*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Inigo Montoya]

When Beane extended Josh last year it was the expectation that Jackson and Mayfield would also get an extension done before the start of the regular season.  That never happened and now those two franchises find themselves with a bit of a dilemma.

 

Despite being voted to the Pro Bowl again (and Jackson's team will beat that drum despite the fact he clearly doesn't deserve it), Jackson has had a down year in almost every category and has not been available due to injury for part of the second half of the season.  He hasn't played well enough to get a contract that is more lucrative than Allen's, but that is what they are going to be asking for and it will be tough for the Ravens as an organization to pay him less.

 

Baker has had a terrible season and is also down in almost every meaningful statistical category despite being on a team loaded with talent and behind one of the best O-Lines in the NFL.  No NFL QB has had more interceptions than Baker has in the last four years. He has evolved into a serviceable game managing QB.  In fairness, he has dealt with a non-throwing shoulder injury that muddies the water this year a bit.

 

Here are how the 3 QBs line up statistically this year through Week 17;

 

Josh Allen 2021 

Games Played; 16

Completions;  385

Passing Yards;  4,168

Comp %;  64.1

Passing TD's;  34

INT's;  15

Rushing Yards; 700

Average Per Rush;  6 yards

Rushing TD's;  6

Rushing 1st Downs;  51

 

Lamar Jackson 2021   -  Pro Bowl 

Games Played; 13 full games (knocked out early in game 14)

Completions;  246

Passing Yards;  2,882

Comp %;  64.4

Passing TD's;  16

INT's;  13

Rushing Yards;  767

Average Per Rush;  5.8 yards

Rushing TD's;  2

Rushing 1st Downs;  48

 

Baker Mayfield 2021

Games Played;  15

Completions;  237

Passing Yards;  2,825

Comp %;  62.4

Passing TD's;  15

INT's;  11

Rushing Yards;  118

Average Per Rush;  3.4 yards

Rushing TD's;  1

Rushing 1st Downs;  10

 

Looking at those stats and watching the arc of their careers, while Josh isn't putting up numbers as spectacular as last year, I think he has proven that the 2020 season was not an anomaly.  He is one of the top five QBs in the NFL by any measuring stick.  Lamar and Baker on the other hand have had a year of inconsistency where they have played worse than last year and both teams are unlikely to make the playoffs. 

 

The fact that neither franchise locked down Lamar and Baker before this season means that the organizations harbor some doubt about them and wasn't willing to commit long term no matter what they say publicly.  They kicked the can down the road a year and the question is now what do they do with the 2021 season in the bag?

 

1.)  Do they make them play out their 5th year options and see how they do before coming to the table? 

2.)  Do they play hardball and negotiate a contract less than what Allen got even though the cap is about to explode?

3.)  Do they go after a free agent QB and move on? 

4.)  Do they give them a contract on par or better than Allen's because the other options are unpalatable for various reasons?

5.)  Do they draft a QB and start over (slim pickings this year, especially at their likely draft spot)?

 

I think Lamar clearly has a stronger hand to play than Baker.   Both franchises are in a corner here.  The best thing for the Bills is for both franchises to overpay for their QB.  It's going to be one of the best storylines of the off season this year.  I've got my popcorn ready. 

 

I'm so glad the Bills aren't in that boat.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Inigo Montoya

[HamSandwhich]

Cut em both

[Scott7975]

Either team would be fools to give those QBs an Allen type contract.  Lamar is figured out and isn't a good passer of the football.  Im sure Ill get roll eyes, check marks, and flak for this but I don't care.  I've said it from year one and I will continue to say it.  Lamar is not a good QB.  Probably the best athlete on the field but Lamar said it best... not bad for a RB.

 

As far as Baker he has played with a pretty bad injury all year so its hard to judge but based on his overall work, I don't think he is very good either.  He turns the ball over too much.  If he stopped that he would be a good game manager though.

