Has Shakir overtaken Davis

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

I hope so. Davis had his moment of fame. He was a one-hit wonder. He's not fast; he doesn't run great routes; and he doesn't have good hands. Plus he doesn't seem like great leader. He had his all-time great game and we'll always remember that moment of awesome.

 

But he's practice squad material at this point. Time to move on.

 

 

[SCBills]

Shakir has won me over.  He just makes plays and you can tell Allen is beginning to trust him.  
 

A lot of Deebo-lite in his game. 

 

Best case scenario is teams start to see the emergence of Shakir, Kincaid and RB passing game, resulting in defensive changes .. which could emulate the Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, Davis dynamic that Gabe had some big games in. 

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Mynamemike said:

Receiver and safety need to be high priority this offseason imo.  Draft or free agency we’re gonna need an influx of young talent.  

 

draft WR, FA safety (deep WR draft, safety also less in FA than WR likely). 

[Prospector]

2 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

HE is saying that Davis was fantastic in the role of 3rd WR

Fantastic at not being thrown to? Yes… he was also fantastic at not catching easy passes that became turn overs, that lead to a close loss. Very Fantastic 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Prospector

[NickelCity]

WR in RD 1 + a reliable veteran outside possession receiver in FA, and an RT in FA to boot. We can hope, right?

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

Kincaid has passed Davis as the #2. And Shakir is making a case for himself to be given #3 level targets.

 

 

 

In my eyes, right now Diggs is the #1, Kincaid is the #2 (a TE in name only), and Shakir is the #3. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

The offense should run through Diggs, Kincaid, Cook, and Shakir going forward. 

 

I still marvel at the amount of people on this board who were banging the table for his release because he had a quiet Pre-Season. Goes to show how much Pre-Season does not matter.

 

You should own the fact that you were the head of the Gabe Davis defense team here on TSW a month ago before you marvel at detractors of any other Bills receiver.

 

You were quite adamant about how Gabe Davis was an excellent WR2...........pointing to stats after the Tampa game(when the Bills were the only team in the league to have played 8 games yet) and suggesting he was almost a WR1 quality WR2!

 

Now you've cut Gabe out of the offense entirely. 

 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You should own the fact that you were the head of the Gabe Davis defense team here on TSW a month ago before you marvel at detractors of any other Bills receiver.

 

You were quite adamant about how Gabe Davis was an excellent WR2...........pointing to stats after the Tampa game(when the Bills were the only team in the league to have played 8 games yet) and suggesting he was almost a WR1 quality WR2!

 

Now you've cut Gabe out of the offense entirely. 

 

Look back at those posts. I defended his production as a #2 WR amongst other #2 WR's in the league at the time. I argued that he (at the time) was a #2 WR with decent #2 WR production, by comparison to others. And that what you and others truly wanted was not a productive #2 WR, but two guys who could be #1's on other teams.

 

At no point did I say he was Elite or that he was great. At no point did I say there was zero merit to those who pointed out faults in his game. Just that (again, at the time) the idea that he was completely worthless was a bit much.

 

To the point where saying ANYTHING positive about him was somehow championing him and grounds for having insults slung in your direction.

 

But then the drops returned. And his lack of separation got worse. Then Kincaid's usage grew and as he became more and more comfortable in the offense and the team became more and more comfortable with him, it's clear he's the much better secondary receiver. As he was drafted to be. His time came quicker than expected and I'm thrilled with it.

 

*I've* cut him out of the conversation lately because the TEAM ITSELF has cut him out of the conversation. And the offense HAS been working better with Kincaid being looked at as the #2 option and Shakir as the #3. And if it's working, why go away from it?

Edited November 20, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I said all off-season long, the slot guy whoever that is should be the second leading WR on the team.  That may need to be a combination of Shakir and Kincaid.  We will have to see how Kincaid is used when Knox is back.  Knox should be third in targets. 

We want Davis to lead the team in YPC not targets.  

