Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[Eastport bills]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huntley has gone 3-5, thrown 3 tds to 5 ints the last 2 years. Lamar has went 15-9, thrown 33 tds to 20 ints. Dumb take.

 

Even dumber is Lamar almost has thrown for more tds in his mvp season than Jones has thrown in his whole career. In Jones’ “breakout” season, Lamar threw for tds than Jones did in 12 games. Awful, awful comparisons.

Why do you keep going back to the Jones comparison? I explained that mentioning them together was to say they both don’t warrant monster contracts. The Huntley reference was just to annoy you and it worked fine genius. Who cares how many TDs Lamar threw for. He’s hurt all the time and didn’t want to be on the field when it counted. Stop making arguments for him when his own team clearly knows his value.

[ColoradoBills]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huntley has gone 3-5, thrown 3 tds to 5 ints the last 2 years. Lamar has went 15-9, thrown 33 tds to 20 ints. Dumb take.

 

Even dumber is Lamar almost has thrown for more tds in his mvp season than Jones has thrown in his whole career. In Jones’ “breakout” season, Lamar threw for tds than Jones did in 12 games. Awful, awful comparisons.

 

All true but the bottom line is Lamar has been in the league for 5 years and he is 1-3 in the playoffs with a 57% completion record and

has 3 TDs and 5 INTs with 19 sacks and 5 fumbles.

 

If he was a Bill, this board would be all over that.  His stock is down because of things like this, not an MVP season.

[PatsFanNH]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, SCBills said:

 

Why would any team do this? I mean I know someone will, but he has had knee issues the last 2 years and he left his team out in the lurch this year when they needed him. I wouldn’t want him on my team because IMO he is looking for a ton guarantee money because he knows his knees are close to done and his career is all but over.  (I could be wrong but that’s my hot take lol)

Edited February 25, 2023 by PatsFanNH

[C.Biscuit97]

58 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

All true but the bottom line is Lamar has been in the league for 5 years and he is 1-3 in the playoffs with a 57% completion record and

has 3 TDs and 5 INTs with 19 sacks and 5 fumbles.

 

If he was a Bill, this board would be all over that.  His stock is down because of things like this, not an MVP season.

Peyton manning didn’t win his first playoff game until 27. Lamar is 26. Lot of time to change things.

 

and his stock is “down” because he doesn’t have an agent and wants all guaranteed money. If this wasn’t the case, the Ravens would have signed him already. 

[DCofNC]

Jackson has officially proven himself an idiot.  Consider this, had Jackson been intelligent enough to take a deal like Allen’s already, he would have already had 40-50M more in his bank, with 100 more in guaranteed money locked in, potential to average 50M a year.  Instead he chose to play out 5 years on a rookie deal, trying to lock in the same money he would have gotten 2 years earlier AND the way the contracts work out, the money is almost fully guaranteed anyway because teams have to convert salary to bonus( straight cash), to free up cap space.   He would have been far better off paying an agent, but he saved Pennie’s to lose dollars.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

Why do you keep going back to the Jones comparison? I explained that mentioning them together was to say they both don’t warrant monster contracts. The Huntley reference was just to annoy you and it worked fine genius. Who cares how many TDs Lamar threw for. He’s hurt all the time and didn’t want to be on the field when it counted. Stop making arguments for him when his own team clearly knows his value.

Because you foolishly lumped him in with Jackson, who has been a much, much better player. 
 

and you try to annoy people you don’t online? Sounds like you have a fulfilling life. I’ll bet you Lamar ends up with a top 5 contract and way more than Daniel Jones. Wanna bet, genius (a smart person uses better punctuation)?

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Jackson has officially proven himself an idiot.  Consider this, had Jackson been intelligent enough to take a deal like Allen’s already, he would have already had 40-50M more in his bank, with 100 more in guaranteed money locked in, potential to average 50M a year.  Instead he chose to play out 5 years on a rookie deal, trying to lock in the same money he would have gotten 2 years earlier AND the way the contracts work out, the money is almost fully guaranteed anyway because teams have to convert salary to bonus( straight cash), to free up cap space.   He would have been far better off paying an agent, but he saved Pennie’s to lose dollars.