 

If it were me, I would at best franchise tag those QBs or offer them a mid level contract and look to replace them sooner than later.  Anything more than a mid level contract would just set the team back.  Ravens already made that mistake with Flacco.  Will they make the same mistake twice?  Already seen what the Ravens look like this year from injury.  They aren't going to look any better when they can't pay anyone.  Even full strength, Lamar is not winning them a SB.  He is just a regular season super hero.  Not going to get more than that.  Especially not now.  More and more teams are getting better.  More and more teams have figured out the Lamar/Roman formula.  Contain Lamar.  Take Andrews out of the game.  Lamar isn't good enough after that.  I don't care what wideouts they have.

[John from Riverside]

You just watch though at the beginning of next season we will hear about these huge threats for the Super Bowl that the Browns and the ravens are it happens every year despite the fact that they draft ahead of us every year

 

having said that how do you not give those QBs contracts when it is so hard to find just a serviceable one? You might see hold outs from the QBs because they think they’re worth is more than what the teams want to offer then eventually they will meet in the middle

Edited January 4, 2022 by John from Riverside

[colin]

I think Lamar gets a monster contract, perhaps just back of allen, but the cap expectations might inflate that.

 

I think baker gets a contract that gives the browns an out after a couple years.  i'm not sure what the qb availability i the market looks like, but the browns have a lot of really high draft picks, and their rb, who will come under new contracts soon.  a lot of that skill talent is gonna leave, but the ol and run game will be intact.  a smart franchise would give a team friendly deal (basically the outs are what they need) and see if baker bites. 

[DCofNC]

Jackson will get a big contract, they just have to hope this isn’t the start of a lot of injury issues.  Not saying I want him as my QB, just looking at the infatuation with the guy, I think he gets paid.
 

I would let Baker play it out.  He has steadily regressed, I’d risk it with him..  if he kills it, tag him and get a deal done, if not move on.  If you can’t figure it out in 5 years, I’m not waiting anymore.

Edited January 4, 2022 by DCofNC

[Mr. WEO]

breaking news...

[JMF2006]

17 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Cut em both

 

Not likely but they are not worth 35-40m per yr

 

Maybe 20-25m with lots of performance bonuses to get them to 35-40m

 

[thenorthremembers]

I dont see it as a pickle.   Beyond stats Lamar is 37-12 as a starter, and needs to be re-signed. (made sure to add the space for my boy @Freddie's Dead) Baker is 29-30 and should be let go. 

[SirAndrew]

The Browns are in more of a pickle than the Ravens. The Ravens on field future might be questionable with Jackson under center, but they have no decision to make. Jackson is a somewhat iconic QB, who happens to be one of the faces of today’s NFL. I’d have a lot of trepidation about giving Jackson big money, but the Ravens have no choice. Allowing Jackson to walk immediately throws the franchise into turmoil, with criticism from outsiders, and I also think they’d lose the locker room. Jackson is loved by NFL fans and teammates. You can’t even think about letting that guy go, but it could at the detriment of long term goals for the Ravens. 

[HamSandwhich]

10 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

Not likely but they are not worth 35-40m per yr

 

Maybe 20-25m with lots of performance bonuses to get them to 35-40m

 

Sorry, should have added /sarcasm

[JMF2006]

4 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Sorry, should have added /sarcasm

 

I laughed at it and knew you were kidding.

 

The funny thing is they will both be heavily overpaid.

Edited January 4, 2022 by JMF2006
knew not new

[HamSandwhich]

8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont see it as a pickle.   Beyond stats Lamar is 37-12 as a starter, and needs to be re-signed. (made sure to add the space for my boy @Freddie's Dead) Baker is 29-30 and should be let go. 

I would think there is a question about Lamar. Availability is the best ability right? If his camp is trying to press the idea of a pro bowler this year and get more money than Josh, it’s going to be a hard sell. It could lead to an impasse. Not likely that he would not be re-signed but it’s not open and shut. 
 

There will be questions about hits on the QB and whether or not they are taking their toll. 

[TBBills]

Give both Baker and Lamar huge contracts please.

[Gugny]

Jackson will stay in Baltimore and get paid.

 

I don't think even the Browns are dumb enough to back the truck up for Lil' Baker.  He sucks.  He's a crybaby.  Juice ain't worth the squeeze.

[HOUSE]

I love it when AFC teams are pickled with BIG decisions because most teams will FU......

