Anyone else get annoyed when people say Josh Allen’s first 2 seasons were terrible?

[Norcalbillsfan]

In my opinion the media does it to hype up Allen, commentators and reports can't say " he's been improving over his career and looks great." They need it to be way more grabby, like Allen arose from a burning dumpster and grew angel wings this year. They want people to tune in to watch josh Allen who defied all odds bringing the under dog blue collar buffalo bills to the play offs.

[Pirate Angel]

Dree Brees first 2 seasons where terrible, Brady and Rodgers didnt play their first 2. It's not where you start but where you finish

[Mr. WEO]

let it go...

[Mickey]

It annoyed me more when I heard that kind of lazy criticism here. I especially could be harsh when I heard the common complaint that "Allen has to be better" as if we would waive him if all he did was match his 2nd year performance and get us into the playoffs with two weeks to spare.  Most commonly though, there were posts about how the poster really liked Josh and they were totally supporting him before going into a lengthy dissertation on the overwhelming proof that he was a terrible QB who would never improve. 

 

Thankfully, all that is over, for now. 

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Even after yesterday? 

Haven’t talked to them yet haha. I figured I would give them a few days to digest that heart break😏

[QLBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I mean it's annoying that it's lazy but I could really care less, usually because the ones that say it are usually lazy reporters who I don't care much about.

Exactly who cares. Those who watched all of his games saw obvious potential. Arm strength ,athleticism and maybe his most underrated asset-leadership. Not sure others who are flopping around year one or two right now compare. Herbert and Burrow are exceptions. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said:

Dree Brees first 2 seasons where terrible, Brady and Rodgers didnt play their first 2. It's not where you start but where you finish

 

NE won a SB in Brady's second season.  He was 11-3 , was SB MVP and went to the PB.

 

Brees appeared in one game his first season.  He started 6-1 and finished 8-8 his second season. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[Special K]

After Tua’s rookie season, the pundits say that he struggled because he didn’t have any weapons to throw to.

 

After Allen’s rookie year, these same pundits laughed at Allen and considered him a joke, without ever mentioning the fact that his two receivers were the propped up corpse of Kelvin Benjamin and Zay “hands of stone” Jones. 

 

Why do do some guys get the benefit of the doubt, when others do not??

[Doc]

Just now, Special K said:

After Tua’s rookie season, the pundits say that he struggled because he didn’t have any weapons to throw to.

 

After Allen’s rookie year, these same pundits laughed at Allen and considered him a joke, without ever mentioning the fact that his two receivers were the propped up corpse of Kelvin Benjamin and Zay “hands of stone” Jones. 

 

Why do do some guys get the benefit of the doubt, when others do not??

 

Not just that, look at the OL.  They lost their 2 best OL in Wood and Incognito.

[Pirate Angel]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NE won a SB in Brady's second season.  He was 11-3 , was SB MVP and went to the PB.

You're right, but he sat for a period of time, had no expectations of him when he did start. He was entrenched into a perfect situation, great defense, great coach, solid offense and cheated. 

[Malazan]

No, why should I care?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NE won a SB in Brady's second season.  He was 11-3 , was SB MVP and went to the PB.

 

Brees appeared in one game his first season.  He started 6-1 and finished 8-8 his second season. 

Those pesky facts again....

[4merper4mer]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NE won a SB in Brady's second season.  He was 11-3 , was SB MVP and went to the PB.

 

 

Congrats but that’s all over now.

[Penfield45]

33 minutes ago, Special K said:

After Tua’s rookie season, the pundits say that he struggled because he didn’t have any weapons to throw to.

 

After Allen’s rookie year, these same pundits laughed at Allen and considered him a joke, without ever mentioning the fact that his two receivers were the propped up corpse of Kelvin Benjamin and Zay “hands of stone” Jones. 

 

Why do do some guys get the benefit of the doubt, when others do not??

 

this is what makes me mad

 

Do ppl not realize Tua's completion % and stats are propped up by all those screens and 3 yard throws? Allen had none of that, and was on a FAR worse team but he was considered a joke and Baker was the star

[Big Blitz]

Is this someone from WGR doing a focus group?