So if ends up getting what he wants, is he still an idiot? 

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because you foolishly lumped him in with Jackson, who has been a much, much better player. 
 

and you try to annoy people you don’t online? Sounds like you have a fulfilling life. I’ll bet you Lamar ends up with a top 5 contract and way more than Daniel Jones. Wanna bet, genius (a smart person uses better punctuation)?

So if ends up getting what he wants, is he still an idiot? 

Yes.  Time value of money.  

[stuvian]

It's hard for working folks to apply logic to these stratospheric QB salaries. The money is insane until the next TV deal comes along and justifies it.

 

If you're the Ravens you can pay your franchise QB the going rate or you can tell the fan base you'll trade him for picks and hope you land a QB in the draft who you can ride until his rookie contract runs out like Hurts and Burrow.

 

This Ravens team is pretty shallow after Lamar. The defense is just OK. Unless they're down for a total rebuild they need Lamar more than Lamar needs the Ravens. Harbaugh has sixteen seasons in Baltimore. How many more rebuilds is he down for? If you don't sign him you have to throw out the playbook.

 

Lamar asking for a better deal than Watson and refusing to renegotiate sound like he's trying to talk his way out of town.

[Thrivefourfive]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Peyton manning didn’t win his first playoff game until 27. Lamar is 26. Lot of time to change things.

 

and his stock is “down” because he doesn’t have an agent and wants all guaranteed money. If this wasn’t the case, the Ravens would have signed him already. 

Peyton Manning and Lamar Jackson are two pretty difference entities, no? Comparisons stop right after it’s declared both are/were NFL players. 

[JoPoy88]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:42 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because you foolishly lumped him in with Jackson, who has been a much, much better player. 
 

and you try to annoy people you don’t online? Sounds like you have a fulfilling life. I’ll bet you Lamar ends up with a top 5 contract and way more than Daniel Jones. Wanna bet, genius (a smart person uses better punctuation)?

So if ends up getting what he wants, is he still an idiot? 

I think he just brought up Jones because it has been reported this past week Jones wants $45mil a year or something insane like that. I don’t think he was equating Jackson to DJ.

Edited February 26, 2023 by JoPoy88

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:44 AM, Eastport bills said:

This is indicative of how distorted the QB market has become. When Daniel Jones and Jackson feel they’re entitled to Mahomes and Allen money and ownership is willing to pay them, it proves there should be a separate cap for QBs. The cap restricts teams to fill rosters and stay competitive. With new contracts dictating the market, QBs with one solid season after a whole rookie contract of mediocrity , puts teams in cap jail if they invest in a questionable talent. For the best interests of competitive balance going forward, these monster contracts should be separated in some manner from the rest of the cap.

 

But look at the both the Eagles and Rams. Two teams that gave their Qb’s franchise QB deals, only to learn that those QB’s were not as advertised and yet both teams not only got out of those deals but also both made it back to the Super Bowl with a new “franchise QB” and one even won it. 
 

Teams can get out of them and still succeed if they are smart enough and have above average personnel skills.

 

And some QB’s truly are great and are worth the money. I believe Allen is one of those QB’s and in the end that will get us an advantage over the teams paying QB’s that are not truly elite.

[Doc Brown]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:50 PM, stuvian said:

Lamar asking for a better deal than Watson and refusing to renegotiate sound like he's trying to talk his way out of town.

There may be a certain stubbornness to Lamar also with wanting to prove that he negotiated this record fully guaranteed deal without needing an agent.  If he gets it from the Ravens or some other team.  Good for him.  However, I already think it was incredibly stupid to even set foot on the field last season without the security of a long term deal that will set you and your family up for generations.

[newcam2012]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did you just compare Jackson to Jones? Awful. Jackson wins 70% of his games and has won a MVP. Awful, awful comparison. 

Or he was limited in a run he’s at offense with terrible receivers. 

"Did you just compare Jackson to Jones? Awful. Jackson wins 70% of his games and has won a MVP. Awful, awful comparison."

 

Care to comment on the Mahomes to Allen comparasion? One has two rings and MVP awards. 

