BillsfaninSB Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Although Josh is still developing, can we put to rest the 2017 trade down was not a disaster? KC netted Mahones while the Bills landed White and then Allen the following year with the draft capital. Seems like a win-win deal right now. 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Both are winners, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 It’s not a disaster. There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back. There are many Bills fans that would. I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever. Emphasis on “may eventually be” 9 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Still too early in their careers to say. Tre is certainly a hit. Allen still needs to improve. If one of them reaches HOF status it was worthwhile.... I’ll get back to you in 15-20 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Nice thread... We haven’t debated this enough.. 1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said: Although Josh is still developing, can we put to rest the 2017 trade down was not a disaster? KC netted Mahones while the Bills landed White and then Allen the following year with the draft capital. Seems like a win-win deal right now. No I don’t think we can. If Allen develops into a quality franchise QB, yes. But while he’s shown promise, he’s not there yet. No other position is worth passing up a shot at a true franchise QB, and Mahomes looks to be Truth in that regard. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 If Bills would have drafted Mahomes he would have sucked. The curse wasn't broken yet. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Oh for *****'s sake... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No I don’t think we can. If Allen develops into a quality franchise QB, yes. But while he’s shown promise, he’s not there yet. No other position is worth passing up a shot at a true franchise QB, and Mahomes looks to be Truth in that regard. This is the correct answer. I got a Josh Allen jersey for Christmas, so I sure hope he is the Buffalo Truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 If we get farther in the playoffs then then we can have this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said: If Bills would have drafted Mahomes he would have sucked. The curse wasn't broken yet. If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled. It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing. He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn. A perfect situation for him to blossom. He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renobillsfan Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I would go a step further and declare that the Bills got a Top 1-2 QB in the 2018 draft. What else could we have asked for? Forget about purely statistics. JA may never be worthy of that high of a pick based on purely stats. All I would focus on is his TD- INT ratio, QB completion % and the most important (IMHO), Wins. The jury is still out on Darnold, Baker Mayfield may go down as a bust (or simply overrated), Rosen may be out of the league next year and that leaves only Lamar Jackson. I wouldn't so easily declare LJ as the best QB in the 2018 class, at this point. He has had an incredible year but so did another "transcendent" QB in RGIII. How did that work out for RG after defenses learned to gameplan his running tendencies? So, to get back to the topic on discussion, Bills got what I believe is a top flight cover CB in White and a QB that has led the team to its best season in 20 years. Not a bad haul, even by comparison of an All-Pro QB in Mahomes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Utah John said: If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled. It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing. He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn. A perfect situation for him to blossom. He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo. Impossible to prove a counterfactual, but this is likely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: If we get farther in the playoffs then then we can have this discussion. So you're saying just keep "hanging avround?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) The impacts are bigger than this though. Looking at the picks involved with Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes we ultimately Got: Josh Allen 2018-7 Tre White 2017-27 Zay Jones 2017-37 Dion Dawkins 2017-63 Ray Ray McCloud 2018-187 Austin Proehl 2018-255 EJ Gaines w/ 2018-56 used to acquire 2018-7 Missed: Pat Mahomes 2017-10 Vita Vea 2018-12 Billy Price 2018-21 Gerald Everett 2017-44 MJ Stewart 2018-53 Duke Dawson 2018-56 Duke Riley 2017-75 John Johnson 2017-91 Damontae Kazee 2017-149 Brian Hill 2017-156 Andrew Brown 2018-158 Sebastian Joseph-Day 2018-195 Sammy Watkins for 2018-56 and EJ Gaines Cordy Glenn for 2018-12 and 2018-187 Edited December 27, 2019 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Except that it's not a direct Mahomes for Allen and White swap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Toll Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 IMO Josh will be better off in the long haul for having fought to find success through the worst rookie QB scenario you could imagine. Mahomes may be on the Marino track where we’ve already seen his peak. He also had a very scary injury this year. Things should only get easier for Josh and harder for Mahomes from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, GG said: Except that it's not a direct Mahomes for Allen and White swap. No but without that trade we likely would have never been able to get Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAteam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 My question (which is heavily laced with hindsight vision) is if we took Mahomes at 10 might we have still been able to trade up for White? You'd lose out on Zay Jones and/or Dion Dawkins who I think you could do without in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, NewEra said: It’s not a disaster. There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back. There are many Bills fans that would. I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever. Emphasis on “may eventually be” I would obviously take Mahommes over both of them. Saying that the trade still worked out well for us. I think Allen can be a Big Ben level QB and White could be the best DB in the league. There is also no way to know how Mahommes would have played in Buffalo. He probably would have been good but I don’t think he would be anywhere near the level he reached in KC. We don’t have the coaching or the talent KC has on offence. No one would look great with the oline and WRs we put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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