Do you take a corner in the first?

[Alphadawg7]

44 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So you can only fill a need with a first round pick?  Sorry. Not buying it. If there isn’t a corner worth a first round pick, do you still take one?

I really can’t stand this argument. Crowder and Howard are on cheap one year deals. There is NOTHING there that should preclude them from taking a WR if there is one they like. 
 

I don’t agree with you or anyone on corner in round 1. You can’t reach for need and I think Beane likes Jackson a lot. We can get a pretty good corner in the mid rounds. 

 

Who said anything about reaching?  Why do people just jump to "reaching" when someone suggests it would be good to take a CB in the first round?  Literally no one has said that what so ever, nor does anyone expect Beane to reach.  This thread is not about should we "reach" its about whether we should take a CB if the right one is there.  

 

And you cant stand the argument that CB is a bigger need than WR?  Really?  No disrespect, but how does that make any sense today with the roster the way it is?

 

Diggs, Davis, and McKenzie here 2 or more years still.  Crowder locking down a spot this year too.  But at CB we don't have a single starter...just last years backup being forced to start because Levi left.  And Tre, while an all pro player, is a question mark on when he will be back and how he will play once back.  Plus we have no backups behind them either.  

 

But you hate this argument that CB is a bigger need?  I really dont get that, I mean we averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs and lost on defense.  

 

I mean look what we are facing this year...just in our division, who is covering Hill and Waddle?  Not mention the gauntlet that is the AFC West, Titans Duo of Woods and AJ Brown (another nemesis of ours), Bengals gauntlet of receivers, etc.  

 

So while no one expects Beane to reach, taking a CB in the first absolutely makes sense if there is one there they feel is the right guy.  

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Who said anything about reaching?  Why do people just jump to "reaching" when someone suggests it would be good to take a CB in the first round?  Literally no one has said that what so ever, nor does anyone expect Beane to reach.  This thread is not about should we "reach" its about whether we should take a CB if the right one is there.  

 

And you cant stand the argument that CB is a bigger need than WR?  Really?  No disrespect, but how does that make any sense today with the roster the way it is?

 

Diggs, Davis, and McKenzie here 2 or more years still.  Crowder locking down a spot this year too.  But at CB we don't have a single starter...just last years backup being forced to start because Levi left.  And Tre, while an all pro player, is a question mark on when he will be back and how he will play once back.  Plus we have no backups behind them either.  

 

But you hate this argument that CB is a bigger need?  I really dont get that, I mean we averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs and lost on defense.  

 

I mean look what we are facing this year...just in our division, who is covering Hill and Waddle?  Not mention the gauntlet that is the AFC West, Titans Duo of Woods and AJ Brown (another nemesis of ours), Bengals gauntlet of receivers, etc.  

 

So while no one expects Beane to reach, taking a CB in the first absolutely makes sense if there is one there they feel is the right guy.  

My argument is about taking a corner in 1. There are other rounds to get a CB2. Do you really think anyone can guard both Hill and Waddle?  If so, good for you. 
 

The Chiefs have been daring teams to keep up with them on offense for years and it’s worked for them with just a serviceable defense. We have a top 5 unit right now, even if we

make no more moves. 
 

We lost those 13 seconds due to absolutely atrocious coaching decisions. That’s a fact. They literally didn’t do anything right in that time. And you also conveniently forget about the long stretch in the regular season where our offense fell flat on its face. We had no protection, Singletary was (and still is) slow, and Allen was basically doing everything on his own. The offense cost us a higher seed in the playoffs by putting up 6 points against the Jags. 
 

Believe what you wanna believe…I’ll do the same. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I literally didn't say any of those things.  

 

Josh is setup to succeed, they improved the OL, brought in a dangerous slot weapon in Crowder, extended Diggs, added OJ Howard.  I mean you are delusional if you don't think the offense has been upgraded this year already, an offense that averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs and still got bounced.  

 

And we upgraded our pass rush in Miller, but we are MISSING our TWO starting corners from last year.  We have no starters on our roster ready for week 1.  We have a BACKUP CB we HOPE can be relied upon to start even though he was absued by the Chiefs in the playoffs last year.  We have an all pro recovering from a bad injury that may not have him ready to start the season, and even if he is, could take part of or even all of the season to rebound back to his previous form.  

