Ryan Bates traded

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

?

 

Who is Bates supposed to be playing over? He's just a good backup. I would have liked him as a baseline replacement for Morse but you don't turn down a 5th round pick for that caliber of player.

I am always about building the offensive line and I would have all things being equal kept Bates for depth. Bates versatility is what makes him so valuable to me. I would rather have Bates as the 6th oline player than a 5th round pick.

 

BUT I have to think that this is a move that was likely put into place last season. I think the Bills front office and coaches probably told Bates when he got displaced by Torrence that after this season if he accepted the benching and acted professionally the Bills would trade him to a place where he could get a chance to start.

 

So from that standpoint I get the move if that’s the case. The return is fair and I can see a team jumping on exchanging an expensive back up for a mid round pick

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Doesn’t it clear 5.4 mil from next year’s cap? 

 

Technically. But he was never going to see that $5.4M next year. We were almost certainly going to cut him and take $2.5M in dead cap, so I'm looking at it as we save $1.4M in 2024 and $2.5M in 2025 by trading him now.

[Warcodered]

I liked Bates but this makes way too much sense when I think about it, there's a guy competing with him pretty close to his spot that's younger that could develop that costs less. We've got the two starting guards figured out finally, so getting a pick and cutting cap, love the guy but it is what it is.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

BUT I have to think that this is a move that was likely put into place last season. I think the Bills front office and coaches probably told Bates when he got displaced by Torrence that after this season if he accepted the benching and acted professionally the Bills would trade him to a place where he could get a chance to start.

 

See I don't think Beane made this trade happen. Like he wasn't shopping Bates. I think Ryan Poles initiated the whole thing. They say every player could be moved for the right price. For a backup offensive lineman that's already reached his ceiling it would be stupid to turn down a top 150 pick.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Ah yes, the “I enjoyed getting to know him!”😂. Is he supposed to say he’s still enjoying his company and looking forward to getting to know him better?!  Ridiculous take, imho.  
 

It’s not like BBB to give up a 3rd for a rental.  And who says he needs to be extended?  He’s under contract.

Also, this tidbit from someone who is actually closer to their thinking: “Currently, the only thing guaranteed is Douglas on the team for 2024.”  Take a read of Buscaglia’s measured and reasoned CB review.  This seems more likely: “The Bills would be best served to let the year play out and see how Douglas performs, Benford’s progress and how well White bounces back from injury before issuing any guaranteed new money to the cornerback position.”

 

He's 9m on the books if he isn't extended. Tre is 16.4. Even with a restructure of Tre, that's a LOT of money to be paying for CB. Doubly so when you have a VERY good ascending CB who's development is paramount (as he is the present and the future at CB) in Benford that you also want to keep on the field. It's not possible to start all 3.

 

I'm not even taking into account the 1st Rounder we hope will turn things around after he is fully healthy and the firing of the DB's coach that butted heads with him. Or the situation we're in capwise v. The holes we have to replace. We can lose one of White or Douglas and still be good at CB. Meanwhile, we need starters at WR, DE, DT (of which we have a grand total of 1 on the roster), and S (probably both).

 

You're entitled to your opinion. But my opinion has always been that it would be Douglas and Benford with Elam as the first man up on the  Outside with Johnson as the Nickel or White/Benford/Johnson/Elam as our top 4 guys. 

 

And in watching and listening to Beane talk, it's my belief that Douglas. You can disagree, but to me it's fairly obvious something has to give at CB for the sake of the rest of the roster.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

See I don't think Beane made this trade happen. Like he wasn't shopping Bates. I think Ryan Poles initiated the whole thing. They say every player could be moved for the right price. For a backup offensive lineman that's already reached his ceiling it would be stupid to turn down a top 150 pick.

Very possible but given the lack of talent at offensive line in the league it is always a struggle for me to want to give up offensive line depth esp a versatile player like Bates for a mid round pick.

 

I think it’s likely the Bills assured Bates that after the season they would trade him and Chicago came coming. But it is possible that it happened the other way around.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Good move. 

