Do you take a corner in the first?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

No offense, but I’ll take the real scout’s word for it. Do you do it for a living?

 

A "real scout"..... you realise the people working for draft wire are not real scouts either don't you?

 

I think you are guilty of doing the opposite of what you suggest others are doing. You are saying "no way" to a corner. Others are saying "has to be a corner."

 

Neither are true.

Edited April 9, 2022 by GunnerBill

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A "real scout"..... you realise the people working for draft wire are not real scouts either don't you?

You just answered my question…

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If Booth is there I am running to the podium

 

 

Whorlnut.....come on man

It’s an honest question. We are all message board guys with opinions. I didn’t mean anything bad by it. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by whorlnut

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

You just answered my question…

It’s an honest question. We are all message board guys with opinions. 

Some guys on the board have shown to have better opinions......Gunner is one of those.   I mean mean he doesnt come across as aloof like our Bado's of the board but his opinions have been much more right then wrong.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, whorlnut said:

You just answered my question…

It’s an honest question. We are all message board guys with opinions. 

I really think Gunner's opinions are quite astute. Booth is the one D fella I can't complain if he is the pick and I am very much an advocate for wr in the first. WR and OL better be addressed first three rounds, though.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

You just answered my question…

 

 

I could make a living writing for an internet draft blog if I wanted to. But it would be a paycut.  

[OldTimer1960]

47 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Ok…this is a good point. But there are a lot of people blowing off about corner having to be the pick no matter what cause it’s our biggest need. Many want to trade up, which i think would be downright foolish considering what is asked of the corners in this defense. Not to mention, that McD is the best in the sport at developing corners. 
 

As for Andrew Booth…his measurables are elite, but read what is said about his weaknesses in this scouting report:

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/andrew-booth-jr-scouting-report-2022-nfl-draft-clemson-tigers-football/

 

To sum it up…he is prone to getting burnt deep and doesn’t have great recovery speed, which means he “stays burnt”.
 

I’m sorry guys, but that’s the gist of my argument. Why spend a first rounder on a corner, when most of these elite receivers are constantly beating them over the top?  It makes no sense to me. 
 

Keep stacking the offense and let other teams spend high picks on corners that can’t keep up with our speed. it’s what the chiefs have done and part of what has made them successful. 

What I think many are saying is:

1. The Bills have a gaping hole at CB and it is quite possible that White will miss part of the season.  If White misses the first part of the season, the will be counting on a rookie or Cam Lewis to start opposite Dane Jackson (whom I know that you think the Bills love, but many of us are not convinced yet)

2. There are some very good CB prospects in round 1, after that there is a drop off leaves you with either “toolsey” raw prospects (Woolen, McCollum) or guys with not the best physical traits like Emerson, McCreary).

3. If they go with the raw athlete, that player is not starting early and then Cam Lewis is the starter with Jackson on a team that expects to go deep into the playoffs.  If they go with someone like Emerson, he might be able to beat out Lewis, but is he athletic enough to really be a long-term answer?
4. If they sign a veteran FA (how they squeeze the cap room is the question), then, of course, the urgency is reduced and I could see waiting to the 2nd to bet on a raw player with top athleticism.

5. I guess it is also possible that they could make a trade for a corner, but again cap room is a problem in this scenario.

 

I think that if they go into the draft without having acquired a veteran corner it will be a risky scenario to not find a corner who is capable of starting early in the season and/or challenge Dane Jackson for the spot opposite White.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

But there are a lot of people blowing off about corner having to be the pick no matter what cause it’s our biggest need.

 

Likewise there are a lot of people saying we should draft offense no matter what. Beane isn't going to force himself to pick any specific position group in round 1. I think not adding a CB or an Emmanuel Sanders replacement in FA is a telling sign that CB or WR are the likely targets in round 1. But it wouldn't shock me if they take yet another edge rusher like Boye Mafe, or one of the top LBs. Anyone hoping for a specific position is probably going to be disappointed.

