Jerry Hughes Do U Bring Him Back or Let Him Walk ?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I hear what you are saying, but that isnt a great selling point for why it was better to sign those 3 guys over our own guys who were producing.

 

The new guys are easily cuttable... I'd rather have guys I dont want to cut.

 

Yea, it's definitely an interesting debate because I can see both sides, but i'd rather have the flexibility to cut non-core guys on defense to keep guys like Williams and Feliciano on offense if it comes down to it.   We wouldn't have that option with a re-signed Shaq and/or Phillips.

 

We have a stud on every level of the defense (assuming they play to their ability):

 

S- Poyer

CB - White

LB - Edmunds

DL - Oliver

 

Spend, spend, spend on Offense and just fill in around those guys.  I'd rather not be locked into all kinds of deals on defense in this modern day NFL.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not sure I am following your reasons for cutting him. 

We need to add a dominating DE. Will Epenesa grow up to be one ? Not sure yet and before next season, we should add another draft/FA.

 

But, I want Hughes to retire a Bill. Fantastic trade that got him here. 

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

It really comes down to price/cap hit for Jerry Hughes length of contract

 

I'm all for resigning him or extending him. There is no reason not to. His play has come down but he isn't exorbitantly over paid.

 

Extend him and give him more money up front while lowering his cap is a win win in my opinion

 

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

So, you are saying that he wont be a dominant pass rusher. Which makes it imperative that we add one. Star coming back next season should help the interior of the line. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

So, you are saying that he wont be a dominant pass rusher. Which makes it imperative that we add one. Star coming back next season should help the interior of the line. 

 

Correct. It would be a nice surprise, but I dont think he'll ever be "dominant" at anything.

 

Shaq was a 1st rounder who started for powerhouse Clemson.

Epenesa is a late 2nd rounder from a smaller Big 10 program.

 

AJ is more akin to Chris Kelsay (2nd rounder, Nebraska) than anyone else we've had around.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Pressure is probably more important than sacks.  Sacks are great, but a fair amount of the time its from coverage, the QB holding the ball etc.  Hell, half of phillips sacks last year were a result of hughes and lawson more than anything phillips did.  

Yeah but do you want to lose Feliciano or Williams only to hang on to a dwindling veteran for one more year? I think you cut Morse, cut Hughes, cut Addison, Jefferson and Butler and you sign Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Isaiah McKenzie and Levi Wallace.. if at all possible you also cut Micah Hyde.. Milano goes too unless he’s on a cheap prove it deal.. trade down at least once, maybe twice.. Defense needs to be gutted like a fish.. Offense is good except for center or guard (depending on where we put Feliciano) and TE..

 

Time to unload cap and get ready for Josh’s extension..

35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

I feel really good about Epenesa.. I think he can be a 10 sack per year guy.. I like him a lot..

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Still the best end on the team and likely not breaking the bank. Keep. 

[Stank_Nasty]

first time clicking into this thread. i havnt read a single post, but i'm willing to bet the word "pressures" has come up 80-100 times already.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Hughes gets very good pressure and is solid vs the run. I think he has at least 2 good years left in him. With all these athletic QB and quick passing games sacks are hard to find. You want your DE’s to get pressure and contain/gap control and that’s what Hughes does best. Hughes will be a 7 to 10 sack DE into age 35 then he will start to fall off.

[ALLEN1QB]

Hit the road jack ......

[Kwai San]

By all means let one of the better D players walk and take the cap hit too!  Sheesh......

[mjt328]

1.  Brandon Beane has already pretty much spent us to the salary cap. 

2.  Thanks to the virus cutting back fan attendance, the cap is expected to drop over the next few years (it has historically risen each year).

3.  The Bills will likely be giving Josh Allen an extension, before 2021 is finished.

 

Not to mention, our list of free agents is pretty extensive.  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/  The list includes guys like Jon Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Andre Roberts, Isaiah McKenzie, Matt Milano, Josh Norman and Levi Wallace.  Not to mention depth pieces like Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, Ty Nsekhe, Brian Winters, Matt Barkley, Dean Marlow, Justin Zimmer and Ike Boettger.