 

Again, you absolutely incorrect that CB isn't a bigger need than something on offense.  We will absolutely draft some offense, and we could round 1.  Beane will stay true to his BPA I expect, so if there is not a corner they covet at 25, he wont reach and he will take another position.  But, to say CB is not the biggest need is beyond ridiculous.  

 

 

What did they do to improve the personnel on their OL that allowed 125 combined pressures/sacks? 

 

Saffold is a step back in pass protection and can't play tackle like Williams in the event of Brown being sidelined with back issues again.

 

They simply saved some money swapping Williams out for Saffold......but took on more age and injury risk in Saffold.

 

There is a better chance that the much younger and better player in Tre White comes back and plays a full slate of games at high quality than there is that Saffold plays at a high level for 17+playoffs.

 

 Saffold is a guy you can count on as a half season starter, IMO.  This years version Emmanuel Sanders.........but with the terrible Cody Ford as his backup not a promising young vet like Gabe Davis.

 

And they are missing one starting CB.......Levi Wallace.   Dane Jackson was the starter during the best stretch of the Bills season.......December and January.

 

He is as good of a starting CB in this system as Ryan Bates is a guard.......he literally started more games than Bates yet you say that Josh Allen is setup to succeed with Bates and Jackson doesn't even count as a starter?

 

Dane Jackson put up 41 tackles and his 70 passer rating allowed was lower than two of Tre White's season ratings in his career.    He can start and play well in the Bills system.

 

I get the concern but you are clearly in panic mode about something they've always done well enough to rank among the best in the league........pass defense...........and whistling past the graveyard that is the OL as a whole and their depth at WR...........positions where weakness has undermined them on a broad scale.......ENTIRE SEASONS.........not just one game each year.   

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

My argument is about taking a corner in 1. There are other rounds to get a CB2. Do you really think anyone can guard both Hill and Waddle?  If so, good for you. 
 

The Chiefs have been daring teams to keep up with them on offense for years and it’s worked for them with just a serviceable defense. We have a top 5 unit right now, even if we

make no more moves. 
 

We lost those 13 seconds due to absolutely atrocious coaching decisions. That’s a fact. They literally didn’t do anything right in that time. And you also conveniently forget about the long stretch in the regular season where our offense fell flat on its face. We had no protection, Singletary was (and still is) slow, and Allen was basically doing everything on his own. The offense cost us a higher seed in the playoffs by putting up 6 points against the Jags. 
 

Believe what you wanna believe…I’ll do the same. 

What about the 64 yard TD to Hill before that that out us behind again with just over a minute left to play needing a TD?  Or the drive in OT?  We gave up 42 points and 17 points in under 3 minutes to end game.  We scored 36 points…who was worse?  Clearly the defense again
 

Also, the majority of the best WRs in football were not taken in the first round.  Hill, Adam’s, Diggs, Kupp (arguably 4 of the top 5 playing), Deebo, Metcalf, AJ Brown we’re all taken in other rounds.  Not to mention top end WRs like Keenan Allen, McLaurin and so many more.  This notion we need a first round WR (when we have one the best WR corps in the league) is really not based on historical data.  
 

And we all know our top flight D last year statistically was padded through and easy schedule.  They didn’t always look so top flight against the better offenses we faced.  And now we don’t have our two starting corners from that defense either to start the year potentially.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I don’t take anyone. But if I did I wouldn’t pigeon hole myself to one position no matter the need. 

[PetermansRedemption]

Yes

[whorlnut]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What about the 64 yard TD to Hill before that that out us behind again with just over a minute left to play needing a TD?  Or the drive in OT?  We gave up 42 points and 17 points in under 3 minutes to end game.  We scored 36 points…who was worse?  Clearly the defense again
 

Also, the majority of the best WRs in football were not taken in the first round.  Hill, Adam’s, Diggs, Kupp (arguably 4 of the top 5 playing), Deebo, Metcalf, AJ Brown we’re all taken in other rounds.  Not to mention top end WRs like Keenan Allen, McLaurin and so many more.  This notion we need a first round WR (when we have one the best WR corps in the league) is really not based on historical data.  
 