[Eastport bills]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

But look at the both the Eagles and Rams. Two teams that gave their Qb’s franchise QB deals, only to learn that those QB’s were not as advertised and yet both teams not only got out of those deals but also both made it back to the Super Bowl with a new “franchise QB” and one even won it. 
 

Teams can get out of them and still succeed if they are smart enough and have above average personnel skills.

 

And some QB’s truly are great and are worth the money. I believe Allen is one of those QB’s and in the end that will get us an advantage over the teams paying QB’s that are not truly elite.

The problem is the skills required to extricate a team from a really bad QB contract(DeSean Jackson, Murray, Wilson) are not in the DNA of most GMs. How many GMs are ready to give up the draft capital to surround a Stafford with the personnel to get a SB and be bad for years to come? I think the idea of putting a team in purgatory because they make a decision out of desperation and destroy loyal fan bases who live and die with their fortunes is bad for the NFL. If QB contracts are partially separated from the cap it gives teams wiggle room and the owners can afford the extra overhead.

[Manther]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:30 AM, Buffalo Junction said:

Richard Sherman and Roquan Smith did it, but there are a couple notable differences. Neither are QBs, and they both scored much higher on the wonderlic. Sherman graduated from Stanford. Roquan Smith majored in economics and has a track record of shrewd contract manipulation going back to national signing day. 

Nice, thank you!  Cool, great points!

[Teddy KGB]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:30 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did you just compare Jackson to Jones? Awful. Jackson wins 70% of his games and has won a MVP. Awful, awful comparison. 

Or he was limited in a run he’s at offense with terrible receivers. 

Jackson also sucks when the playoffs come around.   Wgas about a MVP trophy.  
 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:13 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd like to see Lamar with an alpha WR then we'll see if he's been figured out. Remember how Josh Allen looked before Stefon Diggs. Jalen Hurts before AJ Brown. 

Lamar has had Mark Andrews.  He is a beast that I would put in the top 5 TE's in the league.

[The Jokeman]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:13 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd like to see Lamar with an alpha WR then we'll see if he's been figured out. Remember how Josh Allen looked before Stefon Diggs. Jalen Hurts before AJ Brown. 

Remember how John Brown looked with Lamar in 2018 and then bolted the next season for Buffalo and performed better with Josh Allen?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Remember how John Brown looked with Lamar in 2018 and then bolted the next season for Buffalo and performed better with Josh Allen?

And the Bills still felt they had to deal for Diggs...

16 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Lamar has had Mark Andrews.  He is a beast that I would put in the top 5 TE's in the league.

Andrews is still not an "alpha" receiver. Very good though 

[Pecos Bills]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:00 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Even dumber is Lamar almost has thrown for more tds in his mvp season than Jones has thrown in his whole career. In Jones’ “breakout” season, Lamar threw for tds than Jones did in 12 games. Awful, awful comparisons.

 

Interesting math.  Jackson threw for 36 TDs in his 2019 MVP season, while Jones has thrown for 60 TDs in his career.  Jones also had a higher QBR and more wins than Jackson this past season, and won as many playoff games as Jackson has in his career.

Edited February 27, 2023 by BayBuck

[RocCityRoller]

Just happy Buffalo is not in this mess. The Mahomes and Allen contracts are going to look like theft in a couple of years.

[Nitro]

Let him walk and draft a young QB.   He is starting to get injury prone.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Nitro

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Just happy Buffalo is not in this mess. The Mahomes and Allen contracts are going to look like theft in a couple of years.

They already are!

 

[Scott7975]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:28 PM, The Wiz said:

I hope it's not the jets.  Even a best up Lamar is better than what they had last year and the rest of their team is pretty solid top to bottom.  A better than average QB would make them better.

 

As far as the cap hell, yes I agree.

 

Jets would lose some of that roster to fit Lamar.  They are 1mil in the hole without him.

[cba fan]

i would franchise Lamar if deal can not be worked out.

