Where are you on the spectrum??

[TigerJ]

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Chicken Little ("The sky is falling!" ) and 10 being ready to reserve my Hall of Fame induction ceremony tickets, I'm probably a 7.  I think Josh Allen is going to be at least a solid starter who gives Buffalo a shot at the playoffs most years, and has at least a chance to bring home a Super Bowl at some point

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

His astonishing combination of size, arm strength and running ability give him a significant margin of error 

 

Agreed. 

 

Though our franchises predisposition to err in new and spectacular ways worries me quite a bit still.

Edited December 6, 2018 by NoSaint

[Dadonkadonk]

20 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

In the pre-season I compared Allen's college stats, physical ability and IQ to Brett Favre and got destroyed for it.

 

I tried to explain that every 20-25 yrs a guy comes along that breaks standard stats. I showed that Brett Favre was the last guy to do it, and also argued Josh Allen has all the traits to do it again.

 

After Minnesota, Jacksonville and Miami I stand by it.

 

Josh Allen is in many ways Brett Favre.

 

He will escape pressure that amazes you, he will have the arm to score anywhere on the field, he will make bone headed throws that will boggle the mind.

 

They are both competitors and will never feel out of a game.

 

Brett Favre was a great QB at times and a total mess at others. He was imperfect, but could win a Super Bowl.

He was able to elevate his teams at times, was always positive and had an 'Awe shucks' personality that his team loved.

Brett Favre was never considered a running threat, but could evade pressure like a slick cat covered in motor oil, and had an arm that could make you pay anywhere on the field.

 

This is Josh Allen. And I stand by my original prognosis.

 

But I would like to add

Josh Allen is a better scrambler than Brett Favre

Josh Allen is a better athlete than Brett Favre

Josh Allen has a bigger arm than Brett Favre

 

We have a baby Favre.

 

Develop him. Give him weapons to maximize his strengths, and enjoy the roller coaster ride.

Favre had Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, and Mariucci.  So far, I don't see Daboll as good as any of those guys.

[BisonMan]

The more pre-draft coverage I read, the more I liked Allen. I was both happy and concerned when the Bills picked him. He had high bust potential based on what I knew but, now that I’ve seen him play at the NFL level, I no longer worry about him being a bust.

 

His size, smarts, mobility, intelligence, work ethic and competitiveness remind me more of John Elway than any other superstar QB. He is a lot smarter than Brett Favre. I don’t think Allen makes bonehead plays like Favre. He is inaccurate at times but isn’t throwing into triple coverage.

 

The Bills have the potential to ruin any QB with the talent they currently have. The recent Beane interview tells me they probably won’t.

 

On a scale from 1 to 10, I’m probably at an 8 right now.

 

EdW

[Domdab99]

My doctor said I'm definitely on the spectrum. 

 

Not sure what he meant. 

[BubbaT]

Absolutely loved some of the throws he made last week! Both TDs to Jones were fantastic. I love the athleticism (surprising me weekly) and the compete levels. I just want to see if the missed open receiver  throws are repeated or if there are less of them. I want to see what happens when D coordinators start game planning for HIM to take away his strengths (and not because he's a rookie with weaknesses). That by itself is a good sign. I'm beyond cautiously optimistic. How high is the ceiling is my question. What's he like with improved O Line and receivers? 

[RocCityRoller]

3 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Favre had Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, and Mariucci.  So far, I don't see Daboll as good as any of those guys.

 

I'm talking about the QB as a prospect and potential.

 

I think Dabs has some chops, but what did he have to work with?

 

The team needs to invest in OL, WR at the least.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

Back in the day the Bills had Kelly, Reed, Thomas, Wolford, Hull etc in 1985-1986 and it took a season or two for the Bills to put it together.

In 1987-1988 despite the talent on the offense, the Bills were a defense first team.

 

I remember clearly a pre-season article from Rochester's D+C writer Bob Matthews in 1988 into 1989 mentioning that the Bills would not be an offensive power for years to come.

