Johnnycage46 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, nucci said: right but nothing so dramatic where it changes the entire game plan. The Bills are still going to run the same offense Yeah I get ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: How do we know he's been tested today? I wonder myself how often he is tested. I bet it is at least once a day, but I wonder if it is multiple times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: The report this morning was he was the first quarterback taking snaps and going through plays as Barkley stood with hands in pockets. Real snaps or Sears poncho snaps? The media get booted after warm ups, so what they 'see' is only of the optics the Bills want to show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: The report this morning was he was the first quarterback taking snaps and going through plays as Barkley stood with hands in pockets. And when they do teamwork nobody is there to see and report. So Josh could be participating in teamwork. QB's always have the red non-contact jersey anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, MJS said: I wonder myself how often he is tested. I bet it is at least once a day, but I wonder if it is multiple times a day. Or is the team testing him and waiting to have the independent neuro check him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, Deep2Moulds46 said: In my opinion the Bills absolutely know who their starting QB is going to be on Sunday. No matter what the scenario, it makes sense to keep him in the protocol. Allen and Barkley couldn't be more opposite in terms of how they play, so why not keep Tennessee guessing. I wouldn't expect to know for sure until Saturday at 4PM. If Webb hasn't been promoted from the PS, then Allen is fine. However, I would even say there's a chance that if the Bills plan to play Allen Sunday, they still promote Webb on Saturday. Why not keep the Titans guessing? it would probably be tricky to determine who to send down, but I think this could be a spot where you see one of our 10 OL go bye bye. My thoughts, too. McDermott making them waste time by prepping for two different QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, USCGBILLSFAN said: Thank you for the information, i was frustrated and it bothers me when people like that offer nothing to the discussion, win lose or draw its about fun, but NE fans will be NE fans and sometimes they just dig under my skin. Mods don't see every post on every thread, even a thread we're actively posting in believe it or not, so if we miss something, helps to report it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Lurker said: Real snaps or Sears poncho snaps? The media get booted after warm ups, so what they 'see' is only of the optics the Bills want to show... The answer to your crusade about Josh not playing will be answered soon enough. Get some Franks Hot Sauce for your crow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The report this morning was he was the first quarterback taking snaps and going through plays as Barkley stood with hands in pockets. Well, yeah, but it was raining and the QB needs to keep his hands warm and dry, so that might not be as "bystander-ish" as it seems to imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: Real snaps or Sears poncho snaps? The media get booted after warm ups, so what they 'see' is only of the optics the Bills want to show... Ginger snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The report this morning was he was the first quarterback taking snaps and going through plays as Barkley stood with hands in pockets. To be clear, that was still in drills, not going through the actual game plan practice. The media is not allowed to observe that part, for obvious reasons. Edited October 3, 2019 by jkeerie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: The answer to your crusade about Josh not playing will be answered soon enough. Get some Franks Hot Sauce for your crow! It's not a crusade, it's an opinion. I'll gladly say I was wrong if that is indeed the case. But I wouldn't expect a flamethrower like you to get that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Can anyone confirm if the decision on in or out of protocol is the team, the league, or independent? I thought it was independent neurologist e v a l and based on symptoms and cognitive tests compared to baseline Josh needs to be cleared by an independent neurologist. It is not a team decision...to protect the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lurker said: The timing's a little different timing on Flacco. If he got cleared the following Wednesday, it means he got to go through both days of game plan installation. We don't know for sure if that has been the case with Josh, however. Only that he tossed the ball and jumped around a lot... Right and we knew as much about Joe as we know about Josh at this point. They both have gone through practices being in concussion protocol. At the time we had no idea if Joe was involved in the game installation or not. Same rules apply to Baltimore media members and watching installation. They didn’t know. And then he was cleared. The only real difference is Baltimore was very open and confident about Joe playing. McD is playing it smarter and not saying a word either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPJax Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Not sure why you would say that definitively. We do not know if he took the final tests yet, plus the real worry is that he regressed from yesterday, and that does not at all appear to be the case as he is practicing. Plus he took all the first team reps in the first walk through this morning. I think you are right on it