 

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

As for Andrew Booth…his measurables are elite, but read what is said about his weaknesses in this scouting report:

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/andrew-booth-jr-scouting-report-2022-nfl-draft-clemson-tigers-football/

 

To sum it up…he is prone to getting burnt deep and doesn’t have great recovery speed, which means he “stays burnt”.
 

I’m sorry guys, but that’s the gist of my argument. Why spend a first rounder on a corner, when most of these elite receivers are constantly beating them over the top?  It makes no sense to me. 

 

You don't scout CBs on their ability to beat Tyreek Hill in a foot race. You scout them on their instincts, their route matching, their technique, their overall athleticism. In McDermott's defense recovery speed isn't really an important attribute for CBs so even if that's true about Booth I don't care.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by HappyDays

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When did Levi Wallace and Dane Jackson keep the Bills from fielding the top pass defense in the NFL when they were starters?    

 

Dane Jackson had a 70 passer rating against.........which believe it or be wrong........was better than Tre White had in both the 2017 and 2020 seasons.

 

Why do we ASSUME Tre White can't come back in 9 months and be good in zone defense when Rod Woodson came back 5 months post op and played in the SB 27 years ago?

 

Why do we assume that the Bills CB depth that has proven to be much more reliable than the Bills OL depth...........isn't going to step up and work fine behind a pass rush that is enhanced by 3 veteran upgrades and reasonable-to-expect improvements from 3 young top draft picks?

 

There is no depth chart, what part of that alludes you?  There is Dane Jackson, that’s it.  Tre is a question mark, we need to add 2 corners.  

[CNYfan]

 

 

 

 

 

2021Travis EtienneJaguars12525RBClemson

2020Brandon Aiyuk49ers12525WRArizona State

2019Marquise BrownRavens12525WROklahoma

2018Hayden HurstRavens12525TESouth Carolina

2017Jabrill PeppersBrowns12525DBMichigan

2016Artie BurnsSteelers12525DBMiami (FL)

2015Shaq ThompsonPanthers12525LBWashington

2014Jason VerrettChargers12525DBTexas Christian

2013Xavier RhodesVikings12525DBFlorida State

2012Dont'a HightowerPatriots12525LBAlabama

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2009Vontae DavisDolphins12525DBIllinois

2008Mike JenkinsCowboys12525DBSouth Florida

2007Jon BeasonPanthers12525LBMiami (FL)

2006Santonio HolmesSteelers12525WROhio State

2005Jason CampbellRedskins12525QBAuburn

2004Ahmad CarrollPackers12525DBArkansas

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Ok…this is a good point. But there are a lot of people blowing off about corner having to be the pick no matter what cause it’s our biggest need.

Literally no one is saying that, at least I haven’t seen anyone say that.  You are however saying offense no matter what, the rest of us are saying CB is our biggest need, and a first round CB makes sense if the right one is there.  I mean I’ve literally said this to you several times now, but you keep falsely insisting the people in favor of a CB wanna us to take one no matter what, which I haven’t seen anyone say that other than you.

 

Our pick will be BPA, so who we take will largely depend on how the draft falls.  

 

I mean even what you just agreed with Bill on I already said to you earlier too lol.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[BADOLBILZ]

45 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

You don't scout CBs on their ability to beat Tyreek Hill in a foot race. You scout them on their instincts, their route matching, their technique, their overall athleticism. In McDermott's defense recovery speed isn't really an important attribute for CBs so even if that's true about Booth I don't care.

 

Yep.  But you generally gotta' have it all to be prioritized as a 1st round CB.

 

There were some who were down on the Tre White pick because he was just 4.47-4.55 40 guy. 

 

And that DOES show up sometimes against very fast receivers who have made him look slow.   Hill burned him alive in the AFCCG.

 

But in zone defense the other traits tend to be called upon so much more so most times he is put in position to look great and rarely disappoints.

 

If you don't need the whole package you can usually find the most important traits you need all over the draft.........whether that be just pure speed/quickness to play man or more zone traits etc..

 

Example.......the best route matcher in Bills history was probably Jabari Greer.........an undrafted free agent. 

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is no depth chart, what part of that alludes you?  There is Dane Jackson, that’s it.  Tre is a question mark, we need to add 2 corners.  

