Gesicki on the trade block

[StHustle]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Why waste that money when we already have Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox on rookie contracts?

 

I get it, Gesicki is a talent. But he isnt a need.

never said the trade actually makes sense from a cap standpoint. I’m saying he’d be absolutely lethal in our offense while others try to brush it off like he wouldn’t help us much cause he can’t block. I know it’s not gonna happen just talking hypotheticals

[The Dean]

Just now, StHustle said:

Hodgins is 3 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter. Not only that Hodgins plays smaller than his size. No comparison.

 

Does anyone really know how Hodgins plays? But given there salaries and  the Bills cap space (and the players they should extend), I'd roll with Hodgins.

 

But I disagree with those who don't believe he's a valuable pass catching TE

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Shaq Lawson & a #3

We wouldn't do that to Shaq.

[Rigotz]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

No way they’d trade him to us…but man imagine adding TE of his caliber!!

 

We already have a TE of his caliber coming up on contract. Why would we give up a good draft pick for another one?

 

If anything, we should get a better primary blocking TE or draft a Dawson replacement or just friggin re-sign Dawson.

[Rubes]

1 minute ago, Rigotz said:

 

We already have a TE of his caliber coming up on contract. Why would we give up a good draft pick for another one?

 

If anything, we should get a better primary blocking TE or draft a Dawson replacement or just friggin re-sign Dawson.

 

We have a winner!

 

[msw2112]

Knox is a good buddy of Allen's and a good locker room presence overall.  He's gotten better every year and is developing into a top tier TE.  I'm definitely in the camp of investing our "TE assets" into Knox versus bringing in an outside guy like Gesecki (who I just learned today cannot block).  Would it be nice to have ANOTHER pass catching TE on the roster?  Sure.  But roster spots are limited and when we go 2 TE, it is likely that we need blocking from at least one them.  Not sure Gesecki is that guy.  Salary cap is also limited.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

 

Last Miami TE Buffalo snagged didn't work out so well.  

How sad is it that Clay led the team in receiving yards (558) in 2017!  Talk about a sad bunch of pass catchers!

Edited August 24, 2022 by HereComesTheReignAgain

[Airseven]

Lordy I'd be all over that trade if I were the Bills on what amounts to a one year deal. Negotiate a round 3-4 pick depending how much money Miami picks up. Cut Howard. 

 

Still hoping Knox winds up with an extension by next week. Seems a swell time for it. 

[gjv]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Why in the hell would Miami want to trade that guy?  I've hated playing against him...he seems to be the one Fin who shows up against Buffalo.

 

It seems to me that for the last couple of years TE's has been a problem for the Bills to cover. 

[Doc Brown]

Giants should be all over this.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

My guess is that he can’t block.  The niner offense needs TEs that can block. 

 

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Probably requires him to block.

 

1 hour ago, uninja said:

McDaniel comes from the Shanahan stretch zone school where TE’s have a lot of blocking responsibilities. 
 

Gesicki is a ***** blocker and has basically just been playing as a big WR in the Dolphins offense the last couple of years. He’s admitted as much so his value in their new offense is low. 

 

Trade a significant weapon because he does not fulfill the blocking requirements of The Legendary Mike McDaniels Offense?

 

 

lol--who will they replace him with?  Lee Smith? 

[Virgil]

Why would you give up draft or player capitol for a guy you can’t re-sign?   This is just poor planning by the Dolphins. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

Trade a significant weapon because he does not fulfill the blocking requirements of The Legendary Mike McDaniels Offense?

 

 

lol--who will they replace him with?  Lee Smith? 

Yeah, that’s part of it.  The other part is they don’t want to pay him long term, partly because he doesn’t fit the legendary scheme.  I was shocked when they franchised him as he’s a terrible fit for the O.  Would’ve been better off trying to land a comp pick for him. 
 

They invested a lot in 2 other much more significant weapons in Hill and Waddle.  They paid a RB much more than expected.  Committing long term to a TE that can’t block while playing the the “legendary” shanahan scheme would be a blunder

[GunnerBill]

Also put me in the camp that ALWAYS thought this was a clunky fit. I was surprised they tagged him. He does not, at all, fit the Shanahan offense if we presume that is what McDaniel wants to run. 