 

Unfortunately, we are to the point where money is going to start dictating whether we can keep players or not.  This is where Beane's drafting skills will need to start showing, so that we don't see a drop-off when the veterans leave for more $$.  

 

Personally, I would love to keep Jerry Hughes in a Bills uniform until he retires or shows regression.  But one of the main reasons we drafted AJ Epenesa was to slide into that rotation to replace Hughes or Mario Addison.  He may need to be ready for significant snaps next season.  

 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Keep:

 

Hughes - Addison - Epenesa - Johnson 

 

Keep: 

 

Oliver - Star 

 

Move on from:

 

Murphy & Butler

 

Toss-up:

 

Jefferson & Harry (I would cut/trade one of them and draft a rotational DT in the middle rounds )

 

 

 

 

I think this is a very reasonable take.

 

As for Jerry Hughes, I see no reason why we should move on from him once his contract is up the following year.

 

Yes, he is 32, but I have not seen any real evidence that he is slowing down as a player. I dare say that he could still be a good DE for another 3-4 years for us.

 

That doesn't mean that we should not try to get better at the position. We still don't know what we quite have with Epenesa. Defensive End should be one of the top positions that we address during the offseason.

[thenorthremembers]

Id add another year to his contract but rework it to keep him for less.

[gordong]

What young guy takes his place??  We have no young guy to fill in and NOT be a HUGE drop off... so unless you are going out and getting someone better (and even then swap him to the other side) you keep him...   

[Victory Formation]

36 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Hughes gets very good pressure and is solid vs the run. I think he has at least 2 good years left in him. With all these athletic QB and quick passing games sacks are hard to find. You want your DE’s to get pressure and contain/gap control and that’s what Hughes does best. Hughes will be a 7 to 10 sack DE into age 35 then he will start to fall off.

He’s only gotten 7-10 sacks three times over his 11 year career.. Defense needs to be rebuilt now, we need that cap space for Allen.. and I assume that Diggs will eventually want more money.. Daryl Williams has been great, he needs to be re-signed as does Feliciano..

 

Defense needs a youth movement in the worst way.. Definitely think Levi Wallace should get signed to a cheap 2 year deal.. Him and Dane have shown promise at corner... young n cheap.. I would keep Poyer because in my mind he is the heart and soul of this defense but all the other expensive contracts need to be dumped or traded for draft picks..

 

Poyer, Epenesa, White, Edmunds, Oliver, Jackson, Wallace, Johnson and Zimmer should be the young nuclei we build around.. Start over.. Defense is getting paid too much and they suck.. Need to add a center in the draft and everything else should go towards defense.. trade down if you have to..

[GunnerBill]

In my ideal world I'd move on from Jerry and Addison but I don't think you can do both in one go (and Murphy is a gonner) because it leaves you with Epenesa and Johnson and nothing else. 

 

I'd rather keep Jerry of the two but he costs less to move on from. I can see him leaving. 

[Victory Formation]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

In my ideal world I'd move on from Jerry and Addison but I don't think you can do both in one go (and Murphy is a gonner) because it leaves you with Epenesa and Johnson and nothing else. 

 

I'd rather keep Jerry of the two but he costs less to move on from. I can see him leaving. 

Well, I think you gotta do a salary dump now.. By the time we do Josh’s contract we’ll have plenty of space.. And be honest, if we spent like 6 or 7 picks on defense, do you really think we’d be worst off? I mean, defense is McD’s forte, if you give him an entire draft to build our defense you’d think that we’d have a pretty solid unit.. And our cap situation would be phenomenal for the next 4-5 years..

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Exactly.

 

If the cap drops significantly, it will be a problem for EVERY team. And no way the NFL doesnt come up with some forgiveness program, or changes the rules for an off year.

 

What are they going to do? Force teams to cut all the high-priced guys and leave them out of work for a year? No.