They will pay the big bucks, lose, tank then start all over again

 

 

..

Edited January 4, 2022 by HOUSE

[GunnerBill]

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

[CNYfan]

I am amazed at how bad Baker plays.  Last night against the Steelers was atrocious.  He has excuses but eegad the Browns are in a terrible quandary.

 

I concur that Lamar will get his contract.  Just be thankful we don't have the baker issue here in Buffalo.  I would let him go, I don't think he can be a great 40 mil franchise QB.

[Greg S]

Baker isn't getting that big payday. To think he was the #1 pick in 2018. He has been a disappointment. They made a point last night saying the Browns offense runs thru Chubb and Hunt. What does that tell you about Baker as a #1 pick?

[HOUSE]

52 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Cut em both

 

That could actually happen if no deal is reached.

[Matt_In_NH]

They both have a 5th year option plus franchise tags to let it play out and decide later, there is no pickle, no need to panic and make a rush decision.

Edited January 4, 2022 by mattynh

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

To think he was the #1 pick in 2018.

That was a mistake.  A number of those were made.

*
Then again, not everyone was wrong. 🤔

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Baker isn't getting that big payday. To think he was the #1 pick in 2018. He has been a disappointment. They made a point last night saying the Browns offense runs thru Chubb and Hunt. What does that tell you about Baker as a #1 pick?

 

He has gone downhill performance wise from his rookie year which was pretty good.  This year is tough because he has a significant injury that he is playing through and is affecting him which could cost him a lot of money.  But I think he gets healthy, plays next year on the option and then the Browns can decide.

[atlbillsfan1975]

4 minutes ago, mattynh said:

They both have a 5th year option plus franchise tags to let it play out and decide later, there is no pickle.

While this is 100% correct the message it sends is we don’t believe in you enough to make a long term commitment. Not to mention the fact the Bills paid Josh. Lamar’s side will point to wins and his MVP. Baker’s side has less leverage but still can point to the playoffs last year.

[Inigo Montoya]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

They both have a 5th year option plus franchise tags to let it play out and decide later, there is no pickle.

 

Definitely could happen that way.  With the cap expected to go up $20 - 30 million dollars in 2023, and likely as much if not more the following year, the Ravens and Browns might wait themselves into a $50 -55 million a year contract.  The Cowboys dragged their feet with Dak and lost that roll of the dice.  The Ravens and Browns might do the same.

[RobbRiddick]

Said this before, I kind of like Baker despite his shortcomings and I think he has the drive and skill to come back from this season with a good 2022, though he'll never put up Allen type numbers. I wouldn't pay him yet and give him another year to see how he does. 

 

Jackson isn't worth the hype around him but his winning % is undeniable. I admire Jackson because he had a lot going against him coming into the league, I get more annoyed with the way the media slobbers all over him every time he makes a "video game" play. 

 

I've realized that Allen and Jackson can be distinguished by a simple rule: if Allen plays 3 sublime quarters of football and then makes a bad INT or fumble he'll get the "oh there's the real Josh Allen" treatment. With Jackson it's the other way around (same for Kyler) in that he can play like ***** for most of the game but makes one incredible scramble and that's all certain people will talk about

[zevo]

baker sucks

 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Is Progressive going to do a commercial where Baker gets evicted?

[ALF]

Spotrac market value FWIW

 

Lamar Jackson  $40.1M  5Y $200.6M  QB rank 3  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lamar-jackson-25127/market-value/

 

Baker Mayfield   $29.1M  5Y $145.7M   QB rank 12

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/baker-mayfield-25096/market-value/

[Freddie's Dead]

51 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont see it as a pickle.   Beyond stats Lamar is 37-12 as a starter, and needs to be re-signed. (made sure to add the space for my boy @Freddie's Dead) Baker is 29-30 and should be let go. 

 

My work is done here 🤪

[Southern Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont see it as a pickle.   Beyond stats Lamar is 37-12 as a starter, and needs to be re-signed. (made sure to add the space for my boy @Freddie's Dead) Baker is 29-30 and should be let go. 

If your going to pay a QB simply based on their record, wouldn’t you have to include how Lamar has looked in the playoffs? 

