I’m kind of Over the Hines Experiment

[Mr. WEO]

I was working.  Missed most of the game?

 

Did he explode?

[ElMarko]

55 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I think one of the things that makes Hines continue to feel intriguing is that Cook still really hasn't looked like a good ballcarrier yet.

He's a better passcatcher than Motor but unless he has a gaping hole even front of him, he cant get into the second level.

Hines is probably even a better ballcatcher than Cook and if he can run into the 4 and 6 hole he might be a better option than the rookie right now

Cook is averaging over 5.5 yards per carry. You’re obviously incorrect. 

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, ElMarko said:

Cook is averaging over 5.5 yards per carry. You’re obviously incorrect. 

 

Averages are not a basis.  They were used different times in different situations/

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

2 hours ago, Big C said:

I mean this guy has never been an elite player. Decent pass catcher and injury fill-in like McKissic, Perine, etc. He is actually a very good returner and we have seen that so far. NE also plays good teams year in and year out so today doesn’t count. 
 

We traded a 6th and an incredibly unproductive RB for him, what did we think we were getting? He will have a role and make some plays but we are still figuring out what we can do with him. We have barely practiced with him. 
 

Instead, why don’t we focus on how much better Cook has been and how we now have the luxury of a Hines as RB3.

 

If this guy was with Brady he'd be lighting teams up, this guy is a pass catching specialist and I really hope they start utilizing him because he has the jets to take it to the house on any given play. I hear all the time that Josh Allen misses Beasley in the slot. No reason both he and McKenzie can't become another security blanket.

[Kwai San]

2 hours ago, Nelius said:

Exactly how I feel. Although his returns today were pretty lame compared to previous. Still feels potentially more successful than the Jamison Crowder experiment.

 

All boiled down to a crappy punter.....short kicks with good coverage by man with long hair rage!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Idk about ya’ll but I was excited about the additional of Nyheim Hines.

 

It seems they’ve slowly, and finally started to work him into the game plan. He was heavily involved early, and then McKenzie started to take over those snaps.

 

It seemed like every sweep, handoff, or target was sniffed out, or went no where. I wonder if there was some sort of formation tell, or they keyed into him based on personnel or usage, but it just flat out stunk.

 

I’m not a huge McKenzie guy, but age again had a solid game. 
 

Im kind of over this trade. Let him return kicks and get touches here and there, and revisit this in the off-season.

 

Singletary is my guy. Let’s let him and Cook take it the rest of the way. 

 

He's a solid returner. It's not like he's useless. Don't be so quick to abandon him. He's been with the Bills for what? Three weeks?

[Rat-boy]

27 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He's a solid returner. It's not like he's useless. Don't be so quick to abandon him. He's been with the Bills for what? Three weeks?

C’mon PTR. You know way better than to bring a rational take to this board. Don’t mention the fact that half that time they didn’t practise enough to install him in the offense. It’ll bring the “we won but we really lost” trolls out.

 

I really miss Hogboy.

[Richard Noggin]

Locked up for 2 more seasons after 2022 at reasonable cap figures? I'd say there's room for patience, especially with Singletary, who can't catch, entering FA after the year.

[davefan66]

I like that I don’t have to hold my breath on returns.  Dude is dependable on making the right decision and handles the ball well.  Has shown an ability to get yards on punts and KO’s.

 

Can’t blame him for the runs to the left. I don’t know if it was poor design, players missed assignments, or bad design.  Probably some of all of the above.  Dude has speed and would like to see him get the ball more than a few times in a game before saying he can’t run.  A couple of runs in a game doesn’t given RB enough to get a feel.  
 

End all is, Singletary may be a cap casualty next year.  If so, Hines is going nowhere.  Especially because he does what this team covets - multiple roles.

[billieve420]

Even if he doesn’t end up doing much on offense this year. Having him return kicks is a huge improvement. I personally would like him to split out wide more and be used as check down option for Josh. Cook while athletic seems very uncoordinated and scares me running pass routes out there.

