transplantbillsfan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 It's hard to determine why this happened, but once Brady took over, Buffalo had: 21 drops 10.1% drop rate Both worst in the NFL over that span 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stonada Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Passes the eye test too 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Dorsey may not have been a great offensive coordinator but he was excellent at running the jugs machine. 1 23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Joe Brady needs to catch better. 3 1 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 What was it before when Dorsey was here ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 we have a couple drop machines in Gabe, Knox, and Cook. plus, Diggs lost his mojo somehow. Gabe most likely wont be here, and hopefully Kincaid gets a larger target share from Knox. Knox AND Cook both need to get their hands/heads on straight. 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 It seemed to me that the 1st part of the season Kincaid caught everything near him; not a single drop. At some point, he started to drop a few, but I still wouldn't call it a problem. Diggs, 1st part of the season very few drops but at some point, started dropping quite a few. Also, it seemed that Cook was thrown to later in the season more & had a few critical drops. I don't know if these issues corresponded to the switch in coordinators, just seemed like a marked difference between early & late season. (Perhaps weather came into play? Harder to catch a ball in cold/wet than in warm/dry conditions.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Maybe Brady should switch to defensive coordinator if he's that good at coaching incomplete passes. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stonada Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Shakir is money. Diggs is money when his head is right. Kincaid is money. Everyone else is gone except Knox. He’s probably not going to change at this point. Shorter and Isabella, I don’t know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's hard to determine why this happened, but once Brady took over, Buffalo had: 21 drops 10.1% drop rate Both worst in the NFL over that span So, where are you getting those stats? I'd love to see week by week data. In any case, there are many causes. It's not one thing, it's many working together. But a lot of it is that Josh has a bit harder time with short throws than with longer ones, and that he sometimes puts mustard on balls that are short, making it really hard to handle. And mustard from Josh is hotter than just about any other in the league. More short throws under Brady than under Dorsey. That's not all, though. Receivers certainly have a part in it. Oh, and take a look at your math. It's a small difference, but 21 drops in 229 passes is 9.17%. I assume you meant in-season drops, right? That's 229 attempts. If you were including the playoffs, it would be 69 more throws. So, not 10.1%. Instead 9.17%. Not that that's a great figure either, but correct figures are more useful in understanding the world. Edited February 2 by Thurman#1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Could be many reasons for that. Happenstance? Late in the season? Defenses able to play our receivers better? My question is, why is that on Brady? Wouldn’t it ultimately be on the WR coach? Pretty sure the team misses Chad Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I'm sure it wasn't great before then either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Cook dropped some soft balls that was frustrating. But I am prepared for the bills to be top half for drops because Allen has a tendency to launch rockets to guys ten yards from him. Some of Davis and Kincaids drops are more in Allen IMO. I know people wil say if your hands touch it you should catch it out just be ready to talk about drops while Allen is here. It’s not all the wrs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said: we have a couple drop machines in Gabe, Knox, and Cook. plus, Diggs lost his mojo somehow. Gabe most likely wont be here, and hopefully Kincaid gets a larger target share from Knox. Knox AND Cook both need to get their hands/heads on straight. More so for Cook ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 any casual football fan that watches most teams can easily see the Bills WRs drop more passes than any other team. Other teams catch everything against us, making unbelievable catches. We drop easy TDs. Other kickers hit 50+ yarders in the rain when the game is on the line. Bass gets the yips on extra points. Buffalo is so good that they make mistake after mistake, and still win. If they ever tightened up, and mastered basics, the Bills would be a Dynasty with Josh 6 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I blame Beane 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Obviously not Brady’s fault, but as mentioned this simply matches Diggs decline. He once was the only receiver on this team with good hands. Kincaid is quite reliable, but the increased usage of Cook in the passing game didn’t help those numbers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 They started throwing more bubble screens to Diggs early in games, and it seemed like alot of those fell incomplete. Then mix in Cook, Gabe, and Knox dropping one or two a game each, and that's the bulk of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Didn't Shakir have the lowest drop rate in the league? If I remember correctly, that means all other receivers were more than offsetting his success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Cook and Knox dropped some balls because they were thinking about their next move rather than focusing on catching the ball first. You could see it. 3 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 he just needs to fit them up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 4 hours ago, eSJayDee said: It seemed to me that the 1st part of the season Kincaid caught everything near him; not a single drop. At some point, he started to drop a few, but I still wouldn't call it a problem. Diggs, 1st part of the season very few drops but at some point, started dropping quite a few. Also, it seemed that Cook was thrown to later in the season more & had a few critical drops. I don't know if these issues corresponded to the switch in coordinators, just seemed like a marked difference between early & late season. (Perhaps weather came into play? Harder to catch a ball in cold/wet than in warm/dry conditions.) He had shoulder and wrist injury during this time iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 i think this is a result of our talent and our scheme/coaching. we have stone handed clowns in knox an davis getting lots of passes, and we have late in the year changes w the new oc and a complicated system, so guys have to think and react a bit more than in say a shanny system where the guy goes to the one spot and gets a ball at one exact time. i suppose the coaches could also like train these guys to catch better, but at some point it's set in stone and doesn't have much room. davis and knox are both just not natural pass catchers. cook just has a terrible habit of not looking the ball in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) What does the OC have to do with the players in the game catching or, in this case, not catching the football? If Josh puts the ball in your hands, bring that in. I understand a few here or there because he is throwing some heaters, but these guys have to be better. Edited February 2 by H2o 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 RALPH IS CHEAP!!! (Am I doing this right?