[billsfan1959]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

 

This is where I stand too. I think Jackson, while not in the tier of Allen, Mahomes, and Rodgers as a passer, is a better passer than many think. He's not going to put up big passing numbers in a Greg Roman Offense. However, in terms of overall production and what he has brought to his team over the last 3 years (42 games), he is up there with Allen (48 games), Rodgers (47 games), and Mahomes (45 games). Mayfield (46 games) is tougher because he just hasn't produced at the level of the other four.

 

[eball]

The Baker situation is the easier one in my mind…the Browns should tell him to play out his 5th year option and then talk.  He has some excuses (injury) and there’s no question he tried to tough it out for the team…probably to his detriment.  But he wasn’t good and they shouldn’t pay him now.

 

Both the Ravens and Lamar are in a pickle.  The Ravens drafted him and then completely designed an offense around him.  If the contract demands are “reasonable” then the Ravens probably extend him, but if Baltimore decides they want to go in another direction because his demands are too high where does he go?  What other team is going to “blow everything up” and craft the offense needed for him to be successful?

 

Lamar won an MVP and has had tremendous success (pre-playoffs).  This year, though, the fear a lot of folks had has come to the forefront — namely, that he’s not a huge guy and that style of play is hazardous to his health.  He also still hasn’t developed fully as a passer.

 

Like the OP mentioned, we should be so happy not to be in either of these spots.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

13 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

Is Progressive going to do a commercial where Baker gets evicted?

Moving day with Baker Mayfield

[Arkady Renko]

We're going too spoiled as Bills fans with Josh Allen.  Five years ago we would be pushing to back the Brinks truck up for a QB like Baker. 

[wjag]

15 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is where I stand too. I think Jackson, while not in the tier of Allen, Mahomes, and Rodgers as a passer, is a better passer than many think. He's not going to put up big passing numbers in a Greg Roman Offense. However, in terms of overall production and what he has brought to his team over the last 3 years (42 games), he is up there with Allen (48 games), Rodgers (47 games), and Mahomes (45 games). Mayfield (46 games) is tougher because he just hasn't produced at the level of the other four.

 

 

Allen is the only one with a Passing, Rushing and Receiving TD.  So clearly better 🙂 

[May Day 10]

Im glad I dont have to make the decision.

 

Mayfield will be a waiting game I think.  His shoulder likely really undermined his season and I am sure he would rather wait and prove it.  The issue is, if he goes back to the previous Mayfield, he is really tough to handicap as far as the rest of the QBs... especially with the backdrop of the Browns who havent really had anyone besides Testaverde and Kosar since Otto Graham.  I could see Mayfield's personality really becoming antagonistic if he does good/decent next season and the deal isnt waiting for him.  

 

Jackson...  I dont know.  I really wouldnt want my team to give him franchise QB money long-term.  I get his record and all as well as some electric games.  But I just dont think he has the ability to be a true franchise QB.  Injuries are going to pile up and he will slow down.  I trust in Baltimore to do the right thing, whatever that is.

[Governor]

My gut tells me that the Ravens are looking for a way out and would love to dump Lamar if possible. Now is the time for them to change course.

 

Only problem is, what team would want Lamar? There’s only a few that would be interested. Houston Perhaps?

Edited January 4, 2022 by Governor

[gjv001]

I think Jackson will get a contract from Baltimore that will be very close to Allen type money. On the other hand, the Browns might try to trade for Russell Wilson or, a cleared to play Watson. The Browns have a win now team, and perhaps feel they are a QB away from the Super Bowl.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

I am amazed at how bad Baker plays.  Last night against the Steelers was atrocious.  He has excuses but eegad the Browns are in a terrible quandary.

 

I concur that Lamar will get his contract.  Just be thankful we don't have the baker issue here in Buffalo.  I would let him go, I don't think he can be a great 40 mil franchise QB.

I don’t think they consider re-signing baker.  Doesn’t seem like a quandary at all to me.  They’ve got an effective running game to lean on and he is still about as successful as a first year player would be for a much lower price tag.  Lamar’s stumbles in the playoffs make it kind of interesting but I don’t see them letting him walk 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan