Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: I hate this excuse (“he was on a bad team...”). As I recall, Josh Allen played with Robert Foster as his #1 WR and Pillsbury Benjamin and a patchwork Oline his rookie season. And “two terrible organizations with no chance for a young QB” yet Fitzpatrick (age 30+ ) was able to garner wins, TD’s and players’ respect? Maybe y’all need to re-think the skill set of the poor, young QB before criticizing the team he is playing for. So Fitzpatrick as a rookie or 2nd year QB would have been dazed, confused, and pulverized on the Dolphins. The fact that Allen managed to bring excitement, first downs, and sometimes completed passes to the Bills with Robert Foster, Pillsbury, and no O-line is the reason I bellied up for my serving of Crow Pot Pie on the Other Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 28 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Ryan Mallett had talent too. Sometimes you’re just not good at QB. Obviously I'm not paid to evaluate talent, but I really really thought Mallet would be a big success in the NFL, luckily that's not my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He got traded away from AZ to the Tanking Dolphins for a 2nd round and 5th round pick which is quite a value drop for a top-10 pick. He then got beat out by Fitzmagic for the starting job on the tanking Dolphins. Fitzmagic predictably bollixed up the Phins tank to the tune of 5 wins, but they're still drafting pretty high. What happens to Rosen? He's under contract for 2 more years. He's got substantial guaranteed money as roster bonuses. $4.9M dead cap to cut him. Just curiousity here. I heard a piece on some football talk show mid-season where Jordan Palmer was still expressing the viewpoint that Rosen could play and hadn't really been put in a position to succeed. The Phins, by the way, do have Fitzy under contract for 2020 with an $8M salary ($4M is guaranteed). That guy, I tell ya. Career earnings of $63.5M and counting. I think he’s ruined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Warcodered said: He's still got Jacksonville left on his Florida vacation punch card. What is this, Ticket To Ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I don't even think Rosen would be "right josh" when compared to Josh Johnson, let alone Josh Allen. The other quarterbacks in that class still have a good chance at a long career, but Rosen seems to be a close to done as a qb going into their third year can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Brees. That man has a pocket sense that is amazing. He's like the Rocky Horror Picture Show for a pass rush - it's just a jump to the left and a step to the right, a little duck, and the pass rushers slide off him like he's teflon coated. No, Josh Rosen is no Drew Brees. How he even sees his WR's blows me away with his height and lack of mobility. I'm not comparing him to Rosen. Just pointing out an immobile QB can still thrive in the right system. I highly doubt Rosen succeeds in this league as a starter, but I wouldn't give up on him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Warcodered said: He's still got Jacksonville left on his Florida vacation punch card. Jacksonville is in Florida?? seems more southern Georgia.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Rosen does not have the pre-requisite arm strength required to excel at the NFL level, especially when you take into account his lack of mobility. He's in this position because he's simply not a good QB. People get really hung up on first round draft picks and the expectations that come along with that. It means nothing. There's a LONG list of first round quarterbacks who washed out of the league. I don't care about his personality or any of that nonsense. He's not good. I understand he's played under rough circumstances, but he doesn't pass the eye test. I caught large segments of games in 18' and one thing stood out when Rosen was in there; even when he made the proper read, which he does pretty well, he didn't have the zip on his passes to get the ball to the receiver on time. Many of these throws occurred when he had a clean pocket and a solid platform to throw from. He also doesn't have a great feel for pressure and where it's coming from. Guys like Brees and Brady don't have great arms(still better than Rosen's), but they're ELITE at sidestepping pressure and creating platforms/throwing lanes. Baker's not that good.(IMO) Darnold's not that good(IMO.) Rosen is not good at all.(IMO) Jackson is good, but I'm not sure how long it'll last. Allen is really the wildcard here. If he's able to elevate his game, the class looks quite a bit better. If not, this could very well be a historically bad QB class. 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: How he even sees his WR's blows me away with his height and lack of mobility. I'm not comparing him to Rosen. Just pointing out an immobile QB can still thrive in the right system. I highly doubt Rosen succeeds in this league as a starter, but I wouldn't give up on him at this point. Brees has ELITE pocket presence, which allows him to sidestep pressure and create throwing lanes. That's how he's been able to do what he does with his physical limitations. 