 

Read awhile back they may go to a system where they take what would be the likely 2022 "normal cap" assuming full fans in attendance next season, etc and then take the average of the two so that could bump the cap up to around $190 M it stated.

 

If he's still under contract hard to bring him back a reasonable price as then you are only hurting yourself down the road. Can certainly see deals that can be broken with little cap hit happening, but not if the hit is $9 mil as someone stated.

 

Having said all that can see next year being the Bills best window to win as schedule should be easier as will play both NFC and AFC south.  Both those divisions have at most likely 2 strong teams and that's assuming Brady, Brees, and Rivers still are able to play at a high level.  Likely also need to face Pitt and KC which won't be easy, but even there Big Ben could also be ready to fall apart.

[Rc2catch]

I think I would let him walk. 
I don’t think he’s totally over the hill. 
But I don’t think he’ll be worth his next contract either. 
Ive liked Hughes during his time here, but he has to be the most hated player by almost all officials in the league. That man gets abused week in and week out and they almost never call anything. After what’s happened this season I’m all in for a youth movement on the line. Fresh blood that’s hungry. And cheaper. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

55 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

He’s only gotten 7-10 sacks three times over his 11 year career.. Defense needs to be rebuilt now, we need that cap space for Allen.. and I assume that Diggs will eventually want more money.. Daryl Williams has been great, he needs to be re-signed as does Feliciano..

 

Defense needs a youth movement in the worst way.. Definitely think Levi Wallace should get signed to a cheap 2 year deal.. Him and Dane have shown promise at corner... young n cheap.. I would keep Poyer because in my mind he is the heart and soul of this defense but all the other expensive contracts need to be dumped or traded for draft picks..

 

Poyer, Epenesa, White, Edmunds, Oliver, Jackson, Wallace, Johnson and Zimmer should be the young nuclei we build around.. Start over.. Defense is getting paid too much and they suck.. Need to add a center in the draft and everything else should go towards defense.. trade down if you have to..

I can see the argument from both sides, but if we could keep Hughes for 2 more years for around 16 mil I would rather keep him. 

[JGMcD2]

4 hours ago, T master said:

Although Jerry has been a constant for those here complaining how he's not that good and he's getting old yet he still continues to apply pressure in every game add to it his leadership on the D then given the fact his age and isn't this the last year of his current contract ? 🤔

 

Do you bring him back next year to continue what he has been doing or do you pull a Belly check and get rid of him to allow your younger players to get more playing time to become a bigger part of the D moving forward ?

 

 I know we still have quite a few games to go this season but the off season will be upon us before we know it and there will be some tough decisions to be made as far as who to keep and who to let go given the loyalty McD and company has had with players such as Kyle , Zo, do you bring Jerry back ?

 

I think he is a very important piece to this D what he can pass on is priceless to the younger players !! Not to mention his actions speak louder than words .

 

I would like to see him finish his career as a Bills for one there aren't nearly as many players that spend their career for the most part with 1 team . I know we got Jerry from Indy but the best of his career has happened here and he has given the Bills and the fans all he can when he's on the field so do you bring him back or do you let him walk ???

 

If this subject has been posted recently my apologies !! 

Did you come from the future? He’s under contract for 2021... ask me after next season. 
 

In all seriousness I would probably try to extend him through 2022 and decrease the cap hit in 2021. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Hebert19]

Hometown discount yes

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Think we need a youth movement on defense.. I’d keep Epenesa and Daryl Johnson.. Addison, Hughes, Butler and Jefferson I’d move on from.. take that money and extend Daryl Williams and Jon Feliciano.. Trade down in the draft a few times, reload...

There is going to be a youth movement on the team next Year.  Defensive line, and so on.  We can’t spend a ton of $ on free agency given the Covid cap thing, so our draft will be eaten up with defensive lineman, cornerback, tight end etc. it’s the smart move and hopefully Epenesa responds with a good finish this year.

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Think we need a youth movement on defense.. I’d keep Epenesa and Daryl Johnson.. Addison, Hughes, Butler and Jefferson I’d move on from.. take that money and extend Daryl Williams and Jon Feliciano.. Trade down in the draft a few times, reload...

