Hypothetically… Brian Daboll gets the boot….

[Thurman#1]

All things absolutely equal?  Daboll.

 

But if Daboll was fired - chances are close to zero right now, but for the sake of argument - the Bills would keep Dorsey. He deserves the chance for at least the rest of the year, he knows the guys, and firing him now would be a crappy move that would have repercussions on what coaches would sign with us.

 

Not to mention that Dorsey is doing well so far this year.

[Billsatlastin2018]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If Dorsey doesn't evolve over the season, you definitely bring back Daboll or just fire Dorsey and hire someone else.  

 

While there have been some good things has done the past 2 weeks, there are still too many debacles like throwing it on 4th and inches when your QB is Josh Allen and him sneaking the ball on 4th and inches is without question going to have the highest success rate by a mile over any other play they can call.

It’s not only that. Philly on the stack play, has shown you how that works to perfection! Dorsey… you doofus… practice that.
Inexcusable 4th & Inches Pocket call!
NOBODY trusts Dorsey… at all!

[SoTier]

Quote

Zero chance he gets fired tho so this is a mute point.

 

Not to be a grammar nazi but the word that should used here is moot not mute.  Every time I see somebody post about a "mute point", it just aggravates me.    Moot has meanings relating to debate or discussion.  In the sentence above, the poster means the point has "little or no relevance", so he or she should use "moot".   Mute has meanings related to silence, ie "mute button".   The words' different spelling indicate their different pronounciations:  the oo in moot sounds likes the oo in room while mute is pronounced with the u as in use.   

 

That's your grammar lesson for the week ...  and now back to this silly discussion of what's not going to happen, ie a moot point.    😀

 

[Charles Romes]

Daboll constantly went to plan B - make josh run, which is not sustainable. 

[BuffaloBill]

11 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Why?  This is dumb

 

 

Amen ^^^^^^

 

 

[RyanC883]

I’ve seen Dorsey use the run game and intermediate passes more than Daboll.  If Dorsey does not improve I’d rather go with option C, neither.  But so far I lime what I’ve seen from Dorsey better than what we had with Daboll.  

[JackKemp]

The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Under Daboll’s genius the Giants have now regressed mightily. 

[davefan66]

Is this a Daboll thread, or an anti-Dorsey thread?

 

Daboll is not getting fired this season unless they go winless. If he is fired, he won’t come back here as OC.  He’d hang out waiting for another HC job.

[Solomon Grundy]

Wouldn't it matter what Josh Allen wants? 🤷

[gjv]

Don't think Dabol would coach with McDermott. 

[chris heff]

13 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

All I know is McD called McDaniel’s scheme “revolutionary” in the presser today. He’s scheming all sorts of creative ways to get guys the ball, a lot of misdirection, sleight of hand, magical stuff. No one is calling the Bills offense revolutionary or innovative. I think they could be so much more and I’m not a Dorsey hater. BUT it is extremely tough finding that guy who is a schematic genius. Panthers thought Joe Brady was one, now he’s in Buffalo as a QB’s coach after his failure.

Schematic geniuses are few and far between, it remains to be seen if McDaniel is one. What happens more often than not is defensive coordinators get enough film and find the tendencies. Remember the Wild Cat? Remember the Run and Shoot? Remember when June Jones was a schematic genius?

[warrior9]

13 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

All I know is McD called McDaniel’s scheme “revolutionary” in the presser today. He’s scheming all sorts of creative ways to get guys the ball, a lot of misdirection, sleight of hand, magical stuff. No one is calling the Bills offense revolutionary or innovative. I think they could be so much more and I’m not a Dorsey hater. BUT it is extremely tough finding that guy who is a schematic genius. Panthers thought Joe Brady was one, now he’s in Buffalo as a QB’s coach after his failure.

I think his time in Carolina was a fail but he isn't a failure. Going from LSU with the most gifted team ever right in to the pros with a new OC who also never coached in the pros is a recipe for disaster (and he was like 30 years old). He was no where near ready. He'll get another chance and I think he'll ultimately be good, just needs to learn. 

[djp14150]

13 hours ago, The 9 Isles said:

What would you do? 

Daboll won’t. He would lose the contract money owed if he came nback to buffalo as OC

[BuffaloBaumer]

Dabol leaving will be the only reason this team does not achieve greatness. I really believe the Bills are winning despite Dorsey, not because of him. This defense needs to play like they did against Washington to WIN the Super Bowl.

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

It’s not only that. Philly on the stack play, has shown you how that works to perfection! Dorsey… you doofus… practice that.
Inexcusable 4th & Inches Pocket call!
NOBODY trusts Dorsey… at all!

I do. 

[Kornfed]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

All things absolutely equal?  Daboll.

 

But if Daboll was fired - chances are close to zero right now, but for the sake of argument - the Bills would keep Dorsey. He deserves the chance for at least the rest of the year, he knows the guys, and firing him now would be a crappy move that would have repercussions on what coaches would sign with us.

 

Not to mention that Dorsey is doing well so far this year.