 

 

 

1) Well.......yes there is.....https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/BUF  6 boundary CB's under contract

 

2) I think you were alluding to the word "elude" 

 

3) Tre is a question mark compared to what?  He's an All Pro who is going to be 10 months post surgery at the beginning of the season.   Should he take the season off or no?

[Alphadawg7]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

1) Well.......yes there is.....https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/BUF  6 boundary CB's under contract

 

2) I think you were alluding to the word "elude" 

 

3) Tre is a question mark compared to what?  He's an All Pro who is going to be 10 months post surgery at the beginning of the season.   Should he take the season off or no?

Question mark on when he will be ready, and how long to find his form.  And sorry, we don’t have any CB depth, the guys behind Dane aren’t worthy of starting and will struggle to even make the roster.

[Buffalo Ballin]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:03 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember the Bills scoring one less TD than KC........despite having the ball 2 less times than the Chiefs.

 

And that game was the first time ever that 2 teams that had scored 40 points the week before had met in the playoffs.............it was an extremely unusual situation with 2 healthy, fresh and red-hot offenses matched up.

 

You shouldn't overreact to that.

 

Instead..........focus on the Bills losing 3 AFC games,  to much inferior opponents,  in the span of 5 weeks where the offense scored an average of 11 points!

 

That is hard to reconcile after seeing how dynamic the Bills offense was when they decided to run Josh Allen 10-15 times per game..........but that was their offense before they started that unsustainable practice.

 

Just one more AFC win and that Bills team would have had home field advantage.

 

 

13 seconds.

 

I'm fine solidifying the O-line with pick#25. If the tackle, or right guard is there, for Beane to determine, then yes, take him. I just disagree with taking a WR with pick 25.

 

13 seconds.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Buffalo Ballin

[newcam2012]

15 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Levi is no longer here and hasn't been replaced. 

 

Pass rush won't matter if you can't cover for more than 2 seconds.

 

I actually like Jackson and think he could potentially be the #2 (potentially). But, do you want to count on it or him having to be the #1? Especially with some of the WR we will/could be facing? I am not assuming White won't be back, I am assuming he won't be back at 100%, at least through the first half of the season. Heaven forbid there is any kind of setback.

 

Really, Woodson?! How many others have made it back in 19 weeks? Come on man... I am not a DR, but almost everything I've seen is 9-12 months and could be longer given the mental piece. 

 

Considering what we have already done in FA, it's not a risk we should be willing to take. We currently have what, Johnson, Jackson and uncertainty with White as our 3 starters?

 

We basically already have our starting Oline, our WR's and our DL. We need depth at LB, S, OL, WR and possibly an upgrade to the TE (Sweeney/Gillam) and RB group (Moss). But with signing of OJH and DJ it kind of takes the pressure off. At this point, CB still needs to be addressed.

 

 

Great post and well said. 

[Einstein's Dog]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Indeed it needs to be addressed. And it doesn't have to be round 1. But if Andrew Booth is there it should be in my view. Not because I am obsessed with fixing corner. But because he would be comfortably BPA in a premium position in my book. Conversely if they went Trent McDuffie there I would be underwhelmed and will be looking very closely at what receivers they left on the board. Because he is a "fix corner" high floor but lower ceiling type pick IMO. 

 

So there is a world in which I will be delighted with corner in round 1 and a world in which I would be critical of it. Comes down to the player and the talent not just the position.

And I hope your view is not the opinion of the FO.  If Booth and J Williams  or T Burks are all on board, I hope the Bills go WR.

 

There's no world where I will be delighted with corner in round 1, but I will be able to understand it if the top tier of WRs are gone.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein's Dog said:

And I hope your view is not the opinion of the FO.  If Booth and J Williams  or T Burks are all on board, I hope the Bills go WR.

 

There's no world where I will be delighted with corner in round 1, but I will be able to understand it if the top tier of WRs are gone.

 

I just have Booth as a higher tier of prospect than the receivers. If we are fishing in the same tier of prospects I'd go receiver. It is basically Booth or receiver for me at this point. And I still believe Booth will actually be gone. 

