Do you take a corner in the first?

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Governor said:

Out of all the silly things fans say that are supposed “givens” ,the one I actually believe is that MCD can do more with less at the CB position due to scheme, coaching, etc.

 

I’d go WR then CB.

 

I do believe that McD (and Frazier) can help a CB succeed with scheme & coaching.   But I don't think scheme & coaching are everything.  The CB has to have natural talent to succeed.  And since it's a passing league, I'd personally like to see upgrade the CB position.  More than the WR position.  CB is our biggest weak spot.

 

 

[Motorin']

7 hours ago, Airseven said:

I don’t think they could pass on Booth at #25. Gordon is a dark horse.

 

I like Taylor-Britt in R2-3.

 

There’s gotta be a CB in the first two days. Probably also a RB and/or surprise LB/S.

 

Gordon might be the best coverage corner in the draft. His 4.5 seems to have dropped his draft stock. But he looks like a guy who plays faster than his 40 time. If he had lowered his combine run by .1 sec bc he had a better track start, he probably would be considered a late 1st rounder.

 

I like Taylor-Britt in the 3rd also, but he may go earlier in the round. 

 

So do you take an "early 2nd" round player late in the first or a 3rd round player in the 2nd? When it's the only position of need you are searching for a starting caliber player?

 

 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I do believe that McD (and Frazier) can help a CB succeed with scheme & coaching.   But I don't think scheme & coaching are everything.  The CB has to have natural talent to succeed.  And since it's a passing league, I'd personally like to see upgrade the CB position.  More than the WR position.  CB is our biggest weak spot.

 

 

Immediate need yes but long term it's debatable as we have long term questions in terms of slot WR and possibly on the outside opposite Diggs, as yes Gabe played great against KC and has shown he can be at times a good #2 but we don't know for sure. Toss in Crowder is only here for a year and we still don't have a guy to handle kick returns that has good hands etc. In this NFL you have to be constantly looking down the road a year or two see when we took Rouseau and Basham, it was in part to replace Hughes and Addison as well as help us last season. Next year we could be looking to replace Crowder or having someone to pair with Davis like we did last year with Sanders.

[Mr. WEO]

35 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Havent heard woolen mentioned in this thread yet.  Just a couple notes.  I think he is the best athlete at the position this year (RAS has him best ever, though no agility scoring).  He has only played the position for 2 years.  Marino says hes very hungry when hes talked to him at combine and on Draft dudes.

 

So hes a player with traits, went to senior bowl, new to position so tons of upside, fits the prototype at the position for Bills, and wants to be coached up (something we say McD is good at).  Its a "reach" but only cause he doesnt quite know how to play the position yet.  If you have confidence he can learn I think he could have a first round grade.  Much of this sounds like Rousseau and I think theres a lot of the signs to say we would be interested at 25.

 

 

 

when you click on that it says his score is 9.7.  Plus his agility was "poor" and so was his strength (bench).

[Greg S]

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

2 Things that I think are very important.

 

1) Your statement Tre will not come back until mid season - where is that coming from.  Sal and the other reporters covering the Bills on a regular basis all say McDermott and Beane have said that he is progressing ahead of schedule.  Sal has repeatedly said that the expectations are he is ready for the first game - although a set back could change that.  I have seen nothing but fans speculating on him missing 1/2 a season.

 

2) You do realize that Dane was our #1 CB for every game after Thanksgiving right and we still ended up with the top passing defense in the NFL.  Dane slid into Tre’s role for the most part allowing Levi to remain in his role and Levi was still the bigger problem.

 

Beane may move up, he may not.  They may think that Dane in that role along with a veteran and Tre coming back is more than enough.  They may think that Tre will be ready Game 1 and that Dane and Cam can fill the roles with help from Johnson and Neal.

 

I think (and everything I have heard from the beat reporters) are the Bills feel they are better at DB than the fans and that there is room for improvement, but that is not the only spot and they might fill with later picks as has been their norm.

 

 

 

I didn't realize Tre was ahead of schedule. Let me first say I am not Doctor so my opinion on this means nothing but the injury Tre suffered was thought it would take a year to recover. I was just going off of that. I am glad Tre is ahead of schedule. Even if he is ready by week 1 it will probably still take him time to get up to the level of play we expect from him since he last played on Thanksgiving. I don't put much into the Bills #1 ranking on defense. Everybody knows they padded their stats against weak offenses and weak QB's When the played against good teams(Titans, Colts, Bucs, Chiefs) and good QB's what happened. Still think CB is the biggest need. I don't know how the board will fall as their are usually surprises on draft night but I expect the Bills to take a CB in Rd 1.