That was the year that laid the foundations for the no huddle.

 

This is a proper rebuild. Drafting a WR in rund 1 or 2 makes sense, since most WR take a year or two to develop. Same with OL.

Any RB can come into a decent passing attack and do well.

 

The point was that Josh Allen is a curve pusher. He breaks statistical molds. Build around him and grow.

 

Try to make him what he is not, and fail. He needs help, and if that is done, he could be a great QB.

 

 

[buffalo2218]

I fall under realist. Passing judgement on either good or bad games he’s had is premature. Like everyone else, I praise the good and hope he can learn and adapt with the bad. Really wished he beat the Dolphins tho.

 

Even tho he didn’t, I saw enough to know the phish are gonna be cellar dwellers for quite a long time. Right there with the Pats when they finally do their rebuild 

Edited December 6, 2018 by buffalo2218

[Aussie Joe]

34 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Chicken Little ("The sky is falling!" ) and 10 being ready to reserve my Hall of Fame induction ceremony tickets, I'm probably a 7.  I think Josh Allen is going to be at least a solid starter who gives Buffalo a shot at the playoffs most years, and has at least a chance to bring home a Super Bowl at some point

 

If he did develop into a solid starter I would be satisfied...

 

But I think he is your boom or bust with not much scope in between..

 

Sign me up for boom... may as well be optimistic until proven otherwise::

[row_33]

I feel a lot better than I should be with a 4-8 team

 

there is hope for the future so this is one of the best 4-8 teams I’ve cheered for

 

i will watch the last four games with interest

 

[BullBuchanan]

I see the scale as a JaMarcus Russel -> Jay Cutler -> Brett Favre -> John Elway progression, even though a lot of people might say Favre was the better passer, i think Elway was the better "quarterback". I think comparisons to these guys are all reasonable based on being big cannon armed throwers with mobility ( besides Russell, but he sucks, so it doesn't matter).

He's already better than Russel ever was, but isn't yet in Cutler territory, though his trajectory seems like it could be at least that good, if he can fix some things. In my eyes anything above that is extremely premature. When Allen makes a great play it looks like it came from one of the greats, but when he misses a 5 yard pass in the flats, overthrows deep balls, or loses pocket awareness it gives me a lot of pause. This is a kid that has a lot of things to work on to get to be in that coveted "top 10" QB spot.

My biggest fear with him is that he's able to become good enough to be a Jay Cutler level QB that isn't good enough to win games in January and beyond, but is too good to get rid of, so we're all sitting here for the next 10 years praying it's the year he finally gets it together. For that reason, I'm pessimistic long term. On the short term side, I'm really hoping he makes massive strides over the rest of the year and the offseason and comes back next year looking like a vet. I don't expect Mahomes, because that just doesn't happen. If he can be young Big Ben, that would be more than I could realistically hope for at this point.

Let's call it a 6 for now.

[folz]

Well, considering that his floor seems to be the best QB we have had since at least Bledsoe's first year with us (2002) and his ceiling could be quite high with the right circumstances, I'm pretty optimistic.

 

One thing I can definitely say (regardless of whether he becomes an elite QB or not) is that the Bills will be a hell of a lot more fun to watch with Josh at the helm than they have been in a long, long time. So, I'm good with that for now and hoping for the best. But the arrow definitely seems to be pointing up after those last two games.

[Success]

I’m just not someone who errs on the side of caution because I’m afraid of disappointment.  If I get my hopes up and they’re dashed, the sun still rises.  It’s fine.

 

Ergo, my hopes are up.  Way up.  I love what I’ve seen from Allen.  With no line, no running game and few weapons, he was about a foot away from a comeback victory on the road against Miami.  His arm is a lightning bolt.  He’s a pure competitor and has a ton of grit and determination.  Seems like a natural leader.

 

Haven’t been this excited since Kelly came back from the USFL and was introduced against the Jets in the season opener.

 

So, there you go.  That’s where I am.