Kelly, he did take all the snaps and the PROTOCOL by definition means he has to have done or survived a normal practice ( which is everything but contact I would think for a QB, for a non QB contact would be the last step of the protocol ) and then NOT HAVE any recurrent symptoms tomorrow. I think by definition if wed was stage 4 , todays practice would be stage 5 . I believe by definition he has to take the computerized IMPACT testing tomorrow to be sure his reaction times , memory , impulse control , etc all have returned to baseline and remain at his baseline 24 hours after last full practice to fulfill the final step of the protocol. So I think by definition he could really only FULLY clear the protocol by as early as tomorrow so today’s announcement I believe still fits with normal progression and no one can say he definitely out yet. Initially this protocol was set up to be a minimum of 24 hours per stage , however that has been modified for adults allowing faster progression. I think he is following an early course and I bet he will clear it tomorrow only based on the fact that he got all the reps and the focus wasn’t on getting Barkley ready. I don’t believe they have Barkley Standing around like has been reported , without activating the other QB additionally, unless they are almost certain that Josh will be cleared. If for some reason he is not cleared by tomorrow, I don’t see how they could avoid letting Barkley get the lions share of reps. To me tomorrow is the telltale day. if I may, for all those guys ( not you Kelly ) posting that he probably wasn’t concussed or “ was barely “ concussed , you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter how he looks to untrained people on a video. The computerized testing picks up on memory and coordination and reaction times and then compares them to HIS baseline normals. He would not be in the protocol if he had all normal tests to begin with; there is no debate he had a concussion. This as stated is taken control of by outside independent neurologists so there is no way the team puts him in it ( esp since they have no control over the situation once he is in it ) to just protect him or to be cautious etc. By definition the whole process/ protocol is out of team control. To say he was “ never really concussed “, or this was for “ optics “ is laughable and shows how little some people still misunderstand concussions and why independent people are needed to protect the safety of players. How would you like someone with that type of understanding making a decision about the future brain health of your son or fiancé if you are in Allen’s camp ? Thank goodness we are beyond that. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, yeah, but it was raining and the QB needs to keep his hands warm and dry, so that might not be as "bystander-ish" as it seems to imply. The bystanderish element is standing by when someone else is actively taking snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Wayne Cubed said: At the time we had no idea if Joe was involved in the game installation or not. Wednesday and Thursday are installation days. If Joe was cleared on a Wednesday, he didn't miss the installation practices. The BIG question we have is, did Josh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: The bystanderish element is standing by when someone else is actively taking snaps. Well, yeah, but that's how they do positional drills. They alternate QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, nucci said: Of course the Bills know who is starting but I think the advantage for us vs Titans not knowing is overrated. Regardless of how different they, the offense will still be the same I would disagree with that. The plays may be the same, but the Qbs have tendencies. With Allen, specifically, you would need your DLineman to be more aware of rushing lanes and bailout points on the edges, where with Barkley you could just have them rush. Barkley gets rid of the ball quicker. Allen can turn any play into a schoolyard freelance. Allen forces defenders to defend things that most Qbs don't. So keeping this under wraps is smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, hemma said: My thoughts, too. McDermott making them waste time by prepping for two different QBs. The Titans look at film of the Bills offense...how they line up...what plays they run from what formations....do you really think this gives the Bills a huge advantage? You either run the ball or throw....how difficult is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, jkeerie said: To be clear, that was still in drills, not going through the actual game plan practice. The media is not allowed to observe that part, for obvious reasons. That is true, and thanks for the clarification. Although, for example, the defense in the drill didn't have enough DBs in there and while about to snap, Josh was making sure they had enough, which indicates they were trying to run plays. Plus the relevant point is they lined up with the first offense receivers and Josh was out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: The answer to your crusade about Josh not playing will be answered soon enough. Get some Franks Hot Sauce for your crow! In truth you have an equal crusade for Josh to play. Let's face it. We ALL (with the exception of the Josh haters) want Josh to be cleared and ready to play, and to start on Sunday. As fans, wishing doesn't make it so. None of us, has a clue right now what will happen. We're all trying to read the same tea leaves...and there is very limited information right now. It's not a matter of anybody being right. It's a matter of what is best for Josh and ultimately the team and that is in the hands of the neurologist and the coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Deep2Moulds46 said: I would disagree with that. The plays may be the same, but the Qbs have tendencies. With Allen, specifically, you would need your DLineman to be more aware of rushing lanes and bailout points on the edges, where with Barkley you could just have them rush. Barkley gets rid of the ball quicker. Allen can turn any play into a schoolyard freelance. Allen forces defenders to defend things that most Qbs don't. So keeping this under wraps is smart. then we should do this every week. You just mentioned each QB tendencies....you don't think Titans know this Edited October 3, 2019 by nucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: Wednesday and Thursday are installation days. If Joe was cleared on a Wednesday, he didn't miss the installation practices. The BIG question we have is, did Josh... He was cleared after practice... so again he went through an installation day and no one knew, not even the coaches. Also, you are assuming a Thursday night game and a Sunday game have the same installation practice schedule. edit: and McD doesn’t have to announce if he’s cleared protocol until the final injury report... so we won’t know until after Fridays practice. Edited October 3, 2019 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, nucci said: The Titans look at film of the Bills offense...how they line up...what plays they run from what formations....do you really think this gives the Bills a huge advantage? You either run the ball or throw....how difficult is this? When you have 2 Qbs who play completely different, then it makes a big difference. QB tendencies. Qb target preferences. Josh Allen's running ability. His tendencies to bait pass rushers in and then run around them to get out of the pocket. These are all things that if you don't prepare for, he will make you look silly. And if you do prepare for (and he doesn't play) then you spent time preparing for something that was irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, DrPJax said: I think you are right on it Kelly, he did take all the snaps and the PROTOCOL by definition means he has to have done or survived a normal practice ( which is everything but contact I would think for a QB, for a non QB contact would be the last step of the protocol ) and then NOT HAVE any recurrent symptoms tomorrow. I think by definition if wed was stage 4 , todays practice would be stage 5 . I believe by definition he has to take the computerized IMPACT testing tomorrow to be sure his reaction times , memory , impulse control , etc all have returned to baseline and remain at his baseline 24 hours after last full practice to fulfill the final step of the protocol. So I think by definition he could really only FULLY clear the protocol by as early as tomorrow so today’s announcement I believe still fits with normal progression and no one can say he definitely out yet. Initially this protocol was set up to be a minimum of 24 hours per stage , however that has been modified for adults allowing faster progression. I think he is following an early course and I bet he will clear it tomorrow only based on the fact that he got all the reps and the focus wasn’t on getting Barkley ready. I don’t believe they have Barkley Standing around like has been reported , without activating the other QB additionally, unless they are almost certain that Josh will be cleared. If for some reason he is not cleared by tomorrow, I don’t see how they could avoid letting Barkley get the lions share of reps. To me tomorrow is the telltale day. if I may, for all those guys ( not you Kelly ) posting that he probably wasn’t concussed or “ was barely “ concussed , you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter how he looks to untrained people on a video. The computerized testing picks up on memory and coordination and reaction times and then compares them to HIS baseline normals. He would not be in the protocol if he had all normal tests to begin with; there is no debate he had a concussion. This as stated is taken control of by outside independent neurologists so there is no way the team puts him in it ( esp since they have no control over the situation once he is in it ) to just protect him or to be cautious etc. By definition the whole process/ protocol is out of team control. To say he was “ never really concussed “, or this was for “ optics “ is laughable and shows how little some people still misunderstand concussions and why independent people are needed to protect the safety of players. How would you like someone with that type of understanding making a decision about the future brain health of your son or fiancé if you are in Allen’s camp ? Thank goodness we are beyond that. First of all thank you for your input on the "optics" "never concussed" theories! I had forgotten that concussion assessment and clearing the protocol are under control of independent neurologists not team doctors. Good reminder (or education) As for Barkley standing around, keep in mind that reporters are only allowed in the initial portion of practice. So the team can create whatever optics they like during walkthroughs and drills, and no one knows who got the lion's share of reps during the team portion of practice because they kick the reporters out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, yeah, but that's how they do positional drills. They alternate QB's. Well, yeah, but usually with the starter starting, during the season. The number two in fact gets surprisingly little work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, nucci said: then we should do this every week. You just mentioned each QB tendencies....you don't think Titans know this You can't do this every week. You have to make your