Deshaun Watson better than Allen?

[george c]

Keyshawn?

LOL

[TheBrownBear]

Keyshawn is a grade A idiot, so it doesn't surprise.  His take says nothing about Josh and everything about Keyshawn.

[Magox]

Keyshawn has always been an Allen hater.  His ego won't let him turn on his view of him, he's just being a hard head about it.

[Clyde Smith]

Keyshawn still hate on the Bills, even after not playing for the Jets like six decades ago.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

The lack of intellectual curiosity that can be found in the ranks of sports talk “analysts” is rather breathtaking. Keyshawn is Exhibit A today. 

[Don Otreply]

Not any more…, 

[Shake_My_Head]

OP, you realize that 'controversial' hot takes are the only thing NFL news and enetertainment programs have to offer right now, other than ONE MILLION! mock drafts? Right?

[NewEra]

90% of the responses in this thread.

 

Keyshawn…..we talking about Keyshawn.  We not talking about a real analyst, nah, we talking about Keyshawn

[Patrick Duffy]

54 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

it is interesting that every professional stadium in houston has a dome. astrodome, minute maid and reliant. never paid much attention to reliant, but looked it up and it is a fabric retractable roof. saw an article from 2019 or 2020 saying they were opening it up for first time in 6 years. opens in 6 minutes!  i guess they like to keep it shut for crowd noise, not weather. 

Maybe so, not sure if it's enough difference in crowd noise either way, but Atlanta is another dome that mainly has decent weather. I don't know, you're probably right about the crowd noise though. If it's a enough of a difference in being louder it would make sense.

[Success]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

#1. Brady is still Brady, even at 45 until we see him fall off

#2. Rodgers still does everything he did 10 years ago

#3. Mahomes I give the slightest of edges to over Allen. That's likely to be a different view after the upcoming season with no Tyreek Hill. 

#4. Allen, who is still climbing this list and hasn't even reached his full potential yet. 

#5. Burrow is exactly who they drafted him to be and will continue to grow. 

#6. Herbert is well on his way also. 

#7. Lamar Jackson. Despite his inconsistencies, he's still a bigger threat than anyone else below him. 

#8. Matt Stafford. LA traded for him and they win the SB. His numbers speak for themselves. 

#9. Deshaun Watson belongs here. 

 

This list is more in line w/ how I view it. I kind of think that Brady & Rogers go 1/2 just out of experience, and deference - but in a way, I think you could flip them w/ Mahomes and Allen.  Objectively, if I'm going into a season, I'd want the younger guys.

 

As for who is better between Mahomes & Allen - I feel like most give Mahomes the nod because of the ring, which is very fair.  But I'd still take Allen.

 

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, CSBill said:

 
That’s just being stupid for stupid’s sake.

 

Further evidence of why I do not watch or listen to anything he is on. 

 

That's being smart for attention's sake. Look at how much he's getting. 

[Rico]

Watson was better than Josh in college, but that's about it, he can't touch him now.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Rico

[Mr. WEO]

Keyshawn was banging the table HARD for Cam Newton last off season for obvious reasons.  Same for Watson, who's had one very good season.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

 

#1. Brady is still Brady, even at 45 until we see him fall off

#2. Rodgers still does everything he did 10 years ago

#3. Mahomes I give the slightest of edges to over Allen. That's likely to be a different view after the upcoming season with no Tyreek Hill. 

 

***** Tom Brady and his cheating medically enhanced ways. 

 

Whiner A-ARon plays it safe and doesn’t make the tougher passes.  What will he do w/o a ⭐️ WR.  
 

Mahomes No Look pass faded away. No Tyreek Hill will be interesting to see.  
 

/rant.  

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

***** Tom Brady and his cheating medically enhanced ways. 

 

Whiner A-ARon plays it safe and doesn’t make the tougher passes.  What will he do w/o a ⭐️ WR.  
 

Mahomes No Look pass faded away. No Tyreek Hill will be interesting to see.  
 

/rant.  

 

Josh is better than Rodgers right now. 

