Fixed/Rigged NFL game?

[Gary Marangi]

 

[quinnearlysghost88]

9 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Hard evidence would convince me. Do you have any of that? The NFL is an enormous operation. If anyone (refs, league officials, the Rog himself) were on the take there would be word of it by now. 
 

Until then I chalk it up to plain old incompetence.

You should watch Tim Donaghy on Netflix bc a small group of people affected the outcome of a ton of games. It only got out after years. For one crew or even one ref to make a critical holding call in a Super Bowl is extremely easy. 

[TheFunPolice]

I don't believe there is any league-wide conspiracy. If there was, the Bills would have been scripted to win a Super Bowl at some point, probably #4 vs Dallas. 

 

That said, NFL refs, more so than any other sport,  have incredible power to swing a game and have it at least be debatable if they were so inclined. 

 

A team might score 24-30 points, split between 4-5 scoring drives. the rest of their possessions are punts or turnovers. All it takes is a timely holding call on offense (which can at least be debated as to whether it's ticky tack but there's always enough there to say "well, he did hold"). It doesn't even need to be on a scoring play. An 8 yard gain early in a drive on 2nd down becomes 2nd and 18 instead of 3rd and 2. That can wipe out a drive. 

 

Suddenly those 24 points a team would have earned become 17. Maybe the penalty happens in the first quarter and nobody even remembers it. But it could be enough to swing a game, especially between 2 great teams where the games are so close. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Super bowl ending last year was pretty bad - that holding call at the end just abruptly ended the game when they swallowed their whistles all game long.  Pretty weak call, and then factoring in that it was 3rd and 8 with 1:54 left, and philly having a timeout and moving the ball mostly at will... just felt fishy to me.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Not at the table Karlos]

36 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

The link here is to the Bills vs Redskins SB, showing a bunch of obvious defensive pass interference fouls by the Skins, and none of them were called. I remember watching that game and yelling at the TV in disbelief that the refs were not calling those fouls. At halftime, running into the locker room, Marv Levy seeks out a ref and repeatedly tells him "You've been bought." I agree.

Don't have the rules from back then in front of me but those weren't as bad as you're making them out to be. Some were a touch early but it's 50/50 if it gets called. The Reed one where he threw his helmet wasn't at all. The defender can go for the ball which they did on all but one. I wouldn't have called them either. 

[TheFunPolice]

Sadly, the Bills got dominated in the Washington and first Dallas Super Bowls. Refs weren't really a factor. 

 

Those teams were like going up against a Pro Bowl squad that cared about the game. 

[Ya Digg?]

Oh they’re definitely rigged, I can just picture it now:

Goodell and his henchmen meet with the refs in a dark alley. Goodell throws down his cigarette and tells the refs to make sure certain calls are made. The refs say “that’s sounds like a really good plan boss” take their briefcase of money and walk away. For the really egregious calls, they put the new guy on those because they know there will be death threats. Then after the game Goodell and his cronies go into the losing team’s locker room, rough up a couple of the players, and tell them they “ain’t see nuthin” then walk out 

 

it’s almost too easy 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ya Digg?

[Steptide]

There's one game that comes to mind that I think the refs definitely helped the Patriots win, and no it's not the tuck rule game, although you could make an argument for that one too. It was a 2007 game, pats vs Ravens. Pats were undefeated on their way to a 16 win season. Ravens, who were terrible that year, somehow had this game won, when on a 4th down incomplete pass from Brady, the refs threw a pi flag. It was the most bs thjng I've ever seen. Of course the Pats get a 1st and goal at the one yard line, score and win the game 🙄. First time I watched a game and really thought the refs intentionally helped a team win a game 

[frostbitmic]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Wow. I never saw this, that was brutal.   

Looks like a typical Brady era game. If those were patriot receivers there would've been a lot of flags.

 

Good for Marv telling them they were bought.

[frostbitmic]

I recall a number of years ago when Arthur Blank, owner of the Falcons made a comment that he wished the Falcons had been picked to be in the Super Bowl.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

I have wondered about some missed meaningless field goals and extra points at the end of games that correlate to betting lines.  The frequency of garbage time scoring when the loser hadn't moved the ball all game seems pretty high as well. For people that don't gamble on games, it is almost invisible but it happens more than seems coincidental.  Point shaving that doesn't effect the outcome of the game is the easiest form of cheating.  It requires only one conspirator and can be written off as someone just screwed up.  With the amount of money wagered on every NFL game, I find it hard to believe that it doesn't occur.  I think the NFL works very hard to keep this out of the league.

[Your Brown Eye]

9 hours ago, Tuco said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-uKBIsXzA4

 

 

It would have said something if the Bills had walked off the field and never came back on. I am one who does not always cry foul, but this is one game that makes my blood boil, this one drives me nuts.

