To Run or Not To Run

[Wizard]

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Wizard

[scuba guy]

Well this has been mentioned before but I believe in the not to distant future we will see a game that the bills just run the ball and sit on the clock. Maybe week 6 but who knows and you are going to see gill as fb and extra ol and tes in the game with delayed handoffs. And dorsey will say to the nfl see if you can stop a 2 headed beast. 🙄 

Than you put our defense out there and get 1 or 2 turnovers the opponent's offense has maybe 4 drives. If we use up 8 plus minutes per drive running the ball.  

[Don Otreply]

We only have to run effectively, when we choose to run, with a good helping of showing we can run when we want to…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[JoPoy88]

14 minutes ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

passing is more efficient and effective. With the QB the Bills have the running game should be a compliment to the passing game, nothing more.

[Greg S]

I would like to see Allen do less running and put more of it on Singletary, but the offense revolves around Josh throwing it all over the place anyway. So as long as we win that is all that matters. I do think Beane will address the OL in the upcoming draft. If there was one area where I think the offense could be improved its the OL. We are pretty much set at the skill positions.

[uninja]

I like that we run just enough when its effective to force teams to respect it. It's not a focal point of our offense or the most explosive part of it but its there when we need it.

 

 

 

 

[mjt328]

The Bills just want a running game that can keep defenses honest.

 

Where we ran into trouble last season, was when teams dropped 7-8 defenders... but we still couldn't generate more than 2-3 yards per carry.

[H2o]

Sling the rock. Put up 50 if you can. In all seriousness, hopefully it mirrors the Tennessee game. We pull our starters then run the ball the last quarter and a half to burn the clock.

[colin]

it would be nice if we could run effectively when we wanted to, but we really aren't a good running team.  if cook can come along and be what i was thinking he was going to be, then he and motor are a sick 1 2 punch and we have a FB and TE who can both block and be passing threats, so that on paper should make us a good running team.

 

i'll believe it when i see it tho.

[HOUSE]

Moss gets alot of disrespect around here, you will be sorry later. 

I like him

[Lost]

Bills should only run on 1st and 2nd down because aside from the Allen RPO they are hot garbage when running on 3rd and short.  

[Marvin]

IMHO, power football is the best way to clinch a game as a gift to your defence for a job well done so that they take a bit less punishment before the next game.

 

I remember how much fun it was en route to the 4 Super Bowls that the Bills could get the ball with several minutes left, huddle, line up, announce to the universe the play was counter-trey right, let the play clock run down to 1, snap the ball, run the counter, and just demoralise the opposition with an inexorable drive to clinch the game.

 

I want to see this team do THAT before I can really believe in a chance to win a Super Bowl.  I need them to close out tough wins with authority.

[John from Riverside]

There is going to come a time in this season where we’re going to have to run the ball I don’t know when it’s coming but it is

[Rc2catch]

 Buffalo seems to struggle to run effectively, however they rarely have enough real attempts to gauge if it’s effective. 
Moss gets all this hate but it’s not like he’s getting a ton of touches. He’s the perfect kinda back to soften a defense up. We will probably never find out what he’s fully capable of because he’ll probably never see 20 real carries in a game. 
Motor, dude makes the first person miss like 95% of the time. He runs hard, I don’t know how they keep taking him off the field. He’s effective everytime he touches the ball. Once again though he rarely has enough attempts to make any impact. 
Allen is clearly playing at an MVP level, they look unstoppable. I fully understand slinging the ball all over the place and keeping the ball in your best players hand,  but it also doesn’t use much clock. As the season goes on and weather begins to turn, there’s going to need to be some balance. They will need a run game to milk a little clock against top tiered teams or the defense will be gassed out by the 3rd quarter even with the rotations. With the way the NFL is played, it’s not a terrible thing to milk a final drive 5-6 minutes to put a game away instead of all this last minute back and forth where defenses can’t stop anything. 

[mushypeaches]

I am pretty much satisfied with the amount of running that the Bills have done the past 2+ seasons. 