[Einstein's Dog]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just have Booth as a higher tier of prospect than the receivers. If we are fishing in the same tier of prospects I'd go receiver. It is basically Booth or receiver for me at this point. And I still believe Booth will actually be gone. 

I kind of hope Booth is drafted ahead of us so it's not a possibility. 

 

If, for instance, the draft went like the one TBD did where Booth was gone (although you took him) I would have preferred the Bills taking C Watson over the corner.

[muppy]

🍿

 

one thing about chatrooms is these posts are all receipts  of folks opinions and picks. Its great. I dub you all the "heavyweights" folks here definitely know their stuff. muchos kudos this is a Great Bills board just sayin'

 

Im curious who will correctly pick the first round player for Buffalo. I love the NFL draft. Can't get here soon enough 🙂!~!~!!!!!

 

m

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by muppy

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

If, for instance, the draft went like the one TBD did where Booth was gone (although you took him) I would have preferred the Bills taking C Watson over the corner.

 

So would I. No to McDuffie over a receiver. 

[whorlnut]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So would I. No to McDuffie over a receiver. 

What do you mean by this?  You would take McDuffie over the receiver?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

What do you mean by this?  You would take McDuffie over the receiver?

 

No. The opposite. The only corners I'd take over a receiver are Booth or Sauce. Sauce will definitely be gone. I still think Booth will be too. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, whorlnut said:

What do you mean by this?  You would take McDuffie over the receiver?

Fella, he's saying "No to taking McDuffie over a receiver." Gunner is not one of the folks who is pushing cb position over wr. He's got a very high rating for Booth. He also likes a lot of receivers. I believe he mocked Williams to the Bills.

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. The opposite. The only corners I'd take over a receiver are Booth or Sauce. Sauce will definitely be gone. I still think Booth will be too. 

Ok…I agree with this. What are your thoughts on McDuffie and mccreary?  
 

Do you think it’s possible that we might wait till rounds 3 or 4 for guys like Josh Williams, Zion McCollum, Martin Emerson, etc?

 

Beane has shown a lot of faith in Mcd’s ability to develop corners and I can see that faith continue with a mid round pick that allows them to look at other positions with their top couple picks. 

8 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Fella, he's saying "No to taking McDuffie over a receiver." Gunner is not one of the folks who is pushing cb position over wr. He's got a very high rating for Booth. He also likes a lot of receivers. I believe he mocked Williams to the Bills.

Ok…he just answered my question…thanks for chiming in…

[Dr. Who]

Just now, whorlnut said:

Ok…I agree with this. What are your thoughts on McDuffie and mccreary?  
 

Do you think it’s possible that we might wait till rounds 3 or 4 for guys like Josh Williams, Zion McCollum, Martin Emerson, etc?

 

Beane has shown a lot of faith in Mcd’s ability to develop corners and I can see that faith continue with a mid round pick that allows them to look at other positions with their top couple picks. 

Ok…he just answered my question…thanks for chiming in…

We posted at the same time. If I had seen the answer posted, I would not have "chimed in."

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

Ok…I agree with this. What are your thoughts on McDuffie and mccreary?  
 

Do you think it’s possible that we might wait till rounds 3 or 4 for guys like Josh Williams, Zion McCollum, Martin Emerson, etc?

 

Beane has shown a lot of faith in Mcd’s ability to develop corners and I can see that faith continue with a mid round pick that allows them to look at other positions with their top couple picks. 

Ok…he just answered my question…thanks for chiming in…

 

I think both McDuffie and McCreary are good players, I have both as high 2nd round grades, don't love either as Bills fits. McCreary definitely isn't for me. He needs to play in a man heavy scheme to get the best out of him and he has very short arms. McDuffie can play in zone but he also has sub 30" arms which I think would be a red flag for the Bills. Even the guys they have drafted late - Dane Jackson, Taron Johnson, Levi Wallace (as an UDFA) have longer than 30" arms. It matters in their scheme because the longer the DBs arms the greater the distance within the zone they are legitimately able to cover. 

