Is now the time to remove OJ Simpson from the wall of fame and HOF?

[ProcessYaDigg]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

Yup. No disrespect to Eric Dickerson and his 2,105 yards in 1984 but the real single season rushing record is OJ's 2,003 yards in just 14 games in 1973.

Yup.  Give OJ two more games and no one for the rest of eternity will come close to a record that could've been.  2K yards in just 14 games is a feat that no one will ever accomplish again.

[QB Bills]

13 minutes ago, StHustle said:

It will always amaze me that people want action taken on a man found Not Guilty....not a hung jury...NOT GUILTY. You know what that means? ALL 12 JURORS VOTED NOT GUILTY. Yes 12 out of 12. How can you justify removing a man on the basis he did something that he proved he didnt? Whether he actually did it or not doesnt matter. You cant go assume he did based on some personal opinion or even the court of public opinion. He was found not guilty in a real court!!!

 

Attempting to take your stuff back from a bunch of scumbags in Vegas was illegal cause of how he did it but that crime isnt worthy of removal. Nobody was hurt and it was property that belonged (whether past or current at that time) to him. Any sensible person could understand his actions on that day minus the guns his friends brought.

 

OJ should always remain. He is a top 3 RB in history and best Bills RB ever. Thats what we celebrate. Are we really gonna have a lifetime disciplinary action system for players we put on the wall?

If you actually listened to any of those jurors, you'd see that they didn't pick the sharpest tools in the shed. Also, there was one black juror who said she declared him not guilty because he was "one of us" which I'm guessing was a sentiment shared by a few others on the panel. 

 

Having said that, there's no way the hatred of him would have been this bad if his wife wasn't a pretty white girl. Ray Lewis and Marvin Harrison killed other black people and are still celebrated to this day.

[MJS]

What does OJ have to do with today's "racial issues"? Just because he is black?

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

What on Earth does this have to do with race?

[Rico]

18 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

It's just that forehead tattoo.  Other than that, I ain't got no beef with him.

One of the first to take a public stand against white privilege. 

 

Helter Skelter is my fav book.

[ExWNYer]

2 hours ago, Greg S said:

Despite his reputation being in the toilet with everything that has happened after his football career, you can't deny he along with Bruce Smith are the two greatest (most talented) players to ever play for the Bills. If judged by only his playing career then he deserves to be in the HOF and remain on the Bills WOF. If he were removed I would completely understand. If OJ is allowed to remain in the HOF then why isn't Pete Rose in baseball's HOF. Pete gambled but his crimes were not nearly as serious as OJ's.

 

Apples to oranges. The MLB HOF has a morals clause which the Pro Football HOF does not. Agree or not, that is the reason that 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are not in their HOF. BTW, if Rose ever gets in, JJ needs to be elected, as well. JJ was exonerated and is still not in the HOF. Rose is not in because, although he admitted to gambling on baseball, he has yet to admit that he gambled on his own team. Regardless, comparing HOF entrants across sports is an exercise in futility.

[machine gun kelly]

31 minutes ago, Circlethewagon8404 said:

Yup.  Give OJ two more games and no one for the rest of eternity will come close to a record that could've been.  2K yards in just 14 games is a feat that no one will ever accomplish again.

Exactly!  Listen, I’m a moral person and whether convicted or not he things wrong, but then again Ray Lewis was accused of murder, but not convicted.  I’m not saying he did it, but an accusation is not a conviction.  I’m sure OJ was not a nice guy post football, but the Wall and HOF is about what happened on the field.  He had the most yards per game of any RB in the NFL which I proved in another thread.  You place someone on the Wall and HOF for their on field, not off field behaviors.

 

Think about it, he had more yards per game than the great Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, AP, and could keep going. He is a stain on the community post football, but this isn’t about post football.  It’s about what he did on the field.

[Augie]

Remove? Keep? Yes? No? 

 

I can’t vote. I looked at the results and I don’t even know what they mean. I think I know what the intent was, but don’t make me guess. 

 

This is why I’m not an autograph or jersey guy. These are just people, some more flawed than others, and we have no idea to what degree. I’ll cheer for our guys on the field. I don’t know what they are like as people. 

[K-9]

34 minutes ago, Circlethewagon8404 said:

Yup.  Give OJ two more games and no one for the rest of eternity will come close to a record that could've been.  2K yards in just 14 games is a feat that no one will ever accomplish again.

I’ll never say never but it’s gonna be a challenge in today’s game to be sure. I won’t say never also because there have been a few really good 7 game stretches where RBs have run for 1,000+ yards. So never say never imo, but it’s up there with DiMaggio’s 56 game hitting streak as far as records in sports go. 