Could we perform better on the runs that we call?  Yes

Do we need to call more RB carries?  No

 

They're consistently winning with the current approach, and with Josh effectively utilizing check downs and RPO's as needed, many times that replaces the traditional running game, especially in the 1st half when the game is still being decided.

 

Additionally, by having 2-3 quality RB's on the team that all bring different skill sets, we can customize our approach to game situations and our opponents.  This makes our offense that more effective rather than the old days of thinking you have to win with a one-size-fits-all bell cow RB like Lesean McCoy

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There is going to come a time in this season where we’re going to have to run the ball I don’t know when it’s coming but it is

 

Yup. Its nice to blow teams out the same way Alabama does against an unranked opponent but the Bills will find themselves in close games from time to time. If we are leading in a one score game and have the ball with 5-6 minutes left in the 4th quarter will we run it? As much as I like watching Josh throw you also want to be able to run the clock down at some point and that involves running. Don't want to risk stopping the clock with an incomplete pass.

[SoCal Deek]

Or…we could just sit Moss down! He brings nothing to this offense and the opposing teams clearly don’t fear him. I loved what they were doing with Singletary during the playoffs, using him a check down safety valve for Josh late over the short middle. He was wide open play after play after play…and reminded me of how Kelly used Thurman. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Never should have let Christian Wade get away...😇

[Freddie's Dead]

If the Bills ran Motor 80-90% of the time, instead of Moss getting the majority of the carries, that would solve their issues in the run game.

[KDIGGZ]

Watch the 90's Bills games. They set up in shotgun (k-gun) every play so it looked like every play was a pass. The only running play they had was run left or run right and they were very effective running the ball of course as Thurman was league MVP. I think they are trying to do too much in our current offense. If you are a great passing team then why even line up in certain "strong" running sets/personnel? You are announcing to everyone that you are running. I think more zone runs is the answer. If they think you are passing then that should be a free 5 yards every time you run

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

We only have to run effectively, when we choose to run, with a good helping of showing we can run when we want to…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

Perfectly stated! 

Bills currently at 60-40 pass-run ratio.

[Bob in STL]

 

We are a pass first team and that is in alignment with what works in modern football. 

 

We have to run enough to keep the defense from focusing on the pass, because defenses will do that every time.  We cannot expect Allen to make every play.  

 

We also need to run better on short yardage and when we need to chew up some clock.  

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

They say “styles makes fights.” I say depending on the opponent 

[LabattBlue]

IMO the most important phase of the running game is short yardage.  Whether it is Allen or one of the RB's, they have to be able to gain 2 yards or less when needed for a 1st down or TD.  It seems to be a struggle year after year.

[Royale with Cheese]

When we run, it needs to be Singletary.  

[T master]

I wish they would give Motor some ore carries per game I think that with Josh hitting so much down the field that would soften the line play & open some holes for the run game if for nothing else to keep the other team on notice that hey we can run it too .

 

The passing game was on point last game and they were attacking them in that way but i love to see Motor get his game on too but it seems they shut that part of the game down pretty quickly but it will be one piece that they will for sure need at some point this season .

 

And most teams that go deep into the play offs always have a running game they can depend on to move the ball if the other avenues seem to not be working quite as well so i hope they get some actual on field experiences with it to show they can when it's needed .

[Inigo Montoya]

My take is that to win a football game you need to score more points than the other team does in 60 minutes.  (revolutionary, I know...)  It doesn't matter how you score those points, running, passing, special teams, defense, kicking, they all count the same.

 

With our offense we score points easiest when passing the ball.  We're not as good at running the ball.  As long as our passing game can product 35-40+ points a game passing, I don't care if they run at all.  If at some point the lack of a running game begins to lessen the effectiveness of the passing game, then that needs to be addressed.  So far it doesn't look like our anemic running game is affecting our passing game.  At one point against the Titans the Bills called 20+ pass plays in a row.  It was in the 3rd quarter when the offense scored the most points.

