If the Bills re-sign Edmunds, they're stupid.

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

At this point, he’s not getting a contract unless he wants to take a hometown discount which he won’t and shouldn’t do.  
 

Unless something drastic happens over the next 4 games, I am certain the Bills will treat Edmunds like Shaq Lawson.  Make him prove it on a 5th year deal.  

I think the bills shot themselves in the foot not drafting a LB this year. Not saying we needed to spend a 1 on a LB but now we are in a tough position. Klein has played well but he's not our future. No matter what edmunds will get a good contract, either from us or someone else. We don't have the cap to pay another good but not great player an oversized contract (look at what we paid klein alone). But what do we do now? Do you pay up with little cap we have for a quality FA, when we have huge needs else where? Do we let edmunds walk and put your faith in an unproven rookie? I have a feeling bills make a deal with edmunds.

[HamptonBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

"Resigning" or "Re-signing?" 

There's a big difference there!

 

If we keep him into a new K, he'll cost a fortune, way more than he's worth IMO.

 

 

He may have worn out his welcome with our fan base. Probably best to get a fresh start elsewhere. Rest assured, he'll get a big contract offers from multiple teams.

[HappyDays]

The best way I can describe Edmunds is that he rarely makes truly awful plays, but even more rarely does he make game changing plays. He is a player you can live with on a rookie contract but I don't think he's come anywhere close to earning a big extension.

[Virgil]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

His fifth year option for next year was picked up.  It is for $12.7M and is fully guaranteed.  It would be tough to trade him.  I think he will be here through next season. 

Doesn't mean we can’t trade him or get his replacement 

[John from Riverside]

I think where we really screwed up as when we didn’t take that linebacker that Cleveland did in the second round that was under size and would’ve fit our big nickel roll to a T and is now making huge plays for Cleveland we could easily trade away Edmonds if we had that player now we need to go find somebody like him

[LABILLBACKER]

35 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Doesn't mean we can’t trade him or get his replacement 

I would do everything you can to try and trade him before next year. There's no way he's getting even a marginal extension nor does he deserve it. He's never made even 1 big play in his 4 year career. I'm so over him.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

There has to be a GM who is dumb enough to see his height, age, and “pro bowl” status and make an offer for him 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I would do everything you can to try and trade him before next year. There's no way he's getting even a marginal extension nor does he deserve it. He's never made even 1 big play in his 4 year career. I'm so over him.

He had an interception once

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

There has to be a GM who is dumb enough to see his height, age, and “pro bowl” status and make an offer for him 

I have a feeling we keep him for that final year, but do not re-sign him beyond that.

 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

29 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

There has to be a GM who is dumb enough to see his height, age, and “pro bowl” status and make an offer for him 

There will be and it's going to be up to Beane to find and pitch that GM. The problem is that ridiculous nearly 13M salary for his final year.  And hopefully that GM ignores the fact that the lame pro bowl year was as an alternative.  Wasn't Tyrod an alternative one year and he's on his 5th team. Beane will have his work cut out but it can be done.

[davefan66]

7 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds is playing the way Frazier wants him to play. Frazier has constructed the D to work as an 11 man unit.  Edmunds is not called on to make those impact plays.  He's there to eat up space on pass D, and to fill gaps on running plays.  Those gaps fills are a problem, I'll agree.  He's just not as bad a player as people here think he is.  

He may be playing within the confines of the defense.  
 

It would be nice for him to make tackles when called upon, especially when it can be for a loss.  Or learn how to pass cover, which he can’t.  It would be awesome if he wasn’t always the last man in on a tackle, and too timid to throw his body in the fray.

[vincec]

10 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Edmunds is a solid player. He’s just not a playmaker. 
 

we clearly need more money invested in our O line. I’d choose not to re-sign him unless it’s on the cheap (which he will not do)

They have the fourth most expensive OL in the league according to Spottrac. How about picking better players and getting some decent OL coaching?

Edited December 13, 2021 by vincec

[RichRiderBills]

Bills need to move on. 

[BeastMaster]

Edmunds might be the least instinctive MLB that I've ever seen...yet this is the guy that our coaches choose to captain the defense?