[TheBrownBear]

I didn't really take issue with the national media and general public's takes heading into this year, because all that they really knew of Josh was that he was wildly inaccurate and underwhelming (statistically) in college, that his completion percentage was still bad as a pro, and that he freaked out and nearly singlehandedly tried to choke away last year's playoff game.

 

On the other hand, we had the opportunity to watch all of his games closely and could see a fairly clear progression in his play from his first handful of games to the end of his first season, and a similar progression in year two.  I knew he was a QB we could win with by the end of 2018.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

If they're saying that it's because they're now admitting they were wrong based on their bias and big media perception. They're just hedging their confession and outing themselves as jokes. 

 

This. There are two common refrains from the media people that have hated on him since day 1:

 

1) Bills fans were wrong to be optimistic about Allen, he just happened to beat the odds and we got lucky.

 

2) If Allen had been drafted by the Jets he would be a bust and if Darnold had been drafted by the Bills he would be a star.

 

So basically they pretend Allen only turned out good because of pure circumstance and luck, rather than admit they were wrong about him being a bust.

 

I was completely against drafting Allen but even I knew by the end of his first season he was not a bust. It was just a matter of when the improvement would stop. The people that thought he was a bust after year one or two were either jaded beyond repair Bills fans or analysts that clearly didn't watch every game.

 

I really love the people that say Allen walked into a perfect situation and Brian Daboll is a QB whisperer. Go look at Allen's supporting cast in 2018 and 2019 and see the offenses Daboll had before he had a generational QB and generational WR fall into his lap. People will say anything rather than admit they were just wrong about him.

[Freddie's Dead]

[billsfan714]

Not at all.    It's been a steady progression.   First year got throw in before they wanted but still showed some wow with his legs, dont think anybody was really talking about that pre-draft.   Year 2 showed steady improvement, more TDs than INts, more yards, better completion percentage.    Then in year 3 it all came together.   So its not like in year one and two and you couldn't have doubts about him.

[BillsFan2313]

No

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

Has Allen hit the ceiling or is there more?  Can he take over the play calling and run the show like Kelly did or like Manning or Rodgers?  I don't know but I'm not betting against Allen.  The kid is special.

I’d say there is more simply because if you add a stud RB orTight End to this offense, It’s just more problems.  He can make every throw ever made, read defenses, now he’s adding pump fakes and eyes to manipulate coverages, and it seems like he’s just starting to play more with his touch passes.

 

If the Bills figure out how to keep adding dynamic weapons and they continue to work hard, scheme hard and drive for success, this is going to be the ride of a Bills fanhood lifetime 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Teams are gonna keep qb's they should otherwise move on from because of Josh Allen - like Tua

 

Allens stats his first 2 years were sub par but if you actually watched his games he was fine/average/slightly below except during opening drives and in the fourth qtr where he was great - even as a rookie he was good in during these times. 

 

The media that is saying Allen huge progression and why you need to take time never actually watched him play just looked at stats - the guy led the league in game winning drives last season

 

[Motorin']

4 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think a lot of us saw a long run of professional competency coming. 

 

But nobody saw this coming. 

Idk man, this is pretty much what I assumed people meant when they said he had the highest ceiling. I didn't see him getting here this soon, and was all in on patience. 

[eball]

It’s all good. Unless you’re a Bills fan (or have to listen to one all the time) you likely viewed Allen as a mediocre QB prior to this season. Only those who really watched the Bills saw the growth and potential, and even some of those people didn’t think he’d get much better. I’ve posted about how rare Josh is, and how necessary it was to look beyond the stats, so many times I’ve forgotten, but I don’t hold grudges against non-Bills fans who didn’t see it. Even in his rookie season look how Josh elevated those around him. Foster is an afterthought in this league now but Josh had us believing he might be a WR1!

 

Anyway, like I said, it’s all good. I mean, prior to the first game this season the favorite comment on the Jets’ board was about the RB the Bills had playing QB. 

 

They’re quiet now. 

[thurst44]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I mean it's annoying that it's lazy but I could really care less, usually because the ones that say it are usually lazy reporters who I don't care much about.

