Leslie Frazier linked to Raiders and Jaguars. Ken Dorsey rumored to be going with Frazier.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

then why do so many assume he would be Bills OC if Daboll leaves?  Just because he may want to be an OC?

Yeah, exactly

[Buffalo_Stampede]

21 minutes ago, MJS said:

Wow, if it is true that Dorsey has been groomed to be the next OC when Daboll leaves, that would suck.

 

But this is what happens to the best teams. Coaches get poached. Players get overpaid in free agency. You have to overcome losing coaches and players and keep the ball rolling. It's why drafting and developing talent is so important.

 

Hope Leslie Frasier and Brian Daboll get a real shot this year. They deserve it.

If Dorsey has OC lined up in Buffalo he wouldn't leave to be OC somewhere else.

 

If Dorsey leaves it likely means Daboll isn't leaving or the OC job replacing Daboll isn't a lock.

[First Round Bust]

3 hours ago, london_bills said:

If we have to replace the DC, QB coach and OC then it might be quite difficult!!

isnt dorsey the passing game coord ? as well ??/

of lord we are totally screwed

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, DrPJax said:

Nothing stays the same in the NFL.  we have our franchise qb, the one position that held us back for 20 years.   Lots of oc’s  , qb.coaches , and lots of d coordinators could work with this talent on this team. As long as Mcd and Beane stay in sync and fill

 the roster, I’m all for new blood in the thought process.  Josh is no longer “ a project “ , he is a star.   Lots of guys can be creative with him.  Probably just as well or bettter than Daboll who has one good game for every couple that are called with no identity or consistency.  Have you forgotten we have no run gsme ?  Who do you think is responsible for that ?    Very expensive d line yet little in the way of sacks or premiere edge rushers.  We lost a game where a rookie Qb completed one pass and how is that vaulted run d doing!   
All I am saying is change can be good.  We are 9-6 with talent that should have been in the run for a first seed and a SB challenge. Let’s see how it plays out , but we have had our share of questionable coaching and maybe it’s time for a change with a more mature qb and roster.  Nothing is permanent in this league, so that’s the least of oir worries.  We have a top 3:qb , we will be competitive as long as we have him. 

 

 

Everyone should have "forgotten we have no run game." It was never true and it's even less so now as they seem to have remembered to use it and improved it.

 

Daboll's been excellent, and they seem to have hit a groove now. The coaching has been very good here and continues to be so. Which is why people are sniffing around these guys. 

 

My one concern is that they can now interview guys early, even in playoff teams, and that could lead to divided attention. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

 

Change can be good? Yeah, I'm with you there. It'll depend on who we get, obviously, but the third-rounders would certainly help over the next couple of years.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

 A noodle arm which has thrown longest completion in Bills history most of it in air.  Strong noodle.

 

 

49 - 50 yards in the air, and about 54 yards run by Owens. So most of it was not in the air.

 

 He threw it from 3-4 yards deep in the end zone and Owens caught it on the Bills 46. 49 yards in the air, maybe 50 if you want to give it the benefit of the doubt. 98 yards from scrimmage. 54 yards running. Most of it was not in the air. And Owens caught it at waist height.

 

Was it an excellent throw? Yeah, certainly. But he had to put a lot of air under it to get it that far.

 

In any case, Fitz did not have a very strong arm. He was a good man and a gutsy smart QB but he did not have a strong arm for an NFL QB.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Thurman#1

[stuvian]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No chance the Raiders trade him

Raiders are going for a full on rebuild

[Coach Tuesday]

None of this concerns me.  Coaches don’t count towards the salary cap - there is no excuse for failing to have top-level coaching and training staffs.  Plus small changes in scheme can be good, and it’s good for the “process” for coaches to come here, “reach the best versions of themselves,” and get promotions.  Helps attract more good coaches.

[BobbyC81]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Carr is most likely not going to be on the Raiders after this season

That reminds me. I forgot to mention that I watched the Raiders game last week.  Carr got dinged and went into the medical tent. Broadcast team monitored situation and they showed Peterman warming up.  Opponent getting ready to punt and it’s pointed out that Peterman has put his helmet on and standing near coach.  Carr comes out of tent and tuns out onto the field.  😂 

 

So, did they dodge a bullet?