 

Next season let Davis walk and draft WR in first round.  He plays opposite of Diggs for a couple years and grows into a true #1.  Kincaid and Shakir are fine for the slot for several years.  

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

For whatever reason people have started to use WR3 as the starter in the slot and the backup outside interchangeably. 
 

But like I said above, if believe that if we use our slot guys (Kincaid, Shakir, Cook) effectively Gabe Davis is an OK guy on the outside to stretch the field and run a lot of deep routes. I think there is talent in the group. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t try to upgrade him. I would. I’d most definitely take somebody high in the draft.

It’ll be an interesting wrinkle moving forward if Brady sticks Shakir in the slot and Kincaid outside in 12 personnel once Knox is back. Certainly some cool possibilities with matchups and motion with that type of setup. 

[Chandler#81]

We know what we have with Gabe. A good blocker who on rare occasion has a spectacular game. He’s also usually INVISIBLE! Shakir, in his second season is even better that Davis in his 2nd year. Fuggetaboutit for a new contract for Davis. Best players play. Shakir has shaken off the drops and earned the starting position. I believe he’s on a 3 year contract, meaning he walks after next season. 
 

I get it. Young players don’t/rarely start for McCautious. It’s past time he loses his blinders on this aspect. Shakir has definitely improved his route running and has deceptive speed. He, Diggs & Kincaid are our best 3 receivers. Why are we settling for less than our best players starting?

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

You know they have different roles on the field right? And that Shakir might not be as good against a better corner right? Cole Beasley would have gotten destroyed as an outside wr but thrived in the slot because you can different matchups. 
 

Everything is working fine. No need to change things up.

[The Wiz]

With Knox coming back soon, someone is going to start seeing less time.  Shakir is starting to earn the reps and targets and Davis is basically one foot out the door already.

 

Diggs is always going to out there and Kincaid is pushing for the rookie TE receiving record (needs 30 more receptions in his final 6 games).

 

Cut Davis's snaps and split them with Shakir and Knox when needed.  Keep building the chemistry since Shakir, Knox and Kincaid are all going to still be here next year and then get a true WR2 in the draft.

Edited November 20, 2023 by The Wiz

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

It looks like some of the gameplan was to target short passes to harp on the Jets defense deficiency at the LB level. Diggs also didn't have a great game.

 

But overall I agree. I think we have seen the top end of Gabe Davis, and he is clearly not built for the #2 role. Can Shakir surpass him once he's the focus? Who knows, but he's playing with a spark that Gabe isn't and will 99% guarantee that Davis will not be back next season. GMs get silly with #2 WR money, and I am convinced someone will flash a price tag that we would be fools to match. So, let's see what the hot guy can do.

[Process]

Shakir played 74% of snaps. They have different roles. 

 

The time to replace Gabe is next offseason.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

It looks like some of the gameplan was to target short passes to harp on the Jets defense deficiency at the LB level. Diggs also didn't have a great game.

 

But overall I agree. I think we have seen the top end of Gabe Davis, and he is clearly not built for the #2 role. Can Shakir surpass him once he's the focus? Who knows, but he's playing with a spark that Gabe isn't and will 99% guarantee that Davis will not be back next season. GMs get silly with #2 WR money, and I am convinced someone will flash a price tag that we would be fools to match. So, let's see what the hot guy can do.

Shakir is not fast enough to be an outside receiver. He would be awful as a number 2. It would be lkke when we thought Josh Reed (one of my least favorite bills of all time) could be a number 2 and was so awful. 

[Bangarang]

Gabe’s been doing a lot of cardio on the field this year. Dare I say he’s the Lee Smith of WRs? Really curious to see what we do with Knox more than Gabe.

[sullim4]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

With Knox coming back soon, someone is going to start seeing less time.  Shakir is starting to earn the reps and targets and Davis is basically one foot out the door already.

 

Diggs is always going to out there and Kincaid is pushing for the rookie TE receiving record (needs 30 more receptions in his final 6 games).

