OT: Belichick says that Mac's improvement is "dramatic"

[Orlando Tim]

17 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Mac Jones will be a serviceable NFL QB and will start for the Pats as long as Belichick is coaching there.  As soon as he retires and a new regime comes in they will move on from Jones and he will become a professional clip board holder bouncing around the league for a few years padding his bank account.  Some say his ceiling is Drew Brees.   I don't agree with that, but even if for the sake of argument you agree with that, what kind of career does Brees have without Sean Payton creating that offense around him?   Brees had Payton to help elevate his game, Jones doesn't even have a real OC this year.  The contrast couldn't be greater.

 

 

To bolster your point a little, Breed was benched in SD for a 41 year old Flutie and was mediocre at best there. Many forget Brees is more of a "system" QB then Josh or Mahomes are. And before anyone jumps on it, system QB is not an insult from me.

[CSBill]

🙄

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

With Jones, a rookie (from Bama, no less), NE foguth for the Division title to the end of the season and won 10 games, made the playoffs. 

 

With Herbert, 2 3rd place finishes, one winning season (9 wins in a 17 game season), zero playoff games.

 

LOL!  Belicheat would trade Jones for Herbert is a millisecond.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Belichick calling Superman’s phone booth only to find out he is already playing for the Bills

 

 

Whenever I’m feeling blue, I just put this and the YouTube of him tossing the iPad into the garbage on a loop.  Then I start singing this..

 

Here’s to another season where our goal needs to be BB destroying some form of technology in both Bills games.

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

They used him appropriately and effectively.  See the Bills game.  I’m saying he outperformed expectations.
 

Herbert doesn’t belong in a top 5 discussion yet.  Maybe this year.. 

 

They hid him. Call it what it was.

Allen was allowed to throw the ball all over the place and did so quite effectively for the conditions in the second half. That deep throw to Diggs in there endzone that got held up slightly in the wind but hit him in the upper arm over two defenders was one of the best throws you'll ever see factoring in conditions.

 

Jones has no prayer of being able to throw in those conditions.

 

He got exposed in the playoffs.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Rodgers won the MVP and didn’t win a playoff game.  Jones doesn’t have to win the SB to be a dark horse candidate.  

 

The Patriots and Jones would have to win the division for him to be a true candidate by the end of the season. Pretty much every QB that has won the MVP in the last 15 years, perhaps more has been a #1 or #2 seed. I imagine every single one has at least finished atop their division. Simply making the wild card will not be enough to be a legitimate MVP candidate. 

 

Allen's played well the last two seasons while winning the division each year. While he finished second in MVP voting in 2020, the vote count was not even close. So despite Allen putting up numbers that Mac could probably only dream of AND finishing first in the division two years running Allen still has not been close to winning the MVP by vote count. 

 

On paper it appears the Patriots have taken a step back while the Dolphins have taken a step forward. 

 

[mushypeaches]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't think he understands the concept of high floor, low ceiling like Alex Smith.

 

Especially when people get to see the difference between him and Josh Allen twice a year. And let's be honest, it's a stark difference in physical talent. Jones is Clark Kent to Allen's Superman and there is no phone booth on the sidelines or locker room for Jones to go in to transform.

 

Couple this with the disaster that will be Patricia and Judge acting as defacto OCs this year and lack of skill position talent still and I find it hard to see how Jones has a better year than he did last year under McDaniels who while potentially being a total douchebag and poor HC, is a pretty damn good OC.

 

He is what he is. A good game manager that doesn't have the physical ability to force teams to respect him the way they do Allen or Mahomes or Herbert.

 

Not saying he can't have a long career and be very successful during the regular season, he can. Chiefs had the best record in the NFL over the near decade that Smith was their QB in the regular season. But we all saw how his lack of physical ability was exposed during the playoffs. Reid didn't win the Super Bowl until Mahomes was his QB.