Butler is a must go IMO, Jefferson has had moments, yet being him only costs us $1.5m off the cap next year I can move on from that. Toss in Murphy is off the books we then have to find a depth DE that can develop either in the mid rounds of the draft or sign an UFA who could produce 5 or more sacks on the season. In terms of the draft I stay put and try to get a top end TE in the 1st or maybe find a G/C as am not sold on Ford and Morse's long term status could be in question. Yet CB and LB could also be possibilities. In UFA I would target Tarik Cohen though as he'd be a speed back we need. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

100%

[Beast]

He's at the age that you let him walk.

[LABILLBACKER]

58 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think I would let him walk. 
I don’t think he’s totally over the hill. 
But I don’t think he’ll be worth his next contract either. 
Ive liked Hughes during his time here, but he has to be the most hated player by almost all officials in the league. That man gets abused week in and week out and they almost never call anything. After what’s happened this season I’m all in for a youth movement on the line. Fresh blood that’s hungry. And cheaper. 

You can't ignore the blackballing he receives from the refs. That is permanent and will never end. Draft the best pass rusher you can in the 1st. Pair him up with AJ.  Murphy and Addison are likely gone. 

[Victory Formation]

27 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

There is going to be a youth movement on the team next Year.  Defensive line, and so on.  We can’t spend a ton of $ on free agency given the Covid cap thing, so our draft will be eaten up with defensive lineman, cornerback, tight end etc. it’s the smart move and hopefully Epenesa responds with a good finish this year.

Ya know.. I really like Epenesa.. I think he was a good pick and I still think he was a good pick.. He’ll be a 8-10 sack per year kind of guy while stuffing the run.. I’m excited for him, probably a lot more excited than most but I think he’ll be good, real good!

 

White is another guy I still like.. sure he’s made a few mistakes but I still think he is a top 10 corner when all is said and done..

 

So between Epenesa and White, I think we got two crucial pieces nailed down.. a great prospect at DE and a very good corner.. Edmunds should be moved into Milano’s role.. Milano walks.. You don’t pay top dollar for an often injured player.. he needs to go.. Poyer is an elite safety, very few in the NFL are better than him.. He’s the QB of our secondary.. with a true MLB to QB our front seven, I think we’ll be just fine..

 

So ideally we draft another ILB, a NT, a DE, a FS, a CB and we’re cooking.. whole defense would be locked up for next to nothing for the next 4-5 years going into Allen’s prime.. Pay offense, draft defense.. McD is a defensive cannoisseur, he can find starters all throughout the draft.. offense is harder for us to replenish.. Hyde, Hughes, Butler, Jefferson, Addison, Murphy, Norman and Gaines all need to go.. Need to find us a big fat NT like Ted Washington to plug in next to Star and our run game is fixed.. We’d be in good shape to extend Allen and give Diggs a pay bump..

[DCofNC]

It’s all price dependent, but he’s not the problem with the D, he’s also not the long term solution.  If he expects a huge deal, see ya.  If he’s willing to take a deal similar to Addison’s then yes.   Age is a factor as well, as a smaller, speed type guy, I fear his decline may be faster than some, you need what amounts to a multi-year, year at a time deal with minimum signing bonus in exchange for a higher guarantee this year.

[FarrellsFinest]

Had a good career. Time to go now. Let him walk. 

[Victory Formation]

33 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Butler is a must go IMO, Jefferson has had moments, yet being him only costs us $1.5m off the cap next year I can move on from that. Toss in Murphy is off the books we then have to find a depth DE that can develop either in the mid rounds of the draft or sign an UFA who could produce 5 or more sacks on the season. In terms of the draft I stay put and try to get a top end TE in the 1st or maybe find a G/C as am not sold on Ford and Morse's long term status could be in question. Yet CB and LB could also be possibilities. In UFA I would target Tarik Cohen though as he'd be a speed back we need. 