[Don Otreply]

I would describe it as heavily massaged officiating from time to time, rather than fixed…, 😁👍

[Charles Romes]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

The link here is to the Bills vs Redskins SB, showing a bunch of obvious defensive pass interference fouls by the Skins, and none of them were called. I remember watching that game and yelling at the TV in disbelief that the refs were not calling those fouls. At halftime, running into the locker room, Marv Levy seeks out a ref and repeatedly tells him "You've been bought." I agree.

In fairness the Washington defender was turned around looking at the QB and arguably making a play on the ball in those SB 26 calls.  I’m okay with the whistle being swallowed where it’s arguable the defender was making a play on the ball and/or is turned around looking at the QB. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

You should watch Tim Donaghy on Netflix bc a small group of people affected the outcome of a ton of games. It only got out after years. For one crew or even one ref to make a critical holding call in a Super Bowl is extremely easy. 

Yeah, and Donaghy got caught. How did Donaghy get caught? Because people talked to the FBI. Which was my point. You claim how “easy” it would be for a ref to throw a game, but these nefarious things are never a secret for long. Parties in the know will eventually talk, for a whole variety of reasons. So until that happens in the NFL, I’m not assuming it’s going on.

[BaaadThingsMan]

The "tuck rule" fumble game never sat well with me. 

 

At the time, I was watching with a large group of Raiders fans and I celebrated a bit too hardily in hind sight. 

 

The Raiders got screwed and it's easy to see why imo.

 

It was just a few months after 9/11 and the country was still reeling, recovering from the events from that day.

 

They simply could not have the "Raiders" beating the "Patriots", who also happened to wear Red White and Blue, the colors of our countries flag. 🤔 

 

Not so coincidental imo but conspiracies be damned I think it was a set up looking back now.

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

I've always considered the conspiracy theories that the NFL, and/or referees are fixing games to be silly. Football games represent an enormous amount of business revenue, not just for the NFL teams, and television networks, but for the countless ancillary businesses as well. The NFL does have some anti-trust exemption, but it is not a blanket exemption. For the NFL to rig even a single, regular season game would constitute significant felonies, anti-trust violations, and interstate commerce laws, as well as civil litigations. But a playoff game, or a Super Bowl game? Just the legal gambling ramifications alone would be mind-boggling. Why would the NFL even consider such an enormous risk, just for the sake of a narrative? 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

10 hours ago, major said:

Have you ever watched an NFL game that left you convinced that it might have been  fixed/or rigged? If so, which one/ones?

 

It could be sabotage, missed calls or blown calls- officiating, stolen playbooks, spying, etc…

 

My list: 

-Super bowl 37: Raiders and Tampa Bay

-Super Bowl XL: Steelers and Seahawks

-Super Bowl 36: Patriots and Rams

-Super Bowl 50: Broncos and Panthers

-2001 AFC divisional game: Patriots and Oakland 

 

 

 

I think a lot of people are in denial and don’t want to see something so beloved to them become tainted, but I think it’s delusional to think that a pro football game has never had the outcome altered in some way by an outside source. I’ve seen some very ticky tacky **** called in big games at the most crucial times. It really makes you wonder. The Seattle/Pittsburgh SB comes to mind. 

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, KCNC said:

That Saints playoff game where Robey-Coleman did not get called for DPI.  That was crazy.

 

That was makeup call for the phantom DPI that lost us the Jags game in TO.  

[Buffalo ill]

Yes.

 

 

[1ManRaid]

Reg season loss to the Jaguars a couple seasons ago is criminally underrated as a "worst officiated game ever" candidate.  Jags got away with no less than 3 uncalled obvious false starts on one (I think scoring) drive alone.  I'm talking the right tackle repeatedly being a full yard or more off his starting position by the time the ball is snapped.  I wholly admit we didn't play our best game, but the Jags still needed the mother of all striped advantages to capitalize on that.

[BillsShredder83]

10 hours ago, major said:

Have you ever watched an NFL game that left you convinced that it might have been  fixed/or rigged? If so, which one/ones?

 

It could be sabotage, missed calls or blown calls- officiating, stolen playbooks, spying, etc…

 

My list: 

-Super bowl 37: Raiders and Tampa Bay

-Super Bowl XL: Steelers and Seahawks

-Super Bowl 36: Patriots and Rams

-Super Bowl 50: Broncos and Panthers

-2001 AFC divisional game: Patriots and Oakland 

 

 

 

Your title of fixed/rigged is too strong and bringing the neg reactions.

 

Stolen playbooks/spying has been beat to death, so yes.