[Max Fischer]

This may be the most comfortable I've been with a draft. Other than the glaring hole at CB, just about every other pick allows the Bills to provide added depth.  Personally, I believe the Bills will have a veteran CB on the roster by draft day, which could provide further flexibility. If the Bills took three CBs, three OL, and the punter Araiza in the 3rd, I think I'd be perfectly fine. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Absolutely not.

 

Our WR group has to get better. 

[TheBrownBear]

BPA all day.

[Bangarang]

If a CB is BPA then absolutely.

[smuvtalker]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

What are you planning to give up for this - Holy Cow.  Sauce is going top 10 and most likely top 5 - so are you giving up the next couple 1st 2023/and 2024.  All of our picks in this draft and a 1 next year don’t get us high enough to get to 5.

 

There is almost no way to move up and get Sauce and still have a 2nd round pick to grab Watson.

 

I love the idea of Gardner, but I don’t care how aggressive your GM is moving from 25 to 5 is reckless and will hurt you badly for years to come.  Rather draft Booth in the 20’s and have ammo to draft several other good players to offset the price we are paying now.

 

 

You'll get no argument out of me.  I posted the same sentiment in another thread yesterday, because an article in the Syracuse Post Standard had a mock draft that had us trading up with the Giants for their 1st rounder at #7, and had us only giving up our 1st this year, our 3rd this year, and next year's 1st and 5th rounders.  In my opinion that trade seemed too light.  To jump 18 spots I believe it would take much more than a swap of 1sts, our 3rd, and a 1st and 5th next year....if the Giants made that trade I imagine they'd purchase one London as well..

[SCBills]

As much as I prefer WR at 25, if Booth is there, I wouldn't hate it.  The guy has some elite traits. 

 

Outside of Booth, give me a WR or OL.  

[CapeBreton]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

As much as I prefer WR at 25, if Booth is there, I wouldn't hate it.  The guy has some elite traits. 

 

Outside of Booth, give me a WR or OL.  

Would be pretty awesome if Booth is there at 25, and it’s definitely possible. I expect we’ll wait on WR, similar to when the Bills waited on Gabriel Davis. Lots of good WR later in the draft and I feel like it makes sense to grab CB early. 

[muppy]

2 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

BPA is very minunderstood

BPA is Very open to interpretation CLEARLY or 17 would have never lasted to our pick #7 right? tck. Its a gamble any way you wanna stack it people. We wish it was an exact science lol

 

m

[BigAl2526]

I'm fine with taking a corner in round 1, but it will depend on how the first round falls.  The best ones will be gone.  Derek Stingley has the athleticism and skill  set, though he's had injury issues and hasn't been as productive recently.  Sauce Gardner is probably the first corner off the board.  Then there's a second tier that includes Andrew Booth Trent McDuffie and Kaiir Elam In all likelihood a couple of them will be gone.  It's possible one of them will still be on the board.  I'd be comfortable with any of the three.  If all three are gone, I don't think the next tier represents good value at #25.  Roger McCreary and Kyler Gordon are a couple names here.  They are good corners, but I think they are second round values.  I don't want Buffalo picking one from that group at #25.  I would not object to trading out of the first round at that point and taking one in the top 10 of round 2.  Otherwise, they should look for BPA at a position where they don't have a lot of need and try to get a CB in round 2 or 3.

[TheBeaneBandit]

22 minutes ago, SCBills said:

As much as I prefer WR at 25, if Booth is there, I wouldn't hate it.  The guy has some elite traits. 

 

Outside of Booth, give me a WR or OL.  

This is exactly where I'm at. 

[Einstein's Dog]

20 minutes ago, muppy said:

BPA is Very open to interpretation CLEARLY or 17 would have never lasted to our pick #7 right? tck. Its a gamble any way you wanna stack it people. We wish it was an exact science lol

 

m

And generally what people mean are BPA at a premium position of need.  We want a good player at an expensive position that can be worked into the lineup quickly.

 

That eliminates QB for instance (please reference Green Bays debacle for not adhering to this), and this year, for us, DL (for a change).  That's why most people talk about the CBs and WRs (and IOL but in the second or third).  Right now spots are kept open for Wallace's old CB spot and Sanders/Gabe WR spot (the 3rd outside WR which hasn't been filled).

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Beane is a BPA guy. Who ever is the highest OL, DL, LB or DB maybe wr but doubtful (safety or outside corner) is what he’ll do. 

No he isn't. He is the exact opposite of BPA.

[DasNootz]

If Gardner, Stingley, McDuffie and Booth are all already taken, I think you go another avenue with 25.  If one of them is available, It's likely  a perfect fit of BPA and position of need. 