 

It is possible that the Bills wait until the mid rounds for a corner. I think if they don't go corner in round one that is what they should do because I think round two is a bit of a dead spot for corners. You could have as many as 7 go in the top 35/40 picks.... but then other than Martin Emerson, who I do have a late second on, I have a bit of a vacuum until you get into the round 3 grades. 

 

In version 1 of my mock I had them going Jameson Williams in round 1 and then in my two round version 2.0 I had the Bills going Chris Olave in round 1 and Darian Kinnard (as a guard) in round 2. I took flack there for no corner in the first two rounds but I do think it is possible. That said, if they pass on a corner in the first two rounds it won't be "to allow them to look at other positions." It will be because they don't think the talent matches the value. That is what happened at corner last year when Beane has since admitted he wanted to draft one, but they never got into a position where the value worked out. This is a deeper corner group than last year's which after the first 4 guys hollowed out very quickly. This class has 3 outstanding guys up top, then 4 very good but slightly more scheme specific guys and then after a lull in the second round a good crop of developmental mid-round guys. I'd add Tariq Woolen and Alontae Taylor and Coby Bryant to the names you mentioned. 

 

The Bills are not going to force a cornerback selection at #25. But equally they are not going to force a receiver there either. I think it is likely going to be a guy at one of those two spots and it will depend on who is on the board and how they have them graded. If the best player on their board at #25 is a corner they are going to pick him. If that is McDuffie I will be underwhelmed, personally I doubt he will be the guy for them though. 

 

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think both McDuffie and McCreary are good players, I have both as high 2nd round grades, don't love either as Bills fits. McCreary definitely isn't for me. He needs to play in a man heavy scheme to get the best out of him and he has very short arms. McDuffie can play in zone but he also has sub 30" arms which I think would be a red flag for the Bills. Even the guys they have drafted late - Dane Jackson, Taron Johnson, Levi Wallace (as an UDFA) have longer than 30" arms. It matters in their scheme because the longer the DBs arms the greater the distance within the zone they are legitimately able to cover. 

 

It is possible that the Bills wait until the mid rounds for a corner. I think if they don't go corner in round one that is what they should do because I think round two is a bit of a dead spot for corners. You could have as many as 7 go in the top 35/40 picks.... but then other than Martin Emerson, who I do have a late second on, I have a bit of a vacuum until you get into the round 3 grades. 

 

In version 1 of my mock I had them going Jameson Williams in round 1 and then in my two round version 2.0 I had the Bills going Chris Olave in round 1 and Darian Kinnard (as a guard) in round 2. I took flack there for no corner in the first two rounds but I do think it is possible. That said, if they pass on a corner in the first two rounds it won't be "to allow them to look at other positions." It will be because they don't think the talent matches the value. That is what happened at corner last year when Beane has since admitted he wanted to draft one, but they never got into a position where the value worked out. This is a deeper corner group than last year's which after the first 4 guys hollowed out very quickly. This class has 3 outstanding guys up top, then 4 very good but slightly more scheme specific guys and then after a lull in the second round a good crop of developmental mid-round guys. I'd add Tariq Woolen and Alontae Taylor and Coby Bryant to the names you mentioned. 

 

The Bills are not going to force a cornerback selection at #25. But equally they are not going to force a receiver there either. I think it is likely going to be a guy at one of those two spots and it will depend on who is on the board and how they have them graded. If the best player on their board at #25 is a corner they are going to pick him. If that is McDuffie I will be underwhelmed, personally I doubt he will be the guy for them though. 

 

Good write up. 
 

It’s interesting you single out McCreary and McDuffie as not being fits. I watched a podcast on YouTube last night where Greg Cosell names them as really good fits for the Bills. I will say…I agree with you that they don’t fit what the bills look for. The bills like guys with elite traits and I’m sure they view their sub-30” arms as slight red flags. They don’t scream outside corner to me. I’m Mccreary’s case, his arms are absurdly short for a corner…sub-29”. 
 