[apuszczalowski]

how is removing OJ from the Wall of Fame at the Stadium and the HOF going to help with racial harmony?

If anything, its more likely to do the opposite.....

[Malazan]

No. Not because he should be up there, but removing him just causes a lot more angst and attention. 

[hondo in seattle]

I think OJ just may be the greatest football player of all time.  In his prime – after Lou Saban unleashed him and before his knee injury – he was other worldly. 

 

1960 to 1979 was the “Golden Age of Running Backs.”    Today, QBs dominate the top of the draft but in those days it was RBs.  NFL teams were built around bell cow RBs, not franchise QBs.   So America’s best athletes became RBs.   Sports Illustrated splashed the covers of their mag with the best college and pro RBs.  And with all due respect to Jim Brown, the very best of them all might have been OJ.  On the gridiron, he looked like an Olympian god playing with mortals.    

 

It’s common these days to hear Brady described as the GOAT but OJ deserves a prominent place in that conversation.     If Brady is better than contemporaries like Brees and Rodgers, it’s not by a hell of a lot. 

 

But OJ was a man among boys.  In 1973, when he rushed for over 2,000 yards, the next best rushing total was 1,144.   OJ nearly doubled that prolific output.  Rushing yards could be hard to come by because in those days defenses were built to stop the run.  But OJ was gashing teams for 6.5 yards per carry. 

 

In 1973, the Bills didn’t have much of a passing offense, nor much of a defense.  OJ was the Bills only weapon.  So the game plan for each and every opponent was simple: Stop OJ.  They couldn’t do it. 

 

Having said all that, I think the SOB should be off the wall.  One of the things wrong with our country is we lionize the wrong people.  Often our kids’ heroes are rich, self-absorbed celebrities.  I think our country’s heroes ought to be folks that are mostly – if not perfectly – good roles models.    We should be lionizing teachers, fire fighters, (good) law enforcement officers, soldiers, sailors, civil rights activists, and social justice campaigners.

 

I love seeing Bob Kalsu’s name on the Wall of Fame.  He might not have been a great football player but he was a great American.  And then there’s Jack Kemp, who honorably served his community and his country after his football career.   And Cookie Gilchrist, who fought for the equal treatment of blacks during the era of segregation.   And Darryl Talley, who embodied effort and teamwork.  And the marvelous Marv Levy, who served in uniform during WWII. 

 

And then, up there with the rest of them, is OJ Simpson, murderer.   I wonder how the Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman feel when they see how in Buffalo we honor the most evil person in their collective lives.

 

Take him down.     

Edited June 9, 2020 by hondo in seattle

[BuffaloBillies]

13 minutes ago, Augie said:

Remove? Keep? Yes? No? 

 

I can’t vote. I looked at the results and I don’t even know what they mean. I think I know what the intent was, but don’t make me guess.

 

Vote no if yes, you think he should not be removed.

Vote yes if no, you don't think he should not be removed.

 

That ought to clear it up for you.

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

As we are trying to reach racial harmony, and statues, tweets, comments, you name it, are under the microscope....should OJ be taken down from the wall?

 

Should his bust be taken out of the HOF?

 

Discuss.

I don't think you could have been more off base if you tried.  

 

Comparing OJ's HoF bust to statues commemorating confederate generals or slave traders is asinine, for starters.  OJ isn't a symbol of oppression and institutional racism.  Hes a football player who allegedly murdered 2 people in a jealous rage.

 

The OJ Simpson trial was racially charged from the start following the Rodney King beating, the acquittal of 2 of the 3 officers involved, and the subsequent riots in LA.  The not guilty verdict for OJ was viewed as a win by many Americans after what they viewed as a miscarriage of justice in the King trial.  To this day, opinions on OJ's innocence differ significantly between black and white Americans, albeit not nearly as much as in 1995.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/most-black-people-now-think-oj-simpson-was-guilty/

 

Using the George Floyd protests as an opportunity to remove OJ from the wall of fame and hall of fame in the name of justice is just dumb.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Gray Beard said:

Could they take a survey among season ticket holders for the wall?  I feel that a survey among the general public would probably overwhelmingly say to remove him, but I think people who actually go to games and have opinions on the issue from all sides should have a bigger voice in the decision. 

 

This seems like a point that has merit

[First Round Bust]

counter-point = was found not guilty by a jury of his peers hard to believe to this day; also served his time for whatever crimes he was found guilty of after that; 

[Doc Brown]

Removing his name would just make him angrier.  Nobody wants that.