Like the player but can't afford $5M for a back up who played 35 snaps all year. He wasn't even the third TE in heavy sets. Edwards played that role.

I like Morse coming back for one more year. He's not great but he is good enough. An extra pick gives Beane some flexibility early on day 3. Good spot to grab an extra OL, S, and DT. Maybe burn some of these late round picks for a guy that fell past round 3. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Who could be next?

 

Douglas? Hamlin? Siran Neal?

 

🤐 Diggs? Knox? 
 

Poyer?

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

20 pages by midnight 

 

9 anyway.  

😁

2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Why?  He's a backup

 

Let's hope that our OL is injury free again.  It'd be a miracle if that happened.  

 

At some point shorting Allen on OL and WRs is going to be a bad look.  

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

If Beane moves Douglas and a late pick to get a 3rd let’s say….

 

that would signal to me we intend to move up in Round 1

 

28 + a 3rd + a 5th  can get you to pick 21-2

(I don’t want to trade Rasul, but I think he’s one of the most likely Bills to be moved)

 

Edited March 5 by Warriorspikes51

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Accumulate capital so they can move up if needed. Not the biggest fan of the trade, but I can definitely make sense of it. 

[HurlyBurly51]

12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's 9m on the books if he isn't extended. Tre is 16.4. Even with a restructure of Tre, that's a LOT of money to be paying for CB. Doubly so when you have a VERY good ascending CB who's development is paramount (as he is the present and the future at CB) in Benford that you also want to keep on the field. It's not possible to start all 3.

 

I'm not even taking into account the 1st Rounder we hope will turn things around after he is fully healthy and the firing of the DB's coach that butted heads with him. Or the situation we're in capwise v. The holes we have to replace. We can lose one of White or Douglas and still be good at CB. Meanwhile, we need starters at WR, DE, DT (of which we have a grand total of 1 on the roster), and S (probably both).

 

You're entitled to your opinion. But my opinion has always been that it would be Douglas and Benford with Elam as the first man up on the  Outside with Johnson as the Nickel or White/Benford/Johnson/Elam as our top 4 guys. 

 

And in watching and listening to Beane talk, it's my belief that Douglas. You can disagree, but to me it's fairly obvious something has to give at CB for the sake of the rest of the roster.

Yep, we're gonna have different opinions on this.  Beane spent literally 15 seconds on the Rasul question.  Read the Buscaglia article - there is a path for all of them to be here next year.

[Special K]

27 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's 9m on the books if he isn't extended. Tre is 16.4. Even with a restructure of Tre, that's a LOT of money to be paying for CB. Doubly so when you have a VERY good ascending CB who's development is paramount (as he is the present and the future at CB) in Benford that you also want to keep on the field. It's not possible to start all 3.

 

I'm not even taking into account the 1st Rounder we hope will turn things around after he is fully healthy and the firing of the DB's coach that butted heads with him. Or the situation we're in capwise v. The holes we have to replace. We can lose one of White or Douglas and still be good at CB. Meanwhile, we need starters at WR, DE, DT (of which we have a grand total of 1 on the roster), and S (probably both).

 

You're entitled to your opinion. But my opinion has always been that it would be Douglas and Benford with Elam as the first man up on the  Outside with Johnson as the Nickel or White/Benford/Johnson/Elam as our top 4 guys. 

 

And in watching and listening to Beane talk, it's my belief that Douglas. You can disagree, but to me it's fairly obvious something has to give at CB for the sake of the rest of the roster.

 

I'd like to see a move to Safety for Douglas......I think he would be excellent at the position, and it would remove one of the holes the Bills would have to fill on D.

[BillsFanForever19]

28 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Who could be next?

 

Douglas? Hamlin? Siran Neal?

 

🤐 Diggs? Knox? 
 

Poyer?

 

Hamlin or Neal would yield us nothing.

 

Diggs isn't going anywhere. Every idea you've come up with as to why it may happen has been refuted by both Diggs and Beane publicly. And that doesn't even take simple logic into the equation.

 

No one would take on Knox's contract for what he provides - let alone give us compensation to do so. He'll be cut after this year.

