7 Bills players that are trending up and down (per Joe B)

[JohnNord]

Joe Buscaglia just dropped an interesting podcast where he named 7 Bills that have exceeded expectations and 7 who need to show more in training camp.  Some interesting takeaways:

 

1. Isaiah McKenzie - he’s been unguardable in both zone and man defense.  Solidifying the slot WR over Crowder as he offers better YAC potential.

 

2. Zach Moss - has looked a lot quicker and decisive and could factor into the run game more than initially thought

 

3. Khalil Shakir - smooth route runner that has played well at WR2 and could be a legit backup for Davis.  
 

4. Ed Oliver - making an impact every single practice and destroying the reshuffled OL

 

5. Christian Bedford - holding his own against WR’s and getting some snaps with the 1st team defense.  He’s a lock to make the team.

 

6. Jaquan Johnson - Has outplayed Damar Hamlin.  Offers position flexibility at safety and *could* be a cheaper replacement to Poyer in 2023

 

7. Matt Araiza - Solid holder…constantly punts farther and w/ nearly as much hang time as Haack.

 

 

Players who are not trending downward but need to show more and have yet to impress:

 

1. Kaiir Elam - inconsistent and might be thinking too much.  Has struggled versus Diggs and Davis.  Needs more time/experience

 

2. Spencer Brown - has not practiced with team yet.  Also struggled a bit toward the end of last season.  Might start the year on the bench behind David Quessenberry while he recovers.

 

3. Case Keenum  - has looked “meh” and has showed difficultly pushing the ball downfield.

 

4. Shaq Lawson - he’s made a few plays but has been relatively quiet in training camp

 

5. Greg VanRotten - has not looked good at all and is being outplayed by Greg Mancz.  Could end up on PS

 

6. Baylon Specter - ST potential but there may not be a spot on the 53 this year.

 

7. Tommy Sweeney - loved in the locker room but has been outplayed by Quinton Morris.  No separation and just an average blocker
 

 

Interesting to see Elam on the list but it probably doesn’t help that he’s facing Diggs and Davis each week.  Hopefully things slow for him. 
 

I also wonder if Shaq makes the 53. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by JohnNord

[TBBills]

Hard to know who to believe in these reports. I have heard many positives abut Elam.

Edited August 5, 2022 by TBBills

[Bangarang]

VanRotten being terrible should surprise literally nobody.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

Just now, TBBills said:

Hard to know who to believe in these reports. I have heard many positives abut Elam.

I have read/heard many positives about Elam as well, but like all reporting, one does need to sift through the info, to be able to separate opinions from actual facts/‘more credible reports, also one needs to read info from multiple sources to get a better overall “ feel “ for what’s going on. Concerning Elam, I suspect he as good as he is, is currently on the steepest part of the learning curve as we speak…, 
 

Go Bills!!!

[MPL]

I, for one, am not surprised to hear that Elam has had his struggles against Diggs and Davis. Those guys routinely put the best corners in the league on skates. That said, I'd feel better if I knew for sure he wouldn't be matching up on each team's best WR to start the season. 

[gobills404]

13 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Hard to know who to believe in these reports. I have heard many positives abut Elam.

Same but I’ve also heard more reports of him struggling/getting burnt than I have about Dane Jackson. Sounds like he is flashing his high upside but still has a lot to learn. So basically he’s been as expected.

[Solomon Grundy]

11 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

VanRotten being terrible should surprise literally nobody.

 

 

The name says it all 😎

[Success]

I think Moss will surprise people this year.  He's really talented, and has rarely been at 100% over the past couple of years.  

 

[LeGOATski]

21 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Hard to know who to believe in these reports. I have heard many positives abut Elam.

Don't believe any of it. These guys know nothing about football or have any insight into what the plays/assignments are.

 

Over the years I've enjoyed reading the "play-by-plays", so to speak, of each practice. Just the bare bones recap, not this stupid "who's trending" crap. You can notice trends from day to day on your own, but none of it matters until the games are played. It's the same song and dance every offseason.

[hemma]

IMO - Lawson only stays if there is an injury.

[Freddie's Dead]

Color me Shaqed that Shaq Lawson is not impressing.  Keith Ellison was better than this guy.  I thought we got a steal when we drafted him at 19.  We got robbed instead.  