 

Mike Gesicki is not, in anything but name, a tight end. Fewer than 100 snaps at tight end last season. He is a big slow slot receiver in an offense that wants the speedy scat back type of receiver in the slot. 

 

There are lots of teams where Gesicki would excel. But I suspect stuck in the McDaniel offense for a year his value would plummet by next season and they'd end up letting him go for nothing. The question is how much are you getting for a guy playing on the tag? I think I am right that the rules would still preclude a new team signing him long term until after the season. 

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

Trade a significant weapon because he does not fulfill the blocking requirements of The Legendary Mike McDaniels Offense?

 

 

lol--who will they replace him with?  Lee Smith? 

 

Lee Smith wouldn't fit the Shanahan offense either. That offense cannot work with a one dimensional tight end. They need genuine two dimensional tight ends. They don't have to block like Lee Smith and they don't have to run routes like Zach Ertz. But they have to be capable of doing some of both. 

 

EDIT: and the reality is the guy they have replaced Gesicki with in the slot is Tyreek Hill. That is the position he played for them. Slot receiver. They traded for Hill. They then tried him at tight end a position he has barely played in the pros and he predictably sucked at it. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

One more time.  The Bills will save NOTHING if they cut Howard, because his $3.25M contract is fully guaranteed.  In fact, it will cost them $0.625M to cut him because he has a void year tacked on to his fully guaranteed 1 year contract

 

 

 

Ah, didn't see that, just saw other posters saying we save over $2M cutting him so was going off of what they said.  But I just googled it now to confirm its fully guaranteed.

 

So let me rephrase...wont surprise me to see the Bills trade OJ Howard before week 1 at this point either.  Although I am also confident that if Beane thinks the team is better off without OJ on it and can't find a trade partner, he would still cut him to keep the player who best will help this team.  But his fully guaranteed contract does make it less likely he is cut, but still a possibility if he doesn't find a way to earn his spot this next week.  Personally, I am still intrigued by him and hope it works out.  But also, not going to lose any sleep if he doesn't make the week 1 roster.  

[Freddie's Dead]

GIT 'R' DUNNNNN!!!  FOR REAL THIS TIME!!!  GIVE 'EM HOWARD AND CROWDER!!!!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

His 'being on the outs' in Miami is all Gesicki's doing.  First day of training camp he pantsed the junior waterboy, then discovered it was really Coach McDaniel. 🤦🏼‍♂️

Edited August 24, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[LabattBlue]

The Bills have their own TE to pay…and no thanks to giving up assets for him. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by BTB

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

At this point I can easily see Howard getting cut.  

 

Highly unlikely as will cost as much to cut him as to keep him.  Either he gets traded or plays the year out.

[Southern_Bills]

3 hours ago, DJB said:

 

Props to the poster that called this a few days ago. Please announce yourself as well for a complimentary back rub

 

Careful on the back rub, he may deshaun watson you.

[thenorthremembers]

I'd be incredibly surprised to see him moved.   I loved Hunter Long coming out of college, but he was only active for 7 games last year.  The guys behind Gesicki have a combined 80 career catches and 3 tds.   I dont know maybe they are trying to get Charlie Woerner from the 49ers but even that guy has only had 8 career catches.  Just seems really odd.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Yeah, that’s part of it.  The other part is they don’t want to pay him long term, partly because he doesn’t fit the legendary scheme.  I was shocked when they franchised him as he’s a terrible fit for the O.  Would’ve been better off trying to land a comp pick for him. 
 

They invested a lot in 2 other much more significant weapons in Hill and Waddle.  They paid a RB much more than expected.  Committing long term to a TE that can’t block while playing the the “legendary” shanahan scheme would be a blunder

 

Kyle Shanahan isn't walking through the Dolphins door anytime soon.....

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Also put me in the camp that ALWAYS thought this was a clunky fit. I was surprised they tagged him. He does not, at all, fit the Shanahan offense if we presume that is what McDaniel wants to run. 

