Addressing the RB position

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, cage said:

 

I agree with all your points!  I just can't see them putting big money behind any back as the Josh era unfolds.  We'll never have cap $ to prioritize that position.  We should be looking in rounds 2-5 pretty regularly to see if we can find a Jonathan Taylor (2nd rd), but otherwise I think we'll be playing with a string of Singletarys and never resigning any of them.  If there's competition for his services, someone else will be willing to pay more than we should, if there's not then he wasn't good enough.

I'm with you.  You don't put the money into RB.  Draft BPA, and that includes RB in rounds 3 and above.  I think it is already time to think about Singletary's (and Moss') replacements.  No need for the $6M+ investment into that position.  Spotrac estimates Patterson at $9M, Fournette and Connor around $6-7M.  The Bills should have nothing to do with that.

 

Usually, I'm on board with the pay your own, a year in advance, philosophy, but not with RB.  Get another r3 RB and groom him for Singletary's role, and then the following year, if it works out, jettison Singletary and pair the new RB with a discounted, disgruntled veteran (like Fournette w Tampa at approx $2M.)

[Peace Frog]

Let Aaron Kromer pick our next RB.

[Motorin']

Jerome Ford would be great in our offense. We'd likely have to take him with our 3rd round pick. I'd really like to get a quality rb this draft, but would want to wait until the 4th round at the earliest. 

 

4th round guys that might be an upgrade over Moss and / or Breida: Pierre Strong Jr., Zonovan Knight (was also a top kick returner), Hassan Haskins, Zamir White, D'Vonta Price. 

 

 

[Gugny]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

Improved OLine talent and coaching will make EVERY running back better. And possibly save Josh’s life. 

 

Exactly.  We don't have a RB problem.

[Thurman#1]

26 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

I doubt if Derrick Henry would be the solution for that time frame, and it would hurt against the cap past his shelf life. Keep drafting cheap late rounders that have little effect on the cap, and let them go when the rookie contract ends. If they are decent and attract a FA contract by someone else, that's great then harvest the compensatory.

 

 

 

Yeah, Derrick Henry now might not. But Derrick Henry as a rookie absolutely was.

 

I'm with you, though, draft mid- to late-rounders fairly regularly.

 

[dave mcbride]

54 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

I have a major Michigan bias, but I love Haskins.  He's not a "speed" guy, but he runs hard and gets ton of yards after contact.  There's not a lot of hesitation and dancing around when he gets the ball - he hits the hole hard and quickly.  He's very effective on screens and slants, when used that way.  He's probably a little bit faster than he's given credit for because of his physical style.  He is a converted LB and seems to stay healthy despite all the contact.  He also has a knack for showing up in big moments (3rd and 4th and short situations) and in big games (5 TD against Ohio State).  He gains yards even when the defense knows the run is coming.  With Haskins on the roster, Josh would not have to be the Bills' short yardage back anymore.  I just saw that he was the 10th rated RB in this draft, so he can likely be had in the mid-to-late rounds.  I think he'd be a great value if available at that point in the draft.

 

I also agree that Breece Hall from Iowa State - a true "speed" back - would also be a great addition.  I have not seen him play nearly as much as I have seen Haskins, but from what I have seen, he's the real deal.  Fast, quick, runs hard, and seems to show up in big moments.

As a person with a UCLA bias, is Haskins the reason that Charbonnet left the program? He was dominant for UCLA this past season and could well have gone in the second at some point had he declared. 

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

As a person with a UCLA bias, is Haskins the reason that Charbonnet left the program? He was dominant for UCLA this past season and could well have gone in the second at some point had he declared. 

 

I don't think it was Haskins alone.  Michigan also has an excellent back in Blake Corum and had recruited 5-star Donovan Edwards.  I think that Charbonnet saw a crowded backfield, combined with a desire to be closer to home (he's from CA) and the poor season Michigan had in 2020 and decided to move on.  It worked out for everyone in that Charbonnet had an excellent season at UCLA and Michigan had a dominant running attack led by Haskins and Corum, with flashes by Edwards.  At the team level, Michigan rebounded from 2-4 to 12-2 and a Big 10 title and playoff apperance and UCLA rebounded from 3-4 to 8-4.

[ColoradoBills]

Singletary is the RB1 and if anyone can beat that out this year that's great, but I doubt it.