 

Sure he might have some limited success early on in the playoffs but unless he has an unbelievable team surrounding him like the 2000 Ravens or Broncos had with Peyton Manning, they won't be winning the SB because of him.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ex-nfl-gm-chooses-patriots-qb-mac-jones-sneaky-2022-mvp-pick

 

Ummm, that's some fairly revisionist history regarding Alex Smith

 

He played in KC for 5 seasons (2013-2017) and compiled a 50-26 record.  They made the playoffs 3 of those years, and their best season with him at QB was 11-5

During that same timeframe, Tom Brady was 60-16

Peyton Manning's last 5 seasons, he was 55-16

 

I get the comparison somewhat, but Mac Jones hasn't shown even the physical ability that Alex Smith had in his career.  There's a reason why he was the #1 overall pick in 2005

 

To me, Mac Jones is more like a Chad Pennington - cerebral, accurate, but you knew what his ceiling was going to be VERY early on in his career

Chad Pennington - 44-37 record, 102 TD's, 64 INT's, 66% completions, and went 2-4 in the playoffs for teams that were usually good but never great

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Hey Kurt Warner was an MVP, maybe he will pull a Kurt Warner.

Mrs. Warner says "None of that, please!" 😠

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Mvp is unlikely. 

 

But he could make the probowl

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Mvp is unlikely. 

 

But he could make the probowl

 

Once 5 other QBs decide not to go

[C.Biscuit97]

I was so happy they took Mac. They are locked into mediocrity. It’s hilarious how teams buy into Bama qbs. Which nfl qb won’t look amazing at Bama in college? There is not one thing he does well. He is a meh dude who’s absolute pinnacle is maybe Kirk Cousins. And that might be a huge reach. Just so average in so many ways. 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

I think networks predesignate ‘a stupid guy’ and having watched him a few times of late, I think he’s one of ESPN’s lead designees.

 

Sounds like TV wrestling.

[MiltonWaddams]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Hey Kurt Warner was an MVP, maybe he will pull a Kurt Warner.

Did you watch Kurt?!!! I am biased because the guy is one of my all-time favorite humans in the league, but he had incredible talent. Mac will NEVER be as good as Kurt was.

[Low Positive]

2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Jones seems to have some kind of halo effect with some in media, especially old timers. It seems like they view him as the perfect old school cerebral accurate QB. Personally I find it laughable. Kind of like longing for the days of the Model T with these guys like Charlie Weis and Mike Tanenbaum.

This is what I think. He does check a lot of old school boxes. GMs loved him because you knew exactly what you were getting. People in NE are expecting a second year leap, but there is no where for him to go. Any flaws in his game that could be improved by coaching were corrected at some passing academy a decade ago.

[Success]

Pats fans have been talking this way about the guy all offseason.  They're worse than I was w/ Tuel.

 

Jones seems like a nice dude, and capable QB - but I have never wanted to see a player fail as much.  The hype is ridiculous. "They've got their Montana/Young situation!"  "He's already the best QB from that draft!"  "Better rookie season than Brady!"

 

Keep an eye on him when he doesn't have a clean pocket.  Scouts get paid for a reason.  Most pro-ready - lowest ceiling.

 

[Orlando Tim]

23 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Did you watch Kurt?!!! I am biased because the guy is one of my all-time favorite humans in the league, but he had incredible talent. Mac will NEVER be as good as Kurt was.

I love Kurt Warner also and he was a 1 in a billion shot, maybe I should be more specific, to discuss things like that as possible you should truly discuss punt god as OROY candidate

[Big Blitz]

My dark horse MVP candidates:

 

 

Baker

Lawrence 

Hurts 

 

[Billy Claude]

Tannebaum's arguments were all about why the Patriots will do better than people think.  Even if all comes to fruition, it is highly doubtful that Mac Jones will get credit for "two great running backs" or outstanding scheming from Belichek.  In any case, nothing that would usually make people think that the QB is the main reason is their success.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

No reason to compare him to Allen.  He doesn’t think jones will win the mvp, rather is a “dark horse” candidate.
 

