Jerry Hughes Do U Bring Him Back or Let Him Walk ?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I hear what you are saying, but that isnt a great selling point for why it was better to sign those 3 guys over our own guys who were producing.

 

The new guys are easily cuttable... I'd rather have guys I dont want to cut.

 

Yea, it's definitely an interesting debate because I can see both sides, but i'd rather have the flexibility to cut non-core guys on defense to keep guys like Williams and Feliciano on offense if it comes down to it.   We wouldn't have that option with a re-signed Shaq and/or Phillips.

 

We have a stud on every level of the defense (assuming they play to their ability):

 

S- Poyer

CB - White

LB - Edmunds

DL - Oliver

 

Spend, spend, spend on Offense and just fill in around those guys.  I'd rather not be locked into all kinds of deals on defense in this modern day NFL.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not sure I am following your reasons for cutting him. 

We need to add a dominating DE. Will Epenesa grow up to be one ? Not sure yet and before next season, we should add another draft/FA.

 

But, I want Hughes to retire a Bill. Fantastic trade that got him here. 

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

It really comes down to price/cap hit for Jerry Hughes length of contract

 

I'm all for resigning him or extending him. There is no reason not to. His play has come down but he isn't exorbitantly over paid.

 

Extend him and give him more money up front while lowering his cap is a win win in my opinion

 

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

So, you are saying that he wont be a dominant pass rusher. Which makes it imperative that we add one. Star coming back next season should help the interior of the line. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

So, you are saying that he wont be a dominant pass rusher. Which makes it imperative that we add one. Star coming back next season should help the interior of the line. 

 

Correct. It would be a nice surprise, but I dont think he'll ever be "dominant" at anything.

 

Shaq was a 1st rounder who started for powerhouse Clemson.

Epenesa is a late 2nd rounder from a smaller Big 10 program.

 

AJ is more akin to Chris Kelsay (2nd rounder, Nebraska) than anyone else we've had around.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Pressure is probably more important than sacks.  Sacks are great, but a fair amount of the time its from coverage, the QB holding the ball etc.  Hell, half of phillips sacks last year were a result of hughes and lawson more than anything phillips did.  

Yeah but do you want to lose Feliciano or Williams only to hang on to a dwindling veteran for one more year? I think you cut Morse, cut Hughes, cut Addison, Jefferson and Butler and you sign Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Isaiah McKenzie and Levi Wallace.. if at all possible you also cut Micah Hyde.. Milano goes too unless he’s on a cheap prove it deal.. trade down at least once, maybe twice.. Defense needs to be gutted like a fish.. Offense is good except for center or guard (depending on where we put Feliciano) and TE..

 

Time to unload cap and get ready for Josh’s extension..

35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

IMO, Epenesa's ceiling is what we saw from Shaq his last year here. If we are lucky, AJ grows into Shaq Lawson.

I feel really good about Epenesa.. I think he can be a 10 sack per year guy.. I like him a lot..

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Still the best end on the team and likely not breaking the bank. Keep. 

[Stank_Nasty]

first time clicking into this thread. i havnt read a single post, but i'm willing to bet the word "pressures" has come up 80-100 times already.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Hughes gets very good pressure and is solid vs the run. I think he has at least 2 good years left in him. With all these athletic QB and quick passing games sacks are hard to find. You want your DE’s to get pressure and contain/gap control and that’s what Hughes does best. Hughes will be a 7 to 10 sack DE into age 35 then he will start to fall off.

[ALLEN1QB]

Hit the road jack ......

[Kwai San]

By all means let one of the better D players walk and take the cap hit too!  Sheesh......

[mjt328]

1.  Brandon Beane has already pretty much spent us to the salary cap. 

2.  Thanks to the virus cutting back fan attendance, the cap is expected to drop over the next few years (it has historically risen each year).

3.  The Bills will likely be giving Josh Allen an extension, before 2021 is finished.

 

Not to mention, our list of free agents is pretty extensive.  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/  The list includes guys like Jon Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Andre Roberts, Isaiah McKenzie, Matt Milano, Josh Norman and Levi Wallace.  Not to mention depth pieces like Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, Ty Nsekhe, Brian Winters, Matt Barkley, Dean Marlow, Justin Zimmer and Ike Boettger.

 

Unfortunately, we are to the point where money is going to start dictating whether we can keep players or not.  This is where Beane's drafting skills will need to start showing, so that we don't see a drop-off when the veterans leave for more $$.  

 

Personally, I would love to keep Jerry Hughes in a Bills uniform until he retires or shows regression.  But one of the main reasons we drafted AJ Epenesa was to slide into that rotation to replace Hughes or Mario Addison.  He may need to be ready for significant snaps next season.  

 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Keep:

 

Hughes - Addison - Epenesa - Johnson 

 

Keep: 

 

Oliver - Star 

 

Move on from:

 

Murphy & Butler

 

Toss-up:

 

Jefferson & Harry (I would cut/trade one of them and draft a rotational DT in the middle rounds )

 

 

 

 

I think this is a very reasonable take.

 

As for Jerry Hughes, I see no reason why we should move on from him once his contract is up the following year.

 

Yes, he is 32, but I have not seen any real evidence that he is slowing down as a player. I dare say that he could still be a good DE for another 3-4 years for us.

 

That doesn't mean that we should not try to get better at the position. We still don't know what we quite have with Epenesa. Defensive End should be one of the top positions that we address during the offseason.

[thenorthremembers]

Id add another year to his contract but rework it to keep him for less.

[gordong]

What young guy takes his place??  We have no young guy to fill in and NOT be a HUGE drop off... so unless you are going out and getting someone better (and even then swap him to the other side) you keep him...   

[Victory Formation]

36 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Hughes gets very good pressure and is solid vs the run. I think he has at least 2 good years left in him. With all these athletic QB and quick passing games sacks are hard to find. You want your DE’s to get pressure and contain/gap control and that’s what Hughes does best. Hughes will be a 7 to 10 sack DE into age 35 then he will start to fall off.

He’s only gotten 7-10 sacks three times over his 11 year career.. Defense needs to be rebuilt now, we need that cap space for Allen.. and I assume that Diggs will eventually want more money.. Daryl Williams has been great, he needs to be re-signed as does Feliciano..

 

Defense needs a youth movement in the worst way.. Definitely think Levi Wallace should get signed to a cheap 2 year deal.. Him and Dane have shown promise at corner... young n cheap.. I would keep Poyer because in my mind he is the heart and soul of this defense but all the other expensive contracts need to be dumped or traded for draft picks..

 

Poyer, Epenesa, White, Edmunds, Oliver, Jackson, Wallace, Johnson and Zimmer should be the young nuclei we build around.. Start over.. Defense is getting paid too much and they suck.. Need to add a center in the draft and everything else should go towards defense.. trade down if you have to..

[GunnerBill]

In my ideal world I'd move on from Jerry and Addison but I don't think you can do both in one go (and Murphy is a gonner) because it leaves you with Epenesa and Johnson and nothing else. 

 

I'd rather keep Jerry of the two but he costs less to move on from. I can see him leaving. 

[Victory Formation]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

In my ideal world I'd move on from Jerry and Addison but I don't think you can do both in one go (and Murphy is a gonner) because it leaves you with Epenesa and Johnson and nothing else. 

 

I'd rather keep Jerry of the two but he costs less to move on from. I can see him leaving. 

Well, I think you gotta do a salary dump now.. By the time we do Josh’s contract we’ll have plenty of space.. And be honest, if we spent like 6 or 7 picks on defense, do you really think we’d be worst off? I mean, defense is McD’s forte, if you give him an entire draft to build our defense you’d think that we’d have a pretty solid unit.. And our cap situation would be phenomenal for the next 4-5 years..

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Exactly.

 

If the cap drops significantly, it will be a problem for EVERY team. And no way the NFL doesnt come up with some forgiveness program, or changes the rules for an off year.

 

What are they going to do? Force teams to cut all the high-priced guys and leave them out of work for a year? No.

 

Read awhile back they may go to a system where they take what would be the likely 2022 "normal cap" assuming full fans in attendance next season, etc and then take the average of the two so that could bump the cap up to around $190 M it stated.

 

If he's still under contract hard to bring him back a reasonable price as then you are only hurting yourself down the road. Can certainly see deals that can be broken with little cap hit happening, but not if the hit is $9 mil as someone stated.

 

Having said all that can see next year being the Bills best window to win as schedule should be easier as will play both NFC and AFC south.  Both those divisions have at most likely 2 strong teams and that's assuming Brady, Brees, and Rivers still are able to play at a high level.  Likely also need to face Pitt and KC which won't be easy, but even there Big Ben could also be ready to fall apart.

[Rc2catch]

I think I would let him walk. 
I don’t think he’s totally over the hill. 
But I don’t think he’ll be worth his next contract either. 
Ive liked Hughes during his time here, but he has to be the most hated player by almost all officials in the league. That man gets abused week in and week out and they almost never call anything. After what’s happened this season I’m all in for a youth movement on the line. Fresh blood that’s hungry. And cheaper.