Josh Allen in concussion protocol: Update cleared 10/5

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Yes, I'm assuming he was grade 3. No, just because his legs were moving post hit that does not mean wasn't unconscious either prior or during.

 

 

So now we're back to the discussion of whether it's appropriate or smart to play your concussed QB seven days after the incident (regardless of passing tests from NFL paid doctors), and whether there's any additional benefit to waiting until three weeks (i.e. after the bye). I'm suggesting there's likely both a medical benefit, however minor that might be, and developmental benefit by allowing Josh to watch Matt for a week and gain another perspective. Feels like we're going around in circles here.  

 

Regardless of passing the tests......

Then why have the tests then if the results aren't going to matter to you?

[Rocket94]

10 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I don't trust anything a fan of the Mets says....poor judgment ?

Mets fans have a saying, "You gotta believe" (well in something anyway) let you know what that is when we get there!

[london_bills]

19 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I don't know how anyone who watched last Sunday's game did not see that Barkley was in better control of the offense?  You can argue that his arm strength limitation led to the critical short-hop incompletions to Beasley and Zay, but his throws were always to the correct targets, which is not something that you can say about Allen's game at this point.   Allen's best drive occurred when he could still rely on the running game or throw to the underneath RB.   Those plays were gone from Barkley's stints because the RB needed to stay home to block, yet he still found the open receiver.

 

I don't know how much more evidence you need to see that Barkley was in better control of the plays as they were called?

Few years ago Barkley was rumoured to be the No1 pick in the draft, definitely top ten. I think he stayed in college and dropped as a result.

 

Barkley doesn't look as good as Allen and that plays in some.

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's my take on the people who don't want Josh to play even if he clears protocol:

 

You are the same ones who didn't want Josh to start another game last season after Barkley lit up the Jets.

 

Depending on your age either you, your father or your grandfather:

Wanted Frank Reich to continue as the starter after Kelly was deemed healthy enough to play

Wanted Marangi to start over Ferguson (at least until you saw Marangi play himself out of the NFL) 

[WideNine]

19 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I wonder what Antonio Browns neurocognitive  baseline looks like 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I don't think this is a complex situation at all.

 

Allen is the starter, Barkley is the backup. If Allen is cleared, he starts. If not, Barkley the backup is in.

 

Simple.

 

No more "learning from the bench". Allen starts unless McBeane decide he's not the franchise guy in which case he won't see the field again. That decision won't be until the end of next year at the earliest unless he has several Peterman level performances in a row and even then they might ride it out. 

 

Personally I think the best thing for Allen after his horrific first half last week is to get right back in there. It's up to Daboll to develop a game plan that both gives us a chance to win the game and at the same time gets Allen out of the gates hot. To me that means start with short easy throws and running the ball. 3 step drops, slants, swing passes, shallow crosses. Beat it in to Allens head that if his reads aren't there quickly in the progression, chuck it away immediately or run and SLIDE every time. The only deep shots I'd do early are play action passes where if the first read isn't there, dump it quickly to a short relief valve. 

 

Get Allen his confidence early and the longer developing plays will come later.

 

Couldnt agree more

[Dablitzkrieg]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Yankees will win it all this year!

Well, I guess we agree.  I like you ?

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Here's my take on the people who don't want Josh to play even if he clears protocol:

 

You are the same ones who didn't want Josh to start another game last season after Barkley lit up the Jets.

 

Depending on your age either you, your father or your grandfather:

Wanted Frank Reich to continue as the starter after Kelly was deemed healthy enough to play

Wanted Marangi to start over Ferguson (at least until you saw Marangi play himself out of the NFL) 

That pretty much sums up some Bills fans.

 

And how could you not include Rob Johnson, who's first half vs. Tennessee may have been the worst half in history for the Bills & still some people still debate that was the right decision......

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

33 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I don't know how anyone who watched last Sunday's game did not see that Barkley was in better control of the offense?  You can argue that his arm strength limitation led to the critical short-hop incompletions to Beasley and Zay, but his throws were always to the correct targets, which is not something that you can say about Allen's game at this point.   Allen's best drive occurred when he could still rely on the running game or throw to the underneath RB.   Those plays were gone from Barkley's stints because the RB needed to stay home to block, yet he still found the open receiver.