starting QB available to the media. Teams also don't like to have QB controversies, and that's what you would be inviting if you played yo-yo from game to game. this is a rare instance where there's a concussion protocol that allows the Bills to play this extra close to the vest. it's not reasonable to do this every week, because teams would call BS if the Bills were like "We don't know who we are going to start, even though both guys are healthy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: That is true, and thanks for the clarification. Although, for example, the defense in the drill didn't have enough DBs in there and while about to snap, Josh was making sure they had enough, which indicates they were trying to run plays. Plus the relevant point is they lined up with the first offense receivers and Josh was out there. Yes...and you are correct that Josh is taking first snaps in the drills. Apparently, drills do involve running plays which would make sense when you think about it, especially for oline and dline. When I think of drills, I think of them just tossing the ball around, but there is more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Deep2Moulds46 said: When you have 2 Qbs who play completely different, then it makes a big difference. QB tendencies. Qb target preferences. Josh Allen's running ability. His tendencies to bait pass rushers in and then run around them to get out of the pocket. These are all things that if you don't prepare for, he will make you look silly. And if you do prepare for (and he doesn't play) then you spent time preparing for something that was irrelevant. Then we should never name the starter until Saturday night every week...keep teams guessing 1 minute ago, Deep2Moulds46 said: You can't do this every week. You have to make your starting QB available to the media. Teams also don't like to have QB controversies, and that's what you would be inviting if you played yo-yo from game to game. this is a rare instance where there's a concussion protocol that allows the Bills to play this extra close to the vest. it's not reasonable to do this every week, because teams would call BS if the Bills were like "We don't know who we are going to start, even though both guys are healthy!" I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, nucci said: I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense Not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, CaptnCoke11 said: Not even close so we are going to run a completely different offense? When Barkley practices during the week, Bills change all the calls and plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, nucci said: I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense I mean all you have to do is look how the Patriots played Allen vs Barkley... Which they played them differently defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Not even close It’s the same offense. The game plan will change, but no one is installing a new offense for a backup QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Wayne Cubed said: I mean all you have to do is look how the Patriots played Allen vs Barkley... Which they played them differently defensively. ok but was it difficult for them to do this? They didn't prepare for Barkley yet still had success against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, nucci said: Then we should never name the starter until Saturday night every week...keep teams guessing I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense *sigh* I'll try one more time and then I give up. 1) You can't do this every week. Teams need a reason to think there is an actual reason the backup will play. At full health, there's no reason to do that. Allen being in concussion protocol gives the Bills a rare instance where they can keep their cards close to the vest, either way. If you just arbitrarily say "We aren't naming a QB until Saturday" nobody will believe you. Or....if they do...you have just created an unnecessary Qb controversy. It's not realistic. 2) I'm sorry you don't see it as an advantage. But player tendencies, especially at a QB positon...ESPECIALLY when you have someone like Josh Allen who is so reliant on mobility....creates unique defensive gameplans. If you call a play where Beasley runs a slant, John Brown Runs a post and Zay Jones runs an out........yes, those routes will be the same no matter who the QB is. But Barkley might get rid of the ball quicker than Allen. Allen might only read half field while Barkley reads full? Barkley might get through his progressions faster where Allen (who ran for 100 yards in multiple games last year) could bail out and run. Defenses spend all week gameplanning, and a large portion of that is tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 In truth...if Josh plays...I'm going to be holding my breath if he does take off and run. Vrabel uses the same "playbook" on defense as Belichick. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to knock Josh out again, especially since there were no consequences to the defensive player last Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, nucci said: ok but was it difficult for them to do this? They didn't prepare for Barkley yet still had success against him But you are talking about BB tho, one of the greatest defensive minds and literally the best in game adjuster to coach the game.. You can’t assume other coaches would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Davis Webb call-up to come? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Logic said: Davis Webb call-up to come? I’m guessing The Duke because they are not happy with Zay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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