[UKBillFan]

Despite their undoubted quality and success I would expect most franchise, given the chance, would take the likes of Josh, Mahomes, Burrow and Herbert now over Brady and Rogers. The Bucs and the Packers will have to plan for the future at QB very soon; all being well the Chiefs, Bengals, Chargers and ourselves will not.

 

All Josh needs now is consistency. He’s the best quarterback in the league when looking at how he played against the Chiefs. Then look at the games against the Jaguars and the Colts for example… But there is no question he’s getting there and he should be in the top five QBs without question.

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yes, I respect that. I'm just curious what you see to think that because I can't find anything at all. Or maybe you're yanking my chain? Lol...there isn't any QB I can think off top of my head other than Lamar running the ball that can top those amazing plays we have seen Allen from his rookie year til most recent season. 

 

Did you confuse Watson with Lamar maybe?

Look, let's back up.  This thread started being about who are the best QBs, and most people are talking about that question.   That's what I was responding to when I started talking about Watson.   From his rookie season, I've looked at Watson as an elite QB in the making.  He's an elite thrower (third on the career passer rating list, behind Mahomes and Rodgers), and he's an outstanding runner when compared with the other elite throwers.  Russell Wilson, Brees, Prescott, Cousins, Brady, Romo, Young, Manning, Rivers are the next names on the passer rating list, and NONE of them were or are runners anything like Watson. 

 

We'll see how he looks after a year and a half and playing once again for a franchise that has questionable management, but he is a special guy. 

 

And he runs his team very well.   He's good in the huddle, a good leader.  

 

In particular to running, I've always liked him as runner.  Savvy, good speed, opportunistic.  To compare him to Allen, they have comparable speed, Allen has clearly better power, Watson has better change of direction.  Allen is surprisingly agile, but he doesn't change direction like Watson does.  

 

So, I'll say again, when someone asks me who's the better runner, my opinion is that Watson is a better runner.   Maybe I'm wrong, and my view is that they're close enough that I don't see the point in discussing it very long.  There are about 25 teams that wish they had someone who can run like those two.  

 

And, no, I wasn't thinking of Jackson.  Jackson's a better runner than either Watson or Allen, but if I had Lamar Jackson as my starting QB, I'd be looking for a new QB.  To utilize his talents, his team has to reshape it's offense in ways that make it less than an optimal offense, and there's no way to fix that.   I think five years from people will be talking about Allen and Watson like they talked about Manning and Brady ten years ago, and Jackson will not be in the conversation.

[Doc]

Am I misremembering or did someone do an analysis of Watson's last season playing and found that a good portion of his yards and TDs came in garbage time, since his defense was so bad?

[Patrick Duffy]

24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Look, let's back up.  This thread started being about who are the best QBs, and most people are talking about that question.   That's what I was responding to when I started talking about Watson.   From his rookie season, I've looked at Watson as an elite QB in the making.  He's an elite thrower (third on the career passer rating list, behind Mahomes and Rodgers), and he's an outstanding runner when compared with the other elite throwers.  Russell Wilson, Brees, Prescott, Cousins, Brady, Romo, Young, Manning, Rivers are the next names on the passer rating list, and NONE of them were or are runners anything like Watson. 

 

We'll see how he looks after a year and a half and playing once again for a franchise that has questionable management, but he is a special guy. 

 

And he runs his team very well.   He's good in the huddle, a good leader.  

 

In particular to running, I've always liked him as runner.  Savvy, good speed, opportunistic.  To compare him to Allen, they have comparable speed, Allen has clearly better power, Watson has better change of direction.  Allen is surprisingly agile, but he doesn't change direction like Watson does.  

 

So, I'll say again, when someone asks me who's the better runner, my opinion is that Watson is a better runner.   Maybe I'm wrong, and my view is that they're close enough that I don't see the point in discussing it very long.  There are about 25 teams that wish they had someone who can run like those two.  