 

Point shaving? thaaaaaaaaaaaats where it gets real interesting!  Do i think thats happened?  Id be willing to bet it has several times

 

The other method id assume takes place is insider info wagers. Someone is more hurt than the media knows, tip goes out.

 

Or, certain ref has a gripe with a certain teams coach, or has been talking amongst the other refs that hes "sick and tired of watching that Seahawks secondary holding and getting away with it".  All the sudden that crew draws a Seattle game.

 

The guys a tool but the Tim Donnaghy book was superrrrrrrrr interesting. His point was you didnt HAVE to make a bad call to win these kinds of bets.

 

Certain refs hated Iverson's mouth, he had a tendency to carry the ball.  Angry ref draws that game, pick spread against 6'ers.

 

 

The single most obvious game fixing ever was 2002 Lakers/Kings WCFinals game 6.  The league rigged that game for sure.  The increased revenue of an extra game (game 7 at that) was too big to ignore. NBA doesnt want a superstar-less small market team in the finals, over a huge market team with THE superstar.  NBA always wants to extend playoff series, elimination games at one point were prime games to target against the spread for the underdog..... but at this point, its such common knowledge belief, that its already figured into the spread thats set

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I've always considered the conspiracy theories that the NFL, and/or referees are fixing games to be silly. Football games represent an enormous amount of business revenue, not just for the NFL teams, and television networks, but for the countless ancillary businesses as well. The NFL does have some anti-trust exemption, but it is not a blanket exemption. For the NFL to rig even a single, regular season game would constitute significant felonies, anti-trust violations, and interstate commerce laws, as well as civil litigations. But a playoff game, or a Super Bowl game? Just the legal gambling ramifications alone would be mind-boggling. Why would the NFL even consider such an enormous risk, just for the sake of a narrative? 

Exactly. The NFL’s popularity is such that it simply doesn’t need to push or fix any specific outcomes. People will continue to watch no matter who wins. 
 

Conversely, the astronomical risks to the league, both monetary and legal, if they in fact did engineer outcomes makes this thread and discussion ridiculous. 

[Beast]

Bad calls? Yes.

 

Rigged? No way.

[Nextmanup]

I will say this: if you want to have immediate and direct control over the outcome of a game, all you need is the referee to make a key call or 2 at the right time of the game.

 

1 person needs to compromised--that's it---and you can control the outcome of a LOT of games.

 

This entire league lives right in the middle.  A few plays each game dictate the outcome, most of the time.

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I've always considered the conspiracy theories that the NFL, and/or referees are fixing games to be silly. Football games represent an enormous amount of business revenue, not just for the NFL teams, and television networks, but for the countless ancillary businesses as well. The NFL does have some anti-trust exemption, but it is not a blanket exemption. For the NFL to rig even a single, regular season game would constitute significant felonies, anti-trust violations, and interstate commerce laws, as well as civil litigations. But a playoff game, or a Super Bowl game? Just the legal gambling ramifications alone would be mind-boggling. Why would the NFL even consider such an enormous risk, just for the sake of a narrative? 

 

especially when with 53 players on a team, plus coaches, there is always some narrative the league can celebrate 

[Bills!Win!]

Stevie Johnson says that God rigged the Steelers game 

[machine gun kelly]

There hasn’t been a rigged professional sports game since the 1919 World Series.

 

it’s like a fish story.  It’s not real.

[leonbus23]

Rigged? No.

 

Part of human error includes unconscious bias. 

 

If we look to sociological studies of unconscious bias, it seems to be a real thing. 

 

It's sort of like how people will wait longer to honk at people in expensive cars compared to people with junkers. (This was a real study.)

 

In NFL, it could be referees calling less penalties on a successful coach and/or team compared to a crap coach/team. 

 

It would be very hard to gather concrete evidence to really support it without it being a tautological argument. 

 

Why did the Patriots win six super bowls?

 

Because it's rigged.

 

Why is the nfl rigged?

 

Because the Patriots won six super bowls.

 

On a side note, these arguments are used all the time. 

 

Why are people poor?

 

Because they're lazy.

 

Why are people lazy?

 

Because they're poor. 

 

So, the bias against the Patriots and the poor serve as the foundation to formulate the tautological argument. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by leonbus23

[hondo in seattle]

11 hours ago, major said:

I’ve never seen that levy quote. Wow! 

 

The video was compelling.  I didn't remember us getting screwed so badly.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I truly believe the NFL follows “booking” style where they try to “push” the big market teams. Is it rigged? Absolutely not. Does NFL have their preferred winners? 100%.

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

I would tend to agree, no proof no credibility. But, that Steelers/Seahawks SB is pretty head scratching. If there was one that was fixed that one would be my choice. 