 

There are no bonus points awarded by the football gods at the end of the game for having a "balanced attack".   Would it be great to have both a fantastic passing and running game?  Of course it would, but right now no one can stop our passing game even when they know we're going to pass it.  I'm not for taking the ball out of Josh Allen's hands and putting it in Moss or Singletary's for the sake of "balance" if Moss and Singletary are not as effective running the ball as Josh Allen is throwing it.

 

Until someone figures out how to stop Josh Allen and our passing game, why would you want to run it more?  The only time we run should be to set up the pass, to slow down the pass rush on occasion to keep the defense honest,  and to salt away the clock in the 4th quarter when we have a big lead.

 

An offense that goes away from what it does best to satisfy this theoretical notion of "balance" is going to score less points and lose more games.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Inigo Montoya

[first_and_ten]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would be a good time to get the running game going. That team is fast. Josh is at a point where he can change plays when he assesses the defense. I didn't like Ken Dorsey having Allen in the shotgun on those 3rd and 4th and ones. Why didn't he call a quarterback sneak? I don't like nitpicking Dorsey, but I hated those calls. Hopefully he learns from that.

[HoofHearted]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The days of the bell cow back are over. You just have to run enough to keep the defense honest. Allen’s threat as a runner also lends a huge hand in our success in the pass game as well so you can’t abandon that either.

[GoBills808]

They need to run little as possible

 

Only enough to set up the passing game and no more

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Watch the 90's Bills games. They set up in shotgun (k-gun) every play so it looked like every play was a pass. The only running play they had was run left or run right and they were very effective running the ball of course as Thurman was league MVP. I think they are trying to do too much in our current offense. If you are a great passing team then why even line up in certain "strong" running sets/personnel? You are announcing to everyone that you are running. I think more zone runs is the answer. If they think you are passing then that should be a free 5 yards every time you run

We don’t always run when we line up in “strong” personnel. It’s all about keeping the defense guessing-  show one thing, do another.  Gilliams TD catch was a strong formation- we threw the ball and scored a TD. 

 

Causing confusion = the name of the game regarding calling and O and a D.  Dorsey seems to be doing a very good job of this imo.  We’ve thrown plenty from strong alignments 

[Process]

We need to run the ball as little as possible. 

 

Our run game stinks. Our RBs stink. Our personnel decisions when it comes to RBs stink. 

 

I struggle to remember a running game that looked so ineffective and hopeless. 3rd/4th and 1, I have zero confidence that our RBs can pick it up. 

 

Josh Allen, and short/quick passes to WRs at the LOS, needs to be our run game. 

 

Beane is the GOAT, but to spend THREE highish draft picks on RBs in the last few years and have this to show for it.....OOF. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

As long as the Bills continue what they started last year putting Singletary as the overwhelming starter, only using Moss as breather. 

 

Maybe James Cook will be good, but right now he's not better than Diggs with the ball in his hands, or Gabe Davis getting open, or Allen making plays, so its a secondary development goal, just like the Bills did the other night, running out the clock in the 4th-Quarter with him in a blowout. 

 

As long as Singletary/Moss doesn't trend towards a 50/50 split, I'm happy with the amount we run. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

We have the best QB in the league. You don't take the ball out of his hand. Brady never had a decent run game. Green Bay was hit or miss. Peyton had a solid run game in Indianapolis but not in Denver. 

KC has no sig run game. Rams did with Jackson for a while but no longer.

NFL has changed even in bad weather. 

That said when Singletary was doing well at the end of the year the offense was unstoppable. There will be games this year or perhaps more accurately portions of games where we will need the run game to step up. Even MVP QBs have off days. 

[Inigo Montoya]

I think Dorsey gets it.  He wouldn't have called 20+ pass plays in a row in the Titans game otherwise.  If the passing game is working it looks like he will stick with it until it doesn't.  In the Rams game we had more success running the ball and he ran it more.  Titans game not so much and we ran it less.  I think the offense is in good hands.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

31 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think Dorsey gets it.  He wouldn't have called 20+ pass plays in a row in the Titans game otherwise.  If the passing game is working it looks like he will stick with it until it doesn't.  In the Rams game we had more success running the ball and he ran it more.  Titans game not so much and we ran it less.  I think the offense is in good hands.

