*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Reminds me of Brian Hoyer’s commercials for Mr. Hero.

Billy Joe Hobert for 'Dependable Motor Freight'.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Jackson is a good to great QB. Baker is at best good.

That said I would not sign either to an extension. They already have the 5th year guaranteed and they can franchise them if need be. Do exactly what Dallas did with Dak. The cap is going up and there will be room to carry a QB on a tag for at least a year. That gives both teams two more years to figure it out. I expect Cleveland will figure Mayfield is not good enough and will move on after 2022. However his shoulder injury this year could explain some of his bad play. Allen had a few bad games with an injured non throwing shoulder and that did not require surgery.  So if Mayfield is just average next year they can decide he is not worth a huge contract and save those dollars for the other first round picks on that team.  Then maybe they make a trade for a veteran QB.

[Wayne Cubed]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Lamar can find lightening in a bottle and win a Superbowl he has a great Head Coach and a great GM who will build and field competitive teams year after year. I don't think he can win multiple. That is the difference between a QB like him and the elite passers. 

 

I agree, I think he could catch lightening in a bottle but I think the Ravens would need a few things going for them as well. Jacksons MVP season, the Ravens went up against a pretty bad AFC North. Roesthisberger was out for season, Cleveland had Freddie Kitchens as HC and the Bengals were awful. They've not repreated that dominance in the AFC North since. And this season, yea they've got injuries, but they've been beaten up by other AFC North teams.

 

There's a shot conditions could be right for them again, with Roesthisberger retiring... the Browns spinning their wheels. My only slight hesitation is with what the Bengals are putting together. They could end up making it very tough for the Ravens, for a long time.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

46 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yep, Cleveland is stuck in QB purgatory right now, you built too good of a team to fail hard enough to get a good pick, but you don’t have the guy that can get you over the hump.  They are set up for years of 9-8, with the occasional glimmer of hope, maybe pulling off the 12 wins on a years when their NFC schedule is putrid and they will keep trying to find the one piece to get them over the hump.  Meanwhile, Cincy has a core that’s going to destroy them for years.   This is the problem with not having the right QB, we had it here for years, just good enough to never tank, never good enough to actually contend.  Baker is (at least the current version of him) the equivalent of a slightly stronger armed Fitzpatrick.  That’s to say, there are games where he’s great, but those costly mistakes when it comes to crunch time will kill you.  Look at Fitz with the Jets, as front runners he’d bury you, but there’s not a QB in the league you would rather face than Fitz and Now Baker late in the game, when they had to make it happen.

 

Jackson is essentially a modern Vick with less of an arm.  I think he also puts you in purgatory, but he also gives you chances that nobody else can.  I wouldn’t want him as my franchise, but once you have him, it’s next to impossible to let it go.  I could see him finding lightning in a bottle and winning a SB, but I really doubt it.  The D will have to be exceptional and the opponents will have to have the right weakness’s and a LOT will have to bounce their way for it to happen.

 

They're 8-8 using running backs who weren't even on the camp roster.  They've used 3 different QBs.  Peters missed all season.  Humphrey banged up and now done for the year  All 3 of their top WRs have missed time.  Stanley has barely played.  They've used a ton of linemen all year long.

 

They're a good team when a lot of those guys are in the game, jackson especially.  He'll get paid.

[TheBrownBear]

There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that have led to the drop in performance we've seen from Baker and Lamar this season.  I'm not super high on either of them, but they are much better than they've shown in 2021.  The Ravens have been decimated by injuries this year and we know Baker isn't healthy.  I think the Browns and Ravens should find a way to lock up these guys. 

 

I think Lamar gets a Josh Allen type of contract in the offseason.  Maybe a little more based on the cap and inflation.  I'm not saying he's "worth" that, but they need to keep him and that's what he's going to demand.

 

As for the Browns, they were a nothing joke before Baker.  Do they really want to play the QB carousel again for 20 years?  Baker is probably around the 12-15th best QB in the NFL when healthy.  The question is whether the Browns can get Baker to sign for a contract number in that range.  They shouldn't break the bank for him, but do they want to roll the dice on him bouncing back with a big year in 2022 and demanding huge money or walking?

 

 

[DCofNC]

49 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

If Jackson were to catch that lightning and get 1 Super Bowl and then just be a realt good regular season QB who loses in the playoffs…

 

How much different would that make him than Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees?  And a head of guys like Philip Rivers with what they were able to accomplish in their careers?

