Does the bills success continue without daboll?

[Steptide]

I would like to think Josh and the offense have come far enough, that they arnt relying solely on daboll when the offense is running smooth and winning. I think all of us here want daboll back next year, but it's gonna be awfully tough to keep him unless the Pegulas make him a ridiculous offer. 

 

Having said that, I worry if he leaves. I can think of 2 major examples of an oc leaving a team for a hc position, only to have that team fall apart. The 2016 falcons who made it to the superbowl and lost their oc to the 9ers and the 2018 eagles who lost their oc to the Colts only to become terrible. I'm sure there are many more examples, but those just come to mind in recent years 

 

I know McDermott has built a new culture and team since he came here, so my hope is that whichever oc steps in, can pick up right where daboll left off

 

 

[Doc Brown]

It's difficult to tell.  Ken Dorsey seems like the logical choice to keep the scheme in place but it's nerve wracking because he doesn't have a history of calling plays.  Bills changed offensive coordinators during the Kelly years and they still thrived if it makes you feel any better.  Brady's had many different offensive coordinators.

[BBills88]

If they do what the Patriots did for TB, it would work. He basically had the same playbook throughout his career.

Edited January 7, 2021 by BBills88

[Charles Romes]

My view is that Josh would have made many OCs look good given the same opportunity that Daboll had. 

[Rc2catch]

There’s no way someone comes in here and tries to change what Allen is doing successfully this season. 
Atlanta went from shanahan to Sarkasian I think. That’s an extremely great run scheme to a bad pass offense. 
No way would we replace Daboll with a completely different philosophy. 
Allen knows what he likes, what’s been successful is on film, whoever would take over needs to add to that. 

[CaptnCoke11]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's difficult to tell.  Ken Dorsey seems like the logical choice to keep the scheme in place but it's nerve wracking because he doesn't have a history of calling plays.  Bills changed offensive coordinators during the Kelly years and they still thrived if it makes you feel any better.  Brady's had many different offensive coordinators.

I highly doubt Daboll will leave his playbook here.  Sure they’ll be able to keep some of the concepts but it will be a different offense whoever gets the job.  

[longtimebillsfan]

Why not let Josh start calling his own game?

[TBBills]

Yea b.c it's Josh that executes the plan.

[Magox]

Depends.  As long as Josh Allen plays the offense will always at the very least be pretty good even with a bad OC, but with a good OC the offense will be a juggernaut.   Just gotta make sure that we keep surrounding him with a good O line and weapons.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I think there may be a drop off. You can argue that Josh made Daboll look good. That’s probably partially true. 
 

But Daboll’s playcalling this year has just been superb. Unpredictable, aggressive, creative. It seems to change too week to week. His playcalling in the red zone in particular has been brilliant. 
 

Hopefully if Dorsey is the guy, he has learned enough to be able to call at least similar plays and similar games. (Though I also worry that Dorsey could go with Daboll— I don’t know how close they are). 

[CaliBills]

3 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Yea b.c it's Josh that executes the plan.

Agreed.

 

I think Josh is not some joe schmoe that doesn't understand x's and o's.  McDermott would hire either in house or someone that will keep the same offensive schemes while keeping a playbook similar to what they run now and evolve it and add wrinkles to enhance the strengths of the team.  

 

IE, the bills get a stud running back. They could incorporate different looks via i formation, or more Josh under center etc.

Josh is the steady variable in this equation, and now with his knowledge of defenses (both man and zone) he can have valid input in the schemes etc.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Play calling, play design and setting up plays is very strategic and when you find a guy that can do it well you don’t let them leave. 
 

When we lose Daboll I am expecting a drop in offensive production.

[JohnNord]

22 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I would like to think Josh and the offense have come far enough, that they arnt relying solely on daboll when the offense is running smooth and winning. I think all of us here want daboll back next year, but it's gonna be awfully tough to keep him unless the Pegulas make him a ridiculous offer. 