And we all know our top flight D last year statistically was padded through and easy schedule.  They didn’t always look so top flight against the better offenses we faced.  And now we don’t have our two starting corners from that defense either to start the year potentially.

I’m not arguing with you or anyone. Nothing will change my mind. You can continue to think a “stud” corner will take plays like that away. That’s your opinion. Whatever. 
 

The bottom like is “alpha” that no defense looks good against top offenses these days. Did you see Ramsey look lost in the super bowl against stud receivers?  

Edited April 9, 2022 by whorlnut

[Buffalo Ballin]

CB. Corner. Defense.

 

Remember that Stefon Diggs came in the 5th round.

Gabriel Davis was in the 4th round.

 

I do not worry about WR. There are plenty of them.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

CB. Corner. Defense.

 

Remember that Stefon Diggs came in the 5th round.

Gabriel Davis was in the 4th round.

 

I do not worry about WR. There are plenty of them.

 

Offensive Line.  Wide Receiver.  Offense.

 

Remember that.....the Bills had the #1 ranked pass defense in 2021 despite being only 10th in sacks.

 

Levi Wallace came undrafted.

Dane Jackson came 6th round.

Taron Johnson was in the 4th round.

Jordan Poyer 7th round.

Micah Hyde 5th round.

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't worry about the secondary.......there are plenty of them..........if where they were drafted is your rationale.

[Alphadawg7]

55 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I’m not arguing with you or anyone. Nothing will change my mind. You can continue to think a “stud” corner will take plays like that away. That’s your opinion. Whatever. 
 

The bottom like is “alpha” that no defense looks good against top offenses these days. Did you see Ramsey look lost in the super bowl against stud receivers?  

First off, no one’s arguing, we are simply discussing something.  
 

Why were the Bengals in the Super Bowl?  Because they shut down the Chiefs offense in the 2nd half.  
 

Rams defense came up big to end the SB too, and coverage took the receivers away so they could get the big sacks.

 

Niners shut down Dallas and Green Bay’s offense too and almost made the SB with Jimmy G as their QB for second time in 3 years, and might have made it had Tarrt not dropped that gimme Int in the 4th.  
 

Chiefs got blown up by Bucs defense in the previous SB.  
 

Vaunted Rams offense was held to 3 points in the SB against the Pats.  
 

Highest scoring offense in NFL history was blown out 43-8 in the Broncos vs Seahawks SB.  
 

Previous highest scoring offense in NFL history went undefeated and lost scoring in the teens in the Pats vs Giants SB.  
 

Greatest show on turf had their offense slowed down and lost to the Pats in the SB.

 

I mean I could keep going with endless of examples that factually refute this notion you can’t slow down the top offenses.  
 

We averaged 41.5 points per game in the playoffs this year.  We were sent home because we gave up 42 points in the last game including 17 points in less than 3 minutes.  
 

And you don’t think having Tre White against the Chiefs would have made a difference in that game?  Really?  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

My argument is about taking a corner in 1. There are other rounds to get a CB2. Do you really think anyone can guard both Hill and Waddle?  If so, good for you. 
 

 

 

Yes he and others literally expect rookie corners who are posting high 4.3's-low 4.5's out of pads to come in and shut down the probably fastest receiver......if not player.........in NFL history.

 

It's not going to happen.........and the Bills aren't about to move out of zone coverage and into man to find that out.

 

That being the case..........you don't NEED a first round cover corner talent.  

 

The Bills are still going to try to get QB's to make lot's of small plays to move the ball and hope to cause mistakes with their pass rush.......or wait for teams to simply make execution errors..........that is the style of defense.

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What did they do to improve the personnel on their OL that allowed 125 combined pressures/sacks? 

 

Saffold is a step back in pass protection and can't play tackle like Williams in the event of Brown being sidelined with back issues again.

 

They simply saved some money swapping Williams out for Saffold......but took on more age and injury risk in Saffold.

 

There is a better chance that the much younger and better player in Tre White comes back and plays a full slate of games at high quality than there is that Saffold plays at a high level for 17+playoffs.

 

 Saffold is a guy you can count on as a half season starter, IMO.  This years version Emmanuel Sanders.........but with the terrible Cody Ford as his backup not a promising young vet like Gabe Davis.

 

And they are missing one starting CB.......Levi Wallace.   Dane Jackson was the starter during the best stretch of the Bills season.......December and January.