 

Maybe it's because McClappy knows what it's like to constantly make the wrong decisions during the game and not be held accountable. 

[thenorthremembers]

Got killed a month ago when I made the same assertions.  Constantly fooled by the play action.  Constantly out of place in his zone.  Cant get off blocks despite being a behemoth.   

 

Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.  Not sure there is a more annoying player to watch on the Bills.   Also can we please put to rest this idea that the guy is good in coverage.  We play zone, and teams make their money in the middle of the field.  As such, he is not good im coverage.     Needed to be moved to OLB a long time ago.

[uticaclub]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Because he never has and never will. If I hear one more time how athletic he is I'll puke.

Tremaine is an athlete that isn't a good linebacker.

 

Maybe he would perform better in a different defense. Square peg/round hole?

[Gisele]

I'm not reading the entire thread so I apologize if this has been said.  Edmunds sure as hell didn't take away any routes over the middle.  All it takes is the QB to glance one direction and Edmunds is running that way.  Happened all game and happens every week.  The running play in the first quarter where he practically ran past the runner to engage the blocker should have gotten him benched. Any linebacker on the team is better than that (except him, of course).  It's a shame because he'll probably end up being a decent outside linebacker for his next team but our staff insists on putting the square peg in the round hole.  

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

Tremaine is an athlete that isn't a good linebacker.

 

Maybe he would perform better in a different defense. Square peg/round hole?

that was weird....both went with the square peg thing at the same time

[uticaclub]

9 hours ago, Governor said:

I think we need to move on from Edmunds and Milano.

 

This is unpopular but I also think Tre is a bit overrated on this D. He’s a good player but not a great player. 
 

Thats who we should be using as trade bait. I would sell high with Tre.

What?

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, damj said:

Once again... Edmunds is close, but fails. 

 

I'm not talking about the touchdown... I'm talking 3rd and 3, he penetrates and fails to make the tackle. 

 

He is good. But he is not an impact LB. 

 

 

You ought to find a team that agrees with your opinions. You're likely to be able to continue your bellyaching for years and years.

 

After you find a team that agrees to follow, you might want to try to find Pro Bowl voters who agree with you. And pundits. Anyone, really.

 

That's not to say he didn't have a few bad plays tonight, dammit. But the whole defense had a bunch of bad plays, and it's as much that they were up against an extremely good offense as it is that they played badly sometimes. Which they did.

 

He absolutely is an impact LB. Just not the kind you like. Certainly not perfect. Certainly needs work. But nobody's perfect and everybody needs work.

8 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

He may have worn out his welcome with our fan base. Probably best to get a fresh start elsewhere. Rest assured, he'll get a big contract offers from multiple teams.

 

 

Yup, big contract offers, very likely including the Bills.

 

And any GM that makes decisions based on whether some bizarre elements of their fan base are displaying weird opinions should be and likely will be sitting with those fans before long, to paraphrase Marv.

[Blank Stare]

I’ve been pretty patient with Tremaine the last few years for the most part, but that long Fournette TD run where he passed up just making the tackle to engage the blocker was the last straw for me. He had to go past Fournette to engage the blocker. Just make the tackle! Always thought he’d make a better OLB, but they never seemed willing to try that. 

[Gisele]

11 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Completely replacement level player IMO. If he comes cheap, fine. No reason to overpay him. 

Unless he starts showing that speed of his on special teams, he's a wasted roster spot at any price.  A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and he is the weakest link on our defense.  

[dpberr]

He's ok.  I've always thought that being responsible for calling the plays overwhelms him and diverts too much of his focus, and they should give that responsibility to someone else. He was a different player when Lorax was on the job.  

 

If the Bills would re-sign him, that'd be a change I'd make.  Just let him play football, and let the strategy part come from someone else. 

 

 

[pigpen65]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The best way I can describe Edmunds is that he rarely makes truly awful plays, but even more rarely does he make game changing plays. He is a player you can live with on a rookie contract but I don't think he's come anywhere close to earning a big extension.