[GunnerBill]

I certainly don't want him running the ball. He is not as good as our other two backs. Equally I don't really want us throwing it to old stone hands Singletary so there may still be some snaps for him. 

 

He has been solid as a return guy.

[Shortchaz]

If the last few games didn’t spell it out clearly enough, they’re ramping up the running game (especially the usage of cook) for the playoffs. It’s going to be cook/singletary, with Hines being the backup in case either go down. Cook is going to play a major role in this team’s success/failure in the postseason. 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I certainly don't want him running the ball. He is not as good as our other two backs. Equally I don't really want us throwing it to old stone hands Singletary so there may still be some snaps for him. 

 

He has been solid as a return guy.

 

Singletary has caught 31 of 40 passes. 77.5% catch rate. How is that Stone hands?

I think that is top 3 on the team.

 

13 of those 31 receptions have gone for 1st downs. (41%)

The avg is 6.9 yards per catch, not mind blowing, but still solid.

 

No one will argue he is Thurman Thomas or Marshall Faulk, but 'stone hands'?

 

This is such an odd place after a win.

[artmalibu]

I thought I saw 1 play last night with Hines and cook in the backfield, could be some interesting wrinkles down the road...

[LyndonvilleBill]

I don't think he is an experiment.  I think he is being used exactly how they planned. Took McKenzie and Shakir off KR/PR duties so they could focus on playing WR. Backup RB and available if needed.  Gets a few plays on O and can also backup McKenzie on some of the gadget plays. Could also be a chess piece when it comes to negotiating with Motor.🤔. Maybe I'm just more of a Glass Half Full kind of guy.😉

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Singletary has caught 31 of 40 passes. 77.5% catch rate. How is that Stone hands?

I think that is top 3 on the team.

 

13 of those 31 receptions have gone for 1st downs. (41%)

The avg is 6.9 yards per catch, not mind blowing, but still solid.

 

No one will argue he is Thurman Thomas or Marshall Faulk, but 'stone hands'?

 

This is such an odd place after a win.

 

He dropped two last night. He has, otherwise, been better as a pass catcher recently. But man he has some stupid concentration drops. 

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, Malazan said:

This forum needs a "Are you ok, like emotionally?" emote. 

Indeed. I recommend using @Gugny’s avatar to imply it. He’s the reigning champ at that. Just pop in the Mets mascot will get the message across.

[Captain Hindsight]

I miss having the threads about who to trade Zach Moss and a 5th for. What an amazing time to be alive!

[Rc2catch]

I think there’s more coming for Hines. They tried to get him more involved but New England blew up his couple designed plays. 
They’ve been running this formation for a couple weeks with cook in the backfield and Hines in motion. It’s been a run to cook almost every time (I think Allen kept a couple) and it’s been successful gains. I’m sure there’s more to it once defenses sell out to stop the runs.

[wjag]

7 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Im kind of over this trade. Let him return kicks and get touches here and there, and revisit this in the off-season.

 

 

 

All I know is I used to hold my breath on every punt.  Now I don't worry no more.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I don’t think there was an experiment. A team in their SB window can give up a late draft pick for a good PR/KR.

[RocCityRoller]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He dropped two last night. He has, otherwise, been better as a pass catcher recently. But man he has some stupid concentration drops. 

 

I am no Singletary apologist. I don't think he is a RB#1. Never have. But he may be the best RB#2 in the league outside of Tony Pollard.

Problem is he is the Bills #1 RB. But he has been a much better receiver than anyone thought.

 

Recency bias is strong here.

Singletary is a solid receiving back.

 

Receiving catch percentage:

2019: 70.7%

2020: 76.0%

2021: 83.6%

2022: 73.8%

 

Not seeing 'stone hands' anywhere TBH.

[nucci]

They ran 2 sweeps with no blockers in front of him. He's not being used correctly. He's a better receiver . They need to use him as one

[The Firebaugh Kid]

They ran twice left, looked like the same exact play, both for losses. Not his fault Dingleberry can't set the edge. 