The pats are seen as a 💩 team this year by most (other than Tannenbaum).  If things go right for the Pats and they have success and make the playoffs he thinks Jones will be their driving force and the reason for their success.  We may have dominated him last year, but he was still a good QB.  
 

Rodgers won the MVP and didn’t win a playoff game.  Jones doesn’t have to win the SB to be a dark horse candidate.  
 

It’s a hot take in a media world dominated by hot takes 
 

 

Mac Jones played good for a rookie QB asked to manage games.  I dont think he is capable of putting up the stat lines or performances that MVP QBs put up. Especially not with the players and coaches he is surrounded with.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Scott7975

[Process]

People care way too much about crap like this. Specifically Bills fans who are very sensitive.

 

Summer is a dead time for sports. Sports shows run 24/7. They can't spend every second of every day talking about the Rams, Bills, Mahomes and Allen. Controversial and different takes are needed.

[3rdnlng]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

No reason to compare him to Allen.  He doesn’t think jones will win the mvp, rather is a “dark horse” candidate.
 

The pats are seen as a 💩 team this year by most (other than Tannenbaum).  If things go right for the Pats and they have success and make the playoffs he thinks Jones will be their driving force and the reason for their success.  We may have dominated him last year, but he was still a good QB.  
 

Rodgers won the MVP and didn’t win a playoff game.  Jones doesn’t have to win the SB to be a dark horse candidate.  
 

It’s a hot take in a media world dominated by hot takes 
 

Isn't the MVP awarded for regular season play only?

Edited August 20, 2022 by 3rdnlng

[JDubya76]

I’m a dark horse NFL MVP candidate. Just need a couple new knees and of course a shot. I already called Beane, left a message. I feel pretty positive about my chances. 2023 look out.

[2ForMacAdoo]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Tannenbaum should learn how to field a punt first

Hysterical! Saw that on ESPN over and over and over again. What a klutz and an even poorer GM and sports analyst.

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't think he understands the concept of high floor, low ceiling like Alex Smith.

 

Especially when people get to see the difference between him and Josh Allen twice a year. And let's be honest, it's a stark difference in physical talent. Jones is Clark Kent to Allen's Superman and there is no phone booth on the sidelines or locker room for Jones to go in to transform.

 

Couple this with the disaster that will be Patricia and Judge acting as defacto OCs this year and lack of skill position talent still and I find it hard to see how Jones has a better year than he did last year under McDaniels who while potentially being a total douchebag and poor HC, is a pretty damn good OC.

 

He is what he is. A good game manager that doesn't have the physical ability to force teams to respect him the way they do Allen or Mahomes or Herbert.

 

Not saying he can't have a long career and be very successful during the regular season, he can. Chiefs had the best record in the NFL over the near decade that Smith was their QB in the regular season. But we all saw how his lack of physical ability was exposed during the playoffs. Reid didn't win the Super Bowl until Mahomes was his QB.

 

Sure he might have some limited success early on in the playoffs but unless he has an unbelievable team surrounding him like the 2000 Ravens or Broncos had with Peyton Manning, they won't be winning the SB because of him.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ex-nfl-gm-chooses-patriots-qb-mac-jones-sneaky-2022-mvp-pick

This. Pure gold. Beautifully written and the reason Bills mafia has to be super optimistic vis-a-vis our old nemesis.

[Niagara Dude]

Bills fans need to stop looking or caring what the Pats players or fans do & say.  The Bills are now who the Pats were when they had Brady. In those days the Pats and their fans could care less about the Bills and what pundits were saying about them.  

 

They knew they had the best player on the field almost every Sunday & just went out and won games/ titles.  We now have the best QB in the division and they are looking up at us.  Fans need to start acting more confident and not worried about some second rate QB getting talked up by some Patriot lover.

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Lol. I’m not sure he will even be Most Valuable Patriot.  League MVP? He wouldn’t even make me top 30 really got now. 