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Brees. That man has a pocket sense that is amazing. He's like the Rocky Horror Picture Show for a pass rush - it's just a jump to the left and a step to the right, a little duck, and the pass rushers slide off him like he's teflon coated. No, Josh Rosen is no Drew Brees. Chimed in before reading all the responses. Appears my entire post has already been covered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Historically bad QB class seems really premature to me - I wouldn’t write off Baker or Darnold yet and Allen and Jackson are already playoff QBs... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan20 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Rosens biggest issue in the NFL thus far in his career has nothing to do with arm strength or lack of mobility. If you watch the kid it looks like the game is moving too fast for him. He’s been late on a lot of throws, and seems to be missing easy reads. He also developed a hitch in his delivery that I didn’t notice in college. All this surprises me because Rosen has been a QB prodigy his entire life. I would have thought he’d be more advanced with regards to the mental part of the game coming into the league. That said he got drafted into a terrible situation with a bad OL and bad offensive coaching which certainly didn’t help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Overrated, overhyped, arrogant, entitled, too cool, too full of himself and too much a douchebag to be a leader of men. That and he lacks arm strength and pocket awareness. I predict he is out of the league within 3 years. I never could understand all the hype. I live in Oregon and follow PAC 12 football. He was not a winner in college. Edited January 16, 2020 by Turk71 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Historically bad QB class seems really premature to me - I wouldn’t write off Baker or Darnold yet and Allen and Jackson are already playoff QBs... There is certainly an amount of projection involved, but two seasons in is not too early to start thinking about the possibility. Outside of Jackson, the other 4 QB's have some serious question marks. Based on recent history, we generally have a decent idea as to who these are by now. Time will tell. As far as Darnold and Mayfield go, they COULD turn into franchise guys, but I don't personally see it. Allen is the guy I view as being the least "settled."Definitely improved a great deal in year 2. Still has a LONG ways to go, but he's got the highest ceiling. Doesn't mean he'll get there, but he's got a better shot than the other two IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So Fitzpatrick as a rookie or 2nd year QB would have been dazed, confused, and pulverized on the Dolphins. The fact that Allen managed to bring excitement, first downs, and sometimes completed passes to the Bills with Robert Foster, Pillsbury, and no O-line is the reason I bellied up for my serving of Crow Pot Pie on the Other Josh. Fitzpatrick has been kicked to the curb by 7 different NFL teams, has a “noodle arm” (remember how everyone said he can’t make those long passes) and was placed in a “bad situation”, yet he made the most of it and became a team leader on a depressed Dolphins team. My point is: it’s not a valid excuse to say Rosen was put in a bad situation on a poor team. Fitz was put in that same situation as a “trash heap” QB and so was Allen. Some people just make the most of their opportunities and become leaders. Others don’t. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: I hate this excuse (“he was on a bad team...”). As I recall, Josh Allen played with Robert Foster as his #1 WR and Pillsbury Benjamin and a patchwork Oline his rookie season. And “two terrible organizations with no chance for a young QB” yet Fitzpatrick (age 30+ ) was able to garner wins, TD’s and players’ respect? Maybe y’all need to re-think the skill set of the poor, young QB before criticizing the team he is playing for. The Cardinals gave up something like 15 sacks in under 2.5 seconds. There was no worse offensive line. Throw in the fact that David Johnson basically forgot how to run and the WRs were hurt, and it ends up being one of the worst teams I've ever seen. They were the only thing keeping me optimistic about the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, BruceVilanch said: Obviously I'm not paid to evaluate talent, but I really really thought Mallet would be a big success in the NFL, luckily that's not my job. Of course. So did I. Ryan Mallet had an arm that was at least as strong as Josh Allen's. At least. I saw him make seemingly impossible throws in college. He was said to have had multiple, serious problems and the NFL scouts and GMs knew. The kid had top 5 talent and lasted until round 3 as I recall. Belichick soon tired