You have a point, there’s going to be a tough road to a SB for anybody out of the AFC for a few years at least.  KC, Buffalo,Tenn, Cincy all look to have a solid program that should be in the playoffs every year.  Baltimore should be too, but they have been snake bit this year, still really impressive where they are given the circumstances.  Then you have LAC, NE, possibly Miami, Indy who are all on the cusp of having it all together.  So if he does in fact find a way to win one, he may be seen in a similar light as those guys.

25 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

They're 8-8 using running backs who weren't even on the camp roster.  They've used 3 different QBs.  Peters missed all season.  Humphrey banged up and now done for the year  All 3 of their top WRs have missed time.  Stanley has barely played.  They've used a ton of linemen all year long.

 

They're a good team when a lot of those guys are in the game, jackson especially.  He'll get paid.

No doubt, that team should be way further ahead, they have done great given the situation.  They don’t HAVE to pay Lamar this year though.

[DCofNC]

16 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that have led to the drop in performance we've seen from Baker and Lamar this season.  I'm not super high on either of them, but they are much better than they've shown in 2021.  The Ravens have been decimated by injuries this year and we know Baker isn't healthy.  I think the Browns and Ravens should find a way to lock up these guys. 

 

I think Lamar gets a Josh Allen type of contract in the offseason.  Maybe a little more based on the cap and inflation.  I'm not saying he's "worth" that, but they need to keep him and that's what he's going to demand.

 

As for the Browns, they were a nothing joke before Baker.  Do they really want to play the QB carousel again for 20 years?  Baker is probably around the 12-15th best QB in the NFL when healthy.  The question is whether the Browns can get Baker to sign for a contract number in that range.  They shouldn't break the bank for him, but do they want to roll the dice on him bouncing back with a big year in 2022 and demanding huge money or walking?

 

 

Both have 5th year options so nothing is going to change for this year, I’d roll the dice on Baker.  If he shows up, sweet pay him, if not, bye.  Jackson is the only QB likely to get big money even next year so why not let him play this year, the big dogs have been paid, let it roll, the market isn’t going to change much. 
 

The Bills played it a little safe, but might actually have signed Josh too early.  You got him after what might be the best season he’ll ever have, might have gotten a better deal this year honestly.  Doubt it matters much, but might have given another year of him under control.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I know I’m 5 pages late to this. 
 

please summarize all the QB’s in Josh’s draft year?

 

J Rosen. Fail ✅ 

 

B Mayfield ??? 🤔 🤷 

 

S Darnold Fail ✅ X 2

 

J Allen 💯 success story 💯 % Grade A QB 

 

L Jackson ??? 🤔 🤷 

 

Did I miss anyone?

Edited January 4, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You have a point, there’s going to be a tough road to a SB for anybody out of the AFC for a few years at least.  KC, Buffalo,Tenn, Cincy all look to have a solid program that should be in the playoffs every year.  Baltimore should be too, but they have been snake bit this year, still really impressive where they are given the circumstances.  Then you have LAC, NE, possibly Miami, Indy who are all on the cusp of having it all together.  So if he does in fact find a way to win one, he may be seen in a similar light as those guys.

No doubt, that team should be way further ahead, they have done great given the situation.  They don’t HAVE to pay Lamar this year though.

 

You would structure it around the cap hit in 2022 - Allens is only 16M in 2022.  

14 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Both have 5th year options so nothing is going to change for this year, I’d roll the dice on Baker.  If he shows up, sweet pay him, if not, bye.  Jackson is the only QB likely to get big money even next year so why not let him play this year, the big dogs have been paid, let it roll, the market isn’t going to change much. 
 

The Bills played it a little safe, but might actually have signed Josh too early.  You got him after what might be the best season he’ll ever have, might have gotten a better deal this year honestly.  Doubt it matters much, but might have given another year of him under control.

 

After being injured for stretches this year - i would expect jackson to hold out if they don't extend him.  

[JGMcD2]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

I’ve been having this debate with a  friend of mine who is a Browns fan and I think he’s finally starting to come around on this. 
 

Baker is a fine quarterback, but he’s not worth the $35M he thinks he deserves. It’s not really not even close. His production is worth around $25M. Spotrac has him at $30M but I think that’s too high. 

 

He’s heavily protected by that run game.
Baker is a player in a similar vein to Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy Garoppolo (Mac Jones and Tua Tagovailoa are entering this discussion too). They’re definitely above average, but they need help around them to support them. They’re not able to carry a team for stretches of a season, but they’re not bad enough where you feel like you should replace them. 