 

Zach Moss most likely stays on the roster for this coming season unless some crazy thing happens.  His question would be

whether or not he is RB2 or RB3.  If he is relegated to RB3 that would be the best thing for the team unless he makes big

improvements this season ala Singletary last year.

 

We all see the whole RB2 question as a draft v FA signing.  FA comes first and I get a feeling that it may resemble last year's.

There was a lot of bargains last season and I think there will be some again this year.  It might mean that sites like Spotrac

may be overvaluing a good number of the FA RBs.

 

So I think they should look to FA first and if no bargains are there use a draft pick.

 

Do the Bills get another FB/HB/TE type to replace Gilliam?  What do you draft guys think of Jeremiah Hall from Oklahoma?

Is he worth a late Day3 pick?  

 

[Nextmanup]

Pick up someone on waivers for cheap if you want a new body.

 

If/when our OL improves, I think you'll find that our current RBs improve as well.

 

 

[Dopey]

Jashaun Corbin

RB: FSU

6ft, 217 lbs

 

Anyone who knows anything about FSU football, knows how bad of an oline we've had the last few years. Really bad, not much worse can be found in college football. Even with this, Corbin manage to pull out a 5.75 yd per carry avg. the last 2 year at FSU. I bring him up, because it looks like he can be had with a 6th or 7th rd pick. Having watched him the past 2 years, I would love to see us give him a shot late in the draft or even UDFA. Aside from him, I like Hassan Haskins in the 4th.

[Royale with Cheese]

Does anyone remember the term "waterbug"?

[Jauronimo]

RB is not a position where I am looking for a long-term solution.  

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Let Aaron Kromer pick our next RB.

Let Kromer pick out patio furniture and stay the F@#$ away from personnel decisions that are not OL.

[dbfla10]

malik davis from Florida!

[Ayjent]

13 hours ago, Gordon Lightfoot said:

My friends son who goes to U of Florida is high on Dameon Pierce...KInd of reminds him of Marshawn Lynch....He never got much of an opportunity because the coach wouldn't play him

I watched every game he played in as a Gator alum.  Very good all around back that really put in the work to put on size without compromising his running ability.  Great pass blocker, good hands and powerful. He didn’t get a feature role because the gators didnt really do that with Mullen, it was a committee and those other backs are pretty good in their own right.   He did have 16 TDs this past year and was definitely their red zone back. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Singletary is the RB1 and if anyone can beat that out this year that's great, but I doubt it.

 

Zach Moss most likely stays on the roster for this coming season unless some crazy thing happens.  His question would be

whether or not he is RB2 or RB3.  If he is relegated to RB3 that would be the best thing for the team unless he makes big

improvements this season ala Singletary last year.

 

We all see the whole RB2 question as a draft v FA signing.  FA comes first and I get a feeling that it may resemble last year's.

There was a lot of bargains last season and I think there will be some again this year.  It might mean that sites like Spotrac

may be overvaluing a good number of the FA RBs.

 

So I think they should look to FA first and if no bargains are there use a draft pick.

 

Do the Bills get another FB/HB/TE type to replace Gilliam?  What do you draft guys think of Jeremiah Hall from Oklahoma?

Is he worth a late Day3 pick?  

 

I just see Motor and Moss being the same "type" of player with Motor being better (I was wrong on that one....I didnt realize that Moss had such poor vision)

 

We need a change up in the bullpen BEHIND Motor that can actually be active on game days and not sit on the DNP list......a SPEED back......a guy that can do other things like be a returner.....a value guy

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I agree he doesn't have elite speed, but he has a career 4.7 YPC.  Hard to be better than that.

As well, on outside runs Singletary is well over 5 YPC,

an entire season with Kromer’s blocking schemes that 4.7 is very likely to increase. 

I do think that other positions are of higher priority.

 

[BigAl2526]

16 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Hopefully Moss improves to a decent power/#2 rb.

Regardless, I think we're fine there with Singletary.

I would not spend early picks or FA there. More important issues.

 I want to like Moss, but the problem with depending on him as a power back is he always going to be undersized. He may have power for his size, but power and size go together.  Being smallish, there's only so much power he can pack into his frame.  

[Albany,n.y.]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Hopefully Moss improves to a decent power/#2 rb.