 

And, no, I wasn't thinking of Jackson.  Jackson's a better runner than either Watson or Allen, but if I had Lamar Jackson as my starting QB, I'd be looking for a new QB.  To utilize his talents, his team has to reshape it's offense in ways that make it less than an optimal offense, and there's no way to fix that.   I think five years from people will be talking about Allen and Watson like they talked about Manning and Brady ten years ago, and Jackson will not be in the conversation.

Yeah I mean it's no need to go back through all that. I pretty much agree everything else you stated other than Watson is better running the ball. Again, I'm not saying he isn't a good runner, but Allen is just amazing with some of the things he does running. They both get good yardage when running, but Allen is better making players miss.

 

 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

ESPN?

my first take is to turn the channel 

 

BUT to the point 

D Watson was tearing it up in HOU until he got his ribs crushed 

 

 

he just wasn’t the same Stats wise after 

The question was "Who are the Top 5 QBs in the NFL NOW" ........  Watson hasn't played in over 16 months....He is NOT in the Top 5 NOW.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

If Keyshawn or Booger are talking, I try to be listening to something else. 

Like Phil Collins?

[MJS]

[Jerboski]

Laughable 

[Stank_Nasty]

So I guess I’m not as cool as everyone else in here and I actually don’t mind watching ESPN. I saw the segment. Personally I think the OP is twisting things a bit here to fit the disrespected narrative…. He leaves out the fact that the other 2 debaters on the show looked at him like he was absolutely crazy. 
 

I’ll admit I’ve been guilty up to this year of being an overly sensitive bills fan but I havnt seen much of anyone saying Allen isn’t at the very least a top 5 qb. Heck, even  Nick Wright said he may be the 2nd best qb in the league after his playoff run…. And literally nobody has doubled down on Allen slander as much as wright. 
 

 

 All this being said, for some odd reason Keyshawn has consistently gone out of his way to put Allen down. In 2020 he called him just the “flavor of the month” going into the playoffs and then by mid season this last year he doubled down on that saying he still hadn’t seen enough. He’s an imbecile 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Stank_Nasty

[klos63]

8 hours ago, Success said:

Did anyone see that heated debate on First Take just now? They were debating if Allen is a top 5 QB in the league.  Keyshawn had him behind Brady, Rogers, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert & Watson.

 

I actually have issues w/ all of those names being ranked ahead of Allen.  I get the deference for Brady, but would anyone really want him over Allen RIGHT NOW?  Rogers I can understand more.  Herbert has done nothing in the league.  Burrow looks to be very good, but hasn't shown nearly the versatility & clutch play that Allen has (imo).

 

But Watson?

 

I don't really get it - not just Keyshawn's take, but a still fairly large group of pundits who can't seem to break away from what they thought of Allen in the draft, or his rookie season.  I get that it's not that important, and in general, prefer it when the Bills are disrespected, but it just seems like I'm living on a different planet than some of these guys.

 

EDIT:  he also had Mahomes ahead of Allen (which is one I completely get, though I think is closer than most)

Not to get too deep into this discussion, but Herbert has had 2 tremendous season, Burrow is also a dynamic QB, no reason to criticize them to build up Allen.  Quite a few very good QB's in the league right now, many capable of winning a Super Bowl.

[bourbonboy]

Just the fact that this is an 8-page thread, arguing that Josh is disrespected by being ranked 6th........which I get, he should be higher.....but as of even two years ago, if anyone told me we would have a bonafide top 6 QB, I woulda been buying rounds. Just saying. Awesome thing to argue!

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Not to get too deep into this discussion, but Herbert has had 2 tremendous season, Burrow is also a dynamic QB, no reason to criticize them to build up Allen.  Quite a few very good QB's in the league right now, many capable of winning a Super Bowl.

Definitely agree. No question there's more talented QB's now than it maybe ever has been.

 

But if you could choose just 1 to lead your offense final drive needing a score to win, which would you pick?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Its all so subjective, but outside of my fandom, I'd try to put together an objective list that looks like:

 

Brady

Rodgers

Mahomes

Allen

Burrow

 

The first 3 all have SB victories, so they have an advantage. I've seen lists that have Allen #3 behind Brady and Rodgers.

 

Allen #1 after this season tho.

 

I think that’s a reasonable list.  