Yeah, agreed here, although it is a major pet peeve of mine when writers try to twist facts to fit an established narrative instead of letting said facts tell the story. Not that I haven't done it myself at times 😕

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NE won a SB in Brady's second season.  He was 11-3 , was SB MVP and went to the PB.

 

Brees appeared in one game his first season.  He started 6-1 and finished 8-8 his second season. 

 

Let it go....

 

10-6 > 8-8.

 

[RobbRiddick]

There'sno doubt the media guys (and fans of other teams in general) are lazy when it comes to this stuff. Allen made a lot of mistakes year one but the eye test so many of us kept talking about showed that he had the it factor.

 

I remember being worried about him pre elbow injury because he didn't seem to be improving week to week and the game didn;t appear to be slowing down. But then when he came back from the injury he finally looked like he was starting to get it.

 

Another lazy rhetoric about him is that the Bills brought him into a great situation where they'd already rebuilt the roster. They forget who he was playing with on offense that first year. The mighty Zay Jones, Benjamin and an offensive line made up almost entirely of guys who are now either out of the league or bouncing around on practice squads. 

[Doc Brown]

Before this season I stated the national media underrated Josh Allen while the fans here overrated him.  I think the fans turned out to be right.  It helps explain why the national media is surprised he's playing at an MVP level and why fans are pissed that they are that surprised.

[BillsFanSD]

Honestly, yes.  Allen was raw and he clearly wasn't as good in year 1 or year 2 as he is now, but he was never "terrible."  For reasons that there's no need to relitigate, Allen attracts a lot of unnecessary hyperbole.  If you watched Allen during his first year and especially during his second year, you saw a QB who had immense talent but was still learning the game and adjusting to the NFL.  There was no guarantee that he would get there -- many development-type guys never fully blossom because the NFL is hard -- but describing him as "terrible" or "awful" or "stupid" or whatever is too harsh and way too personal.  I'd don't mind admitting that it rubs me the wrong way.

[Matt_In_NH]

I saw rawness. I saw talent. I saw desire.  I saw passion.   But I had no idea he would turn into what we have watched this year.  

[Simon]

4 hours ago, Motorin' said:

Idk man, this is pretty much what I assumed people meant when they said he had the highest ceiling. I didn't see him getting here this soon, and was all in on patience. 

Yeah, that's definitely part of what I mean. 

Nobody thought he'd suddenly be right there challenging Mahomes for the title of best QB on the planet.

[Mr. K]

Nathan Peterman was horrible. EJ Manuel was horrible. Josh Allen has arrived. In the what have you done for me lately NFL, 4000+ yards 40+ tds 13-3. Does it really matter?

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it annoys the crap outta me. His rookie season he was a raw QB that was learning on the job and definitely didn’t play terrible, but didn’t play great either. Year #2 Josh looked like an above average QB that needed to take a step forward but was trending in the right direction. Year #3 he jumps into elite status and all you hear is how did this happen since he was sooooo terrible the past 2 years?!?!

 

It’s like.....did you even watch a Bills game the past 2 seasons or did you only watch the playoff game?

 

Meh... his first season was pretty terrible at times. It wasn't without promise in the context of a rookie QB but comparing it to the mean level of QB play in the NFL you could definitely call it terrible. Year 2 was definitively not terrible. He took a big step year 1 to year 2 and he was a league average starting QB in 2019 (albeit playing a pretty favourable schedule). He took another big step year 2 to 3 from kind 16th best Quarterback in the NFL to sort of undisputed top 5 Quarterback in the NFL (and top 3 this season, without much doubt). 

 

I think when people say he was terrible as a rookie I look at the way a lot of rookies have been able to come in and play in recent years (even Burrow and Herbert this year) and think I can see where they are coming from.... the people who say he was terrible for two years didn't watch him play enough in 2019. 

[machine gun kelly]

Bother, no, annoyed at what little my friends don’t know about the bills and the evolution, yes.

 

Its really not a big deal.  I hope the longer the nation undervalues the Bills the better.

[JMF2006]

Who cares what the outside world thinks?