 

He is as good of a starting CB in this system as Ryan Bates is a guard.......he literally started more games than Bates yet you say that Josh Allen is setup to succeed with Bates and Jackson doesn't even count as a starter?

 

Dane Jackson put up 41 tackles and his 70 passer rating allowed was lower than two of Tre White's season ratings in his career.    He can start and play well in the Bills system.

 

I get the concern but you are clearly in panic mode about something they've always done well enough to rank among the best in the league........pass defense...........and whistling past the graveyard that is the OL as a whole and their depth at WR...........positions where weakness has undermined them on a broad scale.......ENTIRE SEASONS.........not just one game each year.   

Yet our vaunted passing defense got abused 2 years in a row in the post season to send us home.  Meanwhile our offense scored 41.5 points per game.  But keep telling me how the offense is the problem 🙄

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes he and others literally expect rookie corners who are posting high 4.3's-low 4.5's out of pads to come in and shut down the probably fastest receiver......if not player.........in NFL history.

 

It's not going to happen.........and the Bills aren't about to move out of zone coverage and into man to find that out.

 

That being the case..........you don't NEED a first round cover corner talent.  

 

The Bills are still going to try to get QB's to make lot's of small plays to move the ball and hope to cause mistakes with their pass rush.......or wait for teams to simply make execution errors..........that is the style of defense.

 

Literally nobody has said any of what you just said everyone’s saying.  Lmao

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yet our vaunted passing defense got abused 2 years in a row in the post season to send us home.  Meanwhile our offense scored 41.5 points per game.  But keep telling me how the offense is the problem 🙄

 

You simply don't care about protecting and preserving the franchise QB............clearly not the top priority to you.

 

The Bills offense lost 3 conference games in a 5 game stretch and scored less than 20 in all of them in October and November...........prior to turning Josh Allen into a battering ram to combat their league worst kinda' pass blocking OL.

 

He can't be expected to run 11, 12, 15 times per game again.........that number needs to be more like 2-5 times........MAX. 

 

Otherwise the franchise QB is going to end up like Cam Newton.........a shelf life like the Seattle Legion of Boom defense instead of 20 years like modern franchise QB's.

 

The Josh Allen is "set up to succeed"nonsense is 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Literally nobody has said any of what you just said everyone’s saying.  Lmao

 

 

Only because you know it's too ridiculous to post.  

 

Instead you keep VERY VAGUE how this plan is going to alter the outcomes of the Bills defense against fast AFC offenses.

 

Basically it's a world of make believe where throwing the highest possible draft picks at a position automatically makes it better..

 

Whether it represents value or makes sense to invest that much into this specific scheme or not..........and ignoring issues that much more directly affect the health and productivity of the most important player on the team.........that QB.

[Buffalo Ballin]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Offensive Line.  Wide Receiver.  Offense.

 

Remember that.....the Bills had the #1 ranked pass defense in 2021 despite being only 10th in sacks.

 

Levi Wallace came undrafted.

Dane Jackson came 6th round.

Taron Johnson was in the 4th round.

Jordan Poyer 7th round.

Micah Hyde 5th round.

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't worry about the secondary.......there are plenty of them..........if where they were drafted is your rationale.

 13 seconds, remember? So much for our number one defense.

Relax. As long as we have Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, and Knox healthy, we're ok. We have no probs getting first downs. A good defense is incredibly difficult to put together AND to keep together long term.

 

A WR will be drafted LATER in the draft.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Buffalo Ballin

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yet our vaunted passing defense got abused 2 years in a row in the post season to send us home.  Meanwhile our offense scored 41.5 points per game.  But keep telling me how the offense is the problem 🙄

Never said the offense was a problem. I said we need to keep adding to the offense. It’s foolish to think a first round corner will be the last missing piece that will make a number one defense unstoppable. 🙄

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He can't be expected to run 11, 12, 15 times per game again.........that number needs to be more like 2-5 times........MAX.

 

I don't think you're ever going to limit Josh to 2-5 times per game.  That's just not how he's wired.

 

Career, he's 6.9 attempts per game with a low of 6.4 (2020) and a high of 7.4

 

 

[whorlnut]

50 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You simply don't care about protecting and preserving the franchise QB............clearly not the top priority to you.

