Is now the time to remove OJ Simpson from the wall of fame and HOF?

[uticaclub]

14 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Anyone who thinks he should remain on the Wall doesn't value life, clearly... so if you found out a good family friend was a pedophile, would you want them around or associated with your family in any way if a court of law said they were not guilty but you believe your family member they were sexually assaulted?

 

Yeah, "it's just football" is an EXCUSE.

Touching kids and killing your ex are two completely things. The latter has at least crossed everyones minds

[Greg S]

14 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Anyone who thinks he should remain on the Wall doesn't value life, clearly... so if you found out a good family friend was a pedophile, would you want them around or associated with your family in any way if a court of law said they were not guilty but you believe your family member they were sexually assaulted?

 

Yeah, "it's just football" is an EXCUSE.

 

Wasn't he found innocent in the criminal trial. So according to the law he didn't do it. I personally don't believe that like most of the country. Now the civil trial was a different story where he was found guilty. Bottom line this is the Pegula's decision. Why worry or get upset about something you can't control.

[TheBrownBear]

Geez there are some really ignorant folks here.  Being found "not guilty" doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime (in this case murder), just that a jury didn't find you guilty of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.  Let's not forget he was deemed responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole in the civil trial.  He's by no means innocent.  He just avoided life in prison thanks to some great lawyering.

 

All that being said, I say keep him on the Wall and in the Hall.  Guy was a great football player.  He belongs there.  And given what we now know about CTE and its effects on self-control, emotional stability and decision-making, it's not far fetched to think this may have played a part in some of OJ's violent and/or stupid behavior over the years.  

[Bobby Hooks]

19 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Geez there are some really ignorant folks here.  Being found "not guilty" doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime (in this case murder), just that a jury didn't find you guilty of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.  Let's not forget he was deemed responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole in the civil trial.  He's by no means innocent.  He just avoided life in prison thanks to some great lawyering.

 

All that being said, I say keep him on the Wall and in the Hall.  Guy was a great football player.  He belongs there.  And given what we now know about CTE and its effects on self-control, emotional stability and decision-making, it's not far fetched to think this may have played a part in some of OJ's violent and/or stupid behavior over the years.  

So where does that end, and who gets the final say? If he was found “not guilty” who decides if the reasonable doubt was not reasonable enough? 
 

“He’s by no means innocent”, according to whom? You? What investigation did you do? You call people ignorant for not being as self assured and arrogant as you. Where’d you get this beyond reproach expertise? You watched a few documentaries, read a few articles? Sounds like we have an expert on our hands. Seems like a slippery slope, and I for one am glad you don’t have the final say in these matters. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Bobby Hooks

[Jay_Fixit]

11 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

So where does that end, and who gets the final say? If he was found “not guilty” who decides if the reasonable doubt was not reasonable enough? 
 

“He’s by no means innocent”, according to whom? You? What investigation did you do? You call people ignorant for not being as self assured and arrogant as you. Where’d you get this beyond reproach expertise? You watched a few documentaries, read a few articles? Sounds like we have an expert on our hands. Seems like a slippery slope, and I for one am glad you don’t have the final say in these matters. 

I have it on good authority that he DOES have the final say in all matters.

 

TheBrownBear is for the streets.

[TheBrownBear]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

So where does that end, and who gets the final say? If he was found “not guilty” who decides if the reasonable doubt was not reasonable enough? 
 

“He’s by no means innocent”, according to who? You? What investigation did you do? You call people ignorant for not being as self assured and arrogant as you? Seems like a slippery slope, and I I for one am glad you don’t have the final say in these matters. 

Not guilty ≠ innocent.  If someone doesn't understand that basic tenant of the American criminal justice system, then I'm okay calling them ignorant. 

 

According to who?  According to the civil trial jury that found him responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole.  The jury in the criminal trial found him "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".  They didn't find him innocent.  This has nothing to do with my own thoughts, feelings or beliefs on the OJ matter.  I'm just reiterating the facts, brother.