 

I don't know how much more evidence you need to see that Barkley was in better control of the plays as they were called?

 

What good is the right read if you can't get the ball there?

[Big Turk]

On 9/29/2019 at 4:31 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Really good D coming up next week too

Thats what she said ?

[CLTbills]

Riddle me this... and this is directed at those who are well-versed on the concussion protocol rules.

 

But what are the advantages to getting him "out of the protocol" earlier in the week? Here's where I'm going with this......

 

What happens if he fails the final test with the INC? Does he have to kick back to stage 2? Or does he stay in stage 4 and try again tomorrow? If the team doctors feel fairly confident that he's good to go, and it's, say Thursday, why rush the test with the INC? Why not give him the extra day or 2 to ENSURE that he passes that test? Especially if failing the test with the INC on Thursday sets him further back in the timeline of getting back on the field? You also have the (i don't know how much) tactical advantage of "sorry, can't give you media people any updates because he's still in the protocol" whereas if he clears it on Thursday, then the Titans have 2 extra days to prepare solely for one guy versus at least having to split their time preparing for both. 

 

What I'm getting at is they very well may know that he's going to be cleared (the fact that he was performing in individual drills on Tuesday) but are just dragging out that final test until the latest possible moment.

 

Hopefully someone on this board knows more about the protocol and can clear this up.

[VW82]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Regardless of passing the tests......

Then why have the tests then if the results aren't going to matter to you?

 

My personal view is that if you get knocked out or have your bell rung in a car wreck type of hit you shouldn't play the next week (at least). I get that isn't very scientific but the optics of rushing a player through protocol so he can play next game just isn't great, to say nothing of what's best for the player. 

 

To answer your question, the results absolutely matter. I'm not suggesting that the whole process is corrupt -- it's certainly better than it used to be. It's possible that Josh would truly be 100% once he's through protocol. I just don't believe that doctors, even neurologists, know for sure when it comes to head injuries. That opinion is based at least in part from a discussion I had with a local neurologist (former client of mine). 

 

Look, it was a really big hit. I just don't want to see Josh come back too soon, get tagged again, and be out for extended time. I feel like that's a reasonable concern given the way he plays, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that he wouldn't benefit from 3x the recovery length. Anyways, I've said all I can on this subject.  

[YoloinOhio]

Stage 6 of concussion protocol: after being cleared by an independent neurologist, must be cleared by the majority of TBD posters determined via a poll. Sure, the actual medical tests have already been done. But the all important “eye test” remains of fans who watched the broadcast of the hit and have opinions.  I hope mcBeane is aware. Clock is ticking.

Edited October 4, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[nucci]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Stage 6 of concussion protocol: after being cleared by an independent neurologist, must be cleared by the majority of TBD posters determined via a poll. I hope mcBeane is aware. Clock is ticking.

we should hold off and really confuse the Titans

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

we should hold off and really confuse the Titans

Imma go ahead and buy votes in the “Should TBD clear Josh Allen” poll to really throw some irony at them 

Edited October 4, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, jkeerie said:

I would agree with this for the most part.  I think there are some of us who think Allen may sit, but only if the coaching staff is being ultra-conservative for his safety.  I am hoping Allen is 100% healthy and that he plays.  I will, as I have said before, be holding my breath if he should run, that one of Vrabel's (Belichick deciple) defenders doesn't opt for another head shot to knock Allen out of the game again.  

 

Hell, even when he's healthy as a horse I hold my breath every time he runs!

 

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

My personal view is that if you get knocked out or have your bell rung in a car wreck type of hit you shouldn't play the next week (at least). I get that isn't very scientific but the optics of rushing a player through protocol so he can play next game just isn't great, to say nothing of what's best for the player. 

 

To answer your question, the results absolutely matter. I'm not suggesting that the whole process is corrupt -- it's certainly better than it used to be. It's possible that Josh would truly be 100% once he's through protocol. I just don't believe that doctors, even neurologists, know for sure when it comes to head injuries. That opinion is based at least in part from a discussion I had with a local neurologist (former client of mine). 