 

Cut Davis's snaps and split them with Shakir and Knox when needed. 

 

To Biscuit's earlier point - I don't think it's as simple as that.  Shakir is clearly contributing more than Davis, but it is unclear whether he'd do so as a #2 WR.  He's been thriving in the slot while Davis has been the #2 WR.  Davis has been drawing coverage despite his issues with pass catching.

 

I still believe that Knox is the odd man out and you keep Davis out there with Shakir and Kincaid.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Yes. Shakir is WR2 going forward.

[BBFL]

Gabe “Decoy” Davis going forward. Please and thanks!

 

Guy is a competent run blocker and that was the biggest change in this game… A successful run game and actually sticking with it. 

Cook and the OLine had a heck of a game. 

[WacArnolds]

12 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

Keep Shakir in the slot and go after a legit #2 in the draft, we need to think about another #1 too, I have to imagine we'll have another diggs off season saga.

Of media creation only, maybe. We're lucky to have Diggs but regardless would be good to draft a guy that can eventually become your new stud.

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

To Biscuit's earlier point - I don't think it's as simple as that.  Shakir is clearly contributing more than Davis, but it is unclear whether he'd do so as a #2 WR.  He's been thriving in the slot while Davis has been the #2 WR.  Davis has been drawing coverage despite his issues with pass catching.

 

I still believe that Knox is the odd man out and you keep Davis out there with Shakir and Kincaid.

I guess it's really going to come down to how Brady wants to call the offense with Knox back in the lineup.  If they are going to look like they did last night then yes, he's the odd man out.  If they are going to go back to the 12 personnel, then it is going to come down to Davis vs Shakir.  Even if Shakir isn't an outside receiver, I still prefer his ability to run more than 3 routes.

[Matt_In_NH]

Just throw to the open guy.

[Ramza86]

Davis being his size and running routes is necessary for the success of others.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

They will let Gabe walk this year and draft somebody in the first round this is a very promising group of receivers coming out

[DasNootz]

If assigning the number based upon targets and production - Shakir has already proven to be ahead Davis.  If we're saying a WR2 is a deep threat guy, we currently don't have one with any level of constancy.  

 

Ideal target distribution going forward: 
Diggs
Kincaid
Shakir
Davis
Everyone else until proven differently (including Knox).

 

Davis and Shakir both block well.  I think Shakir runs sharper routes.  Neither is near Diggs in this category though.  Shakir also seems to have better hands and creates separation.  Davis is a busted coverage deep threat at this point.

[78thealltimegreat]

If you review Josh’s ints many of them are simply him looking to get Gabe involved in the offense. 
When he doesn’t look Gabes way and just take what the D gives him at times he’s unstoppable.

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

27 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Gabe “Decoy” Davis going forward. Please and thanks!

 

Guy is a competent run blocker and that was the biggest change in this game… A successful run game and actually sticking with it. 

Cook and the OLine had a heck of a game. 

That's is a pretty sad way to characterize a supposed #2 receiver: "a competent run blocker."

 

Chris Simms said on his podcast multiple times that Gabe is not a legit #2. Said Shakir is a stronger option on the boundary and Davis should be in the slot.  If all Gabe brings to the table is run blocking it's time to move on from him. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by MarkKelso'sHelmet

[Roundybout]

Nate Geary had this discussion on the Extra Point Show last night and basically echoed this sentiment. 

 

Take away the Bucs game and since Week 5, he's got 6 catches on 17 targets for 83 yards. That's it. It's pathetic. 

 

Even with the Bucs game, he's only got 15 catches on 29 targets for 170 and a TD. 

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

12 hours ago, JMM said:

Yes, BUT he is not an outside wr, he thrives in the slot. Leave him there, stuck with Davis rest of year

Are we sure? Chris Simms said on his podcast that they should try Davis in the slot and put Shakir on the boundary. Why can't Shakir play on the outside? I'm honestly asking. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by MarkKelso'sHelmet

[FLFan]

12 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

How was Davis fantastic with zero catches on zero targets? Gabe is that you?