[Stanley Lombardi]

From the left or the right, WOW is WOW.

[metzelaars_lives]

Anyone who isn't at least as optimistic- and really, more optimistic- than they were about Allen now vs. draft day, is just an idiot.  Plain and simple.  If you are just an Allen skeptic because you looked at his numbers at Wyoming last year (and ignored his numbers the year before- his first year as a college QB, when he had actual weapons, put up good numbers and was named the second team all-MWC QB) and decided there's no way he can be good because some geek said so, like a Mike Schopp, and remain a skeptic, then sure, whatever.  But anyone who thinks his stock has DECLINED since draft day is an absolute moron.  A moron.  Again, he is a) a raw prospect- REMEMBER?, b) has been thrown into action way ahead of everyone's ideal schedule because McDermott/Peterman (another thread), c) has as bad an offensive line as any team in the league and d) has as bad a cast of weapons to work with as any QB in the league.  So if you are reading this and you watched each of the last two games and you are LESS optimistic about Allen than you were in April, YOU ARE A MORON.  That's it.  Period. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[NoHuddleKelly12]

There was a stretch this year where I basically dreaded game day rolling around (rhymes with “elbow injury”) and lest we forget, were on pace to put up historically bad O numbers, with hand wringing on this site reaching a fever pitch. The layoff did him good though, and I couldn’t be happier we have him over the other Josh right now. (I know, still early, but this guy can ball, that’s getting more obvious by the week)

[Mickey]

Offensively, this is a very bad football team. Allen is carrying them. We may have a franchise QB but we definitely do not have a franchise LT, RT, LG, RG, C, TE or WR. We have a franchise RB that is looking more and more like his talent has reached its expiration date. The fact that he can scratch, crawl, heave and squeeze enough points out of this team to at least be competitive is nothing short of miraculous. 

 

We need to worry much less about whether or not Josh is "the guy" and much more about the rest of the roster. Offensively, Josh isn't the final cog needed to fire up a juggernaut, he is the first piece in place on the way to building a real offense. We are on Mediterranean Avenue not Boardwalk.

[TC in St. Louis]

I think he's awesome.  He's got a great arm, and when he gets his footwork figured out, they won't be able to stop him.  Get some receivers.  He'll find them.  And as a runner he is phenomenal.  We have our guy.

[Albany,n.y.]

47 minutes ago, Success said:

I’m just not someone who errs on the side of caution because I’m afraid of disappointment.  If I get my hopes up and they’re dashed, the sun still rises.  It’s fine.

 

Ergo, my hopes are up.  Way up.  I love what I’ve seen from Allen.  With no line, no running game and few weapons, he was about a foot away from a comeback victory on the road against Miami.  His arm is a lightning bolt.  He’s a pure competitor and has a ton of grit and determination.  Seems like a natural leader.

 

Haven’t been this excited since Kelly came back from the USFL and was introduced against the Jets in the season opener.

 

So, there you go.  That’s where I am.

I'm in the same boat. 

 

I've been that way with most of the QBs the Bills drafted over the years since the Kelly era.  I ended up dumping my hopes quickly on most of them, the quickest being JP followed by EJ.  JP was my quickest because I thought Trent Edwards was going to be great.  I was at the NE game when Wolfork took out JP and I stood up & said "Don't get up".  I cheered Edwards entrance and went so far as telling the NE fans I had talked with earlier that Trent in for JP was the Bills equivalent of Brady in for Bledsoe.   It took another 2 years for me to give up on Trent.  In the end he entered a game & I said that it would end with a quick injury exit and I invoked the name of Rob Johnson.  Shortly after Edwards left the game injured.  When Tyrod signed as a free agent I figured he was an adequate place holder who would be better than EJ & Cassell,  and would beat them out in their 1st camp together, but I always felt he was just a guy who you're always trying to replace with a real franchise QB.  I never saw anything to get excited about with Peterman & when he got overhyped before the LA start (which I had the misfortune of attending) I started referring to him as Nathan Marangi because there were people who said he had to be an improvement over Tyrod and it brought me back to the 1970s when fans wanted Marangi to replace Ferguson and finally got their wish when Fergy got hurt and Marangi set records of futility that still stand today, even though Peterman did worse in some categories before his release. 