 

I agree I shouldn't have the final say in whether a person spends their life behind bars.  That's why we are entitled to a trial before a jury of our peers - not a single guy behind a keyboard. 

[MJS]

The fact is, he went through a murder trial and was acquitted. Whether people think he did it or not isn't relevant. It was the job of the prosecutors to provide proof beyond doubt that he did it, and they did not do that. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's how the law works here.

 

Everything else is just public sentiment, and it's a dangerous road to make judgements on people and take action based on the whims of society. This is what trials are for, and he went through a trial and was acquitted.

 

And I don't know what the Pegulas or the Bills have to gain by foolishly opening that can of worms. Why bring a media storm to your house if you don't need to?

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

The fact is, he went through a murder trial and was acquitted. Whether people think he did it or not isn't relevant. It was the job of the prosecutors to provide proof beyond doubt that he did it, and they did not do that. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's how the law works here.

 

Everything else is just public sentiment, and it's a dangerous road to make judgements on people and take action based on the whims of society. This is what trials are for, and he went through a trial and was acquitted.

 

And I don't know what the Pegulas or the Bills have to gain by foolishly opening that can of worms. Why bring a media storm to your house if you don't need to?

he did lose the civil trial though.

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

he did lose the civil trial though.

Yes, absolutely. But civil trials require less burden of proof. It's definately a complicated situation.

 

I believe he did it, but that mostly stems from people telling me that he did it all throughout my life. I was too young to really understand what was going on during his trial. People have zero burden of proof when expressing their opinions.

[TheBrownBear]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yes, absolutely. But civil trials require less burden of proof. It's definately a complicated situation.

 

I believe he did it, but that mostly stems from people telling me that he did it all throughout my life. I was too young to really understand what was going on during his trial. People have zero burden of proof when expressing their opinions.

Us older folks have pretty strong opinions on the trial itself, since the entire thing was televised (meaning you could watch every single second in the courtroom and not just the reiterations of talking heads).  Beyond the shoeprints and gloves, there was a bunch of DNA evidence that tied OJ directly to the murder scene.  After sitting through the trial, the only way anyone could ever find OJ "innocent" was if they believed that he was framed for the murder by the racist detective Mark Furman.  The irony of which is that the LAPD loved OJ - seeing as how he was a Los Angeles hero from his time at SC, "backed the badge" and frequently invited them to hang and play tennis at his mansion.

[KeLLy1278]

3 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Cancel culture will say yes. Football fans will say he was the best Bill to ever run the ball. Him being a ***** person doesn't change that fact. He should stay.

Cancel culture cancelled numerous Dr Seuss books. Every Agatha Christie & Sherlock Holmes book should be cancelled too I guess.  Wait why stop there.. we should just cancel every color except the color rainbow.  Can we get a “Cancel every color except rainbow!” chant going? 🙄

 

Perhaps we should cancel sports!  Most people are not athletic and they find it offensive to rub athleticism in their faces on a regular basis!  What about a lack of women in our pro leagues?? I SAY… for every male draft pick, there needs to be a woman picked by the same team in the next round.  Same with athletic picks.  For every athletic person picked.. there needs to be an out of shape couch potato picked by that same team in the next round.  I don’t care if out of shape pot bellied people are not available in college.  Go on the street if you have to.  They usually stand around the soda aisles.  Maybe send a scout to the local liquor stores to take some names too.  What’s fair is fair.  I will not rest until every sports league looks like a rainbow.   Great now let’s all go play duck duck goose.  
 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[Bill from NYC]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:14 AM, thenorthremembers said:

Kelly beat and cheated on his wife

Do we know his to be true?

[FilthyBeast]

I'll never understand this debate, even if OJ was found guilty of murder why cancel him for what he did on the football field many years previous to that event?

 

Dude is/was one of the best players in Bills/NFL history and he was found not guilty which matters in this world.