I think we're gunna see this offense evolve/improve as the year goes on. Yes, some bone head calls gotta go but remember, Josh is now in the process of mastering 12 formation offense. This has got to be a huge adjustment as far as reading the D after what he's been seeing for years. He's gunna get better and make Dorsey look great!

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

It’s not only that. Philly on the stack play, has shown you how that works to perfection! Dorsey… you doofus… practice that.
Inexcusable 4th & Inches Pocket call!
NOBODY trusts Dorsey… at all!

 

So first of all it was 4th and a long 1 not 4th and inches. Secondly while I didn't like the actual call,  long term not running the stack sneak there was the right decision IMO. I know technically the game was still "live" but to all extents and purposes it was dead. They couldn't move the ball. I don't mind putting something else on tape for DCs to consider next time we have a 4th and 1. I wouldn't have put that on tape mind you.... I'd have done something a bit cleverer.... the old Nate Hackett fake FB up the gut PA to the tight end maybe.

 

If it was 16-16 and he didn't run the stack sneak.... different story.

Edited September 26, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Utah John]

The biggest problem with getting Daboll back is that he'll be trying to leave again.  Some team will give him a second chance as HC, and by then Ken Dorsey will also be gone.  

2 hours ago, Kornfed said:

I think we're gunna see this offense evolve/improve as the year goes on. Yes, some bone head calls gotta go but remember, Josh is now in the process of mastering 12 formation offense. This has got to be a huge adjustment as far as reading the D after what he's been seeing for years. He's gunna get better and make Dorsey look great!

I suspect the Bills looked at the Raiders and Commanders as easy wins, not worthy of showing everything the offense could do.  This week, everything comes to the fore.  Let's hope so, anyway.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Even though Dabol wasnt perfect I think his overall personality and demeanor is way better for Josh than Dorsey's psycho-frenetic energy.

 

Edge to Dabol on gameplans and playcalls. Big edge on the identity he brings to the Offense.

 

[dpberr]

I prefer Ken Dorsey over Brian Daboll.  

 

Daboll may be this genius of offense during the week when building/installing the game plan, but I think Dorsey is the better coordinator when it comes to adapting the offense from game to game and during the game, and what counts is what you do after getting punched in the face by the defense.  

 

Daboll was often way too beholden to his formations and script of plays, and I think that is why the Giants are not doing well this year.  The defense knows what is coming, and he is not adapting/changing it up.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So first of all it was 4th and a long 1 not 4th and inches. Secondly while I didn't like the actual call,  long term not running the stack sneak there was the right decision IMO. I know technically the game was still "live" but to all extents and purposes it was dead. They couldn't move the ball. I don't mind putting something else on tape for DCs to consider next time we have a 4th and 1. I wouldn't have put that on tape mind you.... I'd have done something a bit cleverer.... the old Nate Hackett fake FB up the gut PA to the tight end maybe.

 

If it was 16-16 and he didn't run the stack sneak.... different story.

 

It was still only like 2 feet.

 

I get your point, but on a play like that, I dont care what we put on tape.

 

For the "tush push", McD should be able to send an email to the opposing coach during the week saying "Hey, when we get in Down and Less than a Yard, this is what we are going to run, and you wont be able to stop it". And then we go out there and do just that.

 

Philly does it. They did it last night. And when it was finally stopped once, they went right back to it a 2nd time because you arent stopping these guys from gaining 3 feet.

 

This is the area of football that good teams simplify and do best. Meat on meat. All we need is a couple feet, and all our guys are over 6 feet tall. Go get it.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It was still only like 2 feet.

 

I get your point, but on a play like that, I dont care what we put on tape.

 

For the "tush push", McD should be able to send an email to the opposing coach during the week saying "Hey, when we get in Down and Less than a Yard, this is what we are going to run, and you wont be able to stop it". And then we go out there and do just that.

 

Philly does it. They did it last night. And when it was finally stopped once, they went right back to it a 2nd time because you arent stopping these guys from gaining 3 feet.

 

This is the area of football that good teams simplify and do best. Meat on meat. All we need is a couple feet, and all our guys are over 6 feet tall. Go get it.

 

I'd still want other stuff on tape. There is tactical advantage there.

[Real McClappy]

#1 PTS/G offense or bust I guess. #2 last year and #2 thus far this year isn't good enough LMAO.

 

His short yardage play calls are questionable at times but that is easily fixable. If our O finishes in the top 5 again this year, most will get their wish with him leaving for a HC position somewhere I guess?

[Mr. WEO]

pass.  bum.

[bigK14094]

Daboll had brain cramps as OC, Dorsey is still going up the learning curve.  Who can forget those go nowhere trick plays that Daboll schemed.  Daboll isn't on the way out btw, so mute issue really.

[Motorin']

I'm actually wondering what happens if Josh McDaniels gets fired? 

 

How many Super Bowls did he win with Brady in a similar offensive system? 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

17 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

hes going to be an HC

 

For us hopefully

[GoBills808]

14 hours ago, section122 said:

Oh ive heard of him but please enlighten me why you are so convinced he will be a great hc?

 

Remember jim bob cooter? He was once a hot oc for the lions that was gonna be the next big thing.