I really think value might match up in the 3rd or 4th for us. Almost anyone with any knowledge knows that McD and his staff is the best in the game at developing corners. A 3rd or 4th round guy like the ones we mentioned could end up being a stud in a year or two. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

The bills like guys with elite traits and I’m sure they view their sub-30” arms as slight red flags.

 

Under McDermott we have never had a CB on the field with sub 30" arms. Even all of the bottom of the roster/practice squad players - Wildgoose, Griffin, McCloud - had >31" arms. I think Cam Lewis has been the shortest at 30.5". We have enough of a sample size to know that >30" arms is a minimum requirement for CBs in our scheme, and >31" is what they're really looking for. We don't bother rostering them or even putting them on the PS if they don't meet that minimum.

 

Similarly I don't think elite athleticism is what they look for. I've seen a lot of people on here point to Tariq Woolen as a Bills target because we generally like the high RAS score guys. But CB is maybe the one position where that doesn't matter to McDermott. The traits he cares about are length, route matching, and instincts. I watched a few Tariq Woolen videos where on deep passes he is wildly flailing his arms around hoping he gets a hand on the ball. No way McDermott wants that awful technique in his scheme.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by HappyDays

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Under McDermott we have never had a CB on the field with sub 30" arms. Even all of the bottom of the roster/practice squad players - Wildgoose, Griffin, McCloud - had >31" arms. I think Cam Lewis has been the shortest at 30.5". We have enough of a sample size to know that >30" arms is a minimum requirement for CBs in our scheme, and >31" is what they're really looking for. We don't bother rostering them or even putting them on the PS if they don't meet that minimum.

 

Similarly I don't think elite athleticism is what they look for. I've seen a lot of people on here point to Tariq Woolen as a Bills target because we generally like the high RAS score guys. But CB is maybe the one position where that doesn't matter to McDermott. The traits he cares about are length, route matching, and instincts. I watched a few Tariq Woolen videos where on deep passes he is wildly flailing his arms around hoping he gets a hand on the ball. No way McDermott wants that awful technique in his scheme.

 

Great points. Well done. I honestly can’t see McCreary in any scenario. His arms aren’t just short, they are REALLY short. I could see McDuffie only because of his scheme fit, but the arm length might have him off their board. 
 

I agree with Booth probably being the one that would make them consider using the 25th pick on a corner. I don’t want a corner at that spot, but he check almost all the boxes for what the Bills want. I think any other corner would be a slight reach and I don’t expect them to reach on a position that we have great success at developing. 
 

Josh Williams and Martin Emerson are REALLY interesting. They are the ones I would keep an eye on if we wait. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Ok…I agree with this. What are your thoughts on McDuffie and mccreary?  
 

Do you think it’s possible that we might wait till rounds 3 or 4 for guys like Josh Williams, Zion McCollum, Martin Emerson, etc?

 

Beane has shown a lot of faith in Mcd’s ability to develop corners and I can see that faith continue with a mid round pick that allows them to look at other positions with their top couple picks. 

Ok…he just answered my question…thanks for chiming in…

Just curious as to why you say Beane has a lot of faith that Coach McD can develop corners? Seems like an odd statement that's an opinion. What evidence is there to support such a claim? 

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Just curious as to why you say Beane has a lot of faith that Coach McD can develop corners? Seems like an odd statement that's an opinion. What evidence is there to support such a claim? 

I think there is an over abundance of evidence. The fact that he’s only ever drafted a corner before round 5 once. McD is the best in the league at developing corners. This started back in Carolina when he took a fifth rounder named Josh Norman and made him into arguably the best corner in the league while he was there.  

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I think there is an over abundance of evidence. The fact that he’s only ever drafted a corner before round 5 once. McD is the best in the league at developing corners. This started back in Carolina when he took a fifth rounder named Josh Norman and made him into arguably the best corner in the league while he was there.  

I think Coach McD is a fine coach. I just don't see him as a "CB guru developer." I think that's your interpretation. Norman certainly was a surprise. How much credit goes to McD? Who knows?