 

I think Cleveland is better off paying Nick Mullens around $10M a year for 3 years to run the same offense. The offense line is already top 5 in football, the defense has talent all over the place, spend the $25M you’d save from not signing Baker an use it to stack the offense with weapons. Mullens will give you 90% of the production Baker gives you for 30% of the cost. It’s actually crazy how similar their per game numbers are to this point. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

Huntley is the same player as Jackson in both rushing and passing. Jackson only has 2 multiple TD passing games this season out of 11 and 2 games over 300 yards. Huntley possesses similar running skills too. Both have 2 TDs, Huntley in 6 fewer games played. Jackson has ~500 more yards, which with 6 extra games Huntley could easily cut into. 
 

take Huntley the cheaper option. Get a hopefully big return for Jackson. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Huntley is the same player as Jackson in both rushing and passing. Jackson only has 2 multiple TD passing games this season out of 11 and 2 games over 300 yards. Huntley possesses similar running skills too. Both have 2 TDs, Huntley in 6 fewer games played. Jackson has ~500 more yards, which with 6 extra games Huntley could easily cut into. 
 

take Huntley the cheaper option. Get a hopefully big return for Jackson. 

 

You won't find a bigger Tyler Huntley fan than me I banged on about him coming out of the 2020 Shrine game, but he is most definitely not "the same player as Jackson." 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I’ve been having this debate with a  friend of mine who is a Browns fan and I think he’s finally starting to come around on this. 
 

Baker is a fine quarterback, but he’s not worth the $35M he thinks he deserves. It’s not really not even close. His production is worth around $25M. Spotrac has him at $30M but I think that’s too high. 

 

He’s heavily protected by that run game.
Baker is a player in a similar vein to Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy Garoppolo (Mac Jones and Tua Tagovailoa are entering this discussion too). They’re definitely above average, but they need help around them to support them. They’re not able to carry a team for stretches of a season, but they’re not bad enough where you feel like you should replace them. 

 

I think Cleveland is better off paying Nick Mullens around $10M a year for 3 years to run the same offense. The offense line is already top 5 in football, the defense has talent all over the place, spend the $25M you’d save from not signing Baker an use it to stack the offense with weapons. Mullens will give you 90% of the production Baker gives you for 30% of the cost. It’s actually crazy how similar their per game numbers are to this point. 

 

The problem is its rare (especially in todays nfl) for a nick mullens to get you to a super bowl.  I'd say the 2019 49ers are the exception - and look at the 4th quarter of that game and tell me they don't wish they had a better quarterback.  Too much needs to go right for you to win one, and the inability to score quickly can doom you.  

 

The 2017 eagles may work considering they did it with foles - but they also avoided brees and rodgers in that postseason.  Foles also played really well during the playoffs - far above what he's capable of on a season long basis.  The Vikings were probably the "mullens' example from 2017 with keenum.  And they immediately looked for an upgrade after the NFC championship game.

 

Tennessee's certainly set up to be the next team to make some playoff noise with this approach- if they can avoid shooting themselves in the foot.  When they get off game script things tend to go pretty poorly for them.  I'm also not sold on how good their defense is - they're likely looking to avoid having to play buffalo/cincy/LAC in round 2, especially if they're likely to play KC in the afc championship.  

[Doc]

I’d make them both play under their 5th year tenders and reassess mid-season.  Both of them had concerning seasons. 

[FilthyBeast]

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

[quinnearlysghost88]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You won't find a bigger Tyler Huntley fan than me I banged on about him coming out of the 2020 Shrine game, but he is most definitely not "the same player as Jackson." 

Okay, you give Jackson and Huntley the keys to the same team at the start of the season, how many more wins is Jackson honestly going to produce over Huntley? I mean he just lost to GB by 1 with two rushing TDs and he’s 23 haha. It’s not even a hard choice here. 

[teef]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

there's absolutely nothing true about this at all.  you really have to be special to even make a comment like this.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

They may have made a mistake extending him thinking that Mayfield and Jackson were getting new deals, but not because of Josh’s production.

[Seventeen]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think his injury has impacted him but there were throws to be made last night where he just wasn’t seeing the field. He looked lost. I think they will bring in competition for him this season in some form or fashion. Potentially draft a guy like Sam Howell. Or sign Trubisky (who is from Cleveland). Mayfield seems to thrive when his back is against the wall. That said he may prefer a fresh start. He was not drafted by this regime and I don’t think they are all that invested in his success.  I could see him traded somewhere like Houston. Similar to the Darnold trade last year. The browns also really need a #1 WR any better TEs to get the passing game out of the gutter. 