 

Mike Gesicki is not, in anything but name, a tight end. Fewer than 100 snaps at tight end last season. He is a big slow slot receiver in an offense that wants the speedy scat back type of receiver in the slot. 

 

There are lots of teams where Gesicki would excel. But I suspect stuck in the McDaniel offense for a year his value would plummet by next season and they'd end up letting him go for nothing. The question is how much are you getting for a guy playing on the tag? I think I am right that the rules would still preclude a new team signing him long term until after the season. 

 

Lee Smith wouldn't fit the Shanahan offense either. That offense cannot work with a one dimensional tight end. They need genuine two dimensional tight ends. They don't have to block like Lee Smith and they don't have to run routes like Zach Ertz. But they have to be capable of doing some of both. 

 

EDIT: and the reality is the guy they have replaced Gesicki with in the slot is Tyreek Hill. That is the position he played for them. Slot receiver. They traded for Hill. They then tried him at tight end a position he has barely played in the pros and he predictably sucked at it. 

 

 

Who is that?  Where is that guy? Shanahan's Offense (McDaniel is a glorified position coach) depended on a Kittles caliber TE.  That guy isn't walking through the door either. 

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Who is that?  Where is that guy? Shanahan's Offense (McDaniel is a glorified position coach) depended on a Kittles caliber TE.  That guy isn't walking through the door either. 

 

We don't know what McDaniel is and you may well be right about him. But the Shanahan scheme does not need superstar tight ends to function. It has had success with slightly above average two dimensional players like Chris Cooley and Owen Daniels and Fred Davis. But you have to be able to do both. Dawson Knox isn't a superstar blocker by any means but he blocks well enough to play in that scheme. Gesicki doesn't block. He doesn't even play tight end!!

[frostbitmic]

Before cutting or trading Gesicki the Dolphins need to get in touch with Sean Payton and brady first. They might want him next year.

[JDubya76]

[machine gun kelly]

Bedecking is a better fit than even OBJ.  OBJ won’t be ready until December.  Gesecki is a nightmare with Knox for the 12 personnel option.  Just my opinion.  We really don’t need anyone else if Tre’s back in a reasonable timeframe.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I'd be incredibly surprised to see him moved.   I loved Hunter Long coming out of college, but he was only active for 7 games last year.  The guys behind Gesicki have a combined 80 career catches and 3 tds.   I dont know maybe they are trying to get Charlie Woerner from the 49ers but even that guy has only had 8 career catches.  Just seems really odd.

 

Durham Smythe (TE who seems to be heading Mia's TE depth chart) has been on an upward trajectory the last two years.  When he does get targeted, he seems to haul it in - >80% catch and low drops.

 

What he can do that Gesicki can't, is block

Edited August 24, 2022 by Beck Water

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

At this point I can easily see Howard getting cut.  

His salary is guaranteed so I don't expect him to be cut.  TRADED, maybe.

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Makes sense to get rid of Howard. From the OP's attachment

TE O.J. HOWARD, BUFFALO BILLS

It was notable to see tight end Quintin Morris, not Howard, start in place of Dawson Knox in Buffalo's Week 2 preseason matchup, which Knox missed to be with his family after the tragic death of his younger brother.

Next off the bench was Tommy Sweeney. Then Howard got reps. Morris played seven snaps in the first quarter, while Sweeney received three snaps and Howard was on the field for just one play in the opening quarter.

It wasn’t ultimately all that shocking, however, since PFF was told by a source earlier in the week after Jalen Wydermyer was released that Buffalo believed Morris was one of their most improved players this offseason. That source believed Morris could push Howard, who was identified as a training camp “faller” for a piece earlier this month, off the roster.

Morris, a 2021 undrafted free agent out of Bowling Green, boasts a 77.8 PFF grade through two preseason games. He has good size at 6-foot-2, 252 pounds and ran a 4.66-second 40-yard dash last spring. Sweeney has earned a 73.0 mark, while Howard has garnered a 59.6 grade and has played more preseason snaps than Morris and Sweeney.