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do we know his to be true?

Unless she was lying in interviews and books, than yes.

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Unless she was lying in interviews and books, than yes.

I believe you. I heard of the carousing and drinking, but not the domestic violence. 

[T&C]

1 hour ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Cancel culture cancelled numerous Dr Seuss books. Every Agatha Christie & Sherlock Holmes book should be cancelled too I guess.  Wait why stop there.. we should just cancel every color except the color rainbow.  Can we get a “Cancel every color except rainbow!” chant going? 🙄

 

Perhaps we should cancel sports!  Most people are not athletic and they find it offensive to rub athleticism in their faces on a regular basis!  What about a lack of women in our pro leagues?? I SAY… for every male draft pick, there needs to be a woman picked by the same team in the next round.  Same with athletic picks.  For every athletic person picked.. there needs to be an out of shape couch potato picked by that same team in the next round.  I don’t care if out of shape pot bellied people are not available in college.  Go on the street if you have to.  They usually stand around the soda aisles.  Maybe send a scout to the local liquor stores to take some names too.  What’s fair is fair.  I will not rest until every sports league looks like a rainbow.   Great now let’s all go play duck duck goose.  
 

 

The chickens don't like this one bit.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I'll never understand this debate, even if OJ was found guilty of murder why cancel him for what he did on the football field many years previous to that event?

 

Dude is/was one of the best players in Bills/NFL history and he was found not guilty which matters in this world.

Pretty sure that's not what anyone has suggested.

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Pretty sure that's not what anyone has suggested.

 

Then what exactly is removing him from the WOF/HOF as the original post suggested?

 

If that's the not the textbook definition of 'canceling' him not sure what is.

[Warcodered]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

Then what exactly is removing him from the WOF/HOF as the original post suggested?

 

If that's the not the textbook definition of 'canceling' him not sure what is.

It's not for what he did on the football field.

[Gugny]

I absolutely despise this new, stupid usage of the word "cancel."

 

No one is asking to cancel a goddamn thing ... let alone a mother ***** person.

[KeLLy1278]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

It's not for what he did on the football field.

He was found innocent and was allowed to go home after the criminal trial.  I get that it was “the trial of the century” but he faced a long trial and was found to be not guilty by the jurors.  So now the Buffalo Bills need to make a stand and avenge murder charges from 1994 in 2021?  🤣 😂 

 

3/4 of the players who have their numbers/jerseys retired have broken the law in one way or another.  A player tribute is strictly a tribute to what the player did ON THE FIELD.  Wow what a saga this has turned into. No one can separate a person’s private life from their career as an athlete?  Maybe Ty Cobb shouldn’t be in the baseball hall of fame?  Should Mark Messier not be in the hockey hall of fame?  He landed so many cheap shots that I’ve lost count.  Where does cancel culture end?  

At the end of the rainbow!!!  🌈 yaay!

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I absolutely despise this new, stupid usage of the word "cancel."

 

No one is asking to cancel a goddamn thing ... let alone a mother ***** person.

It’s nauseating.  You can’t step outside without seeing them spread their “culture”.  Whether it be at a bookstore or cafe, etc..  And they do it unapologetically.  They managed to get certain Dr Seuss books banned!  If someone doesn’t like a book.. here’s an idea, DON’T BUY IT!  What a concept.  But no, we need to ban everything that some people dislike.. and if you do not agree with them, you are a bigot and should be condemned to purgatory.  This is what modern times look like.  The smart phone generation.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

He was found innocent and was allowed to go home after the criminal trial.  I get that it was “the trial of the century” but he faced a long trial and was found to be not guilty by the jurors.  So now the Buffalo Bills need to make a stand and avenge murder charges from 1994 in 2021?  🤣 😂 

 

3/4 of the players who have their numbers/jerseys retired have broken the law in one way or another.  A player tribute is strictly a tribute to what the player did ON THE FIELD.  Wow what a saga this has turned into. No one can separate a person’s private life from their career as an athlete?  Maybe Ty Cobb shouldn’t be in the baseball hall of fame?  Should Mark Messier not be in the hockey hall of fame?  He landed so many cheap shots that I’ve lost count.  Where does cancel culture end?  