If the Bills go WR/OL/LB in the first, I expect them to move up and take  a shot at McCreary or Elam, Gordon or take a chance Woolen at 57.

Edited April 7, 2022 by DasNootz

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

2 Things that I think are very important.

 

1) Your statement Tre will not come back until mid season - where is that coming from.  Sal and the other reporters covering the Bills on a regular basis all say McDermott and Beane have said that he is progressing ahead of schedule.  Sal has repeatedly said that the expectations are he is ready for the first game - although a set back could change that.  I have seen nothing but fans speculating on him missing 1/2 a season.

 

2) You do realize that Dane was our #1 CB for every game after Thanksgiving right and we still ended up with the top passing defense in the NFL.  Dane slid into Tre’s role for the most part allowing Levi to remain in his role and Levi was still the bigger problem.

 

Beane may move up, he may not.  They may think that Dane in that role along with a veteran and Tre coming back is more than enough.  They may think that Tre will be ready Game 1 and that Dane and Cam can fill the roles with help from Johnson and Neal.

 

I think (and everything I have heard from the beat reporters) are the Bills feel they are better at DB than the fans and that there is room for improvement, but that is not the only spot and they might fill with later picks as has been their norm.

 

 

I agree mid season is a bit exaggerated, but I wouldnt be surprised if he started on the PUP.  Thats 6 games right there.  He may be ahead of schedule but that means to me that hes trending towards a nine month recovery (9-12 months typicall).  That means hes available in Sept.  I would rather be cautious and put him on the PUP to start the season as end of the season is more important.

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

when you click on that it says his score is 9.7.  Plus his agility was "poor" and so was his strength (bench).

Appreciate that thank you.  I would still say 9.7 is very high.  Strength is not in the prototype for Bills at the position so not worried about that (particularly with his arm length).  Looking at some of the McD/Beane picks at CB agility doesnt seem to particularly critical.  Tre, Josh Norman, James Bradberry, and Daryl Worley are all okay or poor at agility.  Again really appreciate you showing me the other scores!

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

2 Things that I think are very important.

 

1) Your statement Tre will not come back until mid season - where is that coming from.  Sal and the other reporters covering the Bills on a regular basis all say McDermott and Beane have said that he is progressing ahead of schedule.  Sal has repeatedly said that the expectations are he is ready for the first game - although a set back could change that.  I have seen nothing but fans speculating on him missing 1/2 a season.

 

2) You do realize that Dane was our #1 CB for every game after Thanksgiving right and we still ended up with the top passing defense in the NFL.  Dane slid into Tre’s role for the most part allowing Levi to remain in his role and Levi was still the bigger problem.

 

Beane may move up, he may not.  They may think that Dane in that role along with a veteran and Tre coming back is more than enough.  They may think that Tre will be ready Game 1 and that Dane and Cam can fill the roles with help from Johnson and Neal.

 

I think (and everything I have heard from the beat reporters) are the Bills feel they are better at DB than the fans and that there is room for improvement, but that is not the only spot and they might fill with later picks as has been their norm.

 

 

Interesting points Rochester Fan.  I think the Bills do not value lockdown corners as much as some teams do.  But regardless of where we get one, I think a 3rd boundary corner with Athleticism would be helpful for this year, and years to come.  That being said, if the Bills really want to improve their defense they need to be better at LB.  Milano is good, but not ultra special.  Edmunds is our weak link on the defense.  I dare say that Dane Jackson has a potentially higher ceiling at his position then Edmunds has at LB.  He has been playing for 4 years, and still has below average instincts for the position.  The Bills would do well to trade Edmunds if they can, and draft his replacement in the first 2-3 rounds.  Mediocrity is the best you are going to get from Tremaine Edmunds.  Anyone who disagrees is not watching him and the Bills defense closely.  I like Dane Jackson.  He seems to have good if not great athleticism.  He could become a solid starter for us.  But injuries happen.  I think if we can trade Edmunds and (throw in Moss for that matter) for decent picks, we can draft CB, LB, WR and RB in the first 3 rounds, and the draft would be a success.   

[damj]

I would want to get a CB and an outside WR in the first 2 picks. I would go CB unless I really think there's enough depth at the position to get someone who can play and contribute from day 1. Outside WR is for depth behind Diggs & Davis, so I think CB is more important, but if there is better value at WR I'm okay, as long as we definitely go CB in round 2, and maybe round 3

 

I do think though that Beane will still sign one or two veteran CBs. I wouldn't be surprised to see one signed before the draft so he has more flexibility in the draft

[Straight Hucklebuck]

BPA is a myth. 