The Bills would save $2.25 million if they traded or released Howard.

 

Im not sure the Bills save 2 million if they CUT Howard. I thought his base salary (1.945 million)was guaranteed. 

[Victory Formation]

He’s excellent, but I would rather have Knox more.

[eball]

This is why I love this board. Guys like @GunnerBill and @NewEra come in and explain why Gesicki is a bad fit in Miami and do so without belittling anyone or making themselves out to be know-it-alls.

 

Refreshing. Thanks guys. 
 

[RangerDave]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I don't think he's a match for the skill set we expect of a TE.  We even expect our WR to block decently.  Davis blocks well.  Even the Muscle Hamster can lay a respectable block down.

 

If these guys can block, why can't Gesicki?  Is this something our staff can teach him, is it something he would be willing to do to be on a SB favorite, or he is unwiling to do so and thus he is not a process guy?

[co_springs_billsfan]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

"You rang?"

Beat me to it!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, eball said:

Why in the hell would Miami want to trade that guy?  I've hated playing against him...he seems to be the one Fin who shows up against Buffalo.

 

That was my thinking… I’d trade for him just to not have to play him even if he was just inactive for phins game. Always a tough match up…

[Thurman#1]

37 minutes ago, Georgie said:

His salary is guaranteed so I don't expect him to be cut.  TRADED, maybe.

Im not sure the Bills save 2 million if they CUT Howard. I thought his base salary (1.945 million)was guaranteed. 

 

 

You're right, the salary is guaranteed. 

 

But they could still decide that they value the roster spot more than the money they would save. In that case they would of course try to trade him before cutting him, but might not find a taker. If no trade was available, they still might decide to cut him, but would not save money by doing so, as you correctly pointed out.

[NewEra]

27 minutes ago, eball said:

This is why I love this board. Guys like @GunnerBill and @NewEra come in and explain why Gesicki is a bad fit in Miami and do so without belittling anyone or making themselves out to be know-it-alls.

 

Refreshing. Thanks guys. 
 

Yeah, it’s really becoming such a trash fest 24/7.  It used to be entertaining at times, but it slowly takes over almost every decent thread so much so that I don’t really post much anymore.  
 

The same 💩’s dropping the nuggets of insecurity and immaturity everywhere.  The same nuggets they’ve been dropping 24/7 for the last 1-5 years.  
 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by NewEra

[Rc2catch]

He’s probably the only Dolphin I enjoy watching. It helps that he helped my fantasy teams the last couple years in emergency spots as well. 
Anytime I have watched him he’s always open. 
Hope they send him to the NFC if they move him. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Clay hands. Clay feet.

Clay feet, stone hands towards the end.

5 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

At this point I can easily see Howard getting cut.  

No, it was already announced he's just reducing his workload by two days from the normal five...

*
😁

[dollars 2 donuts]

Side note and completely unrelated, but Gaseki (86) is rated higher than Knox (83) in Madden 23.

 

yeah, annoying.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We don't know what McDaniel is and you may well be right about him. But the Shanahan scheme does not need superstar tight ends to function. It has had success with slightly above average two dimensional players like Chris Cooley and Owen Daniels and Fred Davis. But you have to be able to do both. Dawson Knox isn't a superstar blocker by any means but he blocks well enough to play in that scheme. Gesicki doesn't block. He doesn't even play tight end!!

 

How did the Shanahan Offense do without Kittle---a guy who famously demanded to to be paid as a WR, not a TE?  

 

Who is the Fins slightly above average TE that blocks  well and catches?

[BuffaloBills1998]

He can’t run block worth of crap and he’s slow

5 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

 

 

For some reason, he's become Tremaine Edmunds to their fans, but he seems to be on the outs with their staff for some reason. They do prefer TEs who can block and catch, but I don't understand why they just don't use him like a slot receiver out of a 2 TE set or something. Given his receiving prowess, it seems like an offensive genius could find a way to use him. McDaniel feels to me like one of those guys who doesn't design an offense to his players. 

He’s too slow to be a slot receiver.