buffalobillswin Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Mahomes is a generational talent along the lines of Rodgers, Brady and Manning. I love Tre but I'd do Tre, Josh Allen and two firsts for Mahomes pretty quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 It’s closer than it appeared upon first glance ... but if mahomes continues this level of play throughout his career, and Allen plateaues about where he is now, then it’s a win for kc, Tre notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, NewEra said: Emphasis on could be Yeah, and you can say that about any QB in the league with just as much chance as it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I never knew we traded with KC in 2017. Was this ever covered in the news or even on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No I don’t think we can. If Allen develops into a quality franchise QB, yes. But while he’s shown promise, he’s not there yet. No other position is worth passing up a shot at a true franchise QB, and Mahomes looks to be Truth in that regard. imo Josh Allen HAS developed into a franchise QB......he just is not on the level of Mohommes and may never be. Even if he does not reach that level I dont consider it a knock because you hae to compare Allen to the rest of the leagues quarterbacks and not just MP. Tre was always the player that put this over the top for me. Tre one of the very best corners in the league.....Allen is a young franchise quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 We will see, if Allen is a top 10 QB year in and year out the Bills will not be portrayed as historic losers. But even though White is a top flight All-Pro CB he still isn't worth missing out on a possibly generational QB. But if Allen develops into a top QB and Tre stays healthy no one is going to look at the Bills as having made the wrong move. Especially if Edumonds and Tre are foundational pieces for the defense the next 5 years and Allen is a quality QB. As the real pieces the Bills got for Mahomes was essentially Edumonds and White. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, MJS said: Yeah, and you can say that about any QB in the league with just as much chance as it happening. No, you can’t say that about just about any qb in the league. False Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 3 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: The Bills selected really good players. The Chiefs won the trade. Because you say? I say the Bills win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: They might be undefeated Mahomes nearly carried the 2nd worst defense to the SB. Allen has played with a top 3 defense both years. You don’t think Brown and Beasley would be monsters with Mahomes? Mahomes wouldn’t have survived Buffalo’s 2018 OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 When tre wins defensive player if the year people will comment less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: The Bills selected really good players. The Chiefs won the trade. After 2 and 3 seasons, can you honestly answer? Allen's numbers since Game 5 (17 td, 3 int, 6 rushing tds) and he's about to go to the playoffs. Pat Mahomes in last 11 games (18 td, 4 int, 2 rushing tds) and also about to go to the playoffs. I'm not saying they are equal yet, and Mahomes had perhaps the greatest second year ever, so hard for Allen to get close to that (but Allen's was not shabby), but the jury is still out on Allen and we don't seem to appreciate just how well he has been playing since he got a full's year worth of games under his belt. If they are both QBs in the top ten for the next decade, but if we also got one of the best players at STOPPING the opponent's QBs (right now, he's second in the league at opponent QBR and tops in allowing TDs at, um, zero -- and who got the only TD against the number one QBR -- Josh Allen), can you really truly say we lost the deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 4 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said: Although Josh is still developing, can we put to rest the 2017 trade down was not a disaster? KC netted Mahones while the Bills landed White and then Allen the following year with the draft capital. Seems like a win-win deal right now. It's not a total disaster but it's still a horrible trade for the Bills right now... And don't get me wrong, i love josh Allen and think he'll continue to grow, but he's no where near Mahomes level right now. If Allen continues to progress and gets int the conversation for being a Top 5 QB then we can reassess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: If the Bills had Mahomes they’d be Super Bowl favorites...let that sink in for a moment... That secondary would be just as dominant without Tre White it sounds like ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I think I'd take Allen running the Chiefs current offense over Mahomes running the current Bills offense and no contest on the 2018 versions You have to take into account what is around the qb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: If the Bills had Mahomes they’d be Super Bowl favorites...let that sink in for a moment... It is not NEARLY that simple Tre WHite is a major part of our defense....which would be backing Mahommes up. KC wins by outscoring its opponents they do NOT have a good defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I think it worked out for both teams Bears got the short end of the stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddicksTDLeap Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 No one can possibly believe that Patrick Mahomes would have been an MVP candidate in year 2, if he were on the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 6 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said: Although Josh is still developing, can we put to rest the 2017 trade down was not a disaster? KC netted Mahones while the Bills landed White and then Allen the following year with the draft capital. Seems like a win-win deal right now. False. Not sure why this continues to be perpetuated but Allen was not acquired with any capital from that trade. The Bills netted Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds from the trade that netted the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes. Allen was acquired with the pick netted after 2 trade ups from the Bills own 2018 first rounder. They used Cordy Glenn(to Cinci) in a pre-draft trade and then on draft day the pick acquired from the Rams for Sammy Watkins. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Mahomes has come down a bit this year, but is still a top 5 QB. Allen is looking over the edge of top 15. So now, no. Probably not a good trade. That being said, if Allen becomes a top 10-5 QB, which I expect, then yeah. Getting Tremaine Edmunds, Josh Allen, and Tre White for Pat Mahomes will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, billspro said: I would obviously take Mahommes over both of them. Saying that the trade still worked out well for us. I think Allen can be a Big Ben level QB and White could be the best DB in the league. There is also no way to know how Mahommes would have played in Buffalo. He probably would have been good but I don’t think he would be anywhere near the level he reached in KC. We don’t have the coaching or the talent KC has on offence. No one would look great with the oline and WRs we put together. This is a fair take. There are people who believe Mahomes would have been TRASH under the circumstances in Buffalo. I don't think they've watched him play. He wouldn't be AS good. No doubt about that. But he's an elite QB. Elite QB's find a way. Allen's progress will determine if this trade worked out OK. As far as "putting it to bed," I've done that. It happened. But in the context of whether the trade worked out, time will tell. Need Allen to take that next step and Beane to surround him with a "supporting cast" that's more of an asset than a liability. Edited December 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Utah John said: If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled. It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing. He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn. A perfect situation for him to blossom. He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo. I honestly believe that Mahomes went to the perfect situation. If you look at his draft reviews in 2017, many were saying that he was a raw prospect and were indifferent on whether KC overdrafted him. Considering the plan was to sit him behind Alex Smith, there was good reason that KC get he needed development as well. He had the advantage to sit behind a good QB mentor, play for a HC who always coaches up QB’s, and have a talented roster of skill players around him. Plus the luxury of being able to watch for an entire season - how often does that happen? In 2017, Rick Dennison would have been his OC, Tyrod Taylor would be his mentor QB, and his supporting WR cast would consist of Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews and Deonte Thompson. Oh and Charles Clay at TE. Plus he’d be playing for a defensive-minded coach, that didn’t have the type of experience or track record that Reid has. So I’ve always thought it’s very hard to evaluate when there are so many variables that come into play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: This is a fair take. There are people who believe Mahomes would have SUCKED under the circumstances in Buffalo. I don't think they've watched him play. He wouldn't be AS good. No doubt about that. But he's an elite QB. Elite QB's find a way. I like Allen. I hope Allen/Jackson/Mahomes turns into Elway/Kelly/Marino part 2. But Allen wasn't part of that trade...........so the take by the OP and @billspro and most others in this thread are just flat out wrong. They got White and Edmunds out of the Mahomes deal. Bills 2018 + Cordy Glenn + Sammy Watkins = Josh Allen. If people want to say "well they wouldn't have picked Josh if they had Mahomes"..........sure..........but it's still another season and totally separate first round pick and other capital. Edited December 28, 2019 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I like Allen. I hope Allen/Jackson/Mahomes turns into Elway/Kelly/Marino part 2. But Allen wasn't part of that trade...........so the take by @billspro and most others in this thread are just flat out wrong. They got White and Edmunds out of the Mahomes deal. Bills 2018 + Cordy Glenn + Sammy Watkins = Josh Allen. If people want to say "well they wouldn't have picked Josh if they had Mahomes"..........sure..........but it's still another season and totally separate first round pick and other capital. I understand the nuance and that the question is flawed. Just gotten so used to the detail deficient premise that I was responding as if it were truly a Mahomes vs White/Allen trade. The answer is obviously going to come down to what Allen's able to accomplish. If he becomes a top 10 QB, no issues. I would say it's pretty unlikely he'll ever be as good as Mahomes, but if he's legit, it's fine. Edited December 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Just now, K-9 said: He's just resting his eyes, K-9. (Get up Josh!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 hours ago, NewEra said: It’s not a disaster. There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back. There are many Bills fans that would. I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever. Emphasis on “may eventually be” Josh Allen may eventually be the best QB ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: False. Not sure why this continues to be perpetuated but Allen was not acquired with any capital from that trade. The Bills netted Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds from the trade that netted the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes. Allen was acquired with the pick netted after 2 trade ups from the Bills own 2018 first rounder. They used Cordy Glenn(to Cinci) in a pre-draft trade and then on draft day the pick acquired from the Rams for Sammy Watkins. You are right. It has been stated many times on this forum that trade got them Josh. I assumed it was correct. However, the trade did get them Dawkins which made Glenn expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Is Tre/Allen a computer game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said: If Bills would have drafted Mahomes he would have sucked. The curse wasn't broken yet. QB's tend to break so called "curses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: Josh Allen may eventually be the best QB ever... Perhaps. Most would say Pat Mahomes has a lot better chance of being that player, and I would agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Utah John said: If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled. It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing. He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn. A perfect situation for him to blossom. He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo. This narrative is kind of lazy. Mahomes played on a Texas Tech team with one WR who was drafted. (kiki Coutee) None of his horrible O line are even on an NFL practice squad, He produced at a very high level with very low level talent around him his whole career. Certainly KC has better players in place than what Buffalo had at the time, but to say Mahomes couldn't have operated at a high level in Buffalo isn't supported by Mahomes time in college 7 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said: Damn....I thought the Mahomes talk ended when Lamar Jackson started setting the world on fire. ....When trailing by 2 scores or more.....QB Rating: Mahomes 112 Lamar, 60 You get out to a two score lead and ONE of these guys suddenly becomes pretty ordinary. Trick is getting out to a lead. Mahomes is 2-0 VS Lamar. 6 hours ago, Foxx said: You may ask yourself What is that beautiful house? You may ask yourself Where does that highway go to? And you may ask yourself Am I right? Am I wrong? And you may say yourself "My God! What have I done?" Quoted this post just because I live that song. Same as it ever was! 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: False. Not sure why this continues to be perpetuated but Allen was not acquired with any capital from that trade. The Bills netted Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds from the trade that netted the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes. Allen was acquired with the pick netted after 2 trade ups from the Bills own 2018 first rounder. They used Cordy Glenn(to Cinci) in a pre-draft trade and then on draft day the pick acquired from the Rams for Sammy Watkins. THIS. Granted, the idea was that McDermott simply wasn't going to allow a lame duck GM to draft his QBOTF ...and McD had only been on the job a month...is a D sided coach and didn't have the time or the area of expertise to pick a QB in 2017....he wanted to wait until the crop of 18 AND have the new GM in place to work wiht on that very important pick. It's just the circumstances that existed at the time. You can not fault McD...and certainly not Beane. If anything, the cumbersome leadership changes at coach and GM the Pegulas undertook in 2017 set up circumstances that simply weren't conducive to drafting a QB in 2017. In that sense the trade was "good" because the Bills got capital and made productive use of it. They weren't taking a QB period in 2017. The TRADE isn't a bad trade.....it should be viewed entirely separately from the circumstances. so.... 1. The ownership created circumstances that set up the draft where there wasn't going to be a QB taken.....so GIVEN THAT YOU AREN'T going QB....then you are operating with the idea of what is the best thing you can do at 10....and that was to trade back for capital, and still get a good player. The trade is actually and A+ given the conditions it was made under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Outside of your season long predictions you have contributed some good thoughts around here. I agree with the circumstances and the A+ grade on the draft day trade. With that said, hopefully the Pegulas look at Mahomes and now understand that they can never allow a lame duck GM to linger around for a draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayray808 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) Tre and Tremaine for Mahommes = bad deal Tre and Tremaine for Mahomes and then use other assets to grab Josh Allen? YES NO CHANCE Mahomes has a MVP year with the historically bad offense we had last year. This year? Yes he would have scored more than 17 points but our defense wouldn’t be what it is today. Both teams won short term, and if Josh can make small improvements both teams will win long term Edited December 28, 2019 by rayray808 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 dead horses are such easy targets, dead horse's don't run away, dead horses don't even put up a fight. I'm thinking of getting a couple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Well compared to Cinci who picked John Ross before us instead of Mahomes, the fact that we at least got another 1st rounder is huge. Bengals took a bust WR and passed on a franchise changing MVP QB. And one has to assume KC offered the same deal to Cinci and they still said no. (If u are gonna offer a deal to a 10th spot you'd certainly offer at least the same deal it to anyone 9,8,7,6 etc) 10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Nice thread... We haven’t debated this enough.. And here we are, 78 replies and 2500 views in, proving you wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 White & Allen > Mahomes. Mahomes is not going to be around long & his knees & gait look like my grandma’s. No way that dude is around in 10 years. He’s injury prone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: And here we are, 78 replies and 2500 views in, proving you wrong.... Glad you are enjoying it ( again..) I prefer to focus on the games this time of the year.., particularly when my team is in the playoffs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: Because you say? I say the Bills win it. Mahomes will likely be in the hall of fame at the most important position in team sports. That trumps an All Pro CB and a solid QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said: White & Allen > Mahomes. Mahomes is not going to be around long & his knees & gait look like my grandma’s. No way that dude is around in 10 years. He’s injury prone. You aren’t serious with this comment are you? Never seen Mahomes play huh. That’s okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, without a drought said: dead horses are such easy targets, dead horse's don't run away, dead horses don't even put up a fight. I'm thinking of getting a couple. They start to smell after a while BTW I like the way things turned out for the Bills there is no guarantee that Mahomes turns out the way he did with Buffalos lack of talent on offence. We must remember all the weapons noodle arm Alex Smith had at his disposal and that PM walked into a stacked team ready to win. Edited December 28, 2019 by JMF2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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