[GolfandBills]

I’m just excited we have a returner I don’t have to peak through my fingers to watch.   They’ll figure out how to get him more involved in offense not worried about it 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Idk about ya’ll but I was excited about the additional of Nyheim Hines.

It seems they’ve slowly, and finally started to work him into the game plan. He was heavily involved early, and then McKenzie started to take over those snaps.

 

I don't think that's right (on the snaps).  McKenzie was on the field from the start.  He had 3 receptions in the first half, on the Bills 2nd TD drive.

 

But as for the being "over" the Hines "experiment", the problem isn't Hines - it's you (and other fans of similar viewpoint).  Fans here had unrealistic expectations, as though Hines were some kind of budget CMC who should have had the coaches working overtime to carve out a prominent role in the game plan for him immediately.

 

8 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Im kind of over this trade. Let him return kicks and get touches here and there, and revisit this in the off-season.

 

Yes, exactly, now you get it.

 

Hines has shown he was a savvy acquisition for Moss and a 6th round pick, by taking over the PR and KR duties and making punts to us much calmer.  Shakir was a big adventure, and with Crowder on IR the depth chart at PR was Shakir and then who?

 

He's opened an aspect of the playbook, where Dorsey is now running 2 back sets with Hines and Cook.  I'm sure that week by week, they'll improve play designs and figure out more ways to work him in.  He's competition as the pass catching RB, and he's depth at RB and slot.

 

You should not be "over" the trade, and Hines contributions will likely continue to grow, but you should ask yourself why you expected more from a guy who was  the #4 RB and #5 WR on the Ponys list.  If people were carrying on as though he were the second coming of Thurman Thomas and are now disappointed that he's making significant but not amazeballs contributions, that's really their problem, not a flaw in the trade.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I am no Singletary apologist. I don't think he is a RB#1. Never have. But he may be the best RB#2 in the league outside of Tony Pollard.

Problem is he is the Bills #1 RB. But he has been a much better receiver than anyone thought.

 

Recency bias is strong here.

Singletary is a solid receiving back.

 

Receiving catch percentage:

2019: 70.7%

2020: 76.0%

2021: 83.6%

2022: 73.8%

 

Not seeing 'stone hands' anywhere TBH.

 

Meh. He drops too many simple catches. He was better last year, so not surprised the numbers confirm that.

[KDIGGZ]

I told you guys Hines wasn't a good RB and I also made the bold prediction that Moss was going to have more rushing yards this season and I got about 10 eye rolls and X's in one of my most unpopular posts which says a lot because I'm usually on the opposite side of whatever the popular opinion is on this board.

 

Moss - 4 carries for 13 yards

Hines - 4 carries for -8 yards

[zow2]

The two Hines runs last night were so poorly executed.  The guy is actually fast but as soon as he took the handoff left, Patriots guys were already there waiting for him.  Dorsey has to scheme some passes to him in space.  They did it with Cook a couple times.  Those runs to the left were awful.

Edited December 2, 2022 by zow2

[Ramza86]

At the very least I feel good about him securing punts.

 

[AmishRifle]

The Athletic article post game by Joe Buscaglia goes in depth on Hines and Cook.  Excerpt below:

 

“3. The Cook and Hines package returns with a vengeance

Against the Browns in Week 11, the Bills flashed a personnel package including both Cook and Nyheim Hinesas a means to put pressure on the defense in different ways. They did it on a handful of snaps, but it wasn’t a heavy piece of their game plan. Then against the Lions in Week 12, the Bills mostly went away from that personnel grouping, and Hines himself as the back had only four snaps total. But offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey may have been keeping it in his back pocket for the Patriots game, as they used Cook and Hines on the field together a whopping 12 times throughout the game. While it doesn’t seem like a lot, that’s far more two-running back sets than the Bills had ever run previously. The Bills effectively used Hines in a similar way Brian Daboll used Isaiah McKenzie as a gadget receiver several years ago. And despite some plays that were duds, it was highly productive with some chunk plays. The Bills gained 78 yards on those 12 plays, for an average of 6.5 yards each time. Considering the Bills only averaged 4.6 yards per play on their other 60 plays, that Cook and Hines group gave them a major edge as it was sprinkled in throughout the game.“

 

As other posters have said, it’s about matchups!!  Hines was a great add!!