 

This is most likely the plan ... they can also move up and take Pickett / Corral and sign Trubisky. If Wilson leaves Seattle, might be a good restart for Baker.

[BillsFanSD]

I think the Ravens are in pretty good shape.  Lamar is fantastic, and I'd be shocked if they weren't willing to commit to him based on his overall body of work.  I don't expect Jackson to have a long career in the NFL because he's not a good passer, but they can win with him while he has his athleticism.  They've already shown that they're willing to build their offense around his skill set.

 

The Browns have a serious problem on their hands.  Mayfield's ceiling is "above average starter" and I'm not sure that he'll even reach that.  I'm sure they would love to have a do-over on that draft pick, but that's moot now.  They would be torpedoing their franchise to sign Mayfield to Allen/Mahomes/Jackson money but some (*^*&%^$^#team will give him a big contract if the Browns don't and do they really want to start over with a new guy.  Glad we're not them.

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

there's absolutely nothing true about this at all.  you really have to be special to even make a comment like this.  

 

No I deal in facts my friend, despite the rampant homerism here and in Bills mafia's heads in general there's a reason why Allen wasn't voted to the probowl this year and that reason was pretty much on full display against a terrible Falcons team and defense.

 

Josh is a good QB, that's not the issue. But there's nothing about at this point in time that says he's truly elite and worth being the highest paid QB in the NFL especially with such woeful inconsistency coming off a great game in NE and then having one of the worst of his career at home against a pathetic team and defense. To be elite you have to play at that level consistently. Not have a few great games sandwiched between multiple clunkers or just average outings over the course of  16+ game campaign.

 

Now if he has a season like 2020 or better next year, or better yet delivers a SB appearance/win this year then obviously myself and other critics are dead wrong but until then the fact say he's simply that not the guy some fans want to believe he is. But then again there are very few of them in this league to begin with outside of Brady/Mahomes/Rogers/etc.

[GoBills808]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

No I deal in facts my friend, despite the rampant homerism here and in Bills mafia's heads in general there's a reason why Allen wasn't voted to the probowl this year and that reason was pretty much on full display against a terrible Falcons team and defense.

 

Josh is a good QB, that's not the issue. But there's nothing about at this point in time that says he's truly elite and worth being the highest paid QB in the NFL especially with such woeful inconsistency coming off a great game in NE and then having one of the worst of his career at home against a pathetic team and defense. To be elite you have to play at that level consistently. Not have a few great games sandwiched between multiple clunkers or just average outings over the course of  16+ game campaign.

 

Now if he has a season like 2020 or better next year, or better yet delivers a SB appearance/win this year then obviously myself and other critics are dead wrong but until then the fact say he's simply that not the guy some fans want to believe he is. But then again there are very few of them in this league to begin with outside of Brady/Mahomes/Rogers/etc.

Sorry about the Dolphins 

[Jerome007]

4 hours ago, Greg S said:

Baker isn't getting that big payday. To think he was the #1 pick in 2018. He has been a disappointment. They made a point last night saying the Browns offense runs thru Chubb and Hunt. What does that tell you about Baker as a #1 pick?

Well that OL and Chubb are awesome. It's weird that Baker was by far the most "NFL ready" of the 2018 QBs. He just has plateaued out quickly for some reason. He's still a good starter. BTW that's what I feared with Josh. Not that he'd be a bust, but that he'd be in the "good/very good but not elite" category. You're often stuck with these guys. Thankfully he has been... elite

 

Lamar could turn out to be a contract nightmare because of injuries and limitations, but as of now, they have to sign him. I don't wish bad on the players... but it'd sure help the Bills if both these guys sign huge contracts and are disappointments...

[TBBills]

11 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

You always manage to say the wrong thing. Thankfully  you have a habit about it and people know this.

 

He didn't regress this year just FYI.

Edited January 4, 2022 by TBBills

[BillsFanSD]

11 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

LOL I hope the Bills extend Allen again this offseason just to ruin your day.

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

No I deal in facts my friend, despite the rampant homerism here and in Bills mafia's heads in general there's a reason why Allen wasn't voted to the probowl this year and that reason was pretty much on full display against a terrible Falcons team and defense.

 

Josh is a good QB, that's not the issue. But there's nothing about at this point in time that says he's truly elite and worth being the highest paid QB in the NFL especially with such woeful inconsistency coming off a great game in NE and then having one of the worst of his career at home against a pathetic team and defense. To be elite you have to play at that level consistently. Not have a few great games sandwiched between multiple clunkers or just average outings over the course of  16+ game campaign.