 

Look, it was a really big hit. I just don't want to see Josh come back too soon, get tagged again, and be out for extended time. I feel like that's a reasonable concern given the way he plays, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that he wouldn't benefit from 3x the recovery length. Anyways, I've said all I can on this subject.  

Tasker said on One Bills Live today...coming from a players perspective...that in the past, they used to rush players back too soon after they were concussed, and he said that if you brought them back too soon you risked them being concussed again.  In other words, the more time that passed the better.  He said that players would appear to be okay, but they weren't right inside (brain).  He then went on to say that today, with the testing done, if the neurologist clears you, then it is safe for the player to play.   

 

So...now the question is...has Josh seen the neurologist  and not passed stage 5, or has he not yet seen the neurologist for that final stage.  I think we all hope for the latter.

[Plano]

That was a weak hit, the defender weighs like 12 pounds and is a loser, Allen will be playing Sunday.

 

Next question

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Hell, even when he's healthy as a horse I hold my breath every time he runs!

 

True that...but now I will not only be holding my breath, but also a Bible.

[Ramza86]

Sit him.

[benderbender]

I’d like them to clear Allen to play and start Barkley anyway. 

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Well, I guess we agree.  I like you ?

 

No.  That was a jinx.

 

GO TWINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Interesting - Jarvis Landry has been in the protocol too since Sunday and wasn’t at practice at all this week. Cleared from protocol today and will be at practice. He doesn’t play until Monday though.

 

There's no value in hiding whether Landry can play or not.  The prep is similar.  In fact if I was the corner assigned to cover him I'm going to be more nervous knowing he is playing!

 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Stage 6 of concussion protocol: after being cleared by an independent neurologist, must be cleared by the majority of TBD posters determined via a poll. Sure, the actual medical tests have already been done. But the all important “eye test” remains of fans who watched the broadcast of the hit and have opinions.  I hope mcBeane is aware. Clock is ticking.

The ‘I’m not a doctor or a neurologist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn’. You get your TBD diploma that way. 

[Real McClappy]

If Allen clears protocol you play him.

 

There is absolutely no other answer. 

[BuffaloBill]

2 minutes ago, benderbender said:

I’d like them to clear Allen to play and start Barkley anyway. 

 

 

Huh??? 

[ddaryl]

 

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Hell, even when he's healthy as a horse I hold my breath every time he runs!

 

 

 

I think it very poor decision making by this team to use him as a runner the way they do. Allowing him to scramble is one thing but the designed run is why he is in concussion protocol and this is why we don't like it.

[Jerome007]

4 minutes ago, benderbender said:

I’d like them to clear Allen to play and start Barkley anyway. 

Indeed. Even if he's cleared, put him as #2. There's the bye week coming up after, and unless Barkley is hurt or really stinks up the place., let Josh heal fully. Let's think long term here.

 

 

Just now, ddaryl said:

I think it very poor decision making by this team to use him as a runner the way they do. Allowing him to scramble is one thing but the designed run is why he is in concussion protocol and this is why we don't like it.

I don't like the designed runs in the middle either. I don't recall calls like that last year? But his TD run sweep was good, and if IIRC, he was hurt scrambling on his own, not a designed run?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Stage 6 of concussion protocol: after being cleared by an independent neurologist, must be cleared by the majority of TBD posters determined via a poll. Sure, the actual medical tests have already been done. But the all important “eye test” remains of fans who watched the broadcast of the hit and have opinions.  I hope mcBeane is aware. Clock is ticking.

 

In stage seven Josh will be able to time travel like in that move Lucy. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Ta111]

2 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Indeed. Even if he's cleared, put him as #2. There's the bye week coming up after, and unless Barkley is hurt or really stinks up the place., let Josh heal fully. Let's think long term here.

 

 

I don't like the designed runs in the middle either. I don't recall calls like that last year? But his TD run sweep was good, and if IIRC, he was hurt scrambling on his own, not a designed run?

This is a bizarre take. You play your best otherwise healthy players, period. If he’s cleared as healthy he plays. Same for Singletary or anyone else.

[GG]

31 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

What good is the right read if you can't get the ball there?

 

That 4th Q situation is precisely where you don't want Barkley in the game, because that's where the vast majority of his mistakes come (ignoring of course hitting Zay in the hands for a TD)

 

The point, again is that there's a good probability the Bills' offense operates better in the first 3 Qs under him, that there's no need for hero-ball in 4Q.