 

Having said that, I worry if he leaves. I can think of 2 major examples of an oc leaving a team for a hc position, only to have that team fall apart. The 2016 falcons who made it to the superbowl and lost their oc to the 9ers and the 2018 eagles who lost their oc to the Colts only to become terrible. I'm sure there are many more examples, but those just come to mind in recent years 

 

I know McDermott has built a new culture and team since he came here, so my hope is that whichever oc steps in, can pick up right where daboll left off

 

 

If this was 2019, I would be concerned because it seemed like Daboll consistently found a way to get WR’s open.  This year, I think Josh has taken some pretty big steps on his own.  
 

I don’t see Josh’s improvement as only being a bi-product of Daboll’s offense in the way that Sean McVay was responsible for improving Jared Goff.  I think Josh took a lot of those steps on his own.

 

With that being said, I’m not sure if we’ll see Josh duplicate the numbers this season in 2021.  But I also don’t see major regression either.

 

As far as OC, it will be an interesting choice.  You have internal candidates like Ken Dorsey or Chad Hall who probably would be good.  But McDermott might also get a lot of interest from coaches that want a chance to work with Allen, Diggs, Beasley, etc...

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I think Dorsey is possibly the logical choice if they stay in house. But Sal C made a good point on Wgr.
 

He mentioned that there would probably be a lineup of coaches who would love to come in here and coach Josh and this squad. They should have options. Mcd just needs to make sure he gets it right. 

[Beast]

25 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's difficult to tell.  Ken Dorsey seems like the logical choice to keep the scheme in place but it's nerve wracking because he doesn't have a history of calling plays.  Bills changed offensive coordinators during the Kelly years and they still thrived if it makes you feel any better.  Brady's had many different offensive coordinators.

 

What if Daboll and Dorsey are best buddies and Dorsey goes to serve as Daboll's OC?

[Malazan]

Does Daboll's success continue without Allen? 

 

My take, neither will quite as successful as they are together. Daboll has been OC before and never had this level of success. Having the talent the Bills do on offense allows you to do a lot more schematically than you would with less talent. 

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

What if Daboll and Dorsey are best buddies and Dorsey goes to serve as Daboll's OC?

Could happen but you'd think Dorsey would want to be an offensive coordinator with a head coach known for his defense.

[Penfield45]

Has Daboll ever had a top 10 offense as an OC before he had Allen? 
 

that should answer your question 

[die hard bills fan]

5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Does Daboll's success continue without Allen? 

 

My take, neither will quite as successful as they are together. Daboll has been OC before and never had this level of success. Having the talent the Bills do on offense allows you to do a lot more schematically than you would with less talent. 

Agree.  Daboll is an excellent play caller and  with Allen's talent Daboll can come up with schemes/plays that would not be available to him with a lesser QB.

How would he do with a qb with a weak arm who can't throw it down field or a statue who is not a running threat?

[Augie]

44 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's difficult to tell.  Ken Dorsey seems like the logical choice to keep the scheme in place but it's nerve wracking because he doesn't have a history of calling plays.  Bills changed offensive coordinators during the Kelly years and they still thrived if it makes you feel any better.  Brady's had many different offensive coordinators.

 

It felt to me like Kelly and Brady were the OC’s, but I get your point. 

 

One thing that makes me feel a little better is it’s not ALL scheme. Not all Daboll.  Josh has worked on his accuracy with amazing results. That’s not Daboll, for the most part. If Josh can hit them in stride to allow for YAC that’s a huge step forward. 

 

I trust McD and the FO to find the best possible replacement, if it comes to that. If we continue to light things up, it’s almost impossible not to lose Daboll. That, my friends, is the price of success. 

[Da webster guy]

Excellent question, the kind I like because we will eventually learn the answer.

 

The offense may get even better, as Josh and Daboll have at their jobs over the past few years.

 

Josh and Diggs are elite now, there arent any teams with a top qb and wr that don't score a lot of points, regardless of the OC.  When you throw in the supporting cast and depth of this team, I suspect we won't miss a beat without Daboll.

 

The NFL coaching ranks is littered with coordinators who had a great year, left for a HC job and were fired within three years or less.  Its far more likely to happen than not.

 

Daboll isn't a very charismatic guy either based on his interviews, that might be a liability when his teams needs an energetic, in-your-face motivator.  