 

VanRotten is an awesome Freudian slip, right up there with Isaac McKittrick.

[McBean]

Lawson has always been meh.

 

I’ve heard mixed reports on Elam as well.

 

What about Rousseau? 
 

Haven’t heard much about him.

[Southern_Bills]

I wouldn't stress over Elam, I'm not sure any CB comes into the league with things "figured out" mentally. 

 

I would think they are throwing the book at him to attempt to get him ready. If he gets it figures out be week 8 it's a win for the Bills.

[FLFan]

Elam is drinking from a firehouse right now.  He has never faced competition like this.  He is going against elite NFL talent every day.  It is no surprise that he struggles occasionally but the reports from camp indicate to me that he has had his moments as well. He will be one well prepared rookie by the time the season starts.

 

welcome to the school of Josh Allen and Stephon Diggs.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by FLFan

[Beast]

The good thing if Moss shows something this season is that we will be able to let Singletary walk without any hesitation, and that is no slight to Motor. Just economics.

[Jay_Fixit]

48 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Color me Shaqed that Shaq Lawson is not impressing.  Keith Ellison was better than this guy.  I thought we got a steal when we drafted him at 19.  We got robbed instead.  

 

VanRotten is an awesome Freudian slip, right up there with Isaac McKittrick.

Came here to speak Shaq but you’ve done it for me.

 

Shaq sucks. Always has and always will.

[Bill from NYC]

18 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Elam is drinking from a firehouse right now.  He has never faced competition like this.  

 

Yes he has. The kid has went against Davonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle. These two players could wind up as 2 of the best receivers in the NFL.

 

The kid is a good player and great competition is not new to him.

 

 

[djp14150]

Also remrmber…vets are taking it easy in early practices not operating at 100%.

 

in route running…context matters. A play might have been designed to create a certain situation to test out players like on the line and not actually comp,etc a pass and the receivers knew this so they weren’t going 100% on a play.

[msw2112]

28 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Elam is drinking from a firehouse right now.  He has never faced competition like this.  He is going against elite NFL talent every day.  It is no surprise that he struggles occasionally but the reports from camp indicate to me that he has had his moments as well. He will be one well prepared rookie by the time the season starts.

 

welcome to the school of Josh Allen and Stephon Diggs.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yes he has. The kid has went against Davonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle. These two players could wind up as 2 of the best receivers in the NFL.

 

The kid is a good player and great competition is not new to him.

 

 

 

I think that both posters are correct.  Elam played against Alabama, Georiga and other SEC teams in college that had high NFL draft picks at WR, so he did play against high-level competition.  That said, these college guys (18-20 year old kids) don't yet have the strength and polished route-running skills that an NFL veteran WR like Diggs has.  Assuming they hit their potential, they eventually will.  

 

In any event, Elam has clear talent and should "get there," but it's a pleasant surprise to me to hear that Benford is performing well.  If he pans out, he could be another late-round CB steal for the Bills.  Dane Jackson is trending in that direction already, having played very well down the stretch last season.

[HOUSE]

Shaq Lawson has pretty much been invisible in camp, he really needs to step it up soon. 

[chongli]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

 

7. Matt Araiza - Solid holder…constantly punts farther and w/ nearly as much hang time as Haack.

 

 

Thanks for posting this good nugget.

 

If Araiza can punt farther but with the same hang time as (or less than) Haack, wouldn't that give the returner a running head start against the defenders? Just wondering. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by chongli

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Thanks for posting this good nugget.

 

If Araiza can punt farther but with the same hang time as (or less than) Haack, wouldn't that give the returner a running head start against the defenders? Just wondering. 

Not really talked about but also gives you another solid tackler on the field

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yes he has. The kid has went against Davonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle. These two players could wind up as 2 of the best receivers in the NFL.

 

The kid is a good player and great competition is not new to him.

 

 

All due respect to the SEC, college is not the NFL, and he was not facing polished NFL receivers, no matter how the players you mention “could wind up”.  According to Elam, Allen is the best QB he has ever seen.  That is most certainly true.  He has not faced competition like this before. 

