Mayfield is << Allen

[Chuck Wagon]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

But typically someone that driven who had a crazy work ethic doesn't loose it that quick... Unless he gets too full of himself too quick

 

 

 

Baker doesn't seem like the type to get too full of himself too...

 

LOL

 

I can't

 

He seems exactly like that type

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

Coaching and sacrificing the OL for shiny weapons.  

 

He seems to be regressing. 

He will regress and so will Lamar

[x-BillzeBubba]

all I know is Allen, in a very short time, has made Bills football a must see product for all the right reasons...exciting, drama free, team leadership that is fun to watch.  

Edited September 17, 2019 by x-BillzeBubba

[Pete]

I work with a couple friends who are Giants fans- and I said before week 1-“rank the qbs in order- - Mayfield, Allen,Darnold, Jackson, Rosen.  I’m going to ask you every week to rerank them”.

Josh’s arrow keeps going up

[MrEpsYtown]

I love how Booger compared him to Favre because their touchdown celebrations were similar. 

[formerlyofCtown]

Slow down.  I am a huge Allen guy but we played two weak opponents.  I believe Allen will surpass all the other '18 Draft QBs but not saying he is there yet.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Slow down.  I am a huge Allen guy but we played two weak opponents.  I believe Allen will surpass all the other '18 Draft QBs but not saying he is there yet.

 

And Baker hasn't?

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

The main concern about Mayfield coming out of college, was the classic "he is too short" problem.  And while Drew Brees is a radical exception to that rule, it has shown to be a problem for many other talented but shorter QBs.   

Last night we went up against a defensive coordinator who saw Mayfield for a full season live in practice last year.  This has to provide a lot more insight for game planning than simply watching game films.   I can't say I know what the Jets defense specifically did different than other defenses, but Mayfield looked like he was throwing out of hole last night. Quite a few passes knocked down, and a launch angle requiring his receivers to leave their feet ( and pay a big physical price) to catch balls he through out of the pocket. Greg Williams may have provided the defensive template to beat up on Mayfield last night.

I also had some understanding that Mayfield was mobile, but that sure was not on display last night.  

[DCofNC]

A lot of homerism here.  Mayfield has shown it in college and last year as a rookie, he works hard, has a great arm, can make plays on the run, generally makes good decisions with the ball and WINS.   The media got behind him and the Browns, now we have a bunch of people trying to poke holes in him and say Allen is better.

 

Last year we heard from everyone that Allen's line was the issue, but we're willing to ignore the issues Cleveland is having now when looking at Mayfield.

 

We heard Josh has "it" and finds a way to win, no matter how ugly, what was the outcome of the game people are freaking out over?

 

Every week the excuses come in for Josh missing guys that are open. Brown was wide open, for a td, but who cares? We scored on that drive anyway.  Mayfield misses OBJ once and now he is innacurate.

 

The offense sputters here and they are still needing time to "gel", forget that for Cleveland.

 

C'mon guys, judge with the same standards and quit trying to feel like your qb is clearly better because you are tired of hearing about Cleveland.  Most of you sound like jealous school girls defending your boyfriend.  As it stands, Allen has had a mediocre game that nobody wants to talk about because it was a win and a solid game.  He made improvement from last year, thus far.  He was still picked 7th overall, its not like he should be getting a pass for not playing well, the team invested a FORTUNE to draft him, he better be good.  Mayfield had a far superior rookie season and started off this year with a pretty mediocre game one, against a team that didn't suck so much they allowed him to recover.  Then had an average game, where he shockingly beat the ***** out of the same team Allen barely scraped by in his mediocre game.  

 

Let's breath a second and realize they are both young, both have new weapons and both were high draft picks with lofty expectations.  Both are going to wow you at times and both are going to suck at times.   It's nice that Allen has picked things up and is progressing.  Mayfield will be fine too.

[simpleman]

Wayyy too early in the season to judge either QB. Give it time. The thing that impressed me most about Allen in his progression this year was his throwing the ball away safely under pressure in the 2nd game. That was one of his worst traits last year, knowing when, and when not to, force the ball, or taking off running too soon. Hope to see more out of that in Allen to see his progression.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I've always felt this was a classic case of the more finished product versus the raw potential.

 

You can fill in the blanks as to which one is which. The Browns made their decision and the Bills their own.

 

Personally, I feel it is the job of the team to have some imagination and vision. Some, I understand, are in the I whatt have you done crowd?

Edited September 17, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Beast]

I don’t know who the better WB will be but I am glad we have who we do.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

It's way, way, way too early to make a decision on that yet.