[JoPoy88]

9 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Idk about ya’ll but I was excited about the additional of Nyheim Hines.

 

It seems they’ve slowly, and finally started to work him into the game plan. He was heavily involved early, and then McKenzie started to take over those snaps.

 

It seemed like every sweep, handoff, or target was sniffed out, or went no where. I wonder if there was some sort of formation tell, or they keyed into him based on personnel or usage, but it just flat out stunk.

 

I’m not a huge McKenzie guy, but age again had a solid game. 
 

Im kind of over this trade. Let him return kicks and get touches here and there, and revisit this in the off-season.

 

Singletary is my guy. Let’s let him and Cook take it the rest of the way. 

i’m kinda over everything you say here. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’ll say this he is very explosive in the return game and that could be huge down the stretch. 

[BRH]

I think we haven't even begun to see how he'll really be used, and that we're setting up some things on film to distract potential playoff opponents.  You'll know it when you see it.

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think one of the things that makes Hines continue to feel intriguing is that Cook still really hasn't looked like a good ballcarrier yet.

He's a better passcatcher than Motor but unless he has a gaping hole even front of him, he cant get into the second level.

Hines is probably even a better ballcatcher than Cook and if he can run into the 4 and 6 hole he might be a better option than the rookie right now

 

 

Fair enough, but they don't usually run guys much in both STs and offense. It's usually one or the other with maybe a dabble here or there on the other.

 

Perhaps they might take him off STs, or perhaps he'll be an exception to their trend. I personally wouldn't bet on it, though.

[Antonio]

9 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

Just wait until we play a good defense in the divisional round at high mark stadium. We will be throwing him screens left and right. He is our secret weapon 

 

We can not run a screen play to save our lives hahaha

 

Honestly, I don´t know why but we seem to be the only team in the league that can´t run a screen. Is it Allen? Is it our OL? Maybe our backs? Don´t know but JIZZZZ!

[TN Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Idk about ya’ll but I was excited about the additional of Nyheim Hines.

 

It seems they’ve slowly, and finally started to work him into the game plan. He was heavily involved early, and then McKenzie started to take over those snaps.

 

It seemed like every sweep, handoff, or target was sniffed out, or went no where. I wonder if there was some sort of formation tell, or they keyed into him based on personnel or usage, but it just flat out stunk.

 

I’m not a huge McKenzie guy, but age again had a solid game. 
 

Im kind of over this trade. Let him return kicks and get touches here and there, and revisit this in the off-season.

 

Singletary is my guy. Let’s let him and Cook take it the rest of the way. 

He has speed but doesnt attack the hole.  Punt returner nothing more.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Antonio said:

 

We can not run a screen play to save our lives hahaha

 

Honestly, I don´t know why but we seem to be the only team in the league that can´t run a screen. Is it Allen? Is it our OL? Maybe our backs? Don´t know but JIZZZZ!

 

Most of our opponents defensive ends are trying to prevent scrambling (depending on if they're containing, spying etc.).  When you aren't pushing as far up field, its harder to drop a screen in behind them.  

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

They ran 2 sweeps with no blockers in front of him. He's not being used correctly. He's a better receiver . They need to use him as one

Exactly....wheel routes, screens, dump offs etc. All his runs last night had zero blocking. He is being poorly used.

[DrDawkinstein]

They need to be using him in some of the spots they have McKenzie.

 

Instead of giving Hines slow-developing delayed handoffs, hit him on a bubble-screen. Just like the Pats did with Jones, and the one we threw to McK.

 

Get him out in space.