 

What I want to see from a rookie QB are flashes of brilliance.  Allen is already providing that & I'm super optimistic.  I'm so optimistic I bought his jersey after the Vikings game.  Right now I feel like it's 1986 all over again, that we've found our QB for the next decade or more.  I hope he's a lot more Kelly than Todd, Rob, JP, Trent and EJ.  If he doesn't work out there's always another QB to draft down the road but the rest of the season & going into next year, I'll be pretty psyched up every time I see 17 out there.  

[Chandler#81]

I’m buying in on Allen. 3rd & 7 to 3rd & a Mile would virtually never be converted post Kelly. Allen gives us great opportunity to convert any distance, be it his legs or fantastic arm. Reminds me of Marino od Rogers. No situation can’t be overcome.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Didn’t like the pick, now I can’t wait to see the ball in his hands. 

 

No one knows how this turns out, but on the move he is a man among boys, and when he has a little time and mechanically sets up correctly, he makes 30 yard ropes on the mark look routine. 

 

That 3rd and forever conversion from his own end zone to Zay on the left sideline was ridiculous 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Cautiously optimistic. Allen's shown more promise than any QB we've had since Kelly (which isn't saying much) but I also think he's one of those guys that can be ruined if he doesn't get the help he needs early in his development. This offseason will make or break Allen and this team IMO. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by QuoteTheRaven83

[transient]

He’s definitely fun to watch, and has all the potential in the world, but I’m in the “too soon to tell” crowd. While I’m optimistic, I’ll reserve judgment until he finally announces who will present him for his HOF induction. 

[Bill51390]

Allen reminds me a lot of Favre. I'm actually shocked to not see more comparison to him. Still way to early to say how good Allen will be, but it will be absolutely critical for the Bills to get upgrade the offense next season. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bill51390

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Super Bowls !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Bad Things]

It's always a crap shot, but Josh really has the potential to be a superstar. (I don't think I've EVER seen an arm like his.)

He raises the game of the entire team and has a personality and demeanor that's a pleasure to root for.

 

It's just too bad that he went to friggin' Wyoming.

(I went to Colorado  State.)

 

Let's go Buffalo!

[Victory Formation]

He was the 3rd QB taken, but I'd rather have him over Mayfield and Darnold. Allen can make special plays with his arm or his legs. Every throw no matter how difficult is on the table. 

[bmur66]

O ye of little faith

[row_33]

First time in many years I will watch the last four games with interest

 

this is better than last year

 

[ProcessTruster]

He looks really good for a guy who has played what, 6 or 7 games as a pro  coming out of where?, Wyoming?    He could be great.     some of those sideline throws plus the touch pass to iron hands DiMarco were pro bowl stuff

Edited December 6, 2018 by ProcessTruster

[GunnerBill]

On McDermott - he was my choice during that hiring process he was the guy I'd have hired. I think he has proved here he is a coach who gets the most out of limited talent in what he did last year and can create a team ethos and accountability. His Peterman infatuation (and that is what it was) is the biggest false step so far. He is still the man in my view and I look forward to seeing how he coaches with a talented roster. Hopefully the next couple of years we will get to see that. Optimism score: 85%

 

On Beane - methodical and not a guy who gets blown off course by events (save for the trade for Benjamin which was made because they saw a playoff opportunity. We made the playoffs but Benjamin had little to do with it. Goes down as a mistake but when you look at the calculation he made at the time - a 3rd and a 7th to break the drought...... it was understandable). I don't love his FA pick ups but his first draft looks pretty good at this point. His future ultimately is tied to Josh Allen and how he works this offeseason to build around him. Optimism score: 55%

 