[Beast]

Thank you Hapless for the tutorial on how to edit....sorry to all for the confusion.

[Real McClappy]

This is a trick question?

[Marv's Neighbor]

Removing the name won't change the circumstance.  Taking a name or statue down does not change anything.

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Take him off.  The wall in the Bills stadium is a reflection of its fans.  It is a list of those we respect the most.  Simpson certainly was a phenomenal player, but that’s not the whole test for me.  He murdered people.  He’s trash and I don’t respect trash.  I don’t want his name up there.  Fans shouldn’t have to stand under it to cheer and good human beings like Lorenzo Alexander and Kyle Williams shouldn’t have to play under it. 

No it's not.  The wall is a reflection of the contributions of said players to the organization, whatever they may be.  Has nothing to do with the fans.

[Penfield45]

OP’s favorite confederate statue got taken down and the first thing he did was make a thread about how OJ needs to be removed now

 

even though it has nothing to do with what’s going on in America right now 

 

OJ is a top 3 player to ever play for this franchise he deserves to stay there. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Penfield45

[ngbills]

6 hours ago, Nester said:

With the current race situation in America, it seems insensitive to bring up his removal at this time.

 

It may not be your intent, but timing is everything.

I think it is the intent. I am assuming but this has the looks of a "if your going to punish bad white people why not punish bad black people". 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Yes current issue is white on black not black on white (latter never sets off looting).

 

The OJ trial had a racial component for sure. But his being on the Wall is about his (alleged) crime.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

I feel his body of work speaks for itself as a Buffalo Bill. He is a HOF player. He was involved in a horrible situation in California & Las Vegas was in high profile trials and even went to prison on a serious charge. Best case you can say he made some really bad decisions. Worst case you can say he’s a murderer that got away with a horrific crime. My take is I would keep his name there as part of history. If the Football HOF Decided to remove him then there would be a strong sediment to follow suit. 

 

 

"He was involved in a horrible situation"--that is certainly the most sublime euphemism for "decapitated 2 people" ever written.

 

I don't think the Bills should have to look toward the HOF for the proper sediment to remove his azz from that wall....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

What if he admitted he did it, but noted it was in protest of systemic racism... that seems to make it ok from my understanding 

[Augie]

Where do you draw the line? There are a lot of people who have done bad things in the football HOF as well as other sports. They are in for their play, nobody said they were choir boys. Who is going to judge them? What is the criteria. Do they have to be convicted? Do we go after Ray Lewis next? It’s a slippery slope and gets too murky for me to mess with. If he were not in already and I was voting, it would come into consideration. 

 

He’s there, I leave him there. Everybody has their own opinion of him and in or out isn’t going to make a difference to me. 

 

 

.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Augie

[BarleyNY]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

Where do you draw the line? There are a lot of people who have done bad things in the football HOF as well as other sports. They are in for their play, nobody said they were choir boys. Who is going to judge them? What is the criteria. Do they have to be convicted? Do we go after Ray Lewis next? It’s a slippery slope and gets too murky for me to mess with. If he were not in already and I was voting, it would come into consideration. 

 

He’s there, I leave him there. Everybody has their own opinion of him and in or out isn’t going to make a difference to me. 

 

 

.

That is such a BS argument.  Just because we can’t all decide exactly where a line should be drawn doesn’t mean that the vast majority of us can’t agree that certain things are way over it.

 

You are free to say that there should be no line, no moral component to special honors like this.  But just come out and say that.

 

Just out of curiosity, if the Bills move into a new stadium and OJ’s name doesn’t get put up again who’s going to be angry about it?

[Irish Dave]

He stays.  What he did on the field, the records he set, was all in the 1970s.  What happened  later in the 1990s has NOTHING to do with any of that. 

[RiotAct]

another way to look at it is, I doubt anyone

goes to themselves “man, I would really like to grab some Bills tickets and/or merchandise... but they have that O.J. Simpson guy on their Wall of Fame still, and that pisses me off so much that don’t think I’m gonna!”

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

Your question is "Remove OJ?  Keep OJ?" and the choices are yes or no.  It's way too early in the morning for riddles.

 

I'll vote when it's framed properly.  But my vote is to remove him from the wall immediately.

 

The Hall of Fame is full of scumbags.  I personally don't care what they do.  But the Pegulas should have some class and get his ass off of that wall so they stop celebrating a murderer.

 

7 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

Keep him on the wall and in the hall. We have to keep football separate from politics in all aspects. When players kneel it divides the fans. We can't have unity when actions are made due to the current political climate. In my opinion political correctness needs to stay out of it as well. OJ was a great player and broadcaster until things unraveled for him, things that are in no way condoned anywhere. He made the wall and the hall with a stellar reputation, leave it alone.