Regardless, I think we're fine there with Singletary.

I would not spend early picks or FA there. More important issues.

Get real.  Moss won't be on the team next year & Singletary is on the last year of his rookie contract.  RB is a HUGE issue.  

[Maine-iac]

Everyone begging for a "speed" back.  If I could pair Motor up with anyone it would be a big back to take some of the big back carries that our QB now takes 100 percent of.  When I say big back I don't mean just anyone like a FB we brought up from the practice squad.  I mean an actual rb who has some size and can carry tacklers.

[Victory Formation]

I haven’t delved too deeply into RB class this year so much, but boy, does it seem to be underwhelming on the top end. I think I’d rather we sign Sony Michel on the sly.

[smuvtalker]

16 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

I like Singletary as a primary backup but I don't see him explosive or fast enough to be starter on title team.  That KC game highlighted his lack of burst and speed on the one series where he failed to hit the open hole fast enough on the 2nd & short play.  I really believe the Bills need to get a 3 down big play RB and that will remove the need for designed Josh Allen run plays which I don't like.  Allen cannot continue to take all these shots,  bring in a RB with burst and great speed and out offence improves from last season. Yes the line needs to do better and maybe add another mauling guard,  but RB position has needed an upgrade for the past two seasons.  Even Beane mentioned it after last season

Absolutely spot on, I couldn't have stated it better if I tried.  I know the play and exact series you're referring to in that game.  But you bring up an even more relevant topic in that having that 3 down, homerun threat back will most certainly lessen the need for a good many of Josh's designed runs.  I won't say that I don't like them, but the more valuable Josh becomes(which I also fully believe he will win his first MVP award next year), the more I hold my breath.  Having that complete back to lighten that load has the potential to work wonders in multiple areas of the offense, almost like a domino effect.  Great point again.

[Nelius]

Agree that we probably need two solid RB pickups. Devin's a keeper and he's earned it, but then you still need a bruiser and a more dynamic speed back since Devin isn't necessarily either.

 

Moss is supposed to be the bruiser and I hope he can get it done but he needs somebody breathing down his neck in camp, somebody that blocks well and bulldozes for 4 ypc. Moss needs to be that dude or gone before Week 1. And then you still need that home run hitter, and considering how close we are, I'm open to anything up to and including Saquon, but I'd prefer a top-3 round draft pick. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:33 PM, smuvtalker said:

Like the great majority of you, I was very happy with the play of Devin Singletary from the last 5 games of the regular season (starting at Tampa) and both playoff games.  I thought he ran with more purpose, was more decisive with his runs, and refused to go down on first contact much more so than early on in the season.  He also became more of a threat catching passes, as evidenced by him having 5 multiple reception games in his last 6 games as opposed to 5 in his first 12.  I'm sure it can be argued that some of his success can be attributed to the improved play of the offensive line, as well as finding the right combination along the line.  

 

As pleased as I was with Singletary, I still ask myself, is he the long term solution at RB we've been looking for?  And personally, I still think we can/should look to upgrade the position.  I know that Beane even said something to the tune of we are always looking to improve at every position.  I like Singletary, I think he's got a good attitude.  When he was demoted he took it in stride, continued to work hard, and when his number was called, he answered the bell.  However, I think he has average speed, and still can be a little indecisive at times when it comes to making a decision which hole to hit, committing to it, making that one cut and taking off.   What I truly fantasize over is that back with that homerun hitting, breakaway speed, the one who's a threat to take it to the house at any given time, from anywhere on the field.  I know they don't grow on trees, but I know they're easier to find than alot of other positions.

 

looked at the top RB prospects coming out this year, and like QB, there doesn't seem to be any "can't miss" stud RBs coming out this year.  The consensus top backs look like Michigan State's Kenneth Walker, Texas A&M's Isaiah Spiller, Notre Dame's Kyren Williams,  Cincinnati's Jerome Ford, and Michigan's Hasaan Haskins.  Per SI's draft board, none of them project as day one picks.  

It's nice knowing that we have a capable guy in Singletary, but I'd love to see us upgrade at the position, and this off-season.  Moss regressed this year IMO, and I have my doubts as to him ever being the featured back in our offense.   