 

The Bills offense lost 3 conference games in a 5 game stretch and scored less than 20 in all of them in October and November...........prior to turning Josh Allen into a battering ram to combat their league worst kinda' pass blocking OL.

 

He can't be expected to run 11, 12, 15 times per game again.........that number needs to be more like 2-5 times........MAX. 

 

Otherwise the franchise QB is going to end up like Cam Newton.........a shelf life like the Seattle Legion of Boom defense instead of 20 years like modern franchise QB's.

 

The Josh Allen is "set up to succeed"nonsense is 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. It’s completely laughable to me that ANYONE thinks a first round corner is more important than helping the best player in the game. I can’t take trying to reason with these people anymore. 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Offensive Line.  Wide Receiver.  Offense.

 

Remember that.....the Bills had the #1 ranked pass defense in 2021 despite being only 10th in sacks.

 

Levi Wallace came undrafted.

Dane Jackson came 6th round.

Taron Johnson was in the 4th round.

Jordan Poyer 7th round.

Micah Hyde 5th round.

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't worry about the secondary.......there are plenty of them..........if where they were drafted is your rationale.

Exactly. Literally EVER single argument the cornerback crew brings up can be turned right around and thrown directly in their faces. It’s kinda funny…

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What about the 64 yard TD to Hill before that that out us behind again with just over a minute left to play needing a TD?  Or the drive in OT?  We gave up 42 points and 17 points in under 3 minutes to end game.  We scored 36 points…who was worse?  Clearly the defense again
 

Also, the majority of the best WRs in football were not taken in the first round.  Hill, Adam’s, Diggs, Kupp (arguably 4 of the top 5 playing), Deebo, Metcalf, AJ Brown we’re all taken in other rounds.  Not to mention top end WRs like Keenan Allen, McLaurin and so many more.  This notion we need a first round WR (when we have one the best WR corps in the league) is really not based on historical data.  
 

And we all know our top flight D last year statistically was padded through and easy schedule.  They didn’t always look so top flight against the better offenses we faced.  And now we don’t have our two starting corners from that defense either to start the year potentially.

Agree 100%. The top need for the Bills is a CB. It's a glaring need that's undeniable. The argument that a CB can be drafted later can be easily said about a WR. If a CB is closely graded to any other position the Bills should absolutely take a CB at pick 25. I do think Beane may add a atop gap veteran CB. If so, that my lead to a highly rated CB in the 2nd round. Its a hypothetical at this point. With that said, the CB has to be addressed ASAP. 

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think you're ever going to limit Josh to 2-5 times per game.  That's just not how he's wired.

 

Career, he's 6.9 attempts per game with a low of 6.4 (2020) and a high of 7.4

 

 

 

Never?

 

Well that will be a very short career as a franchise QB then, unfortunately.

 

Generally speaking 2-5 carries is all that's been proven sustainable for mobile, body reckless type franchise QB's like John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mahomes etc.............so it's time to make like that Panthers game last year and tell Josh to stay in the pocket and figure it out during the regular season........before it's too late.

 

Some of you are much too casual in brushing off the mention of double digit carries by a QB in a game..........that is an out-of-hand situation and it was THE NORM late last year because of shortcomings on the OL and a lack of YAC in the corps.

 

[njbuff]

If the Bills don’t trade up, I think all the good CB’s will be gone by 25.

 

If the aspersion is to win the SB, then I don’t mind giving up the 32nd pick in the 2023 draft to move way up and get a top CB. But that’s just me. 😁

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What did they do to improve the personnel on their OL that allowed 125 combined pressures/sacks? 

 

Saffold is a step back in pass protection and can't play tackle like Williams in the event of Brown being sidelined with back issues again.

 

They simply saved some money swapping Williams out for Saffold......but took on more age and injury risk in Saffold.

 

There is a better chance that the much younger and better player in Tre White comes back and plays a full slate of games at high quality than there is that Saffold plays at a high level for 17+playoffs.

 

 Saffold is a guy you can count on as a half season starter, IMO.  This years version Emmanuel Sanders.........but with the terrible Cody Ford as his backup not a promising young vet like Gabe Davis.