 

However, it's really telling that certainly media personalities have narratives they are sticking too. Mike Tanier at Bleache Report (I know, I know), had a comment along the lines of "Allen can provide one rushing and one passing TD highlight per game, and then miss his receivers by 10 yards for the rest of the game". In their mind, Allen is "inaccurate", despite the fact that he within half a percentage point of Carson Wentz and has a higher completion % than Goff, Aaron Rodgers, Mayfield, Winston, Mayfield, Trubinsky and their new favorite "baller" Kyler Murray. And yet not a peep.

 

If Allen was putting up numbers like what Mayfield has so far, we would be hearing about what a phenomenal bust and waste of a pick he was.

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The main concern about Mayfield coming out of college, was the classic "he is too short" problem.  And while Drew Brees is a radical exception to that rule, it has shown to be a problem for many other talented but shorter QBs.   

Last night we went up against a defensive coordinator who saw Mayfield for a full season live in practice last year.  This has to provide a lot more insight for game planning than simply watching game films.   I can't say I know what the Jets defense specifically did different than other defenses, but Mayfield looked like he was throwing out of hole last night. Quite a few passes knocked down, and a launch angle requiring his receivers to leave their feet ( and pay a big physical price) to catch balls he through out of the pocket. Greg Williams may have provided the defensive template to beat up on Mayfield last night.

I also had some understanding that Mayfield was mobile, but that sure was not on display last night.  

NJ did a good job of disguising what they were doing. They gave a blitz look and dropped into coverage a lot. Baker saw one thing as he scanned the defense and saw something completely different after the snap. He's young and had issues picking that up. 

[zevo]

7 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

Could it be that Mayfield is already has reached his peak. 

100% this is what I thought all last year...he wowed people because his floor and ceiling are pretty close....

[scribo]

OBJ never stays healthy*. Once he goes out, Mayfield's flaws will be magnified. The media has an agenda right now to keep general fans believing the Browns have a shot at being relevant down the stretch. But once the Ls pile up and Mayfield stops having even a couple highlights a week for the recap shows, they will turn on him.

 

*I am not rooting for an injury to OBJ or anyone else.

[billsfan1959]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

Right now: I love our QB, but based on record, stats, and production, the clear winner right now is Jackson. And I was never a fan, and I am  glad we didn't stay put and wait for him, but right now, he is way above the rest.

 

Then again, Roman made Tyrod look good too--until Rex dumped him because he was getting credit over Rex (more evidence of what a disaster he was as a HC).

I think Jackson clearly has talent; however, you are right, Roman has an exceptional ability to create successful gameplans for QBs such as Jackson (go back and watch what he did with Kaepernick and, to a lesser extent, Taylor). In addition, they have played, statistically, the two worse defenses in the NFL. Jackson has far more physical talent than Kaepernick or Taylor, I am just not sure how longterm the success for him may be. It will be interesting to watch. He is certainly lighting it up right now.

[hemma]

I watched part of the Browns last game last year vs Ravens and remember thinking, "What's all the fuss about?  Allen looks better than this guy."

He was making some bad decisions and quite a few very bad throws.  

 

[fergie's ire]

53 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

baker was really inaccurate last night and not the guy i saw play last year. 

I agree.  I did not see much of his play against Tennessee, but I did notice last night that the Jets seemed to be making a concerted effort to get their arms up in front of him.  Even on roll outs, they would stay in front of him and try and deflect his throws.  I wonder if that is a strategy against him....and I wonder if height might start to be a factor.

[billsfan1959]

23 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Slow down.  I am a huge Allen guy but we played two weak opponents.  I believe Allen will surpass all the other '18 Draft QBs but not saying he is there yet.

Why is it that anything positive about Allen has to be qualified with the level of competition he has faced? I don't really hear that very much when we are discussing other QBs...

[zow2]

Fun mid week debate but let’s revisit this after 5 full seasons.  Then we can declare who is better than who.

[mjt328]

7 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

Gents, there’s a long way to go to hash out this 2018 QB class. They’re all going to have some ups and downs from week to week, but there’s one thing that is pretty clear. If anyone truly believed Allen would be capable of developing an accurate short to mid range game he would’ve been the top pick. 

 

His physical ability is far and away superior to any of these other guys, but we were all told he would be air mailing balls into the hospitality tent a la EJ on a regular basis. He’s not completely there just yet, but it sure looks like he’s getting drastically better at things that all the draftniks and analytics folks mocked him for. If he proves to be able to continue hitting these efficient type passes underneath, while still being able to run around and throw lasers all over the field, he’s not really going to have any limitations. The ceiling for this guy appears to be absurd... and the floor seems to be ticking up a little more every week. At this point we’re all just waiting to see if he hits his ceiling and how quickly he gets there. If he gets there while this defense is still in tact, we may not just be battling for a wildcard.

 

This 100x. 

 

We are 13 starts into Josh Allen's career.  Baker Mayfield has 15.  Sam Darnold has 14.  Josh Rosen also has 13.  Lamar Jackson has 9.

All of these guys have lots of room to grow, and any of them could see setbacks once defenses catch on to their tendencies.

 

The interesting thing is... so far in 2019, it seems that Allen and Jackson have shown the most growth and improvement.  They were the guys who supposedly had the most overall potential, but many critics didn't believe they could become efficient passers.  

 

[MDH]

The talk of Mayfield peaking already is ridiculous. Of course he’s not a finished product yet.

 

That said, I could see this team struggling in the next 5 weeks and getting on each other in the press.

 

Upcoming schedule: Rams, Ravens, Niners, Seahawks and Patriots.

 

That could be a recipe for a 2-5 record and some great Baker interviews where he’s all testy.

Edited September 17, 2019 by MDH

[McBean]

It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen.

 

It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy.

 

Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great!

 

Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!”

 

I’m sick of the BS.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

40 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I don’t know who the better WB will be but I am glad we have who we do.

 

...yup...just my personal preference, but I like Allen's humility, respect for the game, diligent work ethic and "WE" versus "ME" attitude......quote was, "OUR team and OUR family"....kid is never seeking the ME spotlight..........

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB.

 

No...just the Bills.  I want the Browns to fail.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

18 minutes ago, McBean said:

It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen.

 

It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy.

 

Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great!

 

Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!”

 

I’m sick of the BS.

 

Offensive tweets not conforming to the appropriate wokeness level, and a desperate need for pre-draft "analytics" to be right.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Mayfield looks confused on every single play this year. 

[Victory Formation]

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/218336-how-would-you-rank-the-qbs-of-the-2018-nfl-draft-today-in-hindsight/#comments

[Royale with Cheese]

Mayfield is extremely accurate on a lot of throws though so he's still dangerous.  But he does make a lot of bonehead plays too.

 

Maybe Palmer's statement that Mayfield always had wide open WR's at Oklahoma is starting to show....

[Ta111]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Mayfield is extremely accurate on a lot of throws though so he's still dangerous.  But he does make a lot of bonehead plays too.

 

Maybe Palmer's statement that Mayfield always had wide open WR's at Oklahoma is starting to show....

But you have to admit he was missing wide open receivers all over the field yesterday.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Ta111 said:

But you have to admit he was missing wide open receivers all over the field yesterday.

 

He was...he didn't look good overall yesterday.  But there was some really good throws too....a lot of 3rd and long conversions.  He still has that playmaking ability.

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, cage said:

I watched most of the Browns/Jets game tonight and this is the first time I saw Baker Mayfield outside of highlight clips.  Color me unimpressed.  I'll have to watch a bit more of him,

 

 

He played last year too, check it out...

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB.

 

Browns are potential wild card contenders so I will definitely not be rooting for them.  They are also the most unlikable group of people ever assembled outside of New England.

[cage]

6 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

So one game and you've made ya mind up? What would you say if a Cleveland fan had only watched Josh Allen's game against Green Bay last year or only saw quarters 2 and 3 of the Jest game? 

 

We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore.  That's not a relevant comparison

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by cage

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

I agree.  I did not see much of his play against Tennessee, but I did notice last night that the Jets seemed to be making a concerted effort to get their arms up in front of him.  Even on roll outs, they would stay in front of him and try and deflect his throws.  I wonder if that is a strategy against him....and I wonder if height might start to be a factor.

 

This.   Baker is accurate on throws where he has a clean pocket or when he rolls out and has clear vision.  Brees is able to kill it with his elongated drop-backs and precision up/down accuracy, but as others have pointed out, that's the exception to the rule with short QB's. 

 

With them neglecting their OL, it will be interesting to see if more teams flood the passing lanes with hands up pass rush/contain.  Then, how does Baker adjust.

[Wayne Cubed]

7 minutes ago, cage said:

 

We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore.  That's not a relevant comparison

 

You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet?

[cage]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet?

 

For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play.  I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft.  I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield.  I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills.  

 

However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons.  However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark.

[Buffalo Junction]

6 minutes ago, cage said:

 

For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play.  I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft.  I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield.  I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills.  

 

However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons.  However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark.

A few others commented on this... but... Gregg Williams. His defenses generally do well against young QBs. Plus, he had a full year to learn Mayfield’s limitations and all of Kitchens tendencies. We can say what we want about Greggo, but he’s likely had this game circled on the calendar since the schedule was released. 

 

As for who the best QBs from the class are. I’m waiting till after year three to make a judgement. I love Allen. We’ll see if the Jackson/Roman offense gets figured out. Darnold is cuckolded by Gase. I can’t foresee Mayfield being a full bust. Rosen though.... I think Rosen will be the big bust unless something changes dramatically.