 

 

[smuvtalker]

7 hours ago, Yantha said:

I'd take a corner if the board shaped up that way in the first.

 

Really depends on who might slip down to 25.  There are players in our first round BIG BOARD that I'd take over a corner.  I agree that corner is a huge need, but at the same time, I think we should have addressed this need a bit more in FA.

 

Do we really want to make a serious superbowl challenge with ANY rookie corner matching up against a seasoned vet, playoff-caliber WR?

 

Corners need developing, even the best draftees.

You make a very good point about rookie CB's lining up against seasoned, pro bowl caliber WR's, which is what I envision with us, seeing as though we'll most likely

be playing in January for years to come. And the only CB's in this draft I feel could do that year one with minimal developing are the big 4, Gardner, Stingley, McDuffie, and Booth.  Even if you factor in players slipping due to runs at other positions, reaches, and head-scratchers, I fear all 4 may be gone by pick #25.  If we do go CB round 1, then Beane may have no choice but to trade up to have to go get our guy, which I'm totally okay with.  If he stays put my head says we go WR, which I believe a very attractive option will still be available to us (Williams).

[coloradobillsfan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

BPA is a myth. 

I'm tired of hearing it too.  What if BPA is a QB?  You always have to consider what you need

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

BPA is a myth. 

 

 

No. It’s not.

[FarrellsFinest]

Kinda have to take a CB first. I would love a WR tho. But CB falls off so bad after the first 4 guys.

[ndirish1978]

I'd take any of the top 6 corners in the 1st. I'd trade up a bit in the second to get 7-8. Other than that I'd just wait til the 3rd.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Interesting points Rochester Fan.  I think the Bills do not value lockdown corners as much as some teams do.  But regardless of where we get one, I think a 3rd boundary corner with Athleticism would be helpful for this year, and years to come.  That being said, if the Bills really want to improve their defense they need to be better at LB.  Milano is good, but not ultra special.  Edmunds is our weak link on the defense.  I dare say that Dane Jackson has a potentially higher ceiling at his position then Edmunds has at LB.  He has been playing for 4 years, and still has below average instincts for the position.  The Bills would do well to trade Edmunds if they can, and draft his replacement in the first 2-3 rounds.  Mediocrity is the best you are going to get from Tremaine Edmunds.  Anyone who disagrees is not watching him and the Bills defense closely.  I like Dane Jackson.  He seems to have good if not great athleticism.  He could become a solid starter for us.  But injuries happen.  I think if we can trade Edmunds and (throw in Moss for that matter) for decent picks, we can draft CB, LB, WR and RB in the first 3 rounds, and the draft would be a success.   

My disdain for Edmunds is well documented but I don't understand the enthusiasm for Jackson? What has he really done to warrant a positive or negative opinion of him. At best he is an unknown. He couldn't beat out Wallace. I dont recall any great plays after he went in for White but I don't recall thinking he was playing terribly either.

If he was the fourth corner with White, a rookie first round pick, and Haden I'd be happy.

[Vickveto]

56 minutes ago, FarrellsFinest said:

Kinda have to take a CB first. I would love a WR tho. But CB falls off so bad after the first 4 guys.

I don’t believe that at all Tariq Woolen finished with a perfect RAS score and great senior bowl. I love Jalen Pitre  straight playmaker. Kalon Barnes legit 4.2 speed we could use him against Miami. Lastly I don’t think booth is a 1 round lock he has injury concerns. He could go as late as the middle of the second.

[mjt328]

14 hours ago, Locomark said:

I have run 100 mocks on at least 5 different sites and there won’t be a starting CB2 available if you wait beyond early round 2. So if they don’t pick it in Round 1, Bills must use assets to move way up in Round 2. 85% of the top 32 CBs in the league are round 1 draftees, so the whole narrative that we can draft some guy in later rounds and McD them into a really good corner is not supported by data. Picking BPA is what you do when you are building a good roster or depth. When you have a glaring need to win a Super Bowl, you fill that need at all costs, even if it means you have 4 guys rated better. 

 

Not sure where you came up with the 85% stat.

 

I looked at the current CB depth charts around the league, and that number should be around 25-30% (depending on if you count nickel guys as starters).   Many teams still find starting corners into the 2nd, and sometimes the 3rd Round, depending on how deep a particular class is.  It's definitely pretty sketchy after that point.

 

I'll agree on the mock draft point.  I've also gone through multiple, and have NEVER seen the consensus Top 4 guys (Derek Stingley, Sauce Gardner, Andrew Booth, Trent McDuffie) make it to our pick.  Most of the time we are looking at Kair Elam/Roger McDuffie or going with another position.  And most of the time, the BPA at #25 is a wide receiver.