 

Perbaps it was the 14 points johnsons offense put up against kc that convinced you he is better than mcd?

 

Again please tell me what about his ability to lead a team says we should toss the best coach in team history overboard?

 

Dorsey outperformed him last year and is doing so again this year....

I don't know that he would be a great HC. I just know all things considered I would prefer the staff be headed by a guy w a background on the offensive side of the ball

 

Imo Dorsey is fine but if you think an offense led by Josh Allen outperforming one led by Jared Goff is an indictment on anything other than QB I don't know what to tell you

[May Day 10]

People forget that he was becoming unpopular here near the end of his tenure.  They had some sluggish games various parts of that season.  Then we had the 'perfect game' and 13 seconds which were the best 2 offensive performances in the history of this franchise, and that is what everyone remembers.

 

I think Daboll was a very good coordinator.  I do think it is probably a good thing to change it up with coordinators every few years (as long as your QB is indoctrinated into the NFL and can deal/adapt).  No matter what a coordinator does, Im sure tendencies and predictability exist on some level once they hit 3-4-5 seasons with the same Offense (or defense).

[BarleyNY]

Daboll isn’t getting fired this season - and he wouldn’t work for McDermott again if he was looking for work. I don’t think Daboll is tied to Jones there either. Trying to fix him was option A. They’ll likely be looking for option B before next season, which will likely be Jones’s last there. 

[KingBoots8]

I don’t think this happens, however, if it was to happen I think we bring him back as an assistant head coach and pair him in a support role for the offense. In the event Dorsey is shown the door, he’d be able to immediately step in and do what he does.

[H2o]

I chose Daboll over Dorsey, but it's a coinflip honestly. I doubt that happens to him after a single bad season in NY (if he does have a bad season this year in NY). Daboll's offenses seemed more creative overall and I think he and Josh had a better relationship. But if Dorsey continues to do some different things this year, and the offense eventually clicks, then you definitely would keep Dorsey. It's still too early to tell right now. If you think about it, the offense didn't really click here with Daboll running the show until year 3. Granted the tools Daboll had to work with changed significantly with the addition of Diggs that year, but we all used to complain about his play calling a lot at times too. 

 

The problem with any OC in Buffalo is Josh potentially making them look really good and some other team hiring them. It's the same way with coordinators all over the league, especially those on successful teams. See Brady with McDaniels (twice teams have been suckered by this guy), Manning with Gase (another repeat offender), and Rodgers with Hackett. We may be in for rinse, cycle, and repeat over the next decade with Josh here as far as OC's go. If the necessary talent is around him, then Josh will be successful no matter what. 

[Homey D. Clown]

I don't get all the disdain for Dorsey.  I feel like he's a far more balanced OC than dabol ever was.  When you consider the lack of slot presence we had with Cole Beasley( I contend Dabol's best years were when beasley was at his peak) and a much more suspect offensive line, I find it hard to blame it on an OC, whether it be Dorsey, Dabol, or anyone else for that matter.  Let's also consider Diggs is now 29, and while he still seems to have not lost a step, he may not have that extra juice when other receivers are not picking up the slack.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Homey D. Clown

[John from Riverside]

13 hours ago, McBean said:

Not only do you bring back Daboll, make him the HC.

 

You all are out of your mind if you didn’t want him back in WNY.

 

Zero chance he gets fired tho so this is a mute point.

Amazin

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Dorsey has seemingly created a run game. If he can keep that going for a full season and stop the stupid 4th & short throws then I am riding with him. 

[RichRiderBills]

I don't think he'd come back here. He'd get paid anyways and probably go back to college. I could see him being an excellent college coach. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

No doubt, bring back DaBoll. Didn’t love him as the OC, and I think Dorsey is a fine OC with the chance to be elite, but Daboll’s impact on Allen is unquestionable.

[Utah John]

8 hours ago, dpberr said:

I prefer Ken Dorsey over Brian Daboll.  

 

Daboll may be this genius of offense during the week when building/installing the game plan, but I think Dorsey is the better coordinator when it comes to adapting the offense from game to game and during the game, and what counts is what you do after getting punched in the face by the defense.  

 

Daboll was often way too beholden to his formations and script of plays, and I think that is why the Giants are not doing well this year.  The defense knows what is coming, and he is not adapting/changing it up.  

Interesting perspective.  My impression of Daboll was that he was actually good at making adjustments during the game.  Probably it was more a case of him having a lot of plays ready to go, and he just went to the ones that were working.

[newcam2012]

On 9/25/2023 at 4:55 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think people forget how maddening Daboll could be at times. 

 

Abandoning the run game. All the cute calls. Nah, that ship has sailed IMO. 

 

If Dorsey were to move on for some reason I would want someone else that can teach Josh and the offense things they haven't learned. New perspective. 

True but Allen was his best under Daboll. That has to count for something. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

True but Allen was his best under Daboll. That has to count for something. 

I think a fair question to ask in this case is was he better under Daboll...or healthier and physically able to do more under Daboll?

 

That's something I think we will be able to tell as time goes on. Sample size of Allen under Dorsey is small...but remember before the elbow injury Allen was on fire early in the season.

Edited September 27, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG