Are the Pats tanking?

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, PaattMaann said:

 

its the interwebs, proper grammar has no place here ya nerd

 

he wouldn't have built a dynasty if it weren't for having Tom Brady

 

You are right that he was responsible for that dynasty, no doubt, but if you take Brady off that squad they are not a dynasty...that was my point, of which my articulation was poor.

Gotcha. 
 

I feel like when the question “was it Brady or Belichick” is asked, a lot of people feel like it has to be one or the other. 
 

It was both, IMO. 

 

Insert any coach/GM and sure … they’d probably manage to win one or two. 
 

But six?  They both deserve the majority of the credit. 

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Williams is already saying stuff like “If team x gets the pick, I’m going back to USC for another year”.  That’s his choice and with NIL the equation has changed but it is also a major red flag IMO and not a good reflection on leadership and work ethic.  

On the one hand I get that, on the other hand some teams have such terrible Ownership/FO that I can't really blame a guy not wanting to have to be saddled with dragging that anchor.

[PatsFanNH]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

No. The simple fact is the O is worse because the O line is actually either the worst in the NFL or the second worst in the NFL. Add in the Pats have average WR, and actually downgraded from Meyers to JuJu (whose knee seems shot).  So now even the run game stinks because the O line can’t block and the pass game stinks because the QB has the least amount of time to throw in the NFL. Also the last 2 games Jones has just regressed terribly! 
 

As for Kraft he hates losing! If this keeps up BB will be “retiring” before the season ends.

 

 

 

[dma0034]

Tank for Caleb Williams and re-resign Josh McDaniels when he gets fired from the Raiders. 

[PatsFanNH]

12 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

On the one hand I get that, on the other hand some teams have such terrible Ownership/FO that I can't really blame a guy not wanting to have to be saddled with dragging that anchor.

To stay on the subject thread.. if you were him NE wouldn’t be one of those teams. They won for over 20 years and Kraft is still considered one of the top owners.  Heck even if people were right and it was all Brady.. wouldn’t your ego as a QB say you could do it too?

[4merper4mer]

23 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

On the one hand I get that, on the other hand some teams have such terrible Ownership/FO that I can't really blame a guy not wanting to have to be saddled with dragging that anchor.

I understand but there is no law against keeping his mouth shut and simply going back to school.  Why make a public pronouncement?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

No. The simple fact is the O is worse because the O line is actually either the worst in the NFL or the second worst in the NFL. Add in the Pats have average WR, and actually downgraded from Meyers to JuJu (whose knee seems shot).  So now even the run game stinks because the O line can’t block and the pass game stinks because the QB has the least amount of time to throw in the NFL. Also the last 2 games Jones has just regressed terribly! 
 

As for Kraft he hates losing! If this keeps up BB will be “retiring” before the season ends.

 

I can't see him retiring.  I think he'll force Kraft to fire him.

 

8 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

Tank for Caleb Williams and re-resign Josh McDaniels when he gets fired from the Raiders. 

 

The Cheaters aren't one of the 5 teams he said he'd come out next year for.  Maybe Drake Maye.  But they probably won't be in position to get either since I doubt they'll lose enough to be one of the top-2 teams.

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I can't see him retiring.  I think he'll force Kraft to fire him.

 

 

The Cheaters aren't one of the 5 teams he said he'd come out next year for.  Maybe Drake Maye.  But they probably won't be in position to get either since I doubt they'll lose enough to be one of the top-2 teams.

lol I would love to agree with you but the SAINTS bet my team 34-0.. the SAINTS!! Ugh I can’t see a lay up win out there with the Pats current O

[Doc]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

lol I would love to agree with you but the SAINTS bet my team 34-0.. the SAINTS!! Ugh I can’t see a lay up win out there with the Pats current O

 

You'll know whether they're tanking if they lose to the Jets.

 

And there will probably be several 1 win teams.  The Cheaters will have the strongest SOS out of all of them, which means picking last out of all of them.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

To stay on the subject thread.. if you were him NE wouldn’t be one of those teams. They won for over 20 years and Kraft is still considered one of the top owners.  Heck even if people were right and it was all Brady.. wouldn’t your ego as a QB say you could do it too?

Someone said they wouldn't be surprised because of how bad the offense has been, I don't know about that, because of the Patriots history they probably get a pass. On the other hand, besides Belichick who has seemingly slid off into becoming a rather awful GM the Patriots haven't exactly had much in the way of success. So as far as ownership he's really only gotten it right once. Then he just didn't get in the way, which really shouldn't be as high a bar as it is, but I guess we'll see soon if he can find a replacement.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I feel like when the question “was it Brady or Belichick” is asked, a lot of people feel like it has to be one or the other. 
 

It was both, IMO. 

 

Insert any coach/GM and sure … they’d probably manage to win one or two. 
 

But six?  They both deserve the majority of the credit. 

 

Well, when one of the two never had any success until the other arrived, even with essentially the same team othewise, then upon the departure of that other who goes on to do more of the same at an age considered ancient by NFL standards, and in setting records in that way, while the one reverts back to his ways pre when the other showe up, that also makes its own statement.  

 

The Pats' offense on Brady's watch was more Brady's than it was any of the OC's that they've had, which explains why they've all sucked elsewhere too, often repeatedly.  

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

25 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Someone said they wouldn't be surprised because of how bad the offense has been, I don't know about that, because of the Patriots history they probably get a pass. On the other hand, besides Belichick who has seemingly slid off into becoming a rather awful GM the Patriots haven't exactly had much in the way of success. So as far as ownership he's really only gotten it right once. Then he just didn't get in the way, which really shouldn't be as high a bar as it is, but I guess we'll see soon if he can find a replacement.

Since Kraft became owner:

 

Parcells — Left because he couldn’t “buy the groceries” but they went to 1 SB

 

Pete Carroll — who wasnt’t ready yet be an NFL HC and Kraft still learning.

 

BB — well we know this one.

 

You said only got it right once, I say all 3 were good hires, I think Carroll was hurt by his inexperience as well as Krafts inexperience as an owner. 

mom not worried about the next HC, I am worried  about the next GM he has to choose as he has not gotten that one right on it own yet. (Watch he hires Jim Harbaugh and gives him BB type control lol)

 

[PatsFanNH]

40 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You'll know whether they're tanking if they lose to the Jets.

 

And there will probably be several 1 win teams.  The Cheaters will have the strongest SOS out of all of them, which means picking last out of all of them.

I don’t think they are tanking on purpose. But the loss of so many CB and Judon and the D is average now, while the O is an awful mess..  right now they have the 5th pick and Chicago has the top 2 picks and the Pats face Denver and Minnesota will definitely win a few games. So I can see them having a top 3 pick if they win just 1 more game..

[Albany,n.y.]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

Jerod Mayo is the next Patriots coach, not junior.  

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

Maybe this is his last year, and his parting gift to Kraft is a top 5 pick, to get a new QB. If Belicheck has a bad season, the fans won't be able to B word about him not being fired, because he has earned patience. If a new head coach had a season like this, the fans would push heavily for them to be fired.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

As for Kraft he hates losing! If this keeps up BB will be “retiring” before the season ends.

 

More likely promoted to front office.

[Special K]

I believe the game has changed so much on offense that  Bellichek’s defensive schemes could not keep up.

 

Maybe the game has passed him by, so to speak. The best evidence of this was two years ago when Josh Allen dismantled the Pats D in the playoffs. BB actually came over  to the Bills locker room after the game to congratulate Allen...which I found unusual at the time, but now look back on it as his way of saying his D isn’t cut out to stop today’s QB’s like Allen and Mahomes....I think he’s just hanging on at this point to set the all time wins mark for a coach, and then he will retire, IMO.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Special K

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, when one of the two never had any success until the other arrived, even with essentially the same team othewise, then upon the departure of that other who goes on to do more of the same at an age considered ancient by NFL standards, and in setting records in that way, while the one reverts back to his ways pre when the other showe up, that also makes its own statement.  

 

The Pats' offense on Brady's watch was more Brady's than it was any of the OC's that they've had, which explains why they've all sucked elsewhere too, often repeatedly.  

 

 

The Patriots were never the same team year-to-year. 
 

That’s why BB deserves credit as a GM. 

 

He knew which castoffs and vets to acquire at the right time. And - more importantly - he knew when to get rid of them. 
 

I get that most Bills fans hate to hear it … but he’s a better GM than the Bills have ever had and he’s a better HC than anyone has ever had. 
 

Period. 

[Warcodered]

 

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

The Patriots were never the same team year-to-year. 
 

That’s why BB deserves credit as a GM. 

 

He knew which castoffs and vets to acquire at the right time. And - more importantly - he knew when to get rid of them. 
 

I get that most Bills fans hate to hear it … but he’s a better GM than the Bills have ever had and he’s a better HC than anyone has ever had. 
 

Period. 

 

His defenses got worse over time and he's supposed to be a defensive guru. 

 

They won very few playoff games because of their defense after Brady's early seasons. 

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

The Patriots were never the same team year-to-year. 
 

That’s why BB deserves credit as a GM. 

 

He knew which castoffs and vets to acquire at the right time. And - more importantly - he knew when to get rid of them. 
 

I get that most Bills fans hate to hear it … but he’s a better GM than the Bills have ever had and he’s a better HC than anyone has ever had. 
 

Period. 

Respectfully agree to disagree. Belichick sans Brady scares no one. 

[QLBillsFan]

Well BB currently is the same coach he was in Cleveland. An average coach with limited talent. Too soon?? He abused the Bills.. wasn’t real humble, got all the calls including the tuck. So he’s bad and so is his team.

 

I hope Kraft ( who suddenly isn’t getting shown 20 times a game) hangs on to him. They are not good and getting worse. Hope he coaches for 5 more years🤷🏻‍♂️

On 10/12/2023 at 9:03 AM, starrymessenger said:

Mac Jones is terrible in the NE O. But he'd probably be very good in San Fran. He has pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses as Brock Purdy.

Mac is dreadful. Shanny the arrogant got lucky with Purdy. Let’s wait before we anoint him as Montana. Shanny is not able to win the big game. 

[QLBillsFan]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:46 AM, High Football IQ said:

Sure hope not. Caleb Williams is one of the best QB prospects in the last 20+ years, some already saying the next Mahomes so definitely don't need that in this division especially on the Patriots. 🤢

Think we have heard this about several QB’s. I’ll see with Williams. The NFL is full of players who are not 3 stars vs 5 stars. Like the fact his not painting his nails w F Utah this year. That’s growth.. since they beat him twice. 

[Dr.Sack]

Belichick sucks 

[Gugny]

10 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

His defenses got worse over time and he's supposed to be a defensive guru. 

 

They won very few playoff games because of their defense after Brady's early seasons. 

 

 

I’m not sure what your point is. 
 

Here is mine: BB did a great job building a team around a top tier QB. 
 

He is the best in-game head coach in the history of the game. 
 

He knows the rules better than anyone on the planet. 
 

And he led the teams that he built to six championships. 
 

There’s really no choice but to admire and respect a résumé like that. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

They were a middling roster then they had a bunch of injuries.  Idk that they’re tanking I think they’re just that bad talent wise at this point 

 

Deciding to tank in the midst of the season is pretty tough cuz the players are all playing for future contracts. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[starrymessenger]

6 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Well BB currently is the same coach he was in Cleveland. An average coach with limited talent. Too soon?? He abused the Bills.. wasn’t real humble, got all the calls including the tuck. So he’s bad and so is his team.

 

I hope Kraft ( who suddenly isn’t getting shown 20 times a game) hangs on to him. They are not good and getting worse. Hope he coaches for 5 more years🤷🏻‍♂️

Mac is dreadful. Shanny the arrogant got lucky with Purdy. Let’s wait before we anoint him as Montana. Shanny is not able to win the big game. 

Mac Jones and Trey Lance have, or have been thought to have, different skill sets. Mac Jones and Brock Purdy have pretty much the same skill set. They both have average arms, are good but not great athletes, are accurate, are good at reading defences, going through their progressions and making good quick decisions. Purdy is still better than Mac but the difference in outcomes is largely due to what they have to work with and what they are asked to do.  Kyle says he came within a whisker of drafting Mac at the top of the draft. Sure he's terrible in NE. I think he'd have had a much better career so far in San Fran and should be able to do a lot of what Purdy has done. This is also why I say I hope that whatever teams drafts Maye or Williams they know how to develop them and put them in a position to succeed.

Not comparing Purdy to Montana but he has the skills to be very successful in Shanny's offence and I don't think that's going to change.

[PBF81]

57 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I’m not sure what your point is. 
 

Here is mine: BB did a great job building a team around a top tier QB. 
 

He is the best in-game head coach in the history of the game. 
 

He knows the rules better than anyone on the planet. 
 

And he led the teams that he built to six championships. 
 

There’s really no choice but to admire and respect a résumé like that. 

 

BB has only done it with Brady, never with any other QB on the surrounding teams (aka Bledsoe and Cassel in adjoining seasons), and had been miserably poor in ten other seasons overall without Brady, while Brady has gone on to duplicate it under, at the age of 43 even, Bruce Arians. 

 

10 other seasons, two playoff appearances, 1-2 in them with his only victory over the Bledsoe leg Pats, ironically, getting hammered in the other two, never advancing past the divisional round.   There's absolutely nothing but extremely mediocre to abysmal performance there, argue as anyone may.  

 

And this season, ... LOL

 

Hope that clears things up.  🙂

 

 

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

BB has only done it with Brady, never with any other QB on the surrounding teams (aka Bledsoe and Cassel in adjoining seasons), and had been miserably poor in ten other seasons overall without Brady, while Brady has gone on to duplicate it under, at the age of 43 even, Bruce Arians. 