He makes truly awful plays constantly

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I would do everything you can to try and trade him before next year. There's no way he's getting even a marginal extension nor does he deserve it. He's never made even 1 big play in his 4 year career. I'm so over him.

He’s made 3 or so.  In 4 years. Don’t sell him short

[colin]

i think we still have a schematic/structural issue on our D (O as well, but it's way worse on O and the talent sucks at too many positions).

 

we seem to always defend everything pretty well, instead of dictating what we want to take away.  now, i can understand why that can lead to a great D, it did in carolina for mcclaps.  they problem is a single mistake by one or two players leads to a big play, and the way we are built we get ground up w short passes or runs.

 

if you look at our 3 losses to the really good teams this year, it's all the same

1 Tenn: a plain old run play lead to a couple guys being a beat late or out of position, break away TD.

2 NE: while we got trucked on lots of run plays for like 10-20 yards, we made lots of negative plays too, but the one 3rd and 5 lead to NE's only offensive TD, lost us the game

3 TB: while we stank early on, and did great to come back, that one break away TD run (first score of the game) was the same old crap.  DL gets blocked or out of position, guards get up on the LBs, one or two guys get there late or fill in wrong, and bang, break away Run TD.  as a bonus, we also allowed a break away 3rd and 2 passing TD.  it was a short pass, but the structure is the same as a run, guy gets the ball near the line of scrimmage, edmunds and others make just enough mistakes to not make the tackle, and we let up a giant TD.

 

our style of d, and our specific d, works great when the secondary is erasing windows, the DL is disrupting, and the LBs run free and make plays.  our problem is we aren't getting the turnovers we need to get the d off the field, because we are weak to dink and dunk.  the main structural advantage of the d is stopping the big play, and statistically we are about the best at that, but the opponents know they don't have to take crazy risks, just get the guards up the pitch or hit the right short pass and they will get that long TD they need.

 

given our HC was a DC, our DC was a HC, and we spend more money on the D than anyone else (particularly D line) AND have dumped like all our fricken picks onto the DL in the past 3 years, we can conclude there is a big problem top down on D for us.

 

milano makes mistakes, but he makes them going 1000mph towards something that he thinks is an opportunity.  he also makes big impact plays and erases routes at least some of the time.

 

edmunds erases routes by being big long tall and fast, but he gets moved by the qb or the Pass catcher just way too easily (the one first down by gronk, edmunds was in his hip pocket, and it was an easy set up for gronk to go inside, brady saw it the whole way too) and he is out of position while like floating or thinking, and most of all above everything, he just can't get off of blocks.

 

he does make great plays to the edge in space, frankly that's what has him drafted high and getting paid next season.  for our D tho, the mistakes cost us way more than the bonus plays contribute, because they aren't ints and sacks, but are just really good open field tackles.  great to have those, but if the opponents know they can run their basic bread and butter and beat you via attrition, you are letting them play at a lower level of difficulty, and that alone is the difference between us winning and losing those 3 games against really good competition.

 

we need an upgrade in our front 7, shocking giving what we pay, but ditching a couple old trash DL and signing like one real pass rusher and signing or drafting a real plug in the gut can get us there IMO.  edmunds should not be long term signed, but he should be released only if the cap makes sense and we have an upgrade ready.

[HamptonBillsfan]

24 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You ought to find a team that agrees with your opinions. You're likely to be able to continue your bellyaching for years and years.

 

After you find a team that agrees to follow, you might want to try to find Pro Bowl voters who agree with you. And pundits. Anyone, really.

 

That's not to say he didn't have a few bad plays tonight, dammit. But the whole defense had a bunch of bad plays, and it's as much that they were up against an extremely good offense as it is that they played badly sometimes. Which they did.

 

He absolutely is an impact LB. Just not the kind you like. Certainly not perfect. Certainly needs work. But nobody's perfect and everybody needs work.

 

 

Yup, big contract offers, very likely including the Bills.

 

And any GM that makes decisions based on whether some bizarre elements of their fan base are displaying weird opinions should be and likely will be sitting with those fans before long, to paraphrase Marv.

Well said.

[Coach Tuesday]

I’m still torn.