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm more of the "if it's not broken why fix it" types which definitely is the case in this situation, Singletary ran a measley 188 times, still managed to rush for 870 yards, 4.6 YPC average and 7 rush TD's. I wasn't a full season of Singletary as i think he has plenty left to give. Moss was injured in year 2 and I think he will have a much better season as a 1-2 punch to Singletary. I don't mind a mid to late rounder at the position but I don't think we need to be shelling out big bucks.

[GreggTX]

Remember that he spent the offseason weightlifting and adding muscle mass. He has already cut way down on the fumbles. I don't want to spend a 1st even a 2nd on a RB when we need a RDE, CB2, TE2, NT, OL and someone to challenge Davis or replace Beasley if necessary. Perhaps a FA? Moss should be traded if possible and Breida will probably be gone. Speed would be nice. I think Devin can handle the short yardage runs, but a big back would be great in the snow. That's what you want in those bad weather games. Play keepaway and wear them down. In any case, Singletary is a decent starter. In those last few weeks, only 3 other NFL RB's ran for more yards. On top of that, you can count on one hand the number of RB's that are better at picking up yards after contact.

[Niagara Dude]

7 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

Absolutely spot on, I couldn't have stated it better if I tried.  I know the play and exact series you're referring to in that game.  But you bring up an even more relevant topic in that having that 3 down, homerun threat back will most certainly lessen the need for a good many of Josh's designed runs.  I won't say that I don't like them, but the more valuable Josh becomes(which I also fully believe he will win his first MVP award next year), the more I hold my breath.  Having that complete back to lighten that load has the potential to work wonders in multiple areas of the offense, almost like a domino effect.  Great point again.

That one play in that KC game was a play I saw most of the season,  the hole is there and he is not fast enough to get there before it closes. In this league the hole does not stay open long. Singletary relies more on quickness in space to make yards and runs. The thing that people seem to forget is defences are game planning all out to stop the pass with safeties way off the line and extra DB.  Even with an average offensive line your RB should be having some huge games and big games. People look at the 3-4 games to finish the season that Singletary had and I look at the season as a whole , our running game was just not effective enough.  

 

Both Moss & Singletary ran around 4.65 forty yard dashes and that is not fast in this league. I would have no problem maybe trading Beasley to the Giants for Barkley and then resigning McKenzie.  Those moves improve offensive team speed at two positions were looking to get faster at without wasting draft capital and then maybe you spend a 4th or 5th pick and speed RB as a development player who can return kicks on ST'S.

[Pete]

pair Motor with Breece Hall!  The Bills need a RB with speed and receiving ability.  Hall runs a 4.39 and has great hands.  He can run wheel route, and he can take a screen to the house

[Sestak4ever]

It may just come down to our offensive philosophy and play calling. We'll see how Ken Dorsey and McDermott work together. They can extend Josh's career by leaning on the running game more and it also makes play action that much more effective. Singletary may be perfect for the right system along with whoever compliments him or shares the load, whether that be through the draft or free agency.

[JoshAllin]

The motor/moss pair ran for over 1200 yards which looks pretty decent compared to the top rushers. Probably can get an extra 300-400yrds replacing moss. Allen running though would be tough to replace

[Simon Says]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:15 PM, Ross Murdock said:

Rashaad Penny?  Leonard Fournette? He's still just 27. I'm sure the Seahawks want to retain Penny. 

Singletary stats are comparable if not better than Fournette. A lot of love for him probably because of his receiving.  I am rarely interested in signing an "older" RB; due to the wear & tear. Plus ,would Buffalo pay him what he thinks he is worth? Is he willing to compete and probably share reps? A rookie is my preference 

[Saint Doug]

I really like motor, but to be honest, I hold my breath when he runs. He runs extremely violent, refuses to go down, and takes a beating because of this. What happens when he goes down with an injury? We need a very capable RB 1B option as a change of pace option. I would like some bigger than Motor and faster if possible. But not in Rd 1 or 2. We need CB2 and IOL for those picks. 

[Beast]

I don't think the running back position is a spot where a team should be looking for a long term solution. Running is nice and having a good running back is great but I'm not sinking a whole lot of money into the position. Continue to draft these players in the middle to later rounds and show them the door after their rookie deals expire.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Beast

[whorlnut]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:56 PM, Augie said:

Improved OLine talent and coaching will make EVERY running back better. And possibly save Josh’s life. 