 

Now if he has a season like 2020 or better next year, or better yet delivers a SB appearance/win this year then obviously myself and other critics are dead wrong but until then the fact say he's simply that not the guy some fans want to believe he is. But then again there are very few of them in this league to begin with outside of Brady/Mahomes/Rogers/etc.

Again you are wrong... you do this to troll or just really wrong with information?

Edited January 4, 2022 by TBBills

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, TBBills said:

You always manage to say the wrong thing. Thankfully  you have a habit about it and people know this.

 

He didn't regress this year just FYI.

 

Go look at his YOY production from 2020 to 2021 and the facts will tell you otherwise.

 

Again, it doesn't mean he's a bad QB and I'm not saying that. But he's not worth $250 million thus far and the smarter move would have been to wait like the Ravens and Browns did.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

No I deal in facts my friend, despite the rampant homerism here and in Bills mafia's heads in general there's a reason why Allen wasn't voted to the probowl this year and that reason was pretty much on full display against a terrible Falcons team and defense.

 

Josh is a good QB, that's not the issue. But there's nothing about at this point in time that says he's truly elite and worth being the highest paid QB in the NFL especially with such woeful inconsistency coming off a great game in NE and then having one of the worst of his career at home against a pathetic team and defense. To be elite you have to play at that level consistently. Not have a few great games sandwiched between multiple clunkers or just average outings over the course of  16+ game campaign.

 

Now if he has a season like 2020 or better next year, or better yet delivers a SB appearance/win this year then obviously myself and other critics are dead wrong but until then the fact say he's simply that not the guy some fans want to believe he is. But then again there are very few of them in this league to begin with outside of Brady/Mahomes/Rogers/etc.

Josh deserved to make the Pro Bowl over Jackson.  That is indisputable to anyone but a blatant homer.  Despite the 2 tipped pass interceptions against the Falcons.

[Scott7975]

31 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Huntley is the same player as Jackson in both rushing and passing. Jackson only has 2 multiple TD passing games this season out of 11 and 2 games over 300 yards. Huntley possesses similar running skills too. Both have 2 TDs, Huntley in 6 fewer games played. Jackson has ~500 more yards, which with 6 extra games Huntley could easily cut into. 
 

take Huntley the cheaper option. Get a hopefully big return for Jackson. 

 

While I don't agree they are the same player I think they are close enough.  The cost savings plus what they could fleece another team for trading Lamar is worth doing IMO.  Jackson can run better and is the better over all athlete but I think Huntley can run well enough and is the better passer of the two.  At least from what I have watched from Huntley so far.

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

Again you are wrong... you do this to troll or just really wrong with information?

 

Where am I wrong?

 

He didn't make the probowl which I know is not everything but a guy handed $250 million contract should definitely be in the top 3 of the conference and outside of biased fans the people that matter understood he's not a top QB in the conference.

 

Also go examine the key metrics for yourself in terms of his completion percentage, QB rating, INT, etc all worse than 2020:

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen-4/

 

Again, the crux of my argument is simply that Beane should have waited to resign/extend him not that Allen sucks or something because he doesn't.

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Go look at his YOY production from 2020 to 2021 and the facts will tell you otherwise.

 

Again, it doesn't mean he's a bad QB and I'm not saying that. But he's not worth $250 million thus far and the smarter move would have been to wait like the Ravens and Browns did.

The facts actually  show he didn't.  See you don't know how to look at what the weather was compared to last season. You don't realize more than half the Bills games were bad weather games. You have all the wrong information and this isn't even close to the first time you have done stupid ***** like this before.

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

Where am I wrong?

 

He didn't make the probowl which I know is not everything but a guy handed $250 million contract should definitely be in the top 3 of the conference and outside of biased fans the people that matter understood he's not a top QB in the conference.

 

Also go examine the key metrics for yourself in terms of his completion percentage, QB rating, INT, etc all worse than 2020:

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen-4/

 

Again, the crux of my argument is simply that Beane should have waited to resign/extend him not that Allen sucks or something because he doesn't.

I just explained it to you, you are wrong. Like always.

[Doc]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

Where am I wrong?

 

He didn't make the probowl which I know is not everything but a guy handed $250 million contract should definitely be in the top 3 of the conference and outside of biased fans the people that matter understood he's not a top QB in the conference.