[Rocky Landing]

So, I watched the Panthers at Pats* last night, and I'm pretty sure I saw this:

Mac & Cheese played in three series-- all against the the Panthers' second string, I believe. In his first two series, they went three and out, and looked like warm dog poo. At the end of the second series, after throwing a truly terrible seven-yard incompletion, I do believe Jones walked back to the sideline crying. Literally wiping away tears. Did anyone else see this? I'm not even sure what to make of it.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

The Patriots and Jones would have to win the division for him to be a true candidate by the end of the season. Pretty much every QB that has won the MVP in the last 15 years, perhaps more has been a #1 or #2 seed. I imagine every single one has at least finished atop their division. Simply making the wild card will not be enough to be a legitimate MVP candidate. 

 

Allen's played well the last two seasons while winning the division each year. While he finished second in MVP voting in 2020, the vote count was not even close. So despite Allen putting up numbers that Mac could probably only dream of AND finishing first in the division two years running Allen still has not been close to winning the MVP by vote count. 

 

On paper it appears the Patriots have taken a step back while the Dolphins have taken a step forward. 

 

……yeah….. which is why he’s a “dark horse” candidate. 
 

He thinks the pats are better than everyone else does.  IF he’s right, he could be a dark horse candidate.  Not the mvp winner, but a dark horse candidate.  

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Mac Jones played good for a rookie QB asked to manage games.  I dont think he is capable of putting up the stat lines or performances that MVP QBs put up. Especially not with the players and coaches he is surrounded with.

I agree

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

Isn't the MVP awarded for regular season play only?

Yes…..I was replying to someone that was implying he would only win the mvp if he had multiple playoff wins or something along those lines. 

[Ghost_002!]

54 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

So, I watched the Panthers at Pats* last night, and I'm pretty sure I saw this:

Mac & Cheese played in three series-- all against the the Panthers' second string, I believe. In his first two series, they went three and out, and looked like warm dog poo. At the end of the second series, after throwing a truly terrible seven-yard incompletion, I do believe Jones walked back to the sideline crying. Literally wiping away tears. Did anyone else see this? I'm not even sure what to make of it.

 

 

Ha ha wow! 😂 

 

He was not crying...are we serious w this? Not the QB can't handle a preseason offense series now...ha ha

 

And I see how you left out his 45/46yr bomb to Alghor on his 3rd series of his 1st preseason game for the season, but ok.

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

9 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Ha ha wow! 😂 

 

He was not crying...are we serious w this? Not the QB can't handle a preseason offense series now...ha ha

 

And I see how you left out his 45/46yr bomb to Alghor on his 3rd series of his 1st preseason game for the season, but ok.

 

 

Go to GamePass and tell me what you see. Maybe he had sunscreen in his eyes-- that might help explain his utterly awkward incompletions.

 

And btw-- that high-arcing, long hang-time lob to Agholor is exactly the kind of pass that earned Micah Hyde a highlight reel interception in the Pats* wildcard round beatdown. That was Jones' calling card in college, and it might fly against a Panthers' second string corner in single man coverage, but it's not going to go so well in the regular season.

 

I hope we see more passes like that this season!

[Alphadawg7]

The year Mahomes won MVP as a first year starter there were threads on this very board laughing at him and mocking him over reports he was throwing a lot of interceptions in camp.  Even mocking choosing him over Alex Smith.  
 

Point is:  Nothing is impossible.  If Pats, who pushed us late for the division crown last year, were to come out and play tough again and make the playoffs, it’s not out of the question that Mac Jones might get some dark horse MVP buzz considering how little talent he has to throw to.  
 

Now…do I think that will happen?  Of course not, that team seems to be lacking too much offensively and they lost some of their core of the defense.  And with their lack of a true OC I think it’s going to cause them even more struggles.  But, at the same time, I think Mac Jones is a good fit in NE for how they want to play and the assumption of his future demise is premature around here.  

 

Does he compare to Allen, of course not, but neither do other QB's around the NFL, even many of the good ones.  Too often the message around here seems to be if you are not on Josh Allens level you don't have a shot at anything, which just isn't true in the NFL.  

 

All that being said, I whole heartedly believe Allen will be the MVP this year and we will be in, and win, the Super Bowl.  

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Ghost_002!]

36 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Go to GamePass and tell me what you see. Maybe he had sunscreen in his eyes-- that might help explain his utterly awkward incompletions.

 

And btw-- that high-arcing, long hang-time lob to Agholor is exactly the kind of pass that earned Micah Hyde a highlight reel interception in the Pats* wildcard round beatdown. That was Jones' calling card in college, and it might fly against a Panthers' second string corner in single man coverage, but it's not going to go so well in the regular season.

 

I hope we see more passes like that this season!

Utter awkward incompletion!? Ha ha

 

micro- analyzing a QB thats not even your own in a preseason game..I tell ya

 

like we still fixated on that interception throw Micah Hyda picked off. It was a good throw just a better defensive play but....

 

Nobody anywhere is even Talking about anymore..

Edited August 20, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[Rocky Landing]

4 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

Utter awkward incompletion!? Ha ha

 

micro- analyzing a QB thats not even your own in a preseason game..I tell ya

 

 

 

like we still fixated on that interception throw Micah Hyda picked off. It was a good throw just a better defensive play but..lets exaggerate..

 

Nobody anywhere is even Talking about anymore..

I guess if you're a Patriots* fan, "looked like warm dog poo" qualifies as "micro-analyzing."

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Belicheat would trade Jones for Herbert is a millisecond.

 

True, but not the point.  And no one here has claimed otherwise.

[Ghost_002!]

12 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I guess if you're a Patriots* fan, "looked like warm dog poo" qualifies as "micro-analyzing."

 

If u are gonna claim someone is crying during their 3 series of play in a preseason game..yea

 

Again we won't acknowledge the 45..46 yard pass completed...."it was too high"

 

[Buffalo716]

32 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

If u are gonna claim someone is crying during their 3 series of play in a preseason game..yea

 

Again we won't acknowledge the 45..46 yard pass completed...."it was too high"

 

You’re on a bills board arguing with Bills fans 

 

Welcome to QB purgatory with Mac Jones

[DCbillsfan]

I think it's possible Jones could be MVP .......of the Patriots. 😉

[Doc]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

True, but not the point.  And no one here has claimed otherwise.

 

You were comparing their records as if to say that making the playoffs was due to Jones and/or failing to make the playoffs was on Herbert.

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You were comparing their records as if to say that making the playoffs was due to Jones and/or failing to make the playoffs was on Herbert.

nope

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't think he understands the concept of high floor, low ceiling like Alex Smith.

 

Especially when people get to see the difference between him and Josh Allen twice a year. And let's be honest, it's a stark difference in physical talent. Jones is Clark Kent to Allen's Superman and there is no phone booth on the sidelines or locker room for Jones to go in to transform.

 

Couple this with the disaster that will be Patricia and Judge acting as defacto OCs this year and lack of skill position talent still and I find it hard to see how Jones has a better year than he did last year under McDaniels who while potentially being a total douchebag and poor HC, is a pretty damn good OC.

 

He is what he is. A good game manager that doesn't have the physical ability to force teams to respect him the way they do Allen or Mahomes or Herbert.

 

Not saying he can't have a long career and be very successful during the regular season, he can. Chiefs had the best record in the NFL over the near decade that Smith was their QB in the regular season. But we all saw how his lack of physical ability was exposed during the playoffs. Reid didn't win the Super Bowl until Mahomes was his QB.

 

Sure he might have some limited success early on in the playoffs but unless he has an unbelievable team surrounding him like the 2000 Ravens or Broncos had with Peyton Manning, they won't be winning the SB because of him.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ex-nfl-gm-chooses-patriots-qb-mac-jones-sneaky-2022-mvp-pick

He was the Jets GM end of story 

[MJS]

7 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Who cares? why do some Bills fans get triggered by anything that is said about the Patriots. This means nothing until he actually has a MVP season on the field,  no different then Allen having a MVP season on the field

Who cares? Why are you triggered by people getting triggered?