 

 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I’m not a man of many words (strung together)

 

so let me just say. 
 

 

Yes 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I would like to think Josh and the offense have come far enough, that they arnt relying solely on daboll when the offense is running smooth and winning. I think all of us here want daboll back next year, but it's gonna be awfully tough to keep him unless the Pegulas make him a ridiculous offer. 

 

Having said that, I worry if he leaves. I can think of 2 major examples of an oc leaving a team for a hc position, only to have that team fall apart. The 2016 falcons who made it to the superbowl and lost their oc to the 9ers and the 2018 eagles who lost their oc to the Colts only to become terrible. I'm sure there are many more examples, but those just come to mind in recent years 

 

I know McDermott has built a new culture and team since he came here, so my hope is that whichever oc steps in, can pick up right where daboll left off

 

 

I'm gonna guess there are some pretty talented coordinators out there that would thrive with the weapons we have. Daboll is great at keeping the game simple most of the time, but shows enough variety and gadget plays to keep defenses off balance. I'm sure there are others that would utilize the talent we have. The main thing Daboll does that's so valuable is that we are rarely in difficult situations. He draws up simple, high percentage plays on 1st and 2nd down that help us avoid 3rd and longs. That's been critical. It'll suck when he leaves, but take your time and find the right coordinator. I wouldn't be too excited about Dorsey, having never called plays before. You need someone with experience in my opinion.

[MJS]

Yes. Because we have the QB and good leadership and coaching from McDermott and Beane.

 

Daboll, on the other hand, will only have success if he finds and develops a QB of his own, has a good GM to fill the pipeline with talent, and builds a good coaching staff of his own, including coordinators.

 

We know Daboll is good at play calling. We know he can help develop a QB. But we don't know if he can do anything else required of a head coach.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

There’s no way someone comes in here and tries to change what Allen is doing successfully this season. 
Atlanta went from shanahan to Sarkasian I think. That’s an extremely great run scheme to a bad pass offense. 
No way would we replace Daboll with a completely different philosophy. 
Allen knows what he likes, what’s been successful is on film, whoever would take over needs to add to that. 

Beane & McDermott will not hire anyone who will not tow the line of what they want done. So whoever might replace Daboll is going to continue the same playbook with only minor tweaks, but if those tweaks don’t work well they will be discontinued promptly, you can bet your ars on that. 

 

that and Daboll isn’t going anywhere, so don’t worry, 😁👍
 

Go Bills!!!

[BillsFan130]

Boooooz.

 

Lets worry about this once the season is done and just enjoy this ride in the mean time. Just my opinion!

[Big Blitz]

He seems really good at making in game adjustments this year.  They seem to by in large disect the D figure out what's going on and adjust.  

 

Do coaches have QBs involved in the interview process?  Do you think the HC wants his QB to sit down with the candidate and go over film...talk adjustments and schemes.  And take the opinions of the QB into consideration?  Nothing more then feedback.  "Yea this dude knows his stuff."  Especially if it's a younger coach not as established.  

 

Just seems like something I would want to be part of the process.  Part...certainly not the only thing.

 

But I guess if the HC and QB disagree that could pose a problem.  But I think I'd do that so long as my QB knows ultimately I'm making the call and it may not be the guy you liked the most.  You are simply giving me something to use in the evaluation. 

[Chaos]

Josh Allen is a top five QB with or without Daboll.  It is not clear Daboll is a top five OC without Allen.  The Bills will be fine. 

[GoBills808]

I wonder if Daboll’s success continues without Josh Allen

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

Has Daboll ever had a top 10 offense as an OC before he had Allen? 
 

that should answer your question 

 

 

Daboll probably also did not have a Silly LAMP Rant about being on the hot seat.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

Has Daboll ever had a top 10 offense as an OC before he had Allen? 
 

that should answer your question 

 

Have you thought he grew to become where he is at now?  Noone starts perfect, people have to grow in order to become very good at something.

[Max Fischer]

I’m glad you brought this up, this hasn’t been discussed. 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

I trust McD and the FO to find the best possible replacement, if it comes to that. If we continue to light things up, it’s almost impossible not to lose Daboll. That, my friends, is the price of success. 