of his act and dumped him. Anyway, there was no comparison between Rosen and Ryan in terms of talent. Mallet could have thrown Rosen's body for a 40 yard square out. Personalities? Mallet was said to have drug problems. Rosen is a pampered, whining little rich punk. It's fun to see him fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I still believe he can be a quality backup for some NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 If only that certain special someone was here to clarify the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: I think Rosen could have been great 10 years ago. The NFL has moved away from statue QBs. If you aren't at least somewhat athletic you aren't going to survive. Rosen's style will make him a career bridge starter at best. I think it works really well even with a QB that isn't as mobile as some of the new guys. Rivers, Brady, Manning were not mobile. Rosen is more athletic than 2 of those 3. All 3 of those guys could be successful today. The difference is you have to be fast seeing the field with great accuracy or you're doomed. Is Rosen that person? I don't think so. A real competitor never lets you know he is, it's a fire inside. Brady never said "I was picked in the 6th so you're all going to burn" and Rivers drafted 4th didn't say he hated the Giants. A real competitor is more fire than burst. People who burst are weak, this is a league for beasts, not sissies. Rosen is a sissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Denver now has the QB whisperer Pat Shurmur , would be the best chance for Rosen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Brees. That man has a pocket sense that is amazing. He's like the Rocky Horror Picture Show for a pass rush - it's just a jump to the left and a step to the right, a little duck, and the pass rushers slide off him like he's teflon coated. No, Josh Rosen is no Drew Brees. I agree with you that Rosen will never be like Brees but people forget Brees was benched for a 40+ year old Flutie in SD. Brees made his way up the ladder through out working everyone, Rosen does not seem to have that characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRightRevenge Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, tcampbell104 said: i think that if new england traded for him and he got to sit behind brady for a year it could revive his career. the guy does have talent the pats offense with belichick coaching could be a .match I would love for him to take the reigns of the Pats post Brady and we get to pummel him twice a year. He's soft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He got traded away from AZ to the Tanking Dolphins for a 2nd round and 5th round pick which is quite a value drop for a top-10 pick. He then got beat out by Fitzmagic for the starting job on the tanking Dolphins. Fitzmagic predictably bollixed up the Phins tank to the tune of 5 wins, but they're still drafting pretty high. What happens to Rosen? He's under contract for 2 more years. He's got substantial guaranteed money as roster bonuses. $4.9M dead cap to cut him. Just curiousity here. I heard a piece on some football talk show mid-season where Jordan Palmer was still expressing the viewpoint that Rosen could play and hadn't really been put in a position to succeed. The Phins, by the way, do have Fitzy under contract for 2020 with an $8M salary ($4M is guaranteed). That guy, I tell ya. Career earnings of $63.5M and counting. He’ll most likely play out his contract as a back up at least for the upcoming year, and maybe they give him a shot again in 2021. He’s not worth anything on a trade, and Miami will probably also pick a QB with their first pick. They have so many holes to replace in what they gave away, that they are far behind us in a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Duplicitous? As in "lying"? Please. Where are the examples? My apologies, a poor choice to describe Rosen. Many of the Patriots staff and players are duplicitous, Rosen is just vainglorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Rosen has already gotten rich off of football compared to the average person in life. If he manages money well he will never have to work a day the rest thereof. As far as his career goes? Who knows? He can throw a football. You saw that in his time at UCLA. He would have to be in the right system and thoroughly coached up. He hasn't been put in the best positions to succeed thus far, that's for sure. I'd say right now he has the chance to be a Matt Moore, Chad Henne type of player, but it doesn't look like he will ever be any team's chosen starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 he sucks. he is physically weak. not built for the nfl. his attitude was something i figured could be forgiven if he could ball, but now that he can't it doesn't exactly help things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) What exactly does Rosen do well? Thats the question you need to ask Is he a quick decision maker? Is he deadly accurate? Is he a good leader? A play