Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: Tackling-wise, he was Deion Sanders 2.0. I think Sanders avoided tackling way more than Gilmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I wish we could just acknowledge that in their fervor to "right the ship" and with a lame duck GM that he did not trust, McDermott undervalued and let some talented players walk (and passed up some shots in the draft) that would be contributing well to our team. Gilmore would be one. Robert Woods would be another. And in hindsight, we could have managed to keep both of them. I won't argue with Woods, and I'm not entirely sure about Gilmore, but doesn't the article above demonstrate that he wasn't a scheme fit for McD? And while I am sure, had we known then what he would become, we could have adjusted the scheme for him, at the time he it seemed like a risk to shell out for him if he wasn't a good fit. Not to mention, didn't it seem unlikely that he would stay here anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 eh. i'm over it. i'm just concerned whether this team makes the playoffs this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Top corner. Great as a Bill. Don't see how talking about previous regime is news, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: That was one of the plays the fans overreacted on. He was supposed to have over the top support on that play. He turned around not to deflect blame but more to wonder why the defense called wasn't followed and how that happened. 3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yup. It came out clear after the game that it was not his fault. He never would have ran the way he did if he was one on one with Hogan. Sorry, Kelly, but there is no putting a happy face on that sorry display by Gilmore on that play. For crissakes, Hogan wasn’t even in the end zone when Gilmore began pointing fingers. Most knowledgeable fans knew it wasn’t his fault given the coverage they were in. It was obviously a blown coverage by his safety. But you simply can’t start pointing fingers while the play is still in progress. The right thing to do is discuss it on the sidelines afterwards. I don’t care how frustrated a player is, it’s a bad look and reflects poorly on the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Now THAT chaps me. You’re lost...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Another bad personnel decision by McDermott 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: I think Sanders avoided tackling way more than Gilmore. But the technique was very similar when he tried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, K-9 said: Sorry, Kelly, but there is no putting a happy face on that sorry display by Gilmore on that play. For crissakes, Hogan wasn’t even in the end zone when Gilmore began pointing fingers. Most knowledgeable fans knew it wasn’t his fault given the coverage they were in. It was obviously a blown coverage by his safety. But you simply can’t start pointing fingers while the play is still in progress. The right thing to do is discuss it on the sidelines afterwards. I don’t care how frustrated a player is, it’s a bad look and reflects poorly on the player. I will give you that, and that it was a bad look, and there should not be any of that on the field. I was only talking about him being perceived as a lousy or even overrated CB, and that fans use that play as evidence that he wasn't good or that he gave up and could have stopped it. None of that was true. He couldn't have stopped Hogan by that time. Bad look, not bad play or player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Yeah ... In Buffalo he got flagged a lot for holding or pass interference. In New England he plays the same but doesn't get called. If he got traded to Cincinnati or most teams, he'd go back to being a oft flagged CB, he'd become the CB version of Lee Smith, flagged enough to create a yellow clothing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Does Gilmore say anything about seeing the opposition gameplan before the game? Any videos of other team practices? Listening in on opponents headsets? Just curious. Do you need some cheese to go with that whine? I am so sick of listening to cry babies who don’t get their participation trophies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I still think he never wanted to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said: He was. Part of that was because Rex so badly mis-used him. That said, it was pretty clear in his final season here that he knew he was going to be playing elsewhere and was looking for a big payday, so (whether consciously or not) he went out of his way to avoid contact/injury during that final season as a Bill. Rex Ryan badly miss-used almost every defensive player in Buffalo. He had pro bowlers in Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus openly complaining about his scheme. That just goes to show that improper coaching can ruin a player. We also know that the reason Belichick is so darn good is because he is so darn prepared because he watches so much film on every opponent and he takes no team lightly. In regards to Gilmore, some great players can get by without elite coaching and with others it takes them to the top of their game. Lawrence Taylor would have been great despite playing for Rex Ryan as was Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, K-9 said: Sorry, Kelly, but there is no putting a happy face on that sorry display by Gilmore on that play. For crissakes, Hogan wasn’t even in the end zone when Gilmore began pointing fingers. Most knowledgeable fans knew it wasn’t his fault given the coverage they were in. It was obviously a blown coverage by his safety. But you simply can’t start pointing fingers while the play is still in progress. The right thing to do is discuss it on the sidelines afterwards. I don’t care how frustrated a player is, it’s a bad look and reflects poorly on the player. He had similar issues his first year in NE. He looked lost and useless, so BB say him 2 games for a “Hamstring” issue and when he came back he was lights out. I don’t know what they did those two weeks but since then he has gotten better each week. I’m shocked he had do Film study on his own that seems odd.. I mean they do film study as a group (FB etc) at my old HS I’d think Pros would too.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Here we go Yep. He had some injuries he worked through and I do not doubt he was frustrated by some lack of positional coaching. His body language the last few seasons in B-lo said I am done here. I don't have much in the way of sour grapes. They (NE) are a well-coached team with years of consistency as an organization. By comparison the Bills' org was a circus show for decades. Change of scenery was needed and worked for him. Hopefully the Bills will become that stable organization that develops good players who are able to grow and elevate their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, iinii said: Do you need some cheese to go with that whine? I am so sick of listening to cry babies who don’t get their participation trophies. The solution to crybabies...is ALWAYS...to cry about it. That way we have twice as many crybabies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Why is that whenever a player explains why the pats organization is superior to the organization that they came from, the reaction is to kill the messenger? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 what reloevance does this pertain to the Bills ...this was what coaching staff that is not even in the most part in the NFL now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Things are done differently, at every level, in New England than they were done during Gilmore's time in Buffalo? I'm stunned! Let's hope it's a little better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Studies film on a projector!!! No wonder the Bills have been terrible. They’re stuck in 1984. Imagine what Tre could do in New England’s system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Who here honestly believes that Buffalo's coaching staff is on par with NE? Why is anyone offended? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: What does this say about that irresponsible previous regime which drafted him? Or the current regime who let him walk so that they could trade down, pass on two potential All Pro QBs, to draft his replacement? What does it say? It tells me the regime that drafted him recognized the talent, they just had no idea how utilize his strengths because of lack of vision in the coaching and schemes. Current regime? I'm sure they wanted to retain him but the combination of them low balling his worth and his pessimistic attitude towards the organization made it virtually impossible. Let's face it, his final year in Buffalo he played like he didn't want any part of the Bills. He played like a fragile China Doll, afraid to make any type of tackle that might injure him jeopardizing his payday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Who here honestly believes that Buffalo's coaching staff is on par with NE? Why is anyone offended? 20 years ago you won by being good at tackling or running or catching. Now? It's getting away with penalties, stealing signals, intentionally injuring everyone. Why watch it if I know rich bullies are always going to win? In the 90s: league pushed back on the Bills A LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I hated this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 In his last year here, Gilmore's play declined. He was always a good cover guy but he was clearly avoiding contact in order to cash in on his next contract. I don't know if Wrecks had much to do with that. To keep him the Bills would have had to pay a fortune in a guaranteed contract to a guy who wasn't doing as well as possible. There's just no way the Bills would come up with that money. To the list of good CBs we've let go, don't forget Ronald Darby. A very good CB who we didn't get much for, who's doing very well in Philly, under Schwartz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 There's a lot to "unpack" here, but as a curtesy reminder: the New England Patriots of the past 20 years are not just one of the best NFL teams of all time, nor even one of the best SPORTS teams of all times--they are, in many ways, one of the best run companies in the world during that time. They set a goal of excellence and consistently achieve it, they maximize profit, and their investments generally pay off. Some (but only some) of the reason for Buffalo's failures over the past 20 years can be directly attributed to the success of the Patriots. We are in their division, which basically sets us back 2 losses a year. Most teams figure 9-7 gets them a wildcard. For Buf, writing off 2 losses automatically, means they need to go 9-5 the rest of the way. Daunting. Hell, our record in any other division in the AFC this year alone would have us competing for a first round bye... as it is, a wild card is the ceiling. Now, as a fan, that sucks, but as a player... I mean... what do you expect him to say. I've left jobs I've hated for much better jobs--and that was without millions in a raise. So, all in all, good for him, tough to refute what he says, not much to debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: Happy Gilmore When YOU don't live up to expectations Look inward before you look outward Hate to say it SSG, but the Bills coaching staffs have been, well, not so good, sure we’ve had a couple DCs that were above average, but by and large they have been lacking and it was shown to be that way for nearly two decades. I’m hoping this regime will correct that constant sorrow... Go Bills!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This was more fun then expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 hours ago, dave mcbride said: He was actually good in Buffalo. Now, with far better coaching and preparation, he's the best in the league at his craft. Dont foget the Refs getting paid off in NE to not call PI like thry did here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: What does this say about that irresponsible previous regime which drafted him? Or the current regime who let him walk so that they could trade down, pass on two potential All Pro QBs, to draft his replacement? WAIT A SECOND... I could easily make the case that Tre White is as good as Gilmore. They did everything in their power to change the culture, and Gilmore didn't fit in with that, so we have Tre. Also, both of those "All Pro QBs" have put up numbers like Matthew Stafford on other teams, but it doesn't mean that they would do it here with the mess we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Remind me again how I should care about the actions of previous regimes? For same reason coach McDermott does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, dave mcbride said: https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/30/stephon-gilmore-on-why-he-is-best-cornerback-in-nfl