 

Poyer is another that no one is going to take on his contract and give us something for. He'll be cut or he'll be here.

 

Douglas *might* get us something in return. But we may end up just having to cut him, if we were to choose to move on.

 

Honestly, looking at the roster right now, I don't really see anyone else that we could get something for that we'd want to move on from.

 

6 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I'd like to see a move to Safety for Douglas......I think he would be excellent at the position, and it would remove one of the holes the Bills would have to fill on D.

 

I don't see it. We'd sooner get out from under his deal and use that 9m to get *actual* Safeties. And more because Safeties are cheap AF.

 

I don't think Douglas would be interested either. His agent definitely wouldn't be. He's either going to be a Starting CB here being paid Starting CB money or he's going to get it elsewhere next year.

Edited March 5 by BillsFanForever19

[Logic]

3 hours ago, uticaclub said:

He's worth more than a 5th

Really?

A 5th round pick for a career backup offensive lineman who wasn't gonna be starting in Buffalo for the foreseeable future seems like a great return to me. 
 

[ALLinALLEN]

11 picks now. Good move. Don’t care so much about the cap “relief” this year, but next year I saw opens up ~$5mil? This board has a ton of love for a backup 27 yr old OL. Get younger in the draft. Hope that means we move some picks around but honestly with the youth movement we’re about to see I don’t hate keeping them all. 

[Logic]

I think the Bills really like Alec Anderson.

The fact that they kept him on the 53 all last year but never made him active tells me that they knew he wouldn't have made it through waivers to the practice squad, and they liked him enough that they weren't willing to take the risk.

I thought he played quite well in the preseason, and I can see why they like him.

It won't surprise me in the least if they view him as "the new Ryan Bates", or even as someone who could step in at center in 2025.

[John from Riverside]

46 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

If Beane moves Douglas and a late pick to get a 3rd let’s say….

 

that would signal to me we intend to move up in Round 1

 

28 + a 3rd + a 5th  can get you to pick 21-2

(I don’t want to trade Rasul, but I think he’s one of the most likely Bills to be moved)

 

No, he’s not
Probably the most likely to have his contract restructured

[Freddie's Dead]

Makes sense from a cap perspective.  Farewell Rick Bates, and we thank you.

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Well he’s a starter now. They really wanted him.

So bad they gave a 5th for him...

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Maybe they like Alec Anderson in that spot?

 

Saves some cap and gets us a pick back. 

Or re sign Edwards for cheap and get rid of Bates contract, which is fair but not ideal for a non starter. 

I bet we get our next Gabe/Shakir weapon as our 2nd WR drafted with that or both 5s in a move up

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Stuck with Morse now. He can't move a DT an inch and his head is a concussion waiting to happen. Crap.

not bad for a guy who didn't miss a snap on the best ol we had in a while and get a high 5th n save cap space for a guy who played 35 snaps last year. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

53 minutes ago, MJS said:

So bad they gave a 5th for him...

That’s a lot the way GMs think. Especially for an interior OL. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

Its a cap move. too much cap hit for a backup. 

 

Yep. I do think them liking Anderson as a similar cheaper version is a factor but mainly it tells me Morse is here for 2024. 

[Turk71]

Wouldn't surprise me if he starts and plays well in Chicago, I thought he was pretty good when given the chance for the Bills.  

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

From a pure value standpoint I like the trade. Bates is probably worth a 7th as a player, we got a 5th for him. Cool. Not sure what the Bears are doing but I'll take it.

 

If this means we are keeping Morse though I don't much like the outcome. It's time to get younger and cheaper. I would rather have Bates at center and Morse cut. Maybe Beane will surprise me and still move on from Morse even after this trade. That will tell me he understands what kind of offseason this needs to be.

Or maybe Morse is about to sign an extension which won't surprise me one bit. This regime doesn't have a barometer for age and or wear and tear on players . 

 

I would've loved to see them give Bates the extension save some cap this yr and trade away Morse and save another 9mil but not gonna happen now. We got to continue to hope Morse doesn't get another concussion because he's 1 away from possibly retiring. McBeane just doesn't learn they really suck at asset management just horrible. 