On Allen - wasn't a big fan of the pick. He was, and in fact still is, a little boom or bust for my tastes. He has had a decent rookie year, he is coming along nicely is a little ahead of schedule and gets something of a pass in certain elements given the paucity of the talent around him. Hopefully he is playing in a more talented offense next year and we will learn a little more about his long term prospects. Optimism score: 65%

 

On Daboll - it is a constant refrain of mine on this board.... fans blame offensive coordinators for bad players. It happened to Dennison, it has happened to Daboll.... it even happened to Greg Roman (though many of the usual suspects now retrospectively claim they were fine with Roman). Daboll's track record isn't great, but the job here this year was to turn water into wine. He is walking a tight rope because the way you hide inferior talent is with superior scheming.... the problem is when the talent can't pick that complex scheming up it looks a mess. He then simplified somewhat but simplification makes it talent v talent and ours normally comes off 2nd best. He has done a good job these last couple of weeks and there are some concepts in his offense that some of the more high scoring teams are using to. I'm not willing to take a final view on him until he has some better pieces to work with. Optimism score: 51%

 

 

 

[longtimebillsfan]

With Josh, I have taken the opinion of just enjoying watching him play and develop.  He is showing why Beane was so high on him.  Many national and local sports journalists are now believing that he has the highest growth potential of any qb in this year's draft.  I was upset on draft day when they picked the "wrong" Josh.  I now could not be happier.   I was wrong.

 

As for Beane,  some of his moves were difficult to understand at the time they were made.  But Beane is looking at the big picture and a three to four year development plan.  Most of his moves have worked out, but not all of them.  He is not perfect. 

 

Likewise for McDermott.   He is still learning on the job to be a head coach.  He has had his struggles, but he has shown me he can coach.  

 

I am the most optimistic that I have been in regard to the Bills future since 1999.

 

 I believe we have a bright future and new glory days are just around the corner. 

[eball]

Allen -- I'm all in, baby.  I can't believe the difference in his play from Weeks 2-4 to now.  The kid has played in seven NFL football games and was called the best player on the field last Sunday.  He's smart, humble, plays with tremendous fire, and appears to have a great capacity for learning.  We all know the development needs to continue, but he's elevating the play of those around him and that's the sign of a superstar.

 

I'm actually more lukewarm about McD -- not with respect to his leadership and ability to coach/motivate, but regarding game day decisions.  I still don't understand why in-game decisions like challenges and clock management are so damned difficult and he really needs to improve in these areas.

[mead107]

9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

I’m way right on the spectrum...bordering on just giving him a gold jacket and calling it a career. 

 

I am making a list and checking it twice to see where everyone stands.  

 

Someone should start a thread on Allen

will he be better than Kelly 

will he be 4-5 year guy

total bust. 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Optimistic. 

[RaoulDuke79]

Cautiously optimistic & deliriously hopeful. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, mead107 said:

 

I am making a list and checking it twice to see where everyone stands.  

 

Someone should start a thread on Allen

will he be better than Kelly 

will he be 4-5 year guy

total bust. 

 

 

No, someone WILL start threads on Allen prognosticating each of those three outcomes.

 

When you've been sent back from the future for historical research, this is easier to see.

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

...but now I'm Hapless

What did you do with Hap?

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If this is true than he will be more than enough to win a super bowl with the right weapons around him.

 

Oh, yes, because Cam Newton has taken his team to so many Super Bowls -- and Super Bowl wins.

 

10 hours ago, Steptide said:

I keep hearing about this "Allen is a bust" crowd, but I have no idea wh o/where they are. I'd say 75% of fans are cautiously optimistic, while 25% are certain he's the next Kelly. I read almost nothing on here, or hear nothing from local radio about Allen being a bust or the wrong pick

 

Exactly this.  I think I read exactly 1 "negative" post in this thread ... and that poster counted himself "mildly pessimistic".  The idea of a "Allen is a bust CROWD" is a figment of Allen fans' imaginations.

 

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I put him above Brady and Rodgers but slightly below Marino and Elway at this stage...