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 My theory is that JA throws the ball so hard that the Bills receivers have broken hands. / sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: So, where are you getting those stats? I'd love to see week by week data. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2023_advanced.htm Click on Advanced Passing. That'll show you the totals, from there click on any player and their Advanced Passing and you can see their individual drops by game. Diggs has for under Brady, two each vs. the Jets and KC, both of which we beat. Kinaid had the, two against Dallas which we beat, and one against Philly. Davis had none. Shakir had none. Not sure where the others came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 As mentioned in another thread: IT'S NOT A COACHING PROBLEM, IT'S A TALENT PROBLEM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Gaberalosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's hard to determine why this happened, but once Brady took over, Buffalo had: 21 drops 10.1% drop rate Both worst in the NFL over that span Maybe so but Josh had the second most INT's in the NFL too but had 4306 yds this season which is 3rd in the league . Chiefs had the most drops with 44 & the Bills had 30 which was 8th in the league . There may have been more drops after Brady took over but i would like to see where you got that info but things definitely got better when Brady took over so Dorcey's play calls must have been & wasn't as potent as Brady so i'm good !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 As a Brady, he is responsible for inflating the footballs. But he is not good at it. He keeps over inflating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Here’s a theory: seems that many QBs know whom they will throw to pre-snap, and the receiver knows it too. It’s a readiness thing. Whereas, JA17, is making his decisions post-snap, and he is improvising as he looks at his options. None of the receivers have an idea until the ball is coming at them. Yes, they should all be ready and they should catch the ball if it hits their hands. However, if I know I’m going to be the target from the get-go, then I’m ready. Nice theory, huh? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, Ga boy said: Here’s a theory: seems that many QBs know whom they will throw to pre-snap, and the receiver knows it too. It’s a readiness thing. Whereas, JA17, is making his decisions post-snap, and he is improvising as he looks at his options. None of the receivers have an idea until the ball is coming at them. Yes, they should all be ready and they should catch the ball if it hits their hands. However, if I know I’m going to be the target from the get-go, then I’m ready. Nice theory, huh? This is gonna be a popular post, but I agree. Josh is not a pre-snap read guy. At all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, bmur66 said: Cook and Knox dropped some balls because they were thinking about their next move rather than focusing on catching the ball first. You could see it. Yeah, they dropped some balls that were placed right in there hands which they dropped. Especially Cook. He dropped a couple easy touchdown passes that cost us the game. He definitely needs to improve this coming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Could have a lot to do with second half Diggs more than anything since he is always the top target. Cook and Knox were dropping passes to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 29 minutes ago, Ga boy said: Here’s a theory: seems that many QBs know whom they will throw to pre-snap, and the receiver knows it too. It’s a readiness thing. Whereas, JA17, is making his decisions post-snap, and he is improvising as he looks at his options. None of the receivers have an idea until the ball is coming at them. Yes, they should all be ready and they should catch the ball if it hits their hands. However, if I know I’m going to be the target from the get-go, then I’m ready. Nice theory, huh? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Jones Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: As mentioned in another thread: IT'S NOT A COACHING PROBLEM, IT'S A TALENT PROBLEM Honestly, it’s BOTH lack of talent AND average coaching. As has been noted many times, a HS coach could get the Bills to the playoffs with JA17 at QB. 7 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Dorsey may not have been a great offensive coordinator but he was excellent at running the jugs machine. I was fooling around on the google machine earlier this week and saw that when Dorsey was a QB at the University of Miami, he set all kinds of school records, and his W-L record over 4 years was 38-2! They won one national championship and came close to a second, but were beat by Ohio State. I did not know all of the latter til this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 4 hours ago, Pete said: any casual football fan that watches most teams can easily see the Bills WRs drop more passes than any other team. Other teams catch everything against us, making unbelievable catches. We drop easy TDs. Other kickers hit 50+ yarders in the rain when the game is on the line. Bass gets the yips on extra points. Buffalo is so good that they make mistake after mistake, and still win. If they ever tightened up, and mastered basics, the Bills would be a Dynasty with Josh Actually Chiefs receivers dropped quite a few throughout the season. The reversed that trend in the divisional game and had zero drops against the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2023_advanced.htm Click on Advanced Passing. That'll show you the totals, from there click on any player and their Advanced Passing and you can see their individual drops by game. Diggs has for under Brady, two each vs. the Jets and KC, both of which we beat. Kinaid had the, two against Dallas which we beat, and one against Philly. Davis had none. Shakir had none. Not sure where the others came from. PFF also has Buffalo with 21 drops since Brady took over (including the two postseason games, so obviously we played more games in that span than a lot of other teams, thus inflating the drop totals). Cook - 6 Diggs - 5 Kincaid - 3 Latavius - 2 Shakir, Gabe, Knox, Sherfield, and Morris - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 JOsh throws balls to spots upon occasion hoping his receiver will get there. I have seen both Davis and Shikir "get there", so that sometime works. But, Josh likes the hero ball throw, and sometimes the receivers get a glove and nothing else on the ball...hence called a drop. so, the comment above about some being on Josh is correct. But, he does that for the right reason, and sometimes it works out ok. On the other hand, Cooks drops this year were just lack of concentration and poor hands. I won't say bad hands, he catches some, but dropped the td pass against the Chiefs. Can't do that against them and be a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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