 

And they are missing one starting CB.......Levi Wallace.   Dane Jackson was the starter during the best stretch of the Bills season.......December and January.

 

He is as good of a starting CB in this system as Ryan Bates is a guard.......he literally started more games than Bates yet you say that Josh Allen is setup to succeed with Bates and Jackson doesn't even count as a starter?

 

Dane Jackson put up 41 tackles and his 70 passer rating allowed was lower than two of Tre White's season ratings in his career.    He can start and play well in the Bills system.

 

I get the concern but you are clearly in panic mode about something they've always done well enough to rank among the best in the league........pass defense...........and whistling past the graveyard that is the OL as a whole and their depth at WR...........positions where weakness has undermined them on a broad scale.......ENTIRE SEASONS.........not just one game each year.   

I disagree with your take. The CB position is sub par and a weakness on the Bills roster. Tre will not be Tre for awhile. He's going to miss plenty of games. Hopefully, by playoff time he is hitting his mark. Jackson looks serviceable but let's not pretend like he's anything but that. Imho, the CB position is the teams greatest need. No panic here.

 

Of course the OL is still a concern. However, you fail to mention how well they played after the 1st half of the Tampa game. The OL was really really solid and probably better than that. The run game was solid and Allen had more time to throw. Yet, you wanna throw mud on Saffold who brings super bowl experience and veteran leadership to the OL. Perhaps that's not much of a positive in your book. 

 

The WR core is solid with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, and McKenzie. Add in Knox and OJ to the mix too. Allen is elite and elite QBs make Wrs. Just ask Tom Brady if you don't believe me. Adams will not look half as good without Rogers. This draft is loaded with Wrs. The ones with the most potential will likely be gone by pick 25. Many wide receivers picked in the latter rounds have done well. Not sure pick 25 is wise to pick up a luxury WR. I'm hoping a solid highly graded CB is picked that can contribute immediately. 

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%. The top need for the Bills is a CB. It's a glaring need that's undeniable. The argument that a CB can be drafted later can be easily said about a WR. If a CB is closely graded to any other position the Bills should absolutely take a CB at pick 25. I do think Beane may add a atop gap veteran CB. If so, that my lead to a highly rated CB in the 2nd round. Its a hypothetical at this point. With that said, the CB has to be addressed ASAP. 

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I disagree with your take. The CB position is sub par and a weakness on the Bills roster. Tre will not be Tre for awhile. He's going to miss plenty of games. Hopefully, by playoff time he is hitting his mark. Jackson looks serviceable but let's not pretend like he's anything but that. Imho, the CB position is the teams greatest need. No panic here.

 

Of course the OL is still a concern. However, you fail to mention how well they played after the 1st half of the Tampa game. The OL was really really solid and probably better than that. The run game was solid and Allen had more time to throw. Yet, you wanna throw mud on Saffold who brings super bowl experience and veteran leadership to the OL. Perhaps that's not much of a positive in your book. 

 

The WR core is solid with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, and McKenzie. Add in Knox and OJ to the mix too. Allen is elite and elite QBs make Wrs. Just ask Tom Brady if you don't believe me. Adams will not look half as good without Rogers. This draft is loaded with Wrs. The ones with the most potential will likely be gone by pick 25. Many wide receivers picked in the latter rounds have done well. Not sure pick 25 is wise to pick up a luxury WR. I'm hoping a solid highly graded CB is picked that can contribute immediately. 

 

 

 

 

I've mentioned MANY times that the Bills addressed the lack of good blocking by using Josh Allen like a running back.

 

Some of you are far too casual about them rushing Allen sometimes 10-15 times per game in many games down the stretch...........a fair amount of those by design.

 

They didn't fix the blocking...........they just made it so defense's couldn't hit Allen until he'd GAINED some yardage.

 

That's not sustainable.

 

To put it in perspective...........Josh Allen had more rushes just from the Tampa game thru the KC game(59) than the famously reckless John Elway had in any entire season of his career but one.

 

They need to make the pocket a place where Allen can be comfortable throwing from..........this wear and tear shouldn't be encouraged by half stepping wrt offensive personnel............keeping him at his best is job #1 of the Bills organization.   

 

The secondary is a moving target.........changes will need to be made almost every year......defensive success is very hard to sustain..........all fixes are very temporary.