I don’t totally agree with this. Is an improved oline gonna make Singletary faster?

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I don’t totally agree with this. Is an improved oline gonna make Singletary faster?

No. But what's that saying...? Why drive when you can fly? Only need someone to get us to the airport.🤣

[Chicharito]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:34 PM, Allen2Diggs said:

We may draft another rb this year, but a veteran option may be Raheem Mostert if the 49'ers don't resign him. 

 

He's coming off an injury that cost him the year and he's nearing 30, but he hasn't had that many carries in the NFL. He ran a 4.32 40 in college and averaged 5.7 ypc in the pros.

I like Mostert a lot but he can’t stay on the field. But with our medical team he maybe could stay healthy. Worth a look.

[ColoradoBills]

I'm hoping Beane shows some FA interest in D'Ernest Johnson as a possible Zach Moss replacement.

He would come pretty cheap and he has excelled when given a chance.  Seems like a process guy and plays ST.

Cleveland probably won't re-sign him if another team gives him anywhere near his $2.6M Spotrac Value.

They got Hunt and Chubb along with 2 other RBs on the books already along with a FB.

 

He had a horrendous 40 time his draft year of 4.8 but supposedly he has brought that down to 4.5.

[Mopreme]

On 2/11/2022 at 12:29 AM, Gordon Lightfoot said:

My friends son who goes to U of Florida is high on Dameon Pierce...KInd of reminds him of Marshawn Lynch....He never got much of an opportunity because the coach wouldn't play him

I really like this guy.  Sleeper. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I don’t totally agree with this. Is an improved oline gonna make Singletary faster?

 

I didn’t say faster. I said better. And he would be. 

 

I will agree that we could use more speed on offense, and I hope we find it before next season. Who that might be is beyond me, but I’m sure it’s a priority. 

[T master]

I think Motor should stay with the Bills but i don't believe he is the answer he can be a part of the answer but there needs to be another piece & that isn't Moss IMHO !!! 

 

He is the same size as Motor & has less moves i hope that Beane uses him for some kind of trade to get some one that can help either in the run game or else where on the team .

 

I thought they should have given Antonio Williams more carries just to see if he could continue where he left off from the Miami game & i know a lot of people here may not agree but i would have loved to see Christian Wade get a game with some carries to see what if anything he had leaned or could do .

 

He showed great burst in some games in the pre season but was never given any carries i believe during the season which i guess the coaches see him every day & know more than i but i would have liked to have seen him try any way he couldn't have done any worse than Moss did the couple of times he was in there .

 

I would hope to they get a bigger back in the 6 ' say 235 lb range for goal line and short yardage .

[smuvtalker]

8 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I really like motor, but to be honest, I hold my breath when he runs. He runs extremely violent, refuses to go down, and takes a beating because of this. What happens when he goes down with an injury? We need a very capable RB 1B option as a change of pace option. I would like some bigger than Motor and faster if possible. But not in Rd 1 or 2. We need CB2 and IOL for those picks. 

You bring up a very valid point.  I think because not many people on here look at Singletary as THE guy, coupled with the fact that he has never truly wowed us with many uber productive games (125+ yards rushing), we've never really had to think about how we would perform without him.  In thinking about it, I am a little bit nervous at the idea of it just being Moss as the featured back.  It would put serious unnecessary pressure on Josh, and I thank God Daboll is gone if only just for that scenario, because I can see him calling an obscene number of designed QB runs.  

I'll be honest, I had extremely high hopes when Buffalo signed Breida in the off-season.  I even envisioned him competing for the starting job at some point in the season, and the game against the Jets on 11/14 where he had a rushing and receiving TD, I thought to myself okay here we go.  But I guess the fumble issues he had in both the running game and return game saw him fall out of favor with McDermott.  Sadly, Breida has that homerun potential we all crave, and is a certified threat to take it to the house whenever the ball is in his hands.  I would have liked to see him get more of a chance to run with the 1st team.  What is his current contract situation?  

[hondo in seattle]

Jim Kelly had Thurman Thomas.  It would be beyond awesome if we could find Allen's Thurm.

 

But we already have two 3rd round backs.  I don't want another. 

 

Motor wasn't bad last year.  I don't want to waste cap space or draft picks on a RB unless we're convinced the new guy is a true upgrade.