The Steelers/ Seahawks was egregious well beyond incompetence. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

19 minutes ago, leonbus23 said:

Rigged? No.

 

Part of human error includes unconscious bias. 

 

If we look to sociological studies of unconscious bias, it seems to be a real thing. 

 

It's sort of like how people will wait longer to honk at people in expensive cars compared to people with junkers. (This was a real study.)

 

In NFL, it could be referees calling less penalties on a successful coach and/or team compared to a crap coach/team. 

 

It would be very hard to gather concrete evidence to really support it without it being a tautological argument. 

 

Why did the Patriots win six super bowls?

 

Because it's rigged.

 

Why is the nfl rigged?

 

Because the Patriots won six super bowls.

 

On a side note, these arguments are used all the time. 

 

Why are people poor?

 

Because they're lazy.

 

Why are people lazy?

 

Because they're poor. 

 

So, the bias against the Patriots and the poor serve as the foundation to formulate the tautological argument. 

Very well said! 

[GoBills808]

no

[MJS]

Rigged? No. Have there been individual players, coaches, refs, etc. that have been compromised at certain times? Probably.

 

I'm pretty certain that 99% of the people involved in the actual games are giving it their all to win / do their jobs to the best of their abilities, with varying success.

 

For one thing, the players and coaches make so much money now that making a bribe worth it for them becomes extremely expensive. And you have such limited job security that it might not be worth it anyways. If you aren't winning constantly, you get fired and replaced.

 

Refs? There is more potential there, but again, if you are consistently blowing calls on purpose, that is going to anger the league, the owners, other officials, etc, and you will get targeted pretty quickly for an investigation and your job would be on the line.

 

No doubt that there is corruption and cheating in the NFL, but it is virtually all geared toward trying to gain an advantage for your team to win, rather than fixing games to make money. There is already plenty of money to be made in the NFL.

[Irv]

EJ Manuel making more completions to the Jags than Bills at Wembley was rigged.  Nobody could play that bad on purpose.  

 

Sincerely,

Peterman

[BillsSbSoon]

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Don't have the rules from back then in front of me but those weren't as bad as you're making them out to be. Some were a touch early but it's 50/50 if it gets called. The Reed one where he threw his helmet wasn't at all. The defender can go for the ball which they did on all but one. I wouldn't have called them either. 

I kinda agree the first two were bang bang and the third looks the worst but he’s going for the ball. If I was watching the game I’d be going nuts for pi though cause it just as easily could’ve been called. I def believe games have been outright fixed and others “influenced”. It’s too obvious to me and especially obvious if you make bets and know what the line is. There’s no way Vegas could constantly be that accurate. Along with the games

mentioned here I can think of countless others. Wasn’t there a guy in the 80s in Minnesota that was going to blow the whistle on fixed games and then was found dead a few months later? Remember, in the court system the nfl is not regarded as a sport, it’s listed as entertainment.

Edited August 10, 2023 by BillsSbSoon

[mjt328]

I guess it depends on your definition of what a "rigged" game actually is.

 

Are we talking about WWE-style scripts, with Roger Goodell working with owners, coaches, players, refs, etc. to fix a pre-determined outcome?  Considering the large number of people who would need to stay quiet, that seems more than unlikely.

 

However, is it possible that refs have occasionally been bought-off and paid to swing some games (or scores) a certain direction?  Is it possible that players have been paid under the table to drop a pass, miss a block/tackle, fumble the ball?  We know it has occurred in other sports (basketball, boxing for example).  So why would football somehow be exempt?  Especially with the huge money gambling generates.

 

We know that NFL refs give favorable calls to the league's biggest stars.  Ed Hochuli allegedly told Cam Newton he wasn't old enough to get a roughing call.  And it's more than obvious that Tom Brady was babied by the officials for many years, after his knee injury.  Many fans observe that star corners get called for pass interference less, even when playing very physical.  Star receivers seem to get the benefit of the doubt more often on questionable catches.  

 

I've heard many in the sports media admit league officials want success from bigger market teams (New York, Dallas, etc.)  That doesn't necessarily mean they are going to fix games in a certain direction.  But it may influence some decisions.  Does anyone remember when Goodell steered Michael Vick away from joining the Bills/Bengals, following his suspension?  

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

Bills vs Texans wild card game was another rough one.  There have been some bad ones but I’ll give you one I thought was rigged for the Bills and it’s the only game I ever remember watching that I felt the refs were biased for Buffalo in over three decades of watching Bills football it was the 1998 Bills vs 49ers game were the Bills were big underdogs at 0-3.  The game started a winning streak for the Bills and turned around the season.  