[TBBills]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

 A noodle arm which has thrown longest completion in Bills history most of it in air.  Strong noodle.

lol one play where he gave it everything he had and you want to point to one single time... he had a noodle arm and that pass shows it b.c it showed how much he had to put into it just to get it that far. Fitz has been in the league forever and people still can't accept who he really was at a QB. As just a player he was awesome b.c he had the ability to make some special plays but his noodle arm would never let him into the playoffs. 

 

Fitz curse, NEVER made the playoffs. He had chances to win and get in but would throw multiuple INT's in critical times of the game b.c of his noodle arm. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by TBBills

[Magox]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea he has only had 3 top 5 defenses in 5 years Leslie Frazier. He must suck.

Frazier has been great.   The Bills defense has consistently been a good defense specially so against the pass.

 

With that said, I believe McDermott also plays a role in that and I believe that he and Beane would find a good replacement for him.  Enough so that if that trade rumor were true, I would jump all over that.  The Bills are heading into more challenging cap territory and 2 early mid round picks could potentially land a low cost starter, which is what Buffalo will need to do to stay in their SuperBowl window.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Magox said:

Frazier has been great.   The Bills defense has consistently been a good defense specially so against the pass.

 

With that said, I believe McDermott also plays a role in that and I believe that he and Beane would find a good replacement for him.  Enough so that if that trade rumor were true, I would jump all over that.  The Bills are heading into more challenging cap territory and 2 early mid round picks could potentially land a low cost starter, which is what Buffalo will need to do to stay in their SuperBowl window.

 

Oh it is McDermott's scheme, no question. But Leslie runs it so well because they learned it together under Jim Johnson. McDermott has taken over playcalling once in 5 years for all the people who think that happens often. I am sure the Bills will find a replacement but make no mistake Frazier is a premier defensive coordinator in the NFL.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 hours ago, TBBills said:

Teams with good HC's don't really falter b.c of internal changes. Give me some picks.

[jwhit34]

There are position coaches both on offense and defense that would be in line to move up to OC or DC, which I expect to happen if Frazier or Daboll leave for HC jobs. Couple that with the facts that Allen is still the QB and it's largely McDermott's defensive concepts and the offensive and defensive playbooks remain virtually the same, with the usual offseason tweaks.

 

Also if Dorsey is offered an OC job he probably waits to see if Daboll stays or goes. If Daboll gets a HC position and they offer Dorsey the OC job I'm guessing he's taking it so he can stay with Allen. Proving that he can step in and the offense doesn't miss a beat is his best path to a HC job vs. being the OC for a bottom third NFL team. 

[without a drought]

Anything is better than replacing quarterbacks and head coaches every couple of years.

[jethro_tull]

Coach poaching is yet another thing to deal with during a playoff run.  It affects the coaches, their focus and the team dynamic and no doubt needs to be dealt with effectively or it will become a distraction.  McD did an excellent job proclaiming that he is happy for them and welcomes greater success.

The NFL should disallow in-season coach poaching.    

[Punching Bag]

10 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

Coach poaching is yet another thing to deal with during a playoff run.  It affects the coaches, their focus and the team dynamic and no doubt needs to be dealt with effectively or it will become a distraction.  McD did an excellent job proclaiming that he is happy for them and welcomes greater success.

The NFL should disallow in-season coach poaching.    

 

NFL should disallow any coach hiring except for emergencies (i.e. Coach died or sent to jail) during playoffs.  

This would allow more coaches to get a shot at promotions rather just those out of playoffs or been not working for a while.

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

NFL should disallow any coach hiring except for emergencies (i.e. Coach died or sent to jail) during playoffs.  

This would allow more coaches to get a shot at promotions rather just those out of playoffs or been not working for a while.

Oddly enough, I believe this interview process right now is new and supposed to alleviate those issues.

 

Ironically the Bills proposed this past offseason that interviews should begin after the conference championships and hiring should take place after the Super Bowl.
 

The rest of the teams didn’t go for it because they felt it would set them back for free agency/draft planning. 

