caleb Williams all he wants but simple fact is as long as 17 is a Bill he won’t even have the best QB in the division 

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think BB has it in him to tank. They are just a bad team that bad personal decisions have finally caught up to them 

not to mention hes the last coach that would benefit from a tank. tank would start to maybe show benefits in what 2-3years? in 2-3years he'll be in thailand slurping down adrenochrome by the glassful and worshipping moloch, or whatever he does in his free time

[machine gun kelly]

He’s too arrogant to tank.  He just coaches likes 1989 football with the run game, TE’s over the middle and defense.  I actually want to see them win at least 7 games as long as it’s not us.  Perpetually 8-9, never bad enough for a franchise QB, and never good enough for the playoffs.  Belicheck ending with 6-7 years of mediocrity.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

No they just suck because BB isnt a good GM and his talent is depleted, especially on offense.

 

Tom Brady made BB. BB is a good defensive coordinator, bad at everything else. 

I don’t know, man. He had a top tier QB and assembled teams around him to help them become the greatest dynasty the NFL will ever see. 
 

We’ve had Josh Allen for six years. SIX. And nothing. 
 

I know Im “supposed” to hate Belichick, but I don’t. 
 

As awesome as Brady was, he didn’t win all of those games by himself. 
 

Belichick deserves credit for that. 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Not buying he's tanking. This is exactly Bill Belichick coaching abilities outside of Brady. I'll give him the HOF simply due to the number of Super Bowls, but GOAT?? No freaking way. 

 

 

This isn't on Bill Belichick the coach, IMO. Or at least not primarily. It's on Bill Belichick the GM. He used to be a really really good GM. He's just not anymore. At his age he doesn't have the juice to do both. 

 

That roster mostly just sucks.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

9 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not on purpose, but the nightmare scenario as a Bills fan is Caleb Williams in Foxbourgh.

It will never happen. 

[Mikie2times]

Bill had been dating Linda Holliday since 2007. They recently broke up. Bill seems like a bit of a abnormal introverted personality. Perhaps that situation has impacted him a little more than what one would think? I have no earthly clue. Just speculating. As others have pointed out the roster is trash.

 

He is 100% not tanking. Not with the record in site and his age not doing him any favors. 

[Dr.Sack]

Belichick is a crappy HC without the GOAT level QB. 

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

No they just suck because BB isnt a good GM and his talent is depleted, especially on offense.

 

Tom Brady made BB. 

Fixed your run on for you.

 

He built a dynasty, his systems crushed the NFL for years, his decisions as GM have ultimately crushed their chances of winning again.

[The Jokeman]

10 hours ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

You know I had a similar thought this morning. 

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No, Belichick is just a terrible GM. 

he could never build a winner

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Belichick is a crappy HC without the GOAT level QB. 

 

He is a crappy coach because Ernie Adams is no longer directory of cheats, spying and intelligence.

He used to get film on each zebra and tailor notes on what each zebra would call flags on.

[4merper4mer]

13 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

If Kyler Murray was 3 inches taller and had a better work ethic he would be a top 5-7 QB in the league. So a bigger Kyler Murray with a better work ethic is still a dam fine prospect. 

Williams is already saying stuff like “If team x gets the pick, I’m going back to USC for another year”.  That’s his choice and with NIL the equation has changed but it is also a major red flag IMO and not a good reflection on leadership and work ethic.  

[RunTheBall]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

He is a crappy coach because Ernie Adams is no longer directory of cheats, spying and intelligence.

He used to get film on each zebra and tailor notes on what each zebra would call flags on.

Pats* have always been cheating bastards but that example is just great gameplanning 

[benderbender]

15 hours ago, Gugny said:

I don’t know, man. He had a top tier QB and assembled teams around him to help them become the greatest dynasty the NFL will ever see. 

We’ve had Josh Allen for six years. SIX. And nothing. 

I know I'm “supposed” to hate Belichick, but I don’t. 

As awesome as Brady was, he didn’t win all of those games by himself. 

Belichick deserves credit for that. 

Sorry. He's had his flowers for decades. You're free to ignore all the cheating, but to get defensive when he finally isn't getting the benefit of the doubt is weird. Why isn't his tanking for Williams or Harrison Jr seen as yet another "it's only against the rules if you get caught" out of the box stratagem from the grumpy genius? Why has the narrative changed? Is it because Andy Reid is harder to hate because he's friendly, and loves chicky nuggies?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 hours ago, uninja said:

BB has 299 wins and needs 20 more to beat the record. He's gunning for it and you better believe it.

 

at his pace, he’s gonna need likely three more seasons after this one to break that record. He won’t have the opportunity to do it as a patriot if they’re playing that poorly.

 

Caleb Williams may be his best Hope to turn things around quickly.

22 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not on purpose, but the nightmare scenario as a Bills fan is Caleb Williams in Foxbourgh.

dude, hast to end up in the NFC. Period.  it’s ridiculous The quarterback disparity between the two conferences currently.

[PaattMaann]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Fixed your run on for you.

 

He built a dynasty, his systems crushed the NFL for years, his decisions as GM have ultimately crushed their chances of winning again.

 

its the interwebs, proper grammar has no place here ya nerd

 

he wouldn't have built a dynasty if it weren't for having Tom Brady

17 hours ago, Gugny said:

I don’t know, man. He had a top tier QB and assembled teams around him to help them become the greatest dynasty the NFL will ever see. 
 

We’ve had Josh Allen for six years. SIX. And nothing. 
 

I know Im “supposed” to hate Belichick, but I don’t. 
 

As awesome as Brady was, he didn’t win all of those games by himself. 
 

Belichick deserves credit for that. 

 

You are right that he was responsible for that dynasty, no doubt, but if you take Brady off that squad they are not a dynasty...that was my point, of which my articulation was poor.