Benford is outplaying 1st rounder Elam in camp (edit) Benford gets start

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Well said.

I mentioned previously that I think Benford came in more well versed in what the Bills' defensive coaches generally ask of their defensive backs, whereas a lot of it was/is new to Elam.

I still tend to think that Elam has a higher ceiling than Benford, but Benford is no slouch athletically, either. 

In any case, it seems like both players are getting better week after week. By the bye week of the 2022 season, I expect the Bills to have four quality outside corners on the roster and the "problem" of not having enough playing time for all of them.

 

I think benford has legitimate #2 upside 

 

but I think he could be a pro bowl type safety with his instincts 

[billsfan_34]

59 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

So far, Benford looks like the real deal.   One pre season game looked great but obviously a long way to go.   Very important because I don't think there is any realistic way Tre will be ready nor should he play week 1.  

We forget about Taron as well. Definitely let Tre rest until fully healed and game ready.

[Simon Says]

Interesting that, early on, there was talk of Benford eventually moving to safety. That versatility might come in handy.

[Malazan]

Regardless of who is ahead, it's likely it will be a mix of both of them opposite Jackson to start the season. 

[CorkScrewHill]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I’m not sure I’d say that. It would be a great problem to have if both were playing so great that you didn’t know who to choose.

 

Buffalo’s 1st round pick being outplayed by a late round selection isn’t ideal though.

I think people are looking at this wrong. The fact that Benford may be outplaying Elam is irrelevant to whether Elam is where he needs to be in his development. If Elam was outperforming Beneford but they both looked bad that WOULD be a problem. This is more like Elam looks good but wow Benford is really outplaying his draft position 

[Scott7975]

A spot that Elam definitely excels at is jamming the receiver on the line. That would have helped for at least 13 seconds last year. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Training camp and one preseason game is not enough to make any bold declarations like Benford should be starting over Elam.

 

It looks like Dane Jackson is ahead of both of them anyway, right now.

 

Just have to see how things play out. But Elam was brought in partly because of his elite physical traits, something we were lacking at CB.

 

Excited for Benford and what he can bring to the table as well.

 

Yeah could be Benford understands things better so may be ahead now, but figuring once Elam "gets it" the superior physical skills will leap frog him way ahead.  Or he could become one of these guys who never quite gets it and is always held back by that.  Time will tell.

[msw2112]

34 minutes ago, BillsClinton said:

Nate Peterman, a 5th round draft pick, outplayed 1st round Josh Allen in the 2018 preseason. 

 

For what it's worth, Peterman had a year of NFL experience under his belt, including some game action, prior that preseason (despite the ugliness of that game action).  Peterman also played his college ball at Pitt, which (arguably) plays against better teams and more NFL talent than Allen did at Wyoming.  Nobody thought that Peterman was a better player than Allen.  He was simply, in the eyes of the coaching staff, more ready to start a game.  He clearly was not more ready to FINISH a game. 

 

Elam played in a better conference and against more NFL talent than Benford did, but they are coming out at the same time, so they have the same level of NFL experience. 

 

The "problem" with having a 6th rounder outplaying a 1st rounder (if that's in fact the case) is that the 1st rounder represents a much larger investment on the part of the team, as the team has spent a lot more draft "capital" on the player and is paying the player a much higher salary.  I trust the Bills coaching staff to manage the "problem" and it will be fine.  Based on what I saw in the preseason game, BOTH rookies played well against the Colts' first team offense, which is definitely a positive for the Bills.

[billsfan_34]

53 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

Also Elam gets drafted, shows up to camp and basically gets told "see Diggs, Davis and McKenzie over there? Cover those dudes"

 

Diggs has regularly made the top CBs in the league look utterly silly the last 2 years. We're expecting our first round pick to be prime Revis first day of camp? Come on.

Spot on

[HappyDays]

This development means we don't have to rush Tre back. I would rather hold him out a few extra weeks to decrease the risk of re-injury. The young CBs can hold down the fort for the first 4-8 games.

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

We forget about Taron as well. Definitely let Tre rest until fully healed and game ready.

Taron, one of the greatest  post season ply in Buffalo Bill history.

[FilthyBeast]

It's still way too early to draw conclusions, but this is consistent with all the reports coming out of camp that Benford looks like a real find and Elam has struggled consistently and doesn't appear to be close to being ready to start.

 

Hopefully it all works out but still think that the Bills panicked when they traded up to get Elam because KC took the guy they wanted (McDuffie who BTW has looked like a stud so far in camp/preseason for them).

[DCbillsfan]

44 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Benford is like legit, I wonder if Elam could play safety replacing Poyer next year?

 

I'm just making conversation....

I've been wondering the same scenario but reversed.  Benford as Poyer's replacement.  

[Wacka]

Remember Andre Reed was a 4th round Div II player.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, BillsClinton said:

Nate Peterman, a 5th round draft pick, outplayed 1st round Josh Allen in the 2018 preseason. 

Annnnd end thread lol

[billieve420]

If Tre is not ready to go come regular season. It will probably end up being a time share with Elam/Benford opposite Jackson. Hopefully some growing pains early will pay off by the end of the season. Imagine we will be seeing both rookies on the field regardless even if Tre is ready to go as they ease him in.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, uninja said:

Come on.

 

28 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Spot on

Right On

[C.Biscuit97]

Positive is a 6th rounder is playing great. Personally, I kinda started checking out of training camp/ preseason. Busy summer and honestly most of the stuff we hear about doesn’t really matter come through regular season.  
 

Imagine how fans would have freaked out during the SB years when all the players skipped and just partied the entire camp. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

I wonder who gets Kupp.

Prob Taron. 

[Bobby Hooks]

Sounds like a good problem to have considering Elam looked very sticky on the Colts first stringers. 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

I wonder who gets Kupp.

Taron Johnson in the slot

2 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Sounds like a good problem to have considering Elam looked very sticky on the Colts first stringers. 

sticky, grabby, holdy, illegal contacty

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Training camp and one preseason game is not enough to make any bold declarations like Benford should be starting over Elam.

 

It looks like Dane Jackson is ahead of both of them anyway, right now.

 

Just have to see how things play out. But Elam was brought in partly because of his elite physical traits, something we were lacking at CB.

 

Excited for Benford and what he can bring to the table as well.

Well said.  Inigo, thanks for posting, but I agree with MJS’s point that Elam is a rare talent.  He was playing Man Only at UF, as he’s learning to play a blend of zone and a faster NFL.

 

I can see our 4 CB’s being Tre, Dane, Elam, and Benford.  I’m omitting Taron as he’s locked into the Nickel spot.

 

what’s interesting is the backup safety jobs.  They want guys who have position flexibility, but also potential starters for next year if they don’t do anything for Poyer, or Hyde the year after.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Elam's tackling is one of his biggest weaknesses, so I don't think safety would suit him. I think we keep both active on gameday and rotate them situationally, using Benford more in zone coverage and Elam in press man coverage.

This is what makes the pick even more confusing for me. McDs system calls for keeping receivers in front of the sticks and making solid tackles. Elam is a weak tackler that is grabby in coverage. Still not a fan of the pick, especially when a 6th rounder is getting more pub. But…that’s been sort of the sweet spot in the draft for Beane…4th to 6th round. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Elam was known as a press man corner with a grabby hands issue, while Benford made the team as a zone coverage guy.

It's not a shock that the experienced zone corner would be outplaying the guy who is learning that coverage during pre-season.

 

And I don't think there are reports of Elam being bad. A lot of talks of him flashing during camp. 

But to your point I get the sense that Benford is probably playing faster and more instinctual at the moment, and Elam is thinking a bit even though he is faster. The Bills need a physical press man corner even though we play zone. 

I was thinking the other day that this would be a great situation for a young team trying to build. We are pretty luck that by the time the snow starts falling both these guys are going to be CB3 and CB4 outside. 

[Brand J]

One thing is for sure… if a guy proves he can play CB at a relatively high level, you don’t move him to safety. Good CBs are in high demand.

[Bobby Hooks]

13 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Taron Johnson in the slot

sticky, grabby, holdy, illegal contacty

Worked for the Chiefs in the afccg. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Benford can also be the future at safety with his ball skills and size. I think they should look at working him in there. 