 

He’s been way better this year.  More instinctive and more physical.

 

He lacks the lower-body leverage and strength you want from a run-stuffer but that’s partially because of his long frame.  As a result he rarely drives his tackle backwards.  He is not a great tackler, just an ok one - there were replacement-level DBs on the Bucs yesterday who tackled better than Edmunds does (and better than Taron or Levi or Addison for that matter).  In fact yesterday got me thinking that good tackling is probably a market inefficiency - the Bills would do well to find good tacklers who may not be the biggest or fastest and pay them in free agency, I bet they’ll be cheaper and the defense will perform better.  But I digress.

 

The issue with Edmunds is that he’s a lot like his brother in Pittsburgh - great athletes, hard-working dudes who had solid upbringings and do everything right except they just lack instincts and as a result they almost never make game-changing plays.  Some athletes just don’t read the action quickly enough for whatever reason.  Folks’ brains are wired in different ways and the Edmunds Brothers may just lack the instincts and processing speeds to ever reach their full athletic potential.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[SoMAn]

I've been saying this for 3 years. He's doesn't have the temperament to be an effective defender. He looks scared to put his shoulder down and attack.

When a ball carrier is being pursued by another defender, instead of running with a full head of steam to assist and maybe jar the ball loose, Edmunds looks like he's taking a Sunday morning jog, often getting there to pile on when the play is all but over.

 

His nick-name should be Johnny-Come-Lately.  Edmunds lacks tenacity.

 

If you want to accurately evaluate his progress over 4 years, simply answer the question of what you believe his trade value be in the pre-draft market.  As a college player with no NFL experience he was the 16th overall pick.  Now, with 4 years in the NFL and at only 23 years old, would any team offer a 1st for Edmunds?

If I'm Beane, I'd jump all over that trade.

Edited December 13, 2021 by SoMAn

[corta765]

12 hours ago, Process said:

He doesn't get sacks

He doesn't tackle for loss

He doesn't get interceptions

He doesn't cause fumbles

He doesn't recover fumbles

He sucks against the run

He sucks against the pass

 

The Bills are playing with 10 defenders

Sorry but this made me think of some humor. If you ever have seen Gone in 60 Seconds (Nic Cage version not original) one of the guys in his crew is a driving instructor and has an dreadful driver. She asks how she did and his response was pretty much this ^:

 

"You can't negotiate turns. You can't signal properly. You can't maintain speed.  You can't parallel park. Sh*t honey you can't drive"

 

That's Tremaine at LB, you can't LB lol

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

Doesn't mean we can’t trade him or get his replacement 

My point is that it’s going to be very difficult to trade him while he is on a fully guaranteed one year $12.7M contract.  We’d have to eat some of that unless we got very lucky.  As for finding his replacement, I’ve been advocating for that for some time now. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I’m still torn.

 

He’s been way better this year.  More instinctive and more physical.

 

He lacks the lower-body leverage and strength you want from a run-stuffer but that’s partially because of his long frame.  As a result he rarely drives his tackle backwards.  He is not a great tackler, just an ok one - there were replacement-level DBs on the Bucs yesterday who tackled better than Edmunds does (and better than Taron or Levi or Addison for that matter).  In fact yesterday got me thinking that good tackling is probably a market inefficiency - the Bills would do well to find good tacklers who may not be the biggest or fastest and pay them in free agency, I bet they’ll be cheaper and the defense will perform better.  But I digress.

 

The issue with Edmunds is that he’s a lot like his brother in Pittsburgh - great athletes, hard-working dudes who had solid upbringings and do everything right except they just lack instincts and as a result they almost never make game-changing plays.  Some athletes just don’t read the action quickly enough for whatever reason.  Folks’ brains are wired in different ways and the Edmunds Brothers may just lack the instincts and processing speeds to ever reach their full athletic potential.