 

Titans are usually a good run defense team.  They missed some tackles against the giants but they still carry a pretty stout group of linemen and linebackers.  

 

Their secondary has a lot of young players especially at corner and it looks like dorsey decided - they have no one who can hang with Diggs.  He was right.  

[wjag]

You absolutely have to run or the RPO and fake to the back will never be honored by the linebackers.  Moving the linebackers over the middle is the key to most 10-15 yard throws.

[716er]

4 hours ago, scuba guy said:

Well this has been mentioned before but I believe in the not to distant future we will see a game that the bills just run the ball and sit on the clock. Maybe week 6 but who knows and you are going to see gill as fb and extra ol and tes in the game with delayed handoffs. And dorsey will say to the nfl see if you can stop a 2 headed beast. 🙄 

Than you put our defense out there and get 1 or 2 turnovers the opponent's offense has maybe 4 drives. If we use up 8 plus minutes per drive running the ball.  

 

Jauron ball eh

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Wizard said:

With a top shelf passing game and a solid defense (only going to get better when the CB's and DT's) get healthy, there are no complaints whatsoever about scoring 28-40 points a game with Allen at the helm running a pass heavy offense.

 

I am curious about the vision the team has for the running game though.

 

Is there an ideal split for carries? Do the Bills plan on having three or four capable backs and churning over new ones every few years for salary to be used on other positions while Allen is a top 3 QB the next decade? Do we have 4-5 passing options each down and keep doing that until a team learns to slow the offense a bit?

 

I think it is awesome that the Bills barely utilize a running game. Other than Singletary having  like two big games last year to get over 800 yards, our RB's have averaged like 500-600 yards the past 5 years  when you take away Allen's running skills.

 

I wonder if the Bills will have a bell cow back again, or if RB is likely the 4th option on most plays.

 

Thoughts?  Would you like to see anything different or are you indifferent like me as long as we win?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When we lead the NFL in point differential and are scoring at will throwing the ball, I will never complain that we need to run the ball more.  However, the weather is inevitably going to change.  The playoffs are inevitably going to arrive.  And the one constant is that being able to win in the trenches becomes crucial.  And the reason for that is your team needs to both be able to stop the run and on the other side be able to effectively run the ball.  

 

Doesn't mean you have to be a run first team, just means history has shown us that being able to run the ball makes things easier come winter and the playoffs.  

 

Now...why I am not concerned.  We are dominating in the trenches already.  We have been able to run fairly easy when calling in rhythm running plays (not those funky tricky plays like he tried on 4th and 1 that was god awful play call choice).  The new OL run blocking scheme looks much improved.  Devin has shown he can be very good when given sufficient carries already last year, and that was before the better run blocking scheme.

 

So I think when the time comes and we need to run the ball more (and that could even be this weekend with all the defensive injuries we have to try and hold the ball longer and limit Miami's time of possession), this team is well equipped to be able to get the job done.  In the meantime, if we keep scoring at ease through the air I am just fine with that.  

[folz]

In my opinion, switching backs (Singletary and Moss) every drive is idiotic. Neither guy ever gets in a rhythm with as little as we run. It started with Daboll and Dorsey seems to be following suit. I like Moss, but Motor is clearly the better back and should be getting most of the touches, with Moss spelling him and Cook in on special packages (not sure he's up for a full 3rd-down role yet...not sure of his pass protection). They seem to want to use Moss as their short yardage back, but he's not an old thunder, bull dozier type of player. He's not elite/special in that role by any means. He should be used to spell Motor and maybe in 4-minute drives at the end of the game to wear the other team out (he does have a bit more pop than Singletary).

 

No, we don't need a bell cow back, as we are a passing offense. But, we do need to use our backs better and more strategically.