[eball]

Haven’t read through the entire thread, but I imagine the reason they couldn’t get more than a 5th is because by trading Bates they discard the entire cap hit rather than having dead cap if they released him?  That’s a nearly 5M savings.

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Well that sucks, I wonder if he wanted out. He’s a starting caliber player. 

McDermott is looking for extra picks so he can trade up for a corner.

[SectionC3]

8 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Going to be a lot if stuff we don't want to see this year.  Beane really has us backed in a corner no matter how you want to paint the cap picture 

 

This really isn't a huge deal.  At some point we have to trust younger guys.  It appears that we're going to trust younger guys (Anderson, specifically) as IOL backups.  Maybe Edwards stays, maybe he doesn't.  But Anderson moves into Bates's spot, and someone young and cheap will move into Anderson's spot.  

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I do think them liking Anderson as a similar cheaper version is a factor but mainly it tells me Morse is here for 2024. 

Agreed.  Morse likely stays.  We likely see some movement on Hyde in the next few days, too.  He's in town. 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

Haven’t read through the entire thread, but I imagine the reason they couldn’t get more than a 5th is because by trading Bates they discard the entire cap hit rather than having dead cap if they released him?  That’s a nearly 5M savings.

 

I mean, a high 5th isn't nothing.

 

What are people expecting to get for a backup Lineman? A Day 2 pick?

[DJB]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Really?

A 5th round pick for a career backup offensive lineman who wasn't gonna be starting in Buffalo for the foreseeable future seems like a great return to me. 
 

Nothing wrong with having great depth especially at the OL spot though. 
 

If the OL is banged up this thread is getting bumped next season by someone for sure 

Edited March 5 by DJB

[Matt_In_NH]

30 minutes ago, eball said:

Haven’t read through the entire thread, but I imagine the reason they couldn’t get more than a 5th is because by trading Bates they discard the entire cap hit rather than having dead cap if they released him?  That’s a nearly 5M savings.

Huh?

[Donuts and Doritos]

Deep O-line draft. I see us drafting a center day 3. Someone who can develop behind Morse. Cheeper option than Bates. I imagine Bates wanted to start & Beane didn't want to pay that much for a backup player.

[Magox]

This move puzzles me a bit.  The cap savings this year is minimal, however in 2025 I believe the cap savings is over $5m.   
 

Bates I thought all along was going to be given pole position on being Morse’s replacement and provided valuable depth.   I’m not sure a 5th rounder and some cap savings is enough of a trade off.    
 

Beane and McD must really like who we have on the roster that can replace what Bates was providing.

[Bills!Win!]

The real question is - should we trade Ryan Bates?

[fergie's ire]

I feel the Bates the way I feel about Dane Jackson on defense.  I love having them on the team.  They are great backups, very versatile and play well in spot duty...but if you need them to take over as a starter, they become a problem.  I think in 22 they were hoping that Bates would develop as a starter but his failure to do so is one reason they went out and signed a couple of guards last year in FA and then drafted one early.  Yes, that was as guard and maybe he is better as a center, but I think that the Bills brass has seen enough of him to doubt he can be a starter and he is too expensive as a backup.  Anderson can fill that role and maybe develop into a starter.

[Your Brown Eye]

Sucks, I liked the guy but understand the move. Wish we got a 4th for him.

[DieHardBillsFan]

That trade value is terrible. Only thing that makes sense is he is a cap casualty.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I mean, a high 5th isn't nothing.

 

What are people expecting to get for a backup Lineman? A Day 2 pick?

 

A high 5th is as good as we could reasonably expect. This is the type of trade that usually nets a 7th or a swap of late picks.  I wish they could have kept him,  but they did well to get as much as they did.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Wow. I honestly did not see that coming. He was a good 6th man on the line, and the one who I expected to backup or replace Morse. This tells me Morse is staying because it's hard to expect a rookie to come in and be ready day 1. Even the blue chip top 10 OTs often take some time. Torrence was the best starting rookie we've had in years and he absolutely took his lumps, and he was projected as high as back of round 1.