He was referring to when Davis was the third outside WR, not to yesterday’s performance.  

[blacklabel]

During the off-season I would've said I'd be surprised if Beane didn't work out an extension with Davis. Now... I'm pretty sure they're gonna move on from him. I think there were rumors that they were aiming to extend him before the season but I've no idea if that's true. 

 

Obviously he's capable of some great games but consistency seems to be his big obstacle. One game he goes off for 8 grabs, 125 yards and a TD. Then he follows up with one catch on five targets, a drop, a deflection off his hands for a pick, a fumble, etc. 

 

I've liked Gabe since they've drafted him and like I said, he's obviously had his moments. I think they move on, though. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by blacklabel

[starrymessenger]

No question WR (#2) should be at the top of Beane's shopping list. I would like to go whole hogg. Pursue Tee Higgins if as expected he's available in FA. Then take advantage of next years strong draft at the position. I'd like Coleman. Don't see much diff between him and Odunze.

As for Gabe and yesterday's game, looked to me that Brady sat down with both Gabe and Diggs during the week to let them know that the O would be looking to target the TEs and slot receivers more so that Brady can start figuring out how better to gameplan going forward and see just what these Dorsey underused resources can contribute to a coherent and diversified offence. So I think both guys were shut down yesterday but as Brady develops his thinking we will see them more again in their usual roles, esp. Diggs.

Edited November 20, 2023 by starrymessenger

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

12 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Gabe was amazing in Shakir's role of defenses not paying attention to him.

Starting to feel like Richie Cunningham's older brother Chuck. 🤔

[billsbackto81]

13 hours ago, Whkfc said:

Another strong game for Shakir and another no-show game from Gabe Davis. Have we seen a change at the #2 receiver for the Bills?

No.

 

But he has made Harty an overpaid afterthought. 

[Bruffalo]

14 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

If assigning the number based upon targets and production - Shakir has already proven to be ahead Davis.  If we're saying a WR2 is a deep threat guy, we currently don't have one with any level of constancy.  

 

Ideal target distribution going forward: 
Diggs
Kincaid
Shakir
Davis
Everyone else until proven differently (including Knox).

 

Davis and Shakir both block well.  I think Shakir runs sharper routes.  Neither is near Diggs in this category though.  Shakir also seems to have better hands and creates separation.  Davis is a busted coverage deep threat at this point.

Shakir is considerably faster than Davis, at least in game speed.  

 

I think Knox is still a great RZ target, but Kincaid should get the majority of looks on the field.  It will be good to move on from the 6 O-Lineman Jumbo package and back to 12 when we're close to the goal line.  

[JaCrispy]

23 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Davis being his size and running routes is necessary for the success of others.

We can (and WILL) do better…👍

[SCBills]

Just now, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

Are we sure? Chris Simms said on his podcast that they should try Davis in the slot and put Shakir on the boundary. Why can't Shakir play on the outside? I'm honestly asking. 

 

Shakir can play outside, he's just ideally suited to play from the slot.  

 

That being said, it certainly seems like moving Gabe inside could have added benefits of keeping him closer to the line for blocking, as well as giving him easier releases.

 

Problem is, I don't know that Allen trust Davis anymore to throw to him in the middle of the field.  We can't have 1st and Goal's turn into deflected pass interceptions against the teams we have coming up on our schedule.  

[zow2]

Gabe is not getting separation.  Josh is not going to throw into a 6 inch window just to feed Gabe.  He's not going to risk INTs or incompletions going forward.

[WhoTom]

I think Beane will draft a WR early. Let Gabe test FA. Based on this season, I don't think he'll be getting any big offers, so if the Bills wanted to keep him in a diminished receiving role, he'd probably be cheap.

 

As for Shakir: get that man the ball!