Thurman#1

Parson was a lot more expensive. Quinnen's total is $30M/ year. The 'Boys have him for the next five years and $150M.

We absolutely have. Star Lotulelei was a damn good run stuffer / space eater his first two years here. And people on these boards hated him because he wasn't rushing the passer.

Polite disagreement here. Were around 30% coverage sacks? Yeah, probably, fair enough. But that's how it goes for pass rushers. But, "one, maybe two where he beat his man off the line and got to the QB" as you say? Nah, it was more than that. He was getting some quick pressure. Not that he's the old Von, but still pretty damn quick and good when healthy, which he is now. Wouldn't mind this move, but I wouldn't want them to overpay.

Yeah. I'd guess sidelines for Leonhard, but could go either way.

Yeah, my guess is DJ Moore.

Reasonable position, but I strongly disagree. He was in position to get a Super Bowl last year without Josh's fumble. Particularly if he ever gets one really good pass rusher, I think he'll be in a chance to rack up some Lombardis.

As pointed out above, not true. He paid Diggs. Fantastic production, tapering off at the end, and this poor argument. Making one personnel decision stand for the team's whole production is just logically ridiculous. We were in position to be able to go all the way in several season with Diggs. The reason we didn't was more about facing Mahomes in the playoffs than about having signed Diggs.

Yeah, there will. Just requires a team with a bad pass rush and some bad luck. Plenty of teams come close over the years. It's a bit rare to get under six. In 2024 the Browns had 4. In 2020 the Texans had 3. In 2018, the Niners had 2. I just read that those teams are really historically bad, but I don't think it's coincidence that most of the worst INT totals in history came in the last few years. With some more bad play and bad luck, teams will reach it again. Might easily be a while, though.

This is spin, not logic. Over the years Josh has had plenty of plays where he thought about doing something dangerous but then didn't. Was he not Josh Allen on those plays? The idea's ridiculous. Plenty of people have improved their decision-making over time, football player included, but by no means limited to them. On some plays, he's Josh Allen making good decisions. On some plays he's Josh Allen making bad decisions. Same guy. He's not incapable of doing a better job of avoiding those bad plays, either. He's had some fairly long periods in his career where he has managed to make a far higher percentage of good decisions. And if he does more of that, it will be better for him and for the Bills.

First, it ain't .3%. His INT percentage alone last year was 2.2%. Which is significantly above average. And of course we talk about the plays he didn't make and the mistakes he made. Duh!!! Talking about what a guy does is what fans do. It's expecting people not to talk about mistakes because reasons that doesn't make sense. You talk about both if you have any sense. Both have consequences, the great plays and the bad ones. That horrendous fumble in the Denver game cost us the game. If he just pulls the ball into his body we would probably have been in the Super Bowl last year. Are we supposed to pretend it never happened? If you think so, why? Fact is, quarterbacks can be terrific without having high amounts of big mistakes. Look at Mahomes. His INT rate is below average, with consistency. Josh's is above average over time. But not always. Not only can quarterbacks perform extremely well without high amounts of mistakes, but so can Josh. He's had years where he was much better at avoiding mistakes. And bad ones. And he didn't turn into a bad or average QB in the years where he had fewer giveaways. Yes, we should be happy Josh is our QB. He's terrific. No, that doesn't mean that legitimate criticism must be avoided and shouted down at all costs. He's not a religious prophet, he's a football player, although certainly a terrific one.

Me too, but that ship has sailed.

Well, no, not what all of us know. But certainly what many of us want to believe. You're right, it's a spot-perfect example of confirmation bias. If you throw out all the games where the Bills defense played very well in the playoffs ... well, first you're being intellectually dishonest, but yeah, if you first do that, you'll indeed find that the defense played poorly. That's how stats work. Again, when you throw out all of those very good playoff games by the D, you are left with four out of six games against the Chiefs with Mahomes at the absolute peak of his powers. Look at a defense playing six games, with four of 'em against that Mahomes and you're going to find - surprise, surprise - the performance won't be great. And the first of those two other games are Denver a few months ago when the D allowed 24 points in regulation. (Again, not reasonable to blame the defense for either of those two field goal drives bracketing halftime. The D on those two drives allowed a total of two yards to the Denver offense. Blaming ANY of that on our D is a confirmation that you're desperate to blame them, reasonable or not.) The second of those two games was Cincy, when our offense scored ten points total. Again, blaming the defenses says more about the blamer than it does about the defense. The whole team had zero juice that day after the Hamlin thing and the most chaotic season I can remember, with Knox's brother's death, the two blizzards, the fewer home games because of the blizzards, the mass shooter, and on and on and on. People do talk about how terrific Josh has been in the playoffs, and for good reason. You don't get people saying, "Man, those Chiefs defenses sucked against Buffalo, look at the stats." And yet they do say it about the Bills. Almost nobody stopped those Chiefs offenses, and the Lombardis show it.

Nah. I mean, yeah, you'd never have a turnover, ever. Just take a knee every play. Putting the ball in Josh's hands to take a bit of a risk is something this team will have to do. Hell, it's the main part of why you try to get a QB as good as Josh. But Josh screwed up. Every play is a risk. The risks were very small on that play if the player just made the sensible decision. That happened because Josh held the ball in his outstretched hand on a play that at that point had zero chance of success. If he'd just tucked it into his belly the way you're supposed to, nobody remembers that play and - I say we whip the Pats after we don't lose those three points - we're talking about how the team performed in the Super Bowl. Bad execution. Worse than bad. Horrendous.

That was not dumb coaching, it just wasn't. Wanna argue that it was a bit risky coaching? That'd be fair enough. Generally speaking, though, I'm thrilled if you put the ball in Josh's hands and ask him to intelligently see if he can make a play. Go ahead and do that a few times a game. Hell, that's the main point of this thread. Don't do it every play. But there were 16 seconds left and they had to get 30 yards for a shot at a long field goal. How many times has Josh managed something along those lines for us, with two or three shots at it? Quite a few. With an ordinary QB, yeah, pretty unlikely. With Josh Allen, there is absolutely a realistic chance ... until he scrambles past the LOS there. But the turnover wasn't a result of bad coaching. It was bad play. By the player. In that situation you look for a shot at making a big play and if there isn't a good one, you don't take the risk. Josh has the ball in his outstretched hand. Seven yards past the LOS he fakes a throw, between two defenders, with no chance of getting more than maybe five more yards. And then he doesn't bring the ball against his body, he keeps it in his outstretched hand. That was just bad decision-making, a major risk at a moment when there was zero upside in that situation. If you're the Bills coach, you have to be able to trust Josh to slide there, past the LOS with no reasonable way to make a long run.

Inconvenient too, yeah? He comprehends it just fine, same as you comprehend his just fine but don't want to answer. Josh tied for 11th last year in INTs and was exactly 11th in INT percentage. It's still a concern for him. IMO they will turn up the intensity a bit but will absolutely still value and use reasonably heavily the run game and the short pass game.