[ddaryl]

4 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

I don't like the designed runs in the middle either. I don't recall calls like that last year? But his TD run sweep was good, and if IIRC, he was hurt scrambling on his own, not a designed run?

 

 

I agree there is a time to use it but they are over using it, and the concussion is the result.

[nucci]

13 minutes ago, benderbender said:

I’d like them to clear Allen to play and start Barkley anyway. 

why?

8 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Indeed. Even if he's cleared, put him as #2. There's the bye week coming up after, and unless Barkley is hurt or really stinks up the place., let Josh heal fully. Let's think long term here.

 

 

 

if Barkley stinks up the place, we lose and miss the playoffs by one game.....

[RiotAct]

18 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Hell, even when he's healthy as a horse I hold my breath every time he runs!

 

yep, for reasons evidenced by the hit that put him into the protocol in the first place.

[reddogblitz]

3 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

 

I think it very poor decision making by this team to use him as a runner the way they do. Allowing him to scramble is one thing but the designed run is why he is in concussion protocol and this is why we don't like it.

 

Especially if he's your "franchise QB" (whatever that is) you don't want to risk injury for him and have to depend on Barkley like we did Sunday.  A lot of QBs come into the league thinking they are going to revolutionize the QB position by running AND passing.  Roger Staubach, Donovan McNabb, and Randall Cunningham immediately come to mind.  After getting creamed a few times they re think that and become pocket passers and have greater success.

 

I hope Josh follows this path and we see him run leas and pass better.  But I agree. The designed runs to our franchise is our running around getting hit by big guys trying to put him out of the game. He's already been injured twice running the football.

 

I can only think of one who said screw it I'm gonna run anyway nd that was Michael Vick.

8 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That 4th Q situation is precisely where you don't want Barkley in the game, because that's where the vast majority of his mistakes come (ignoring of course hitting Zay in the hands for a TD)

 

The point, again is that there's a good probability the Bills' offense operates better in the first 3 Qs under him, that there's no need for hero-ball in 4Q.

 

The Cheats** were also blitzing the pants off of him.  That didn't help.

[Richard Noggin]

19 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

True that...but now I will not only be holding my breath, but also a Bible.

Smart: thick book like that can protect against impact. 

 

'bout all it's good for AM I RIGHT!?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Does anyone with some knowledge of this have any idea what kind of tests are performed to clear protocol?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

I don't know how anyone who watched last Sunday's game did not see that Barkley was in better control of the offense?  You can argue that his arm strength limitation led to the critical short-hop incompletions to Beasley and Zay, but his throws were always to the correct targets, which is not something that you can say about Allen's game at this point.   Allen's best drive occurred when he could still rely on the running game or throw to the underneath RB.   Those plays were gone from Barkley's stints because the RB needed to stay home to block, yet he still found the open receiver.

 

I don't know how much more evidence you need to see that Barkley was in better control of the plays as they were called?

 

I would counter and say that I dont know how anyone watched last Sundays game and did not see how the offense was playing better overall in the 2nd half when Daboll finally pulled his head out of his a**.  Daboll was terrible in the first half.

 

Lets not forget, once Daboll FINALLY started getting Yeldon and Knox involved in the passing game, we drove the field with Allen and put up the only TD on the Pats this year.  Lets not forget, we were driving again when Allen was knocked out of the game.  Lets not forget Barkley failed on 3 critical passes that all could have helped us win the game because he made very poor throws.  

 

Bottom line...I really like Barkely as our backup, he is certainly capable IMO.  But nothing I have seen from him makes me believe he gives us the better chance to win on any given Sunday.  Complicating it further is we have a dinged up OL that is already been inconsistent as they all try and learn to play together (and to be expected really with 4 new starters including a rookie).  Allen's ability to extend plays and escape pressure has been substantially impactful in all of our games this year.  

[Albany,n.y.]

Still in protocol but full practice today.  

[H2o]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

The Cheats** were also blitzing the pants off of him.  That didn't help.

And I think this will be the mold other teams follow until Josh is hitting his hot reads and burning them for it. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by H2o