[Mikie2times]

Insane athlete. NFL arm strength. Outside of that, he's not even in my top 10. He can't be. Any QB that is dependent on running can't be in your top 10. It will get taken away when it matters and for most, you will miss significant time. If Lamar never had his rookie year when nobody knew how to defend him, then he wouldn't be seeing much more than average starter money at best. Roman has made every mobile QB he has seen have an efficient looking passing line, but none of them could ever get it done when it mattered nor play in more QB focused systems. The NFL knows everything I'm saying. He will not see anywhere close to what he is demanding. He will never see a Super Bowl. Sign him and you put a ceiling over your team. It is that simple. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by KzooMike

[RyanC883]

On 2/23/2023 at 5:07 PM, Airseven said:

Every new contract for an upper echelon player will be negotiated to exceed the one that came before it. Kyler Murray provided the template to hold one's team hostage. These guys have no reason not to ask for the moon.

 

Murray also proved why you don’t give in.  I think the Ravens backup was adequate.  If the Ravens can get a first for him, then grab RB Robinson and a WR that offense will be above average. 

[Behindenemylines]

But in a way don’t you just WANT them to go full Browns and cave, and then watch the total meltdown that happens.  That’s entertainment WWE style!  
 

What would the talking heads say?  Would they blame Lamar or the team management for failure?   
 

Daily watch of the injury report.   Why does he only play 12 games a year for a gazillion dollars.  SO MUCH FUN cause it ain’t us and I hate the fu$$ing Ravens 
 

get me some buttered popcorn and a coke 

[The Wiz]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Jets would lose some of that roster to fit Lamar.  They are 1mil in the hole without him.

They would, but they have great player at rb1, wr1 and cb1 on rookie contracts for 5 years(4 more now).  Those will keep them competitive even is they loss others.  Also Q. Williams for another 2 on rookie deal when they use his 5th year option.

Edited February 28, 2023 by The Wiz

[Doc Brown]

13 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

The problem is the skills required to extricate a team from a really bad QB contract(DeSean Jackson, Murray, Wilson) are not in the DNA of most GMs. How many GMs are ready to give up the draft capital to surround a Stafford with the personnel to get a SB and be bad for years to come? I think the idea of putting a team in purgatory because they make a decision out of desperation and destroy loyal fan bases who live and die with their fortunes is bad for the NFL. If QB contracts are partially separated from the cap it gives teams wiggle room and the owners can afford the extra overhead.

The free market (under a socialist salary cap system ironically) will sort this out and you don't need to separate QB contracts from the cap.  The more these QB contracts blow up in teams faces the less likely some franchises will be to shell out Kyler Murray type money.

[benderbender]

Just a reminder that the Browns gave Watson a $230 Million guaranteed contract. It happened. Any QB who doesn’t ask for at least that afterwards is admitting he doesn’t bring as much to the table as a 25 time accused sexual assaulter. So Kyler Murray. Lamar thinks more of himself than Kyler Murray.

 

Now that the XFL isn’t a tour de force and March Madness is too far away, the media wants to pick up old stories and refurbish them for content about Lamar.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by benderbender

[Bruffalo]

13 minutes ago, benderbender said:

Just a reminder that the Browns gave Watson a $230 Million guaranteed contract. It happened. Any QB who doesn’t ask for at least that afterwards is admitting he doesn’t bring as much to the table as a 25 time accused sexual assaulter. So Kyler Murray. Lamar thinks more of himself than Kyler Murray.

 

Now that the XFL isn’t a tour de force and March Madness is too far away, the media wants to pick up old stories and refurbish them for content about Lamar.

 

The Browns definitely screwed up the market (and hopefully themselves) by signing that serial abuser. I don't think you can possibly make that deal for Lamar though given the way he plays and the injury potential. 

It's a tough pill to swallow, but I think you have to let him walk. 

[Eastport bills]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The free market (under a socialist salary cap system ironically) will sort this out and you don't need to separate QB contracts from the cap.  The more these QB contracts blow up in teams faces the less likely some franchises will be to shell out Kyler Murray type money.

Unfortunately the perfect storm of the NFL being a QB driven league and the scarcity of high quality,SB capable QBs makes the pressure on ownership to overvalue marginal talent extremely high. That’s why agents know the Daniel Jones’s and Lamar Jackson’s of the world will be get Mahomes money by a desperate franchise one way or the other. With the protection of the hard cap, the only people that will suffer are the devoted fans who will be in purgatory for long periods of time.ie(Az, Cleveland, Dallas)

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:10 PM, SCBills said:

 

Two things can be true.