 

The QB position needs to be stable and the GREATNESS of Allen needs to be kept intact as long as possible.

 

 

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

Did you read the end of my post?   I talked about adding a stop gap CB which would likely lead to no CB picked at 25. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by newcam2012

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Did you read the end of my post?  

Literally the end of your post was "the CB has to be addressed ASAP".

 

It does not.  It can wait.  There are a lot of CBs and the best deals may be after the draft.

[BillsShredder83]

Im truely of the belief Beane signs a vet CB, and then we can draft by very literally BPA... and were going to need it to plug some holes. Saffold, OJ Howard, Edmunds, Poyer, and Singletary are all at diff levels of definitely gone to likely gone.  WR depth is thin already if an outside guy goes down, and Crowder is on a one year deal. CB Depth is thin. 

Luckily we have this draft and next years draft to start addressing these. BPA with a great roster is a luxury most teams don't have. Add some firepower to this years roster,while at the same time getting next years starters in house for depth, and to start grooming for next year. Helluva feeling

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 13 seconds, remember? So much for our number one defense.

Relax. As long as we have Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, and Knox healthy, we're ok. We have no probs getting first downs. A good defense is incredibly difficult to put together AND to keep together long term.

 

A WR will be drafted LATER in the draft.

 

 

I remember the Bills scoring one less TD than KC........despite having the ball 2 less times than the Chiefs.

 

And that game was the first time ever that 2 teams that had scored 40 points the week before had met in the playoffs.............it was an extremely unusual situation with 2 healthy, fresh and red-hot offenses matched up.

 

You shouldn't overreact to that.

 

Instead..........focus on the Bills losing 3 AFC games,  to much inferior opponents,  in the span of 5 weeks where the offense scored an average of 11 points!

 

That is hard to reconcile after seeing how dynamic the Bills offense was when they decided to run Josh Allen 10-15 times per game..........but that was their offense before they started that unsustainable practice.

 

Just one more AFC win and that Bills team would have had home field advantage.

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Im truely of the belief Beane signs a vet CB, and then we can draft by very literally BPA... and were going to need it to plug some holes. Saffold, OJ Howard, Edmunds, Poyer, and Singletary are all at diff levels of definitely gone to likely gone.  WR depth is thin already if an outside guy goes down, and Crowder is on a one year deal. CB Depth is thin. 

Luckily we have this draft and next years draft to start addressing these. BPA with a great roster is a luxury most teams don't have. Add some firepower to this years roster,while at the same time getting next years starters in house for depth, and to start grooming for next year. Helluva feeling

My point is you don't have to sign a vet CB and then draft BPA.  You draft BPA with the confidence that you will be signing a vet CB at some point. 

 

It doesn't have to be before the draft, not if the price is not where Beane wants it.  There is a strong case that there could be a significant price drop with regard to CB signings after the draft.  If the current glut of CBs don't sign prior to the draft, the demand for their services takes a serious drop after 5-10 teams load up with first or second round CBs.

[BillsShredder83]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Unfortunately I think they go defense first round… they can’t help themselves. 

If its BPA at any position needing a re-stock this year or next, I can live with it. Would prefer a guy on offense: OL, WR, TE, even RB wouldnt feel as gross as most years even, as long as we pull a future stud im ok w/ whatever

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You simply don't care about protecting and preserving the franchise QB............clearly not the top priority to you.

 

The Bills offense lost 3 conference games in a 5 game stretch and scored less than 20 in all of them in October and November...........prior to turning Josh Allen into a battering ram to combat their league worst kinda' pass blocking OL.

 

He can't be expected to run 11, 12, 15 times per game again.........that number needs to be more like 2-5 times........MAX. 

 

Otherwise the franchise QB is going to end up like Cam Newton.........a shelf life like the Seattle Legion of Boom defense instead of 20 years like modern franchise QB's.

 

The Josh Allen is "set up to succeed"nonsense is 

 

 

 

 

Again neither I or anybody else has said anything remotely close to what you’re implying.  You literally keep making up false narratives in like every

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

 

I would be that everyone agrees that if we sign a starting worthy corner before the draft that changes everything.  This convo is about the current make up of the roster.  
 