[John from Riverside]

At the end of the day....the bills might be looking very good at corner for years to come.

[Dopey]

I was very happy when I saw the pick come on the board. I really thought he would compete at a safety spot, but with White recovering, we can use all the CBs we can get now. 

[GunnerBill]

He outplayed him on Sat for sure. Not that Elam was bad. He was mainly good with a couple of dodgy moments. I think Benford was excellent and tbh it comes down to the fact that for me right now he looks more comfortable with the primary zone concepts in this defense.

 

Dane is going to start one side and my prediction is without Tre they will declare the other corner a job share but that Benford will end up with more snaps. Similar to what they did a couple of times when Levi had rough patches (rotating him with Kevin Johnson and Josh Norman). 

[clayboy54]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

But we need 3 starting CB's.

Why do people forget that we have Taron Johnson, one of the best slot corners today. Dane is fine as he showed when Tre went down. So, you have a choice between Benford and Elam to man the other side. Once Tre does come back, we just might be stacked for awhile.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

32 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

This is what makes the pick even more confusing for me. McDs system calls for keeping receivers in front of the sticks and making solid tackles. Elam is a weak tackler that is grabby in coverage. Still not a fan of the pick, especially when a 6th rounder is getting more pub. But…that’s been sort of the sweet spot in the draft for Beane…4th to 6th round. 

I really wanted Andrew Booth after McDuffie was off the board. I think the Elam pick indicates we will play a lot more man coverage this year.

[Simon Says]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I’m not sure I’d say that. It would be a great problem to have if both were playing so great that you didn’t know who to choose.

 

Buffalo’s 1st round pick being outplayed by a late round selection isn’t ideal though.

Is Benford really outplaying Elam? Did someone analyze snaps from the Colts game ,taking into consideration how many were against starters, who tbey were covering,etx. and the fact that Elam is transitioning to zone from man?

[BillsFan4]

Just now, Georgie said:

Is Benford really outplaying Elam?

I don’t know. I was mainly just basing my post on the premise of this thread.

 

Sounds like Elam has been up and down in camp. Like I said in another response, we won’t really know anything until the regular season hits and we see how both do.

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Does it matter if he is? They both play for us 😁

 

seems like a good thing to me. 

Well said! I think this situation is not about Elam being " a disappointment"  but more about Beane getting a player like Benford in the 6th round.

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I really wanted Andrew Booth after McDuffie was off the board. I think the Elam pick indicates we will play a lot more man coverage this year.

Booth was a hugely popular pick on these boards during the draft. Did he run more man or zone at Clemson? It’s interesting the Bills didn’t have a first round grade on him, but that could’ve been due to his injury history.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Considering how both have looked, especially vs the Colts is anyone here really mad at the idea of a backfield with Tre White, Dane Jackson, Elam, Benford, Taron Johnson, Hyde, Poyer and Jaquan Johnson?

 

 

[hemma]

11 minutes ago, Georgie said:

Is Benford really outplaying Elam? Did someone analyze snaps from the Colts game ,taking into consideration how many were against starters, who tbey were covering,etx. and the fact that Elam is transitioning to zone from man?

I think YoloinOhio posted a score from Pff that had top the 5 Bills scores — Benford was listed with a fairly high score.  

They probably try to account for some of those parameters.  Don’t know .. been a long time since i had an account.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

7 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Booth was a hugely popular pick on these boards during the draft. Did he run more man or zone at Clemson? It’s interesting the Bills didn’t have a first round grade on him, but that could’ve been due to his injury history.

He was mainly a zone corner who seemed like a perfect fit for our system. I think injuries were the main reason for his fall. It looks like he will be ready for the regular season though.

[jahnyc]

If one of the two of Benford and Elam end up being a starting caliber corner, it all will be okay.  I seem to recall that there were negatives noted for Elam in the pre-draft reviews, and he did seem to experience a significant rise up draft boards as the draft approached.  I also read recently (can't remember where) a review of recent first round CB picks, and it was kind of shocking the number that were already out of the league, on teams other than the teams that drafted them, or performing poorly.