 

I read a post in a gameday thread on Phins something or other that people felt Josh would be a bust based on his first year....I think they were trying to defend Tua.

 

But a bust? he passed my eyeball test he had/has it all.

 

And he needed was to be cleaned up and polished like a barn find car  

 

Tua on the other hand has not shown me much in the multiple games I have watched.

 

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

It bothers me.  The level Josh is on now no one could have seen.  But he was a very good quarterback last year who made some young-QB mistakes and needed to add touch on the deep ball.  From day 1 he displayed elite leadership, competitiveness, movement skills and arm strength.  So it bothers me a lot when they suggest Allen was not good last year.  It bothered me greatly when all the media this year said the big question for the Bills was at quarterback.  It bothered me when the Jets fans around me were insistent Darnold was better in years 1 & 2 (it was obvious to me he wasn't).  I think the storyline that this year came out of the blue short-changes the young man on all the work he put in the prior years and all he showed on the field which, while imperfect, was winning QB play for a year 1 and year 2 QB.

[Magox]

I remember warming up to Josh Allen the week leading up to the draft even though I really wanted Baker followed by Rosen.  The more I kept seeing video of Allen the more I realized that the analysis that he was inaccurate was off.   A lot of it was the sort of vertical low % plays they ran and his bad mechanics.  Watching him on those broken extended plays and rollouts I thought “man, this guy can make plays that very few others can on this planet”.

 

His rookie year with the Bills he wasn’t ready to be a drop back passer.  But what jumped out was his competitiveness and athleticism.  The guy had a burning desire to make plays.   I knew after that Dolphins game which I happened to go to in Miami that we had found our franchise QB.   The swag he brought to the team was exhilarating and he improved his processing of the game as the season wore down improving his passing numbers.

 

Then he worked his ass off in the off season and improved his mechanics.  He showed steady progression through the year and my belief was that we had a very gifted player albeit still raw who is ultra competitive, very intelligent and that is committed to being the best player he could be.  That combination gave me a lot of confidence that he would continue to ascend and watching him with all those comeback wins, high 4th quarter QB rating was just another data point that affirmed my belief that he was going to be something special during his 2nd year.

 

I knew he would come out strong this year and believed he was going to be borderline pro bowl level but never did I think he would come out this good this soon.  He is just seeing everything right now and if defenses confuse him early on he has shown the mental ability to diagnose what the defense is doing after a few series to then just torch them later on, like what we just saw in Miami and Pittsburgh.  How many times have we seen an opposing defense just suffocate our offense and the game turn around in an instant?  Not often.

 

The guy is like an AI learning machine.  An equation he hasn’t seen early on may confound him but after a few series he diagnoses the problem and learns from it, in game.   That’s next level QB’ing and there are only about 5-8 guys who can do that.

 

He is only going on to get better, the OC will give him more leeway to have more input in game planning and changing calls at the line and he will just dominate the mental aspect of this game like what he is doing now.  
 

I think the Bills like Favre said will dominate the AFC East for the next decade.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

You're right, but he sat for a period of time, had no expectations of him when he did start. He was entrenched into a perfect situation, great defense, great coach, solid offense and cheated. 

 

While Brady was sitting his rookie year, the Offense was 25th in points scored.  His first year as starter they went to 6th.  Same coach was 5-11 with Bledsoe.

 

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Congrats but that’s all over now.

 

Nope, correcting BS never ends. 

 

2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

 

Let it go....

 

10-6 > 8-8.

 

 

Dude said they never played/were terrible.  I was correcting a fact-free post.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Special K said:

After Tua’s rookie season, the pundits say that he struggled because he didn’t have any weapons to throw to.

 

After Allen’s rookie year, these same pundits laughed at Allen and considered him a joke, without ever mentioning the fact that his two receivers were the propped up corpse of Kelvin Benjamin and Zay “hands of stone” Jones. 

 

Why do do some guys get the benefit of the doubt, when others do not??

 

I don't know what you have been watching the last 48 hours but everything I have watched, read, listened to is killing Tua. He is getting zero benefit of any doubt. 

[nucci]

they are not saying he was terrible. They are amazed at his big jump from year 2 to 3....as we all are