 

Also go examine the key metrics for yourself in terms of his completion percentage, QB rating, INT, etc all worse than 2020:

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen-4/

 

Again, the crux of my argument is simply that Beane should have waited to resign/extend him not that Allen sucks or something because he doesn't.

You are wrong using Allen’s snub for the pro bowl as evidence of anything. Do you think that Lamar Jackson deserved to make the pro bowl?

[FilthyBeast]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

Josh deserved to make the Pro Bowl over Jackson.  That is indisputable to anyone but a blatant homer.  Despite the 2 tipped pass interceptions against the Falcons.

 

Jackson was carrying the Ravens and they were 8-3 with him healthy which shows he was not only an MVP candidate but top QB in the conference.

 

And he did most of this with him arm this year vs being a 'running QB'.

 

Obviously if Allen got hurt the Bills would also be in a world of trouble but the league obviously feels he's not the main reason the team is any good especially with the #1 overall ranked defense.

 

[TBBills]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

Jackson was carrying the Ravens and they were 8-3 with him healthy which shows he was not only an MVP candidate but top QB in the conference.

 

And he did most of this with him arm this year vs being a 'running QB'.

 

Obviously if Allen got hurt the Bills would also be in a world of trouble but the league obviously feels he's not the main reason the team is any good especially with the #1 overall ranked defense.

 

You are a really bad troll. 

[GoBills808]

Trying way too hard guy

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

You are wrong using Allen’s snub for the pro bowl as evidence of anything. Do you think that Lamar Jackson deserved to make the pro bowl?

 

Yes see above post, especially since their season has cratered without him and Jackson was carrying an injury ravaged team to the best record in the conference through the first 2/3rd of the season.

[Scott7975]

17 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

 

Are you insane?  Oh wait never mind.  I forgot you just like to troll.  Jackson was having nowhere near a "borderline MVP year."  Not even in the stratosphere of close.

 

They wouldn't have had him cheaper.  The cap is going up.  His "regression" and production this year has earned what he is getting paid.  He is still a top 5 QB in this league with his regression/production this year.

 

The only mistake is letting you continually troll the boards.  Everyone here knows who and what you are.  Honestly Im surprised you didn't disappear after the Pats game like you did last year.

[teef]

11 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

No I deal in facts my friend, despite the rampant homerism here and in Bills mafia's heads in general there's a reason why Allen wasn't voted to the probowl this year and that reason was pretty much on full display against a terrible Falcons team and defense.

 

Josh is a good QB, that's not the issue. But there's nothing about at this point in time that says he's truly elite and worth being the highest paid QB in the NFL especially with such woeful inconsistency coming off a great game in NE and then having one of the worst of his career at home against a pathetic team and defense. To be elite you have to play at that level consistently. Not have a few great games sandwiched between multiple clunkers or just average outings over the course of  16+ game campaign.

 

Now if he has a season like 2020 or better next year, or better yet delivers a SB appearance/win this year then obviously myself and other critics are dead wrong but until then the fact say he's simply that not the guy some fans want to believe he is. But then again there are very few of them in this league to begin with outside of Brady/Mahomes/Rogers/etc.

the very fact you took the few minutes to write a reply like this shows how little you value your time.  every year that passes, josh's contract will look better and better.  you deserve the flack you get on this board.  but for that matter, i'm pretty sure the attention is what you're after in the first place.

[BillsFanSD]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Where am I wrong?

 

He didn't make the probowl which I know is not everything but a guy handed $250 million contract should definitely be in the top 3 of the conference and outside of biased fans the people that matter understood he's not a top QB in the conference.

Nobody besides you thinks that Josh Allen is not one of the top QBs in the AFC.

 

Don't get me wrong -- the AFC has a lot of good young QBs.  Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, and Herbert all look like franchise guys.  I don't know if Mac Jones, Mayfield, Wilson, Lawrence etc. will develop or not, but those guys obviously have potential too.  But come on.  If we re-run the 2018 draft tomorrow, 32 out of 32 teams would have Allen as the top-rated guy on their board.    

[Doc]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

Jackson was carrying the Ravens and they were 8-3 with him healthy which shows he was not only an MVP candidate but top QB in the conference.

 

And he did most of this with him arm this year vs being a 'running QB'.

 

Obviously if Allen got hurt the Bills would also be in a world of trouble but the league obviously feels he's not the main reason the team is any good especially with the #1 overall ranked defense.

You’re kidding, right? His 18 total touchdowns and 16 total turnovers was carrying the team?  LOL!