 

Since both Brady and Rodgers rode the pine and didn't even get into games when it counted as rookies, that's not saying much.  He's also looked better so far than Patrick Mahomes did last season, too.

 

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I see the scale as a JaMarcus Russel -> Jay Cutler -> Brett Favre -> John Elway progression, even though a lot of people might say Favre was the better passer, i think Elway was the better "quarterback". I think comparisons to these guys are all reasonable based on being big cannon armed throwers with mobility ( besides Russell, but he sucks, so it doesn't matter).

He's already better than Russel ever was, but isn't yet in Cutler territory, though his trajectory seems like it could be at least that good, if he can fix some things. In my eyes anything above that is extremely premature. When Allen makes a great play it looks like it came from one of the greats, but when he misses a 5 yard pass in the flats, overthrows deep balls, or loses pocket awareness it gives me a lot of pause. This is a kid that has a lot of things to work on to get to be in that coveted "top 10" QB spot.

My biggest fear with him is that he's able to become good enough to be a Jay Cutler level QB that isn't good enough to win games in January and beyond, but is too good to get rid of, so we're all sitting here for the next 10 years praying it's the year he finally gets it together. For that reason, I'm pessimistic long term. On the short term side, I'm really hoping he makes massive strides over the rest of the year and the offseason and comes back next year looking like a vet. I don't expect Mahomes, because that just doesn't happen. If he can be young Big Ben, that would be more than I could realistically hope for at this point.

Let's call it a 6 for now.

 

I think this is the most realistic post in this thread.  It's way to early to have a real clue in how he'll turn out long term.  Lots of good looking rookies/first year starting QBs have come out and done much more than Allen has done ... and crashed and burned.  Others have done less and blossomed into good/great QBs.  The reverse is also true.  Rookie seasons/first year starting seasons aren't good indicators. 

 

I think that next season will be much more telling for Allen's future.  If he comes out and demonstrates that he's significantly better as a sophomore than he was this year, then fans and skeptics alike can realistically be optimistic that he can become a good NFL starter.  If he doesn't make those improvements, he's probably going to be another Losman or Manuel.

 

My concern about Allen is two fold.  The first is that I continue to be concerned that the Bills will put the pieces around Allen to enable him to have success, starting with a real QB coach rather than a former WR coach,  but including adding OL, receivers, and RBs.  If the Bills don't put better coaching and on-field talent around Allen, nobody is going to be able to evaluate him correctly.  

 

Secondly, I'm concerned that Allen's just good enough with a poor supporting cast that the Bills keep him when maybe they would be better off moving on.  I'm thinking of QBs like Tannehill, Bortles, Winston, and Mariota, all of whom remain questionable in discussions of good starting NFL QBs.  Bortles appeared to have settled his fate, but Winston came back from also being benched.  I think Mariota seems most similar to Allen at least situation wise.

 

3 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He was the 3rd QB taken, but I'd rather have him over Mayfield and Darnold. Allen can make special plays with his arm or his legs. Every throw no matter how difficult is on the table. 

 

LOL.  If Mayfield or Darnold was the Bills QB, you'd be saying the same thing about rather having him over Allen.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by SoTier

[Steptide]

10 hours ago, Steptide said:

I keep hearing about this "Allen is a bust" crowd, but I have no idea who/where they are. I'd say 75% of fans are cautiously optimistic, while 25% are certain he's the next Kelly. I read almost nothing on here, or hear nothing from local radio about Allen being a bust or the wrong pick

To answer the original question, I'm in the cautiously optimistic crowd. I love Allen's fire. I can't remember the last qb we had who lost a game (on a 4-7 team) that looked like he had just lost the national championship game in college in his post game presser (speaking of Allen after the Miami loss this last Sunday). So yes I think there is something special there, but I'll contain my excitement for now. 

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

I said it once, I'll say it again, Josh will be good enough that we will be in the playoffs more than we are not and if he gets hot during the playoffs... Well,  I think we could finally win ourselves a Superbowl.