I love how people think murdering someone is a political act. How embarrassing. 

[Jauronimo]

15 minutes ago, Irish Dave said:

He stays.  What he did on the field, the records he set, was all in the 1970s.  What happened  later in the 1990s has NOTHING to do with any of that. 

I think we should still count the 80s and OJ's contribution to cinema.

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

That is such a BS argument.  Just because we can’t all decide exactly where a line should be drawn doesn’t mean that the vast majority of us can’t agree that certain things are way over it.

 

You are free to say that there should be no line, no moral component to special honors like this.  But just come out and say that.

 

Just out of curiosity, if the Bills move into a new stadium and OJ’s name doesn’t get put up again who’s going to be angry about it?

 

So we disagree, perhaps. It doesn’t make it a BS argument. As I said, if he were not already in and I were voting, I might look at it differently. I never said there was no moral component. I asked where the line is. Sure, he was found guilty in civil court, but should it be required that he’s found guilty in criminal court? Do I think he did it? Of course. Might his son have done it? Maybe? I’m certainly not saying he’s innocent of anything or a good person. But he’s in based upon what he did on the field. 

 

Where do you stand on Ray Lewis? Throw him out, too? Or is the line somewhere in between?  

 

You may disagree, but it appears at this moment 76% of votes agree he should not be removed, for whatever reason. 

[Chandler#81]

Why does this ridiculous topic continue to rear its ugly head here??‍♂️

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think we should still count the 80s and OJ's contribution to cinema.

 

THIS might be where I have to draw the line! Can we throw him out for THAT?   

[Victory Formation]

I think everything shouldn’t be so white and black in terms of judgment. If a man does something wrong it shouldn’t erase all things he’s done right in his life. 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Nester said:

With the current race situation in America, it seems insensitive to bring up his removal at this time.

 

It may not be your intent, but timing is everything.

This is an unnecessary thread. The probable murder by OJ had nothing to do with police brutality or racism. His acts after football should matter. Especially if it involves a multiple murder.  I'd have no problem seeing his 32 replaced with Kyle or Fred. But the bottom line is OJ's true punishment will take place when he's gone. There's no golf courses in hell.

[first_and_ten]

7 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

OJ was great in Buffalo.  His troubles were much later.  Leave him on the wall, not worth the effort and the bad feelings to remove.

 

I agree with this. This celebrates his football achievements as a player for the Buffalo Bills. There would be too much hassle to take his name down. 

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So we disagree, perhaps. It doesn’t make it a BS argument. As I said, if he were not already in and I were voting, I might look at it differently. I never said there was no moral component. I asked where the line is. Sure, he was found guilty in civil court, but should it be required that he’s found guilty in criminal court? Do I think he did it? Of course. Might his son have done it? Maybe? I’m certainly not saying he’s innocent of anything or a good person. But he’s in based upon what he did on the field. 

 

Where do you stand on Ray Lewis? Throw him out, too? Or is the line somewhere in between?  

 

You may disagree, but it appears at this moment 76% of votes agree he should not be removed, for whatever reason. 

It’s a BS argument to say “we can’t agree on where the line should be so we can’t use a line”.  “I don’t think there should be a moral component” or “the line should be here” are valid arguments, however.  That holds whether or not I agree with them. 
 

I’m embarrassed to have OJ on our Wall of Honor.  I’d be embarrassed to have Ray Lewis, Aaron Hernandez or a number of other people on there too.  As you point out, 3 out of 4 people voting in the poll don’t have a problem with it.  That’s their opinion and while they are welcome to it, it doesn’t quite jibe with the outrage I see so often for players on other teams for doing almost nothing comparatively.  I mean, how do you complain about Brady deflating some footballs when you’re cool with keeping a dirtbag like Simpson (armed robbery and kidnapping convictions on top of that double murder thing) on your wall?  I can’t bring myself to do it.  I’ll just leave my part in this conversation at that. 

[1ManRaid]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

Your question is "Remove OJ?  Keep OJ?" and the choices are yes or no.  It's way too early in the morning for riddles.

 

I'll vote when it's framed properly.  But my vote is to remove him from the wall immediately.

 

The Hall of Fame is full of scumbags.  I personally don't care what they do.  But the Pegulas should have some class and get his ass off of that wall so they stop celebrating a murderer.

Also the poll is actually a different question than the thread title.  A general "Remove OJ?" is a different subject than if NOW is the time to remove him.  The title presupposes that he should be removed, and puts emphasis on specifically the timing of it.