Keep in mind, we don’t have any reserve corners either worthy of starting.  We need more than 1 corner.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

Bottom line:  Beane will go BPA.  And he may move up for a targeted player.  
 

Corner in the first will 100% depend on how the draft falls because Beane won’t reach for need at 25.  And if there is someone he covets at any position, we know he’s not afraid to make a move to get him.  So what we do, as usual, will absolutely be dependent on how it falls. 
 

But the argument that CB isn’t the biggest need is inaccurate.  Biggest need doesn’t automatically mean it will be the first pick either.  But it’s literally undeniable that our weakest position on the team TODAY is CB right now.  

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Never?

 

Well that will be a very short career as a franchise QB then, unfortunately.

 

Generally speaking 2-5 carries is all that's been proven sustainable for mobile, body reckless type franchise QB's like John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mahomes etc.............so it's time to make like that Panthers game last year and tell Josh to stay in the pocket and figure it out during the regular season........before it's too late.

 

Some of you are much too casual in brushing off the mention of double digit carries by a QB in a game..........that is an out-of-hand situation and it was THE NORM late last year because of shortcomings on the OL and a lack of YAC in the corps.

 

 

I think @Hapless Bills Fan is right though. The Bills can dial back scheming it... but Josh is still going to run and in big spots when the stakes get higher he will run more and with more abandon. That is just who he is. 

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I've mentioned MANY times that the Bills addressed the lack of good blocking by using Josh Allen like a running back.

 

Some of you are far too casual about them rushing Allen sometimes 10-15 times per game in many games down the stretch...........a fair amount of those by design.

 

They didn't fix the blocking...........they just made it so defense's couldn't hit Allen until he'd GAINED some yardage.

 

That's not sustainable.

 

To put it in perspective...........Josh Allen had more rushes just from the Tampa game thru the KC game(59) than the famously reckless John Elway had in any entire season of his career but one.

 

They need to make the pocket a place where Allen can be comfortable throwing from..........this wear and tear shouldn't be encouraged by half stepping wrt offensive personnel............keeping him at his best is job #1 of the Bills organization.   

 

The secondary is a moving target.........changes will need to be made almost every year......defensive success is very hard to sustain..........all fixes are very temporary.

 

The QB position needs to be stable and the GREATNESS of Allen needs to be kept intact as long as possible.

 

 

Part of Allen's greatness is his mobility and his legs. What evidence do you have that makes you think his running isn't sustainable? Allen's duel threat only makes the Bills offense that much better. Sure, it can be dailed back some due to injury concerns. However, to make Allen a pure pocket passer is limiting his skills and the Bills offense. Allen's greatness is as stable and intact as ever. 

 

I don't agree with your analysis of the secondary being a " moving target." With regards to the secondary you said "all fixes are temporary." Huh? That's really confusing. Lastly, changes are made every year in almost all facets of the team. The OL is not the exception. 

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line was inconsistent at best in the Chiefs playoff game… it was downright bad at times in fact…. only to have Josh Allen bail it out with ridiculous scrambles and runs….which is exactly BADOLs point. Can’t have Josh putting the offense(and team for that matter) on his back year in and year out. He needs help. The Bills lost arguably their best defensive player in season and played BETTER. The long term success of this team is reliant on Josh Allen and getting him all the help he needs…. It’s not by stacking the defense.

Really? The defense couldn't stop the Chiefs from scoring with 13 seconds to go. They couldn't prevent a Chiefs TD in OT. 

 

Allen was the best player on the field. The Bills offense was unstoppable. Yet, the offensive line gets little to no credit. Really?

 

Of course the Bills brass should always look to improve the Oline, running game, and WRs group. That's a given. 

 

Whose talking about "stacking the defense?" I'm talking about filling an obvious whole in the Bills secondary. To think otherwise is just plain denial. 

 

Based on your thesis, I guess you don't approve of the Von Miller pick up but approve of the Saffold move. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by newcam2012

[GolfandBills]

I really like Britt from Nebraska.  Seems like a great fit in this defense.  Might have to take him round 2 though.   Waiting till the end of round 3 he could be gone 

[ganesh]

It appears that the 4 best CBs in the 1st round will be long gone by the time the Bills will pick.  I think they may have to trade down in the 1st or a trade up to the top of the 2nd to get the 2nd tier ofCBs that they covet.