Sammy Watkins' Rib

Many of us feel this way. That's why when considering age, contract and the entire package, for a lot of us the list of players we would trade Allen for is only 2-5 players long. I'm willing to pass on guys proven to be better now Like Watson, Jackson and Dak for holding onto the upside Allen has.

Daniel Jones could probably lead your 'maybe' list. Since I am a biased Bills fan their are only two I would trade Allen for. Mahomes and Wilson. I think Wilson is one of those QB's that can play to 40 at a high level. Maybe even 41 or 42. So that's 8 or 10 years still of elite QB play. I really like the other 3 on you 'yes' list. And all three might even be better than Allen now. But i don't see any of them as either substantially better or a guarantee that they will sustain their success or trajectory that I would be comfortable trading Allen. I rather just take the risk of keeping Allen and hope to hit one out of the park.

Good catch. I missed that.

True. But a pretty meaningless stat. He basically reached 1000 yards and no more. Steve Johnson: 2010: 1,073 2011: 1,004 2012: 1,046 Eric Moulds: 1998: 1,368 1999: 994 2000: 1,326 2001: 904 2002: 1,292 Moulds was 6 yards shy of putting together three straight 1000 yard seasons in which two would have been 1300+ yard seasons. Even Lee Evans racked up 35 more yards than Steve Johnson over a three season span.

He probably should be in the top 5 simply for longevity, above average skill and being a team leader. But I don't recall many of the defenses he was on as very good. During his 13 year career Bills fielded a bottom half of the league defense in 9 out of those 13 years. They ranked #4 in 2014 and #2 in 2018. Mario Williams and the emergence of Jerry Hughes was a big reason why the 2014 defense was great. And the last two seasons has been due in a large part to the emergence of our secondary.

Not sure about Fitz but in 2015, Taylor's first season with us he was 8th overall in QB rating and 10th overall in QBR. He was a good QB that year. Really that team had some talent and should have been the team to break the drought. Even with Rex being a terrible coach it possibly would have happened if Taylor doesn't miss the Jags and Bengals games.

Turbitzky and the offense suffered from the Bears takeaways drying up last year. 2018 they lead the league in takeaways by a good margin. A non-sustainable stat from year to year typically. Luckily for the the Bills offense, the Bills defense was only above average in takeaways but nowhere near elite like Pittsburgh or New England last year. So in 2020 the Bills D could possibly have even more takeaways or worst case scenario they fall back from above average to average but it should be a small decline rather than a huge step back to the mean. Admittedly Allens, bar is still pretty low too. He only has to improve upon an 85 QB rating type season (although I remember you don't care for QB rating stats) to continue showing progress. He doesn't have to be out of this world to put in a 88 or 90 rating type season. Hopefully he will do better but I'd be perfectly happy with any kind of improvement even if it is very small jump. Turbititzky and Mark Sanchez are probably the two best comps though if we are considering how things could go bad for Allen. I think the difference is we have Fromm now ready to be groomed. Maybe we bring in a veteran with a lot of experience. But I could also see us just giving Fromm a legitimate shot if Allen takes a step backwards and they want a back up plan. For the Bears, I don't think it is a certainty that Foles starts of Turbitzky. Likely probably but Mitch should get his chance still in the pre-season. Assuming we have a pre-season.

Taylor gets crapped on a lot here. Yeah, he's not a good QB. Especially not a good QB now. But he did have a good first season with us. From then it was a downward trajectory. But even with that being the case the fact that he could be ranked on this list as number one I think just shows how craptastic all the other QB's were through that decade. Fitz's Bills career in a lot of ways was similar to Taylor's. Great first year, or first 8 games or so. Then a consistent downward trend after that. Fred Jackson has to be on that list for me. Honestly guys like White, Hyde and Poyer should all be considered even though they only played three seasons in this decade.

Hmm. Define bad year. Clowney on a one year prove it deal just makes too much sense. Hope he comes but won't hold my breath. Problem is after he puts in a 12+ sack season I'm not necessarily sure I want to pay him a boat load of money. It would have to be like a 16+ sack season.

Okay Scott that is fine. But you are either the only person to never use QB rating ever in any QB debate. Or a liar. If you are consistent with that thought and never bring it up then that is fair. BBF- Mahomes was really good with a 83 QB rating. That’s fine. But then does that mean we can also admit Allen was pretty good in some of his games with 83 ratings?

For those interested I found the link on Pro Football Reference where you can easily search individual player stats for deep or short passes or all kinds of things. John Brown Deep Throw Stats The link is for John Brown. But at the top of page go to the Play Index tab and then click on Game Play Finder. You can sort through virtually any player and any play scenario. In the link, scroll about half way down to find the passing stats for the QBs that threw deep passes to John Brown.

?? At the end of the day what was his QB rating? Good or bad?

Yeah that was the wrong choice of words in that post. Was meant to mean he improved over the whole of the second half of the season despite having to play those tough defenses during that stretch. I wouldn't go as far as saying his game @ New England was not good. He posted a QB rating over 100. And over the last two seasons Mahomes is the only QB to post a better QB rating than Allen at New England in 2018.

No. But there was also a 6th round QB who went on to be the GOAT. I’m not saying Minshew won’t have a long career. I believe my only main argument was that I rather have Allen over Minshew. Both finished the second half of the season with the same ability for the most part so I’ll take the guy with the sky high potential over the better version of Case Keemun. Billl, my original post on the topic was about 8 or 10 posts before the one that you read and have sited. If you read that one first I think my position makes more sense. iPhone doesn’t give me a post # to reference. my bad for the confusion on the other post.

ah. I see where are lines are crossing. You are taking that quote to mean I’ve said he played well in all three of those games. Obviously he did not. Those were great defenses. the quote is supposed to go along with the original stats showing each players first half of the season vs second half of the season. Basically I am showing that Allen improved in the second half overall while having to also play against the toughest defenses duri g that second half span. no he did not have good games against Pitt or Baltimore. But even with those two stinkers he played a tiny bit better than Minshew to finish off the second half of the season. that is my entire point. i can see where it was confusing with how I typed that so thank you for clarifying. True. Also true is that he regressed as he got more reps and more teams got film on him.