At the end of the rainbow!!!  🌈 yaay!

Like I said previously he did still lose the civil case, which is why when he tried to profit off of the death of his children's mother by selling a book about how "he would of done it" about real people that were murdered, he had to give the money to the families. Also no one is taking away his numbers, nobody is saying he doesn't hold the records he holds, what people are saying is maybe we don't celebrate him because he's shown himself to be a terrible person.

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I absolutely despise this new, stupid usage of the word "cancel."

 

No one is asking to cancel a goddamn thing ... let alone a mother ***** person.

It is weird seeing all these people complain about being canceled on national television.

[RobbRiddick]

Pull them down, burn them at midfield and then rearrange the letters into an amusing anagram like OJ Piss On. That'll learn him

[KeLLy1278]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Like I said previously he did still lose the civil case, which is why when he tried to profit off of the death of his children's mother by selling a book about how "he would of done it" about real people that were murdered, he had to give the money to the families. Also no one is taking away his numbers, nobody is saying he doesn't hold the records he holds, what people are saying is maybe we don't celebrate him because he's shown himself to be a terrible person.

It is weird seeing all these people complain about being canceled on national television.

You support and lend a hand to cancel culture.  Many of us do not.  If we have to live among people like you, then you have to live among people like us.  
 

Can you give us an idea of what will be getting cancelled next?  This should probably be a separate thread.

[benderbender]

The majority of this forum was fine with “canceling” Mike Vick after he’d served his time. No one seemed to care about what he did “on the field.” So many made proclamations about how they’d be willing to quit their fandom if Buffalo pursued Vick during our QB purgatory and drought.

 

Glad we dodged that bullet, amirite? This probably isn’t remotely related in any way. Carry on. 

[KeLLy1278]

1 minute ago, RobbRiddick said:

Pull them down, burn them at midfield and then rearrange the letters into an amusing anagram like OJ Piss On. That'll learn him

I think that anyone that has anything signed by OJ, be it a card, photo or memorabilia of any kind..  needs to be arrested and sent to trial immediately.  We have to send a message to these insubordinates that the party is over.  
((SARCASM))

 

I guess we should treat Jim Kelly in a similar fashion since his wife accused him of hitting her.  Everyone wearing an OJ or Kelly jersey should be sent away in cuffs.  

Cancel Culture is thriving and there is no end in sight.

[Nextmanup]

21 minutes ago, benderbender said:

The majority of this forum was fine with “canceling” Mike Vick after he’d served his time. No one seemed to care about what he did “on the field.” So many made proclamations about how they’d be willing to quit their fandom if Buffalo pursued Vick during our QB purgatory and drought.

 

Glad we dodged that bullet, amirite? This probably isn’t remotely related in any way. Carry on. 

They also had no problem canceling Colin Kaepernick, whose career was literally cancelled/destroyed by the NFL to send a message to players not to get political.

 

It's just a question of what the underlying fact pattern is, I guess, among these people.

 

There's no well thought out underlying principle involved at all.

LOL

 

 

[LabattBlue]

I wonder if they include a Bills HoF as part of a new stadium, what do they do about OJ in said HoF?  He is a scumbag and will be until the day he dies, but how do you ignore his time with the Bills?

[Greg S]

23 minutes ago, BTB said:

I wonder if they include a Bills HoF as part of a new stadium, what do they do about OJ in said HoF?  He is a scumbag and will be until the day he dies, but how do you ignore his time with the Bills?

 

Their definitely will be a Bills HOF or Ring of Honor for past members in the new stadium. As for OJ it depends on what the Pegula's think. If they judge him on everything then their is a good chance he is left off. If they judge him only as a football player then he absolutely belongs. Both he and Bruce Smith are the two greatest players in Bills history AINEC.