 

Herbert and Watson are both good QB but Herbert its “prove it” and Watson is “show you still got it” after a full year away.

[Captain Hindsight]

18 minutes ago, bourbonboy said:

Just the fact that this is an 8-page thread, arguing that Josh is disrespected by being ranked 6th........which I get, he should be higher.....but as of even two years ago, if anyone told me we would have a bonafide top 6 QB, I woulda been buying rounds. Just saying. Awesome thing to argue!

You can still buy those rounds if you’d like

[GoBills808]

It’s going to take time for some folks to accept Allen as the best in the game

 

have patience

[BarleyNY]

Keyshawn:

[SCBills]

Get this trash topic off the main board 

 

::instantly realizes posting this bumps it back up::

[Ross Murdock]

The ONLY area that Watson gets the edge over Allen, is that the obviously perverse Watson is better at getting happy endings at the local message parlor. It's unlikely that Watson plays much this year anyway. I think it's generally a tossup between Mahomes - Herbert - and Josh. I think Mahomes is the best well rounded player, but here in Buffalo with the conditions, I'd take Josh hands down.    

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Herbert hasn’t shown the ability yet to make something out of nothing. He is not athletic enough nor powerful enough to extend plays like Allen does. Just wait if our line is better from week one on, what Allen will do…there will be no more jax games. He will be unstoppable. Just wanted to add that no QB is nfl history has had protection like Tom Brady. It was ridiculous how well he was protected.

I agree with what you have to say.  Regardless of circumstance, Brady has been nothing short of amazing.  I still don’t like home, but show the man some respect. 
 

I agree completely on Herbert, he’s got the tools and had the flashes than got us all intrigued with JA.  He may not be quite as athletic, but we are splitting hairs on it all., they are top 7 picks in the NFL, they are freaks.   Herbert is far better than I realized from his college days, he came in with far better coaching than Allen, he may be further along in development and maybe he hits a plateau, but at this point he’s the closest thing to Allen there is.  Nothing against him, I just hope he suck’s against the Bills for the next 20 years.

[cle23]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

One of these guys had the comforts of a dome and a game in Jacksonville every year - and walked in as a rookie with Nuke Hopkins on the team.

 

The other guy is a winner and his win/loss record and total yards blows the loser and sexual predator away.  

 

To be fair, one has played 7 more games as well, and on a better team.

Edited April 13, 2022 by cle23

[klos63]

51 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I agree with what you have to say.  Regardless of circumstance, Brady has been nothing short of amazing.  I still don’t like home, but show the man some respect. 
 

I agree completely on Herbert, he’s got the tools and had the flashes than got us all intrigued with JA.  He may not be quite as athletic, but we are splitting hairs on it all., they are top 7 picks in the NFL, they are freaks.   Herbert is far better than I realized from his college days, he came in with far better coaching than Allen, he may be further along in development and maybe he hits a plateau, but at this point he’s the closest thing to Allen there is.  Nothing against him, I just hope he suck’s against the Bills for the next 20 years.

The Week 18 game vs the Raiders was as exciting as the Bills/Chiefs game. Herbert was amazing, 4th and 21 with the season on the line and makes the throw. He's got that special something that Allen has. Those 2 will be the best in the AFC with Burrow for years to come.

[Behindenemylines]

Keyshawn is Watson’s pre-massage fluffer 

 

 

[Man with No Name]

7 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yeah I mean it's no need to go back through all that. I pretty much agree everything else you stated other than Watson is better running the ball. Again, I'm not saying he isn't a good runner, but Allen is just amazing with some of the things he does running. They both get good yardage when running, but Allen is better making players miss.

 

 

yes. the proof is in the pudding. if the eye test doesn't work for you, take a look at the numbers. Whether it be speed, cutting, vision, or desire; Josh produces at a higher level. 

[CSBill]

9 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

That's being smart for attention's sake. Look at how much he's getting. 

 

As I said: "Further evidence of why I do not watch or listen to anything he is on."

[njbuff]

You have to be a raging alcoholic to think that Watson is better than Allen.