maker? To me he is a JAG. If he was drafted in the third round he might be out of the league already. I'm not sure I can say he does anything well. His best hope is a career like Blaine Gabbert. Hang around for 8 years backing up and hope you never have to play 10 hours ago, Livinginthepast said: Some people didn't want Rosen because he was an open atheist in a league of holy rollers. Besides his own poor performances, I cant help but wonder if the fact that he isn't a believer hasn't also hurt his chances in the NFL. Nate Peterman who was much worse in performance and potential talent, got a lot of mileage out of the religious factor. Maybe Rosen is the opposite? Nope. he just sucks Edited January 16, 2020 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Yeah, this is a tricky one to predict. He could succeed if he happened to end up in the perfect scenario (like the Patriots* speculation in this thread) or he could end up a career backup. There will probably be a day about 5 years from now where he will be an all but forgotten backup somewhere, finally get an opportunity to play and have modest success for a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I really missed in my evaluation of him. I thought the smarts and release he has shown would offset the lack of mobility. I really think if he really ever gets the “want to” he could still be good. But right now I got his draft evaluation wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I was never a fan. When I watched the discussions of him coming out, praising his ability, it all seemed like a stretch. He never passed the eye test to me. Then, when the talk came out about his personality (I took it with a grain of salt, partially), I was soooooo happy we took JA. I’ll never root against anyone but I don’t see this guy being a game changer on par with his draft status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, JetsFan20 said: Rosens biggest issue in the NFL thus far in his career has nothing to do with arm strength or lack of mobility. If you watch the kid it looks like the game is moving too fast for him. He’s been late on a lot of throws, and seems to be missing easy reads. He also developed a hitch in his delivery that I didn’t notice in college. All this surprises me because Rosen has been a QB prodigy his entire life. I would have thought he’d be more advanced with regards to the mental part of the game coming into the league. That said he got drafted into a terrible situation with a bad OL and bad offensive coaching which certainly didn’t help. To the bolded: that's very common with young QBs. The exception is young QBs who work with a QB-friendly OC who breaks it down for them and makes the system as simple as possible. It's not necessarily a problem - what the OC wants, I think, is a QB who processes what he sees and makes good decisions, even if they're too late initially. The hope is that just as a musician becomes able to play a difficult piece of music faster with pattern recognition and correct, slower practice, the QB's mental processing will speed up as pattern recognition and practice kick in. The other side of the story is a QB who just reads and reacts even if the read and the reaction are wrong much of the time and lead to picks. I do think that Rosen became a victim of his own expectations, as did Mayfield to some degree. Josh Allen came into the league "knowing what he didn't know". Rosen came into the league knowing that he'd been a QB prodigy his whole life and expecting that to continue. He had to waste time learning what he didn't know before he could start learning what he needed to know. It's all between the lines of some of the interview comments he's made about shadowing Fitz and learning how he approaches game prep, trying to predict where he's gonna throw etc. 2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: This is a league for beasts, not sissies. Rosen is a sissy I don't think "sissy" is a good description of any QB who has shown the ability to take a hit in the NFL and come back for the next play. The man took 45 sacks his rookie season. Doesn't mean he'll become a capable NFL QB, but he's not a sissy. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 To answer the original question -- I don't really care all that much. I think Rosen made himself look like a dufus after the draft, and despite being thrown into less-than-ideal situations he hasn't looked the part of a QB1. I think the odds of him becoming anything more than a clipboard holder grow longer by the day. I mean, if the tanking Dolphins aren't willing to put the time into him who will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: There is certainly an amount of projection involved, but two seasons in is not too early to start thinking about the possibility. Outside of Jackson, the other 4 QB's have some serious question marks. Based on recent history, we generally have a decent idea as to who these are by now. Time will tell. As far as Darnold and Mayfield go, they COULD turn into franchise