[aristocrat]

Spencer brown, moss, singletary, Harry ,Knox all third round picks. Milano, gabe, teller later round picks. I would welcome any one of those guys added to the roster next year especially o line

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Carr is most likely not going to be on the Raiders after this season

I would have believed that a few seasons back, but I think he acquitted himself well this season as a, while not elite, quality starter you can win with

[frostbitmic]

Teams don't like waiting until after the Super Bowl to hire HC's, we won't be losing either of them.

[JGMcD2]

I’m starting to do the arithmetic on the potential Head Coach openings and rumored names… we might not lose Frazier or Daboll… again. 

 

[H2o]

If we were to lose all 3 of Frazier, Daboll, and Dorsey then this team would take a hit imo. I've always thought Dorsey was our OC in waiting. That would mean Josh, Diggs, Davis, Knox, and whoever else would be starting over in a completely new system. I don't like it. 

[mannc]

47 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I’m starting to do the arithmetic on the potential Head Coach openings and rumored names… we might not lose Frazier or Daboll… again. 

 

I’d be surprised if either is a HC next year, no matter how well the Bills finish the season.  I could maybe see Frazier getting a shot somewhere like Vegas, where they need some stability and sanity.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

If we were to lose all 3 of Frazier, Daboll, and Dorsey then this team would take a hit imo. I've always thought Dorsey was our OC in waiting. That would mean Josh, Diggs, Davis, Knox, and whoever else would be starting over in a completely new system. I don't like it. 

a few things come to mind with the worries about losing Daboll/Dorsey…

 

1) in a lot of ways - josh is the system at this point

 

2) there’s not a shortage of guys out there that could come in with similar verbiage and concepts 

 

3) based on point 1, would all those pass catchers be happy if someone came in and installed an identity that stretched beyond putting it all on josh. For instance is gabe Davis a better receiver with a strong run game and josh not taking a beating, even if he needs to learn a few new reads. 

[RyanC883]

On 12/31/2021 at 7:36 PM, london_bills said:

If we have to replace the DC, QB coach and OC then it might be quite difficult!!

 

Pats had to do this all the time.  If you are a winning team this happens.  I’d rather Daboll go. 

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

If we were to lose all 3 of Frazier, Daboll, and Dorsey then this team would take a hit imo. I've always thought Dorsey was our OC in waiting. That would mean Josh, Diggs, Davis, Knox, and whoever else would be starting over in a completely new system. I don't like it. 

I think with that kind of talent many excellent coaches will want to be an OC for this team.

[Weatherman]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Pats had to do this all the time.  If you are a winning team this happens.  I’d rather Daboll go. 

They’ve had the same HC, OC, and scouting (cheating) specialists for over a decade.  

[Turk71]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:48 PM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I’d love to see this defense with more McDermott and less Fraiser. Probably a lot less soft shell conservative and a lot more aggression.

I definitely prefer the aggressive approach; especially with how explosive the Bills offense can be.  I'd rather get off the field quicker.

  The soft d is like dying the 'death of a thousand cuts' and keeps the Bills offense off the field too long. It drives me crazy watching them give up first downs underneath while the secondary plays behind the line to gain.

  Giving the Bills offense more opportunities at the cost of giving up an occasional big play on defense is a winning trade.

[H2o]

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

a few things come to mind with the worries about losing Daboll/Dorsey…

 

1) in a lot of ways - josh is the system at this point

 

2) there’s not a shortage of guys out there that could come in with similar verbiage and concepts 

 

3) based on point 1, would all those pass catchers be happy if someone came in and installed an identity that stretched beyond putting it all on josh. For instance is gabe Davis a better receiver with a strong run game and josh not taking a beating, even if he needs to learn a few new reads. 

Yeah, I don't doubt Josh's talent in the slightest. I think he would be successful no matter what. I just don't want us to end up with an OC who "thinks he knows best" all the time. I do think there is actually something to having continuity and these guys, Daboll/Dorsey, have been with him for 4 years now. I'm not saying we would be doomed if they both left, just that I think it could possibly have a negative effect in the short term. Frazier leaving, though I think losing a guy with that kind of knowledge is always tough, wouldn't be as much of an issue because McDermott's background is this defense we run. Losing all three would trickle over into a lot of things. Maybe multiple coaches going with those who left and significant changes going into the 2022 season. 