I can see Edmunds being a more productive player in a 3-4 on a team like the Steelers.  As stated, he just doesn't have the instincts or visualization skills to "see" the field to anticipate and read the play.  But if the Bills are playing a 4-3 (or 4-3-5) we need an MLB like CJ Mosley who is a real good player that signed a nice deal with a lousy Jets franchise.  And trade this expensive 8 or 9 man defensive line rotation for a couple top-end players at DE and DT.  Keeping ineffective players fresh isn't a sound approach.  As others have said here there is something lacking in the defensive scheme.  We need a couple impact players added here in the off season (which I don't really want to think about but am already!).   

[LabattBlue]

They will play him again in 2022(what else are they going to do with a 12m dollar cap hit), and then in the offseason, claim he is a great young man and still developing, but we have to sometimes make tough decisions based on the cap, and therefore we will let him explore free agency. 
 

What they are really saying…we gave this guy 5 years to stop making the same mistakes.  He sucks. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by BTB

[Hebert19]

If we do it should be part of a switch to 4-3.  

[FireChans]

23 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I’m still torn.

 

He’s been way better this year.  More instinctive and more physical.

 

He lacks the lower-body leverage and strength you want from a run-stuffer but that’s partially because of his long frame.  As a result he rarely drives his tackle backwards.  He is not a great tackler, just an ok one - there were replacement-level DBs on the Bucs yesterday who tackled better than Edmunds does (and better than Taron or Levi or Addison for that matter).  In fact yesterday got me thinking that good tackling is probably a market inefficiency - the Bills would do well to find good tacklers who may not be the biggest or fastest and pay them in free agency, I bet they’ll be cheaper and the defense will perform better.  But I digress.

 

The issue with Edmunds is that he’s a lot like his brother in Pittsburgh - great athletes, hard-working dudes who had solid upbringings and do everything right except they just lack instincts and as a result they almost never make game-changing plays.  Some athletes just don’t read the action quickly enough for whatever reason.  Folks’ brains are wired in different ways and the Edmunds Brothers may just lack the instincts and processing speeds to ever reach their full athletic potential.

Yes this is why eye test folks think Milano is better. If you just watch the games, you will note that Milano makes 3-4 big plays for every 1 that Tremaine makes. Milano ain’t perfect, but he gets his name called a heck of a lot more than Edmunds. 
 

Some guys just have a nose for the football. Hard to really explain more than that.

[T master]

Well ya'll are right i went & looked at his stats both for college & the NFL & they are very underwhelming for sure definitely not worth his draft status !

 

I was thinking that just maybe he played a different position other than ILB and did better but nope so i am going to have to agree unless they can change him to a different position in the LB's they should look for someone else that makes a bigger impact .

 

I thought i remembered in the preseason Andre Smith playing in the MLB position & it seems as if he was in on every tackle ?

 

Once again maybe they are over looking someone they have on the roster that could give better results but what ever it is they need to address it soon because although they played their ass off yesterday they are still needing to fix some things to get to the dance .

[racketmaster]

The way Beane has been operating lately he will sign Edmunds to a big extension as well as giving Cody Ford a new deal. Not only do you trade up for those guys (passing over other talent and using draft capital) he will waste cap $ keeping them around. 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

I don’t think Edmunds is bad.  I think he is coached bad.

[TwistofFate]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the Bills need to move on  Anyways they cannot pay everyone and they have already paid Milano.

Yeah, and Milano makes plays.  I'm very happy we retained him. 

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I think the bills shot themselves in the foot not drafting a LB this year. Not saying we needed to spend a 1 on a LB but now we are in a tough position. Klein has played well but he's not our future. No matter what edmunds will get a good contract, either from us or someone else. We don't have the cap to pay another good but not great player an oversized contract (look at what we paid klein alone). But what do we do now? Do you pay up with little cap we have for a quality FA, when we have huge needs else where? Do we let edmunds walk and put your faith in an unproven rookie? I have a feeling bills make a deal with edmunds.

They seem to love him…unfortunately I don’t.  With Allen’s contract the cap is going to be tight.  I can’t see how they give him a huge deal

 

The Bills can draft a rookie this year.  Edmunds has a 5th year.   

[BarleyNY]

27 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

I don’t think Edmunds is bad.  I think he is coached bad.

You think he’s coached to leave his assigned gap and to overrun plays?