With Morse — you’re absolutely right, he should go! $11M/yr for an average center who can’t get push in the run game with extensive medical issues?? Yeah, he’s as good as gone.. Cody Ford on the other hand, he’s making $1.3M/yr and he has the strength and power to be a very good guard.. he can also play RT if say Daryl Williams were to get injured.. I see absolutely no good coming out of it if we cut Ford, no good at all.

 

Feliciano and Williams need to be retained... they’re both very good at what they do.. I would offer Feliciano the same contract Spain got... Daryl Williams on the other hand I’d offer $10M a year.. either way, I think these two must be retained for various reasons... 1. Allen is our franchise QB — he needs to be protected at all costs. 2. We’re maybe one or two OL away from having a dominant line that can pound the ball. 3. It’s harder for us to draft offense than it is defense.. McD can find defensive talent all throughout the draft.. OL though? Not as good..

[The Jokeman]

20 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

With Morse — you’re absolutely right, he should go! $11M/yr for an average center who can’t get push in the run game with extensive medical issues?? Yeah, he’s as good as gone.. Cody Ford on the other hand, he’s making $1.3M/yr and he has the strength and power to be a very good guard.. he can also play RT if say Daryl Williams were to get injured.. I see absolutely no good coming out of it if we cut Ford, no good at all.

 

Feliciano and Williams need to be retained... they’re both very good at what they do.. I would offer Feliciano the same contract Spain got... Daryl Williams on the other hand I’d offer $10M a year.. either way, I think these two must be retained for various reasons... 1. Allen is our franchise QB — he needs to be protected at all costs. 2. We’re maybe one or two OL away from having a dominant line that can pound the ball. 3. It’s harder for us to draft offense than it is defense.. McD can find defensive talent all throughout the draft.. OL though? Not as good..

Feliciano injuries are worrisome as he missed time in 2017, 2018 and now 2020 so yes, keep him around but be smart about it, I like Williams a lot, he is a a solid RT. 

[appoo]

He's not a free agent. Next year he's got a cap hit of $9.4M, and dead cap of $2.1M

 

You keep Hughes, and then you cut Mario Addison, which frees up $6.2M .  Vernon Butler will also be cut, saving another $6.8M.

 

But yea, I'd be VERY surprised if they cut Jerry. 

[B-Man]

Let him go.

 

He is good.

 

others are better.

 

Look forward.

 

 

 

[GreggTX]

That RDE position is so important now. He'll be too old to give us a competitive advantage when his contract runs out. He has made some plays this year, but we need to be very strong at DE and CB especially. We have a lot of so-so DE's on our roster and no really good ones.

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Exactly.

 

If the cap drops significantly, it will be a problem for EVERY team. And no way the NFL doesnt come up with some forgiveness program, or changes the rules for an off year.

 

What are they going to do? Force teams to cut all the high-priced guys and leave them out of work for a year? No.

 

The NFL will likely in my opinon borrow from future years to avoid the 175 cap number. Basically making the cap number 20 million higher in 2021 and just having more gradual increases the two years after. It's not a complicated solution to avoid a cap disaster.

[blacklabel]

I would hang onto him but probably reduce his snaps and maybe carve out some specific pass rush packages for him. He's a great veteran leader, obviously his teammates respond to him and respect him given he earned the C this year. He's a model McDermott player, selfless, wants to win, team player, exhibits top notch practice and preparation habits, all things you want your younger guys to see and emulate. 

[billsfan89]

56 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

That RDE position is so important now. He'll be too old to give us a competitive advantage when his contract runs out. He has made some plays this year, but we need to be very strong at DE and CB especially. We have a lot of so-so DE's on our roster and no really good ones.

 

I would restructure his deal. I think he can be a highly productive DE in a rotation esp in pass rushing situations but he just isn't likely to live up to his starter contract. If he takes a moderate pay cut his salary as a rotation player making 6.5ish million will be justified and give the Bills about 3 million in cap relief.

[John from Riverside]

Bean has been in the camp of cutting lose a player right before they hit their big slide right?

 

But....you know Murphy is gone...I dont know if they want to do this with TWO starting DE's in one year.