guys, but I don't personally see it. Allen is the guy I view as being the least "settled."Definitely improved a great deal in year 2. Still has a LONG ways to go, but he's got the highest ceiling. Doesn't mean he'll get there, but he's got a better shot than the other two IMO. I don't want to come off as dissing the "league MVP", but at this point, I think it has to be acknowledged that Jackson has some gaps in his QB game that several strong defenses have managed to exploit. Agree about Allen. The keys to me are: 1) will he succeed in engraining a change to his footwork deeply enough so that it holds under pressure, in a game? 2) will he stop paying lip service to the "take what they give you" mantra and actually start being able to live by it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 hours ago, KzooMike said: He is as close to Nate Peterson as any QB I can remember. So INT prone and seemingly always pick 6's. I will eat a whole bucket of crow on him as I preferred him to Allen. I'll openly admit I preferred him during the draft too. Although Allen has clearly shown all the traits we all knew he had, he's still exhibiting the accuracy issues that have been following him from college. I love the guy now, and can only hope he can develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I didn’t like him pre draft. That said he’s been given zero chance to succeed. I would have to guess if he can’t win the offseason and come out next year and beat out Fitz for that job on what should be a much more talented dolphin offense his chance of being a successful starter may be over. Of course that hinges on them not getting another quarterback rather rookie, trade or free agent. I would actually like him to end up in Pittsburgh if Miami doesn’t work out. I feel like they could utilize his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: I didn’t like him pre draft. That said he’s been given zero chance to succeed. I would have to guess if he can’t win the offseason and come out next year and beat out Fitz for that job on what should be a much more talented dolphin offense his chance of being a successful starter may be over. Of course that hinges on them not getting another quarterback rather rookie, trade or free agent. I would actually like him to end up in Pittsburgh if Miami doesn’t work out. I feel like they could utilize his talent. What is this “zero chance to succeed” thing? He’s a freaking prodigy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) I was relatively low on him, but I still had him graded as a mid-to-late 1st round pick (just happened to be the lowest of the big 5). Unfortunately for him, he's ended up with two teams that bring out the worst in him. He was legitimately horrible whenever there was pressure in college; he was then drafted to a team with the worst offensive line in the NFL and subsequently traded to another lackluster offensive line in Miami. I never believed he had the potential to be a great QB, but I definitely think he had the potential to be better than he's been so far. Like I said, he desperately needs a team that can protect him. If Miami decides to just dump him elsewhere (can't imagine they'd get much in return at this point), teams like Pittsburgh, Indy, New England, Tennessee, and New Orleans might make sense. Those teams can all protect him and could be searching for a potential future starter. Edited January 16, 2020 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumaro02 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: Backup to the right Josh is aok with me. Yea that would sure be a perfect culture fit. Not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, sven233 said: Not that he has been great while getting a chance to start, but he's gotten a pretty raw deal if you ask me. Two terrible organizations with absolutely no chance of winning with a young QB. I'm not sure what will end up happening to him, but I do hope that he ends up in a good situation on a good team where he can backup for a couple years while working on his craft. At some point you have to show something in practice to get into the games. Obviously he hasn't consistently enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 When Rosen with sitting with Grandpa Aaron Rogers (who seemingly became 65 years old all of a sudden) talking about winning more Super Bowls than Brady before he was even drafted it was a big red flag for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 He'll get moved post-draft. Miami will pick a QB in this one whether its Tua, or Fromm, or Herbert etc. Free agency will shake out, and there will be teams out there looking for a young QB to groom/compete. Just now, TheFunPolice said: When Rosen with sitting with Grandpa Aaron Rogers (who seemingly became 65 years old all of a sudden) talking about winning more Super Bowls than Brady before he was even drafted it was a big red flag for me. How about i dunno - one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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