 

10 other seasons, two playoff appearances, 1-2 in them with his only victory over the Bledsoe leg Pats, ironically, getting hammered in the other two, never advancing past the divisional round.   There's absolutely nothing but extremely mediocre to abysmal performance there, argue as anyone may.  

 

And this season, ... LOL

 

Hope that clears things up.  🙂

 

 

Let’s compare Bill Belichick (GM and HC)  with Brady in his first 5 seasons as a starter vs. McDermott and Beane with Allen for his first five seasons. 
 

Three Super Bowls - three rings. 

vs. 

 

One AFCCG appearance. 

 

Hope that clears things up. 😘

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

His defenses got worse over time and he's supposed to be a defensive guru. 

 

They won very few playoff games because of their defense after Brady's early seasons. 

 

 

I’d argue their defense played a large part in the Falcons comeback and the Rams Superbowls. 

[PBF81]

56 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’d argue their defense played a large part in the Falcons comeback and the Rams Superbowls. 

 

On the former, sure, it's arguable, but I'd argue that it was more Brady's 466 passing yards and NE's 546 total yards that was responsible for the win, and not the Pats' defense which allowed the Pats to get into a 21-0 hole to start the game.  

 

As to the latter, sure, there's always a single data point in myriad of contrary examples.  

 

Kind of like using the fact that we only allowed the Ravens to score 3 points in our divisional playoff game in 2020 as a basis for the suggestion that our defense has been anything but bad in the playoffs allowing an average of 30 points, 25 1st-Downs, and 402 yards of offense in the other 6 games.  ... which includes having held the offensively bereft Patriots to 17 points in '21.  

 

 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I’d argue their defense played a large part in the Falcons comeback and the Rams Superbowls. 

And their last SB against the Rams was 13-3.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Let’s compare Bill Belichick (GM and HC)  with Brady in his first 5 seasons as a starter vs. McDermott and Beane with Allen for his first five seasons. 
 

Three Super Bowls - three rings. 

vs. 

 

One AFCCG appearance. 

 

Hope that clears things up. 😘

 

Great!  Let's move on from McD then.  

 

Otherwise, I'll defer to a 10-season career with some notable QBs BTW, Testeverde among them,

with a .467 winning %,

78-89 record,

1-2 in the playoffs with two combined losses tallying 76-26, an average loss of 38-13,

only three winning seasons in 10,

two playoff appearances in those 10 seasons,

and never a division win.  

 

Yeah, couldn't have been Brady who took Arians, an underachieving coach that had a single divisional round playoff win, to his only notable postseason play in his career with a Super Bowl win in his first season with Arians now, could it be.   

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

Great!  Let's move on from McD then.  

 

Otherwise, I'll defer to a 10-season career with some notable QBs BTW, Testeverde among them,

with a .467 winning %,

78-89 record,

1-2 in the playoffs with two combined losses tallying 76-26, an average loss of 38-13,

only three winning seasons in 10,

two playoff appearances in those 10 seasons,

and never a division win.  

 

Yeah, couldn't have been Brady who took Arians, an underachieving coach that had a single divisional round playoff win, to his only notable postseason play in his career with a Super Bowl win in his first season with Arians now, could it be. 

 

The Bills are definitely worse at cheating...

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills are definitely worse at cheating...

 

LOL

 

Which raises questions as to whether BB cheated in those Brady-less seasons.  That would be even more damning.  

 

 

[Watkins101]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:31 AM, uninja said:

You honestly think that BB would willingly tank a season to set up his kid and not chase the all time wins record from George Halas? BB has 299 wins and needs 20 more to beat the record. He's gunning for it and you better believe it.

Maybe he doesn’t think he can get there between this season and next as is, and with Kraft’s approval is throwing this season to get an actual Qb, instead of being mediocre this season and next and subsequently losing his job. 

[PatsFanNH]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:35 AM, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

They were a middling roster then they had a bunch of injuries.  Idk that they’re tanking I think they’re just that bad talent wise at this point 

 

Deciding to tank in the midst of the season is pretty tough cuz the players are all playing for future contracts. 

Agreed! It really hurt on Defense we lost our #2 CB Jones today so now they have JC Jackson and our 5th CB. Then add in losing Judon, and our pass rush is not that good anymore.  
 

Them there is the O which has not had the starting 5 O lineman play 1 full game together.. not 1. 
 

So while Mac looks gawd awful and I’d love get a shiny new QB who suppose to be good I’d be happy with Hairston JR or heck a nice competent OT. 

[MJS]

What has Belichick ever done besides show that he is an average coach without Tom Brady?

 

Even if he was a good coach, the game has passed him by. He is a fossil from a previous era of football.

[sonyab1974]

TOUCHDOWN!!! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

[Bookie Man]

Of course Mac Jones takes a safety bc I had Pats +3.