 

1)  He is twice the QB Watson is.

 

2)  Baltimore should absolutely not give him the contract he is asking for. 

 

 

THREE things can be true.

 

1)  He is twice the QB Watson is.

 

2)  Baltimore should absolutely not give him the contract he is asking for. 

 

3) I want that money so badly.  Even some of it. Oh please, please, please, please, please, please.

[C.Biscuit97]

22 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Lamar has had Mark Andrews.  He is a beast that I would put in the top 5 TE's in the league.

Andrews is a beast but he came into the nfl as rookie with Lamar after being drafted in the 3rd round. So apparently he wasn’t that much of a beast to nfl teams. Lamar deserves credit for soem of his success. Isiah’s likely stepped in when Andrews got hurt and also was successful.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Andrews is a beast but he came into the nfl as rookie with Lamar after being drafted in the 3rd round. So apparently he wasn’t that much of a beast to nfl teams. Lamar deserves credit for soem of his success. Isiah’s likely stepped in when Andrews got hurt and also was successful.

Ugh Likely was on my short list of TEs to draft last season. 

[TheFunPolice]

Lamar deserves a contract bigger than Watson's.

 

Lamar is a better QB, a more dynamic threat, was league MVP, and hasn't had off the field issues and suspensions. 

 

That, plus contracts always go up over time= give Lamar what Watson got, plus some % on top of that. 

 

I'm always going to be for the players getting paid. If Lamar had torn his knee RGIII style in the playoffs this year the Ravens would say "gosh that's awful" and pay him pennies on the dollar or cut him loose and he wouldn't see a fraction of the $$ he deserves. 

 

IF Lamar was a free agent, some team would give him what he wants, maybe more than 1. Why should he settle?

Edited February 28, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[DrDawkinstein]

24 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Lamar deserves a contract bigger than Watson's.

 

Lamar is a better QB, a more dynamic threat, was league MVP, and hasn't had off the field issues and suspensions. 

 

That, plus contracts always go up over time= give Lamar what Watson got, plus some % on top of that. 

 

I'm always going to be for the players getting paid. If Lamar had torn his knee RGIII style in the playoffs this year the Ravens would say "gosh that's awful" and pay him pennies on the dollar or cut him loose and he wouldn't see a fraction of the $$ he deserves. 

 

IF Lamar was a free agent, some team would give him what he wants, maybe more than 1. Why should he settle?

 

The amount isnt the issue, it's the guaranteed amount that is the issue. And outside of Kirk Cousins and Deshaun Watson, no other top QB has ever been fully guaranteed. Not Rodgers, not Brady, not Mahomes, not Allen.

 

So given those lists, it seems the fully guaranteed only happens by bad or desperate teams. Neither of which I would use to describe the Ravens.

 

Good for Lamar to get every penny he can out of the NFL. But he is close to leaving money on the table, like LeVeon Bell, over "principles".

[Don Otreply]

   It confuses me that Lamar, or anyone for that matter would turn down something to the tune of one hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed, likely with other cash for performance incentives on top of that.  What is all the more confusing is that his team is making this offer to a QB that has so obviously already peaked performance wise, and is apparently injury prone.

 

   I’m trying to assess why the parties involved would make and, then in turn refuse the offer, is it a cognitive issue? Or is it uncontrolled greed/arrogance? I’m thinking it is both, by both entities. I will say Its is nice as a Bills fan to see another team having to deal with this complete and utter nonsense.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

   It confuses me that Lamar, or anyone for that matter would turn down something to the tune of one hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed, likely with other cash for performance incentives on top of that.  What is all the more confusing is that his team is making this offer to a QB that has so obviously already peaked performance wise, and is apparently injury prone.

 

   I’m trying to assess why the parties involved would make and, then in turn refuse the offer, is it a cognitive issue? Or is it uncontrolled greed/arrogance? I’m thinking it is both, by both entities. I will say Its is nice as a Bills fan to see another team having to deal with this complete and utter nonsense.

 

Lamar doesnt have an agent, and is handling ever aspect of this himself. He majored in Communications, and did not graduate. So not sure how suited he is to run this, or make decisions.