 

 

I encourage you to watch the outstanding video above.  You will see how Josh, in year 3, is essentially a savant at understanding coverages and how to beat them with his training & incredible arm talent.  All credit is due to Josh being a sponge for Daboll, whom many wanted out of here earlier (and didn't understand why Cleveland even talked to him last year.)

 

It may also lessen your worry about Daboll's eventual departure, because I think this clearly shows how "fully-trained" #17 is at this point. 

 

It won't take much for whomever McDermott invites into the fold to look pretty smart coaching the most physically gifted & highly competitive guy we have ever had at the position.  I say that with peace & love & all due respect to #12 Jim Kelly, who, it seems, would probably agree with that assesment! 

 

^^^ take special appreciation for the absolute LASER Josh threw on his #2 best throw to Gabe Davis to the corner of the endzone versus Pittsburgh.  Almost as much smoke on that one as when he threw a seed between the defenders to Jake Kumerow in Denver !!! 🔥🔥🔥 ^^^

Edited January 7, 2021 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Jerboski]

We are gonna miss Dabol for sure... Curious is Sean stays in-house or looks around 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

4 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

My view is that Josh would have made many OCs look good given the same opportunity that Daboll had. 

 

That's a mixed bag. Josh made Daboll look bad year 1 and 2 because he didn't have the field vision and ability to determine pre-snap reads. He had to rely on his legs and athleticism to bail him out. We also had crappy WR's that couldn't get separation, so Daboll was limited with his play-calling and schemes.  

I remember a lot of those head-scratching trick plays went south and we'd yell at the tv, WTF!! is Daboll doing.  He's an idiot.

 

No with all the pieces in place, Daboll looks like a genius and Josh is thriving because his brain caught up with his body.  Daboll's same trick plays are working because we have the talent to execute them. Imagine Kelvin Benjamin trying the Cole Beasley pass   Josh found a way to make Daboll look even better now. I hope they stay together for a good run. 

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I highly doubt Daboll will leave his playbook here.  Sure they’ll be able to keep some of the concepts but it will be a different offense whoever gets the job.  

The playbook is already here. Not like he’s going to hunt down everyone with a copy. 
 

Will be interesting to see if they hire from within to maintain the same philosophy or do they go with an outside hire? Certainly there will be a lot of quality candidates who would want the job. Will they want to change the scheme? Will a guy like Dorsey be as creative as Daboll? Lots of questions.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Bangarang

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's difficult to tell.  Ken Dorsey seems like the logical choice to keep the scheme in place but it's nerve wracking because he doesn't have a history of calling plays.  Bills changed offensive coordinators during the Kelly years and they still thrived if it makes you feel any better.  Brady's had many different offensive coordinators.

But Kelly basically was his own OC on the field by virtue of the no-huddle; I’m not sure the OC did that much in game type calls, at least during the Marchibroda years (Bresnahan a different story). On a side note, stumbled across interesting 2014 piece comparing OC calls vs QB playcalling through the years: https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/coach-or-qb-you-make-the-call/

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

There’s no way someone comes in here and tries to change what Allen is doing successfully this season. 
Atlanta went from shanahan to Sarkasian I think. That’s an extremely great run scheme to a bad pass offense. 
No way would we replace Daboll with a completely different philosophy. 
Allen knows what he likes, what’s been successful is on film, whoever would take over needs to add to that. 

You say that with such confidence but remember McD's first OC Dennison came in and changed the run scheme when they had the #1 rushing attack two years in a row.  Don't assume these people are smart.  

[NewEra]

Hoping daboll sticks for one more year.  At that point, we won’t even need an OC.  This past offseason, Josh fixed ever single one of his deficiencies.  This coming offseason, he’s going to memorize the playbook and pick Dabolls brain and just become the OC/QB.  Run a no huddle and he’ll call every play.  

[Man with No Name]

I would expect an initial drop off, but they will get it together, and eventually improve on where they are now. It will be a harder road for Daboll without Allen and company than vice versa. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Man with No Name