He ached to know how they did it. “I know they’ve got a great quarterback, but these other guys are always in position to make plays,” Gilmore recalls thinking. “Five years in Buffalo, you see that and you are like, I don’t know what it is. What are they doing different? Then, to actually get on their side, is totally different.” --- In Buffalo, Gilmore studied film on a projector at home. But the Patriots watch so much footage during the day that often Gilmore has nothing more to see at night. “Sometimes we even watch the same film 10 times in a row, and it’s like, I already watched this,” he says. “But you are not going to forget it in a game.” --- During his five years in Buffalo, Gilmore had three different coaches and four defensive coordinators. When Rex Ryan arrived in 2015, many expected the former Jets coach to use Gilmore the way he had used Revis. But the Bills’ staff relied less on man coverage than coaches had in New York; they kept Gilmore on the right side of the formation rather than let him follow the top receiver. “[The Patriots] demanded more of him,” says Dennis Thurman, Gilmore’s defensive coordinator for his last two seasons in Buffalo. “They needed him to handle the responsibility they placed on him, and in return he is paying them back for believing in him. He had to prove he was worthy of that contract, and now I think he has outperformed it.” Gilmore did become a Revis—just for the world champions. During New England’s Thursday-night game against the Giants, in Week 6, Revis tweeted that Gilmore “by far is the best corner in the game right now.” Entirely different regime now so not relevant to the current Bills. But I think we know now there was much dysfunction here in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, dave mcbride said: He was actually good in Buffalo. Now, with far better coaching and preparation, he's the best in the league at his craft. Did I say he sucked? nope I said he didn’t live up to expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 While every other team in the league keeps trying to acquire talent and waits for that talent to bail them out, the Patriots are busy coaching up what they have knowing that as perennial contenders they will never draft very high. Then when those players outperform and leave for more money the Pats get rewarded with compensatory picks. They have a culture where the only star is Brady and everyone else has humbled himself to his role on the team. You can tell that they have a culture of unselfishness where the rest of the league tries to acquire enough stars for a title run only to blow it up when salary cap hell sets in. Rex Ryan misused Gilmore and Mario Williams just to name a few because his scheme was more important than using players to their best potential. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 If you ignored the logo on the helmet and looked at that offseason without much context or investment.... it was objectively insane. Any single move was generally fine but from the day Rex was fired through to the KB trade was crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Chicken Boo said: Who here honestly believes that Buffalo's coaching staff is on par with NE? Why is anyone offended? No one here should. Our coaching staff is not even close to what they have in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: What does this say about that irresponsible previous regime which drafted him? Or the current regime who let him walk so that they could trade down, pass on two potential All Pro QBs, to draft his replacement? Essentially, he's saying that multiple coaching staffs during his tenure in Buffalo were lax in their preparation and work at developing players in comparison with New England. Does anyone disagree with that? I get the impression that McDermott is far closer to Belichick in his attention to detail than any coach Buffalo has ever had, even Marv Levy. Whether or not he's as thorough as the evil emperor, only a player who has been under both could know. Edited October 31, 2019 by TigerJ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 hours ago, 2003Contenders said: The Bills have a long history of drafting quality CBs -- Winfield, Clements, Gilmore, and now White. They let the first 3 walk before their 2nd contract, let's hope that doesn't happen with Tre. Robert James trumps all listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He didn't want to be in Buffalo and that last year, there is no question that he avoided contact and tackles. I remember one play where he literally jumped away to the side like a bullfighter. So, I wasn't sorry to see him go. Yes the team was a complete dysfunctional mess and maybe it sucked to play for a team or coaches like that, but you're also playing for your teammates, the fans, your family and friends, your own competitiveness, and oh yeah, because they're paying you a lot of money to do so. But he didn't do that his last year in Buffalo. There was a little quit in him. So, in essence, no matter how skilled he was, he was not a culture fit. Didn't have the DNA that McDermott and Beane talk about---self-motivated, team-first football players. Then he goes to a team where he is held accountable, where he doesn't have a disgruntled past with the team, where not even the Hall of Fame quarterback gets a pass. So, you better be playing your best ball. And to his credit, he is. But it was also the right move for the Bills at that time. He is a player that can walk into an established culture and be part of it, but not necessarily one of the guys that you want to build your culture around. Is he one of the best corners in the league now? Yes. Would he have been if he stayed in Buffalo? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 McD wants only physical corners. Gilmore is nothing like that. I don't think we even considered it nor do I think we would even with the benefit of hindsight. Call it marriage to the scheme. We saw that with Rex and others, it's something that always bothered me and why I think NE is the best. BB is one of the few that is married to his players not a scheme and he excels at teaching them how to execute new schemes and game plans to fit exactly what the best mismatches are on a week by week basis. Everybody else looks for players that fit into a box that is part of a bigger box. BB could care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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