[Deadstroke]

Not only no, but f### no!!

[Rico]

Ralph disgraced the franchise far more than OJ ever did. If you’re going dump anyone, make it Ralph please.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

 Should Mark Messier not be in the hockey hall of fame?     

 

Absolutely not!!  HE didn't nearly decapitate his kids' mother----what a piker!

 

2 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

 

Cancel Culture is thriving and there is no end in sight.

 

Head to the bunker!!

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, BTB said:

I wonder if they include a Bills HoF as part of a new stadium, what do they do about OJ in said HoF?  He is a scumbag and will be until the day he dies, but how do you ignore his time with the Bills?

You include it. 

 

The story of the NFL or the Buffalo Bills isn't complete without OJ's accomplishments. The story of OJ isn't complete without his post career incidents. 

 

He should be included and he should be both recognized for the player he was and the person the became.

[KeLLy1278]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Absolutely not!!  HE didn't nearly decapitate his kids' mother----what a piker!

 

 

Head to the bunker!!

He was acquitted in a court of law.  Whether you agree or disagree with the verdict is completely irrelevant.  
 

And no, I’m not shy about expressing my opinion. Should everyone who doesn’t embrace cancel culture go hide in a bunker?  Someone gives you guys a finger and you want the entire arm.  It wouldn’t hurt to have cameras directed at people like you at all times.. to ensure that normal people (people who do not live, breathe, eat & drink PC culture) can live free.  

Congrats on the most recent cancellations.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

He was acquitted in a court of law.  Whether you agree or disagree with the verdict is completely irrelevant.  
 

And no, I’m not shy about expressing my opinion.  Should everyone who doesn’t embrace cancel culture go hide in a bunker?  Someone gives you guys a finger and you want the entire arm.  It wouldn’t hurt to have cameras directed at people like you at all times.. to ensure that normal people (people who do not live, breathe, eat & drink PC culture) can live free.  

Congrats on the most recent cancellations.  

but he was liable. 🤷‍♂️

[KeLLy1278]

22 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

but he was liable. 🤷‍♂️

Perhaps.. probably.. but not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.  
 

Either way it has zero to do with his ability to dominate football games pretty much by himself.. in an era when every opponent knew that he was pretty much the entire team.  We are debating if he should be removed from Bills history.  The answer is a resounding F*** NO!

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Perhaps.. probably.. but not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.  
 

Either way it has zero to do with his ability to dominate football games pretty much by himself.. in an era when every opponent knew that he was pretty much the entire team.  We are debating if he should be removed from Bills history.  The answer is a resounding F*** NO!

Not probably he was, he's had to pay the families a crap load of money, and once again this has nothing to do with what he did on the field. Also this doesn't erase him from Bills history, his numbers, or records.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Warcodered

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Not probably he was, he's had to pay the families a crap load of money, and once again this has nothing to do with what he did on the field. Also this doesn't erase him from Bills history, his numbers, or records.

 

Tell me why you would want a murderer in bills history, numbers or records?

[Jauronimo]

45 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

He was acquitted in a court of law.  Whether you agree or disagree with the verdict is completely irrelevant.  
 

And no, I’m not shy about expressing my opinion. Should everyone who doesn’t embrace cancel culture go hide in a bunker?  Someone gives you guys a finger and you want the entire arm.  It wouldn’t hurt to have cameras directed at people like you at all times.. to ensure that normal people (people who do not live, breathe, eat & drink PC culture) can live free.  

Congrats on the most recent cancellations.  

He was found guilty in a court of law of wrongful death of two people, he was found guilty in a criminal court of violent armed robbery and served 9 years in prison, and he still enjoys a life of luxury best I can tell.  

 

What cancel are you referring to? 

[billsfan714]

I dont see some huge outcry is he's left off the new stadium.