Until April 28 comes and goes, I truly believe that Brandon Beane will sign a veteran CB who can give us the ability to go BPA.

Reaching for need is always a mistake.  Moving away from the BPA strategy is one of the reasons most teams only contend for 2-3 seasons before falling off. 

 

 

[mabden]

I would think in order to get a top (starts day one) corner, the Bills would move up in the draft, willing partner dependant.

Otherwise, BPA of either WR or CB. 

 

Then in 2nd rd, CB or WR.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

No. It’s not.

Yes it is.  You can spin it any way you want but Beane and just about every other teams drafts for need.  

White, Allen, Edmunds, Knox, Rousseau, Ford, Oliver and to some degree Bass and Moss were all need picks. In every case there was an open roster spot to fill for each of them.

I think in the middle rounds you may have an argument.  Davis, Singletary, and Brown were all solid picks that added depth but there was not an obvious need addressed.

[Aurelius]

I truly feel that of the Bills stay at 25, which they probably will, the’ll ask themselves who they can’t turn down at that spot.  I honestly think it may be a surprise and not a corner first depending on who’s available . 
 

They can easily get 2 very good corners after the first round pick.  Look where Tre’ was drafted and how the many corners chosen have panned out.  It’s not a sure thing call.  Not sure they draft a CB with the 25th spot if their premier choices are off the board. 

[wppete]

I think if McDuffie or Andrew Booth are on the board we have to take one of them. 

[BfloBillsFan]

While some positions can be updated, the second CB spot is the only open starting spot so I definitely would go corner.  WR and LB are two other positions I would consider

 

[Success]

We have too many picks already - I'd be thrilled if they traded up to get the top CB on their board.

 

 

[billieve420]

CB/WR in whatever order based on BPA is good with me. If they take Olineman with either pick will be Ok with that as well.

[Augie]

18 hours ago, Billsfanatixs said:

   I was interested to know if anyone has a position preferance year to year (Need for Franchise QB not included)? Mine was never draft or WR or DB in the first round because those positions in the 90' and probably up to the early 2000's where positions that took time to develope.

We spent high picks to develope player who became amazing by thier 4th year and we couldn't afford that luxery.

 

Just wondering if any of you felt the same way, these positions are way more pro ready TODAY and you spend a day 1 pick to get results during most of the rookie contract?

 

Remember all those soon to be probowl WR and Corners that left the year of thier prime? To me I saw the meat head O-line & D-line guys were the "stick around type" some were really hard to get rid of lol. The Diva WR and Corners were off getting paid. (Not that is anything wrong with that).

 

All that being said, is a 1st round corner a good idea? Starting to think so, interested in other ideas

 

It’s a passing league. After you get the QB, you need the WR, and the CB to contain the WR. Then you need the Edge rusher to get after the QB, and the LT to stymie the edge rusher. I have just named the five highest paid positions on the Bills roster. Better to get them “cheap” for 4-5 years in the draft than go out and pay thru the nose for FA’s. 

 

Tre White was a fine pick in the first. Quality WR’s often contribute immediately. Get the most important positions filled with the best (and cheapest) players you can get. 

[BillsShredder83]

12 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

It is our biggest need. Tre isn't supposed to come back until mid season. When he does it will take time to get back up to the level we are used to seeing from him. He hasn't played since last Thanksgiving. No training camp, no preseason, and missing the first couple of months of the season. Right now Dane Jackson is our #1 CB. No disrespect to Dane but he can't be our #1. CB is a need and I think that is where the Bills will go in Rd 1. I wouldn't be surprised if Beane tries to move up if there is a player he really wants and doesn't think he will be there at 25.

All time frames I've seen are between late training camp, and 4 games in. I'm not the type to rush him back, but we're a dangerous team without. If we think we can go 3-1 or even 2-2, I'm not worried about him being back right away.

 

I still want to snag the best CB we can, but I think this means we don't have to be wreckless taking a need over a few BPA guys we have rated much higher

[Alphadawg7]

We need corners so bad we probably should take 2 in the first four rounds.  Thats how bare our cupboard is at CB right now.  If we dont take one in the first, then I its practically 100% we take one in the 2nd.  And if we shockingly pass on a CB again, I bet we take 2 in a row in 3rd and 4th.

 

Beane does love taking the BPA, so when we take one I am sure has a lot to do with how the draft falls too.  But I think the most likely pick in the first is a CB for obvious reasons.  And I do expect at least 2 taken in the draft.

 

Now if we sign someone or trade for someone ahead of the draft, that would obviously change things.