 

Don't get me wrong,  I think Elam is a good player and will be just fine.  I was just responding to concerns being expressed as to why he has not been out of the gate dominant as pointed by Joe B in the quoted article.  

[Shaw66]

The real concern is cornerback.   A fair appraisal of the corners to date in camp would be, I think, that the Bills do not have one dependable corner on the field.   White's not there, Elam isn't lighting it up, Jackson is struggling, Bedford has made a little noise but no one is saying he's ready for prime time.   

 

Am I worried?   Well, yes, in the short term.  Two underperforming corners on the field would be a problem against most teams.  But White should be back - I'd guess at least by October, and the guys who are struggling now all will be learning, week-by-week.   Barring injury, the Bills should be okay when the Bills get to crunch time in the second half of the season.  

 

The problem seems similar on the offensive line.   Bates SHOULD be back and Saffold SHOULD be back, but until they're back, they aren't, and it isn't so clear who fills in for them.  At least Quessenberry should be able to fill in for Brown with decent play.   As Bates comes on line, and Saffold, and if Brown can get back on the field and able to play, the line will rise to the challenge.  

 

It's football.  There's always something.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

VanRotten being terrible should surprise literally nobody.

 

 

Why- because he’s been vanrotten? 😉

[Victory Formation]

23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The real concern is cornerback.   A fair appraisal of the corners to date in camp would be, I think, that the Bills do not have one dependable corner on the field.   White's not there, Elam isn't lighting it up, Jackson is struggling, Bedford has made a little noise but no one is saying he's ready for prime time.   

 

Am I worried?   Well, yes, in the short term.  Two underperforming corners on the field would be a problem against most teams.  But White should be back - I'd guess at least by October, and the guys who are struggling now all will be learning, week-by-week.   Barring injury, the Bills should be okay when the Bills get to crunch time in the second half of the season.  

 

The problem seems similar on the offensive line.   Bates SHOULD be back and Saffold SHOULD be back, but until they're back, they aren't, and it isn't so clear who fills in for them.  At least Quessenberry should be able to fill in for Brown with decent play.   As Bates comes on line, and Saffold, and if Brown can get back on the field and able to play, the line will rise to the challenge.  

 

It's football.  There's always something.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s likely one of those units that will have to gel as the season goes on. As far as Elam goes, keep this in mind, Allen has made even the Jalen Ramsey’s of the NFL look bad. Even if Elam has perfect coverage, Allen can throw a 100mph fastball and still get the ball there. How will he stack up against lesser competition? That’s the question.

 

Also, I will never question this FO/staff when it comes to DBs. This is McD’s forte. I trust that Elam, Dane, Taron and Benford will be good enough to get the job done. Keep in mind that these guys are playing behind a top notch front 7 as well.

 

I also suspect that our defense will carry us through quite a few games this year and it won’t all be on Josh. I think Buffalo has a complete team this year and dare I say it, maybe even a running game with Motor/Cook!

[Offside Number 76]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

3. Case Keenum  - has looked “meh” and has showed difficultly pushing the ball downfield.

 

What a shock to the conscience.  I don't want him on this team.  If something happens to Allen, I want Barkley in.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

It’s likely one of those units that will have to gel as the season goes on. As far as Elam goes, keep this in mind, Allen has made even the Jalen Ramsey’s of the NFL look bad. Even if Elam has perfect coverage, Allen can throw a 100mph fastball and still get the ball there. How will he stack up against lesser competition? That’s the question.

 

Also, I will never question this FO/staff when it comes to DBs. This is McD’s forte. I trust that Elam, Dane, Taron and Benford will be good enough to get the job done. Keep in mind that these guys are playing behind a top notch front 7 as well.

 

I also suspect that our defense will carry us through quite a few games this year and it won’t all be on Josh. I think Buffalo has a complete team this year and dare I say it, maybe even a running game with Motor/Cook!

Good stuff.  I agree.   The units will gel, or likely will.  And they played late last season with Jackson and Wallace and they made that work okay.   This will be better than that.  

 

The upside for the team is fabulous.   If the line and corners come together sooner rather than later, they will pile up a lot of wins.  

[Offside Number 76]

1 hour ago, chongli said:

 

Thanks for posting this good nugget.

 

If Araiza can punt farther but with the same hang time as (or less than) Haack, wouldn't that give the returner a running head start against the defenders? Just wondering. 

 

A punter certainly can outkick his coverage.  That's why the hang time stat was discovered/invented (in large, as a response to Reggie Roby with the fins, who could seemingly kick a ball into the clouds) to begin with.  It's a delicate balance.  Directional punting, which fell out of favor for about 25 years but seems to be regaining a foothold, can combat that.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Offside Number 76

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yes he has. The kid has went against Davonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle. These two players could wind up as 2 of the best receivers in the NFL.

 

The kid is a good player and great competition is not new to him.

 

 

Both a great.  Neither are Stefan Diggs.  

[chongli]

17 minutes ago, Offside Number 76 said:

 

A punter certainly can outkick his coverage.  That's why the hang time stat was discovered/invented (in large, as a response to Reggie Roby with the fins, who could seemingly kick a ball into the clouds) to begin with.  It's a delicate balance.  Directional punting, which fell out of favor for about 25 years but seems to be regaining a foothold, can combat that.

 

Thank you. Excellent reply. I do remember the Reggie Roby days and announcers going gaga over him with the Dolphins, with their new hang time counter on NBC at the time (which covered the AFC). I also remember the old days of the coffin corner. A lost skill today.

Edited August 6, 2022 by chongli

[Rampage]

3 hours ago, MPL said:

I, for one, am not surprised to hear that Elam has had his struggles against Diggs and Davis. Those guys routinely put the best corners in the league on skates. That said, I'd feel better if I knew for sure he wouldn't be matching up on each team's best WR to start the season. 

Yeah, that line was embarrassing. He's a rookie in camp, if Diggs wasn't lighting him up I'd be way more concerned about that.

[Offside Number 76]

16 minutes ago, chongli said:

also remember the old days of the coffin corner. A lost skill today.

This!  Give me a punter who can do this!

[YattaOkasan]

8 minutes ago, Offside Number 76 said:

This!  Give me a punter who can do this!

Said it in another thread but this is pretty low priority for me. With holding distance hangtime all being more important. 

[BillMafia716ix]

Kaiir struggled today in the scrimmage. Don’t think he’s a day 1 starter just yet. He’s going to need time. 

[gonzo1105]

20 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Kaiir struggled today in the scrimmage. Don’t think he’s a day 1 starter just yet. He’s going to need time. 

 

 

I said at the time when we drafted him that I was not a fan. Obviously I'm rooting for the guy to be successful cause he's a Bill but a lot of the same warts have cropped up but against better comp. Lets see how he does when the lights turn on in preseason though. Its not easy going up against the Bills offense either. I mean at worst they'll be top 5 in the league.

[without a drought]

1 hour ago, Offside Number 76 said:

 

What a shock to the conscience.  I don't want him on this team.  If something happens to Allen, I want Barkley in.

Going for better draft position?

[BigDingus]

5 hours ago, TBBills said:

Hard to know who to believe in these reports. I have heard many positives abut Elam.

 

Probably just what we want to hear more than how it's really going. 

 

Seems like most reports talk about him struggling with holding or being overly aggressive in man coverage.

 

Obviously, that will improve with reps & time, so I'm not worried. He just needs to acclimate to the speed/size of the NFL compared to his college competition & get some more experience under his belt.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

I believe it all because Joe B. is an accomplished GM.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Is Lawson one of those guys that never looks good in practice but is better in games? He could not beat out PED Murphy in practice but outplayed him in the real games. I think I had Lawson making the roster over Epenesa but that may be in jeopardy.  

Still think they should have kept Hughes. I'd trade Epenesa for Hughes right now.

I had Moss making the final 53 and Sweeney not. 

 

2 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Thank you. Excellent reply. I do remember the Reggie Roby days and announcers going gaga over him with the Dolphins, with their new hang time counter on NBC at the time (which covered the AFC). I also remember the old days of the coffin corner. A lost skill today.

It does seem odd but there is no doubt it went away. Much more emphasis on getting the distance and hang time correct than the direction. One would think it is easier to defend the punt return if they pin the ball to one side of the field.