Edited April 10, 2022 by newcam2012

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think Coach McD is a fine coach. I just don't see him as a "CB guru developer." I think that's your interpretation. Norman certainly was a surprise. How much credit goes to McD? Who knows? 9

 

Your are wrong about the Bills drafting CB only once in the first 5 round. Without any research, I know that Gilmore and Tre White were 1st round draft choices. Some can argue that Gilmore never lived up to his first round hype. 

I was talking about Beane. And it’s a fact he’s only ever once drafted a corner before round 5. That would be taron Johnson. 
 

I think there is more than enough evidence that McD and his staff can coach up DB’s better than most, if not the best. Just about everyone that talks about the bills in the media recognizes that. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by whorlnut

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

I was talking about Beane. And it’s a fact he’s only ever once drafted a corner before round 5. That would be taron Johnson. 

However, one would have to go back and analyze every draft. Were CBs the BPA on the Bills board? Was it a team need at the time? So many variables in place. 

 

It's a pretty big leap of faith saying they haven't drafted a CB within the 1st five rounds because Beane has faith in Coach McD to develop them. In General, I would assume Beane has faith in McD to develop all players at all positions. 

 

Based on your thesis. Is Coach McD a great QB developer now because of Allen's success? 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Great points. Well done. I honestly can’t see McCreary in any scenario. His arms aren’t just short, they are REALLY short. I could see McDuffie only because of his scheme fit, but the arm length might have him off their board. 
 

I agree with Booth probably being the one that would make them consider using the 25th pick on a corner. I don’t want a corner at that spot, but he check almost all the boxes for what the Bills want. I think any other corner would be a slight reach and I don’t expect them to reach on a position that we have great success at developing. 
 

Josh Williams and Martin Emerson are REALLY interesting. They are the ones I would keep an eye on if we wait. 

 

 

At the combine........the on-field drills Williams vs. Woolens was no contest.    Williams had natural CB movement.........Woolen did not.

 

That's not to say that good coaching couldn't significantly change that but after he blazed that 40.........Woolens looked very unnatural.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I was talking about Beane. And it’s a fact he’s only ever once drafted a corner before round 5. That would be taron Johnson. 

 

Yeah but what about Leodis McKelvin and Nate Clements and Antoine Winfield and Jeff Burris and Thomas Smith and JD Williams and Derrick Burroughs...........McDermott is SO "draft a CB in round 1". 

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

However, one would have to go back and analyze every draft. Were CBs the BPA on the Bills board? Was it a team need at the time? So many variables in place. 

 

It's a pretty big leap of faith saying they haven't drafted a CB within the 1st five rounds because Beane has faith in Coach McD to develop them. In General, I would assume Beane has faith in McD to develop all players at all positions. 

 

Based on your thesis. Is Coach McD a great QB developer now because of Allen's success? 

 

 

I’m not even going to argue with you about this. I’m just not. It’s not worth my time.
 

Just about everyone knows that McD is great in developing DB’s. He’s a defensive coach and his background is DB’s. In fact, he was DB himself. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I’m not even going to argue with you about this. I’m just not. It’s not worth my time.
 

Just about everyone knows that McD is great in developing DB’s. He’s a defensive coach and his background is DB’s. In fact, he was DB himself. 

 

I agree about McDermott being a great developer of defensive backs. But I don't think that is why they haven't drafted them early. Beane admitted he wanted a corner last year the draft just didn't fall for them. 

[whorlnut]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree about McDermott being a great developer of defensive backs. But I don't think that is why they haven't drafted them early. Beane admitted he wanted a corner last year the draft just didn't fall for them. 

I think that works in their favor though. They might not see it as urgent as other teams might. 
 

Do you agree with the statement that McD and his staff is pretty much the best In the league at developing DB’s?  Heck, take Hyde and poyer as additional examples. Neither were anywhere near what they are today before McD coached them up. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by whorlnut

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I’m not even going to argue with you about this. I’m just not. It’s not worth my time.
 

Just about everyone knows that McD is great in developing DB’s. He’s a defensive coach and his background is DB’s. In fact, he was DB himself. 

One last jab if I may. Coach MCD was so great that his secondary couldn't stop the Chiefs in 13 seconds nor in the overtime. Or was that Fraizer's fault?