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think with that kind of talent many excellent coaches will want to be an OC for this team.

Sure, with the talent we have on this team Buffalo is absolutely a premier destination for an OC candidate. You get two established stars in Allen and Diggs, along with some up and coming players like Davis and Knox. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by H2o

[Buffalo03]

Frazier would be insane to go to Jacksonville. Granted, they have the QB but I would want no part of that mess. The Raiders have a lot of Talent but are so inconsistent. 

[london_bills]

11 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Pats had to do this all the time.  If you are a winning team this happens.  I’d rather Daboll go. 

I understand that but it's a lot of change, the QB coach in particular was likely to be the new OC 

[Beast]

Nah.

 

I think there are issues between McDermott and Daboll. I see Daboll going with Frazier and Dorsey taking over as our OC.

 

That is, is Frazier gets a job. 

[Putin]

On 12/31/2021 at 6:29 PM, gonzo1105 said:

If your telling me I can get 2 3rd round picks for Frazier with our needs as Allen’s contract kicks in then sign me up. 

I’m more worried about losing Ken Dorsey 

[Dopey]

On 12/31/2021 at 7:37 PM, aristocrat said:

Good. Easier to find coaches who want to coach top 5 units than find players to fill out top five units. I look forward to the third rounders to add to the talent pool. 

Rex Ryan agrees.

[ctk232]

On 12/31/2021 at 7:38 PM, No Place To Hyde said:

Strongly doubt Frazier would bring along an inexperienced guy to be a 1st time OC. I would figure being a defense minded fella he would want a guy that has play calling experience...of course never know what the behind the scenes dynamic is.

Not that I disagree, but Dorsey is very much a hot commodity for potential OC and eventually HC given his experience and what those around him have spoken to. It’s likely we lose Dorsey before Daboll to either OC or HC down the road, but will be interesting to watch. I would think Dorsey the obligatory promotion should we lose Daboll in the off-season to any opening. 
 

I forget what thread it was on, but it was mentioned awhile back when Nagy was on the hot seat that a potential off-season where we lose Daboll would be an either promotion of Dorsey, bringing in Nagy as QB coach, or vice versa. Both of whom would help sustain Josh’s development and maintain dynamic offenses. On a personal front, I’d love to see what Nagy can do with a QB that has elite ability - same with Dorsey frankly. My hope though is that if we lose either Daboll/Frazier that we retain Dorsey and hopefully Hall on the offensive side of things. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by ctk232

[Locomark]

I could see Frazier going to the Raiders. They have been one of the more progressive teams in hiring men of color in coaching and GM roles. Then if he did go there they need someone to maximize Carr so why wouldn’t he seek out promoting Dorsey? 

[Thriftygamer83]

They ain't going anywhere, they know what it's going to be, ownership is always looking to ax guys, and will be looking at replacing various parts of their personal packages if they don't dumb it down for ownership understandings.  Including players, members of staff, and developmental attaches.  It's a bad fit all the way around and we'll honestly offer more to keep them.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, ctk232 said:

Not that I disagree, but Dorsey is very much a hot commodity for potential OC and eventually HC given his experience and what those around him have spoken to. It’s likely we lose Dorsey before Daboll to either OC or HC down the road, but will be interesting to watch. I would think Dorsey the obligatory promotion should we lose Daboll in the off-season to any opening. 
 

I forget what thread it was on, but it was mentioned awhile back when Nagy was on the hot seat that a potential off-season where we lose Daboll would be an either promotion of Dorsey, bringing in Nagy as QB coach, or vice versa. Both of whom would help sustain Josh’s development and maintain dynamic offenses. On a personal front, I’d love to see what Nagy can do with a QB that has elite ability - same with Dorsey frankly. My hope though is that if we lose either Daboll/Frazier that we retain Dorsey and hopefully Hall on the offensive side of things. 

 

If Dorsey goes before Daboll then Chad Hall becomes the obvious internal promotion when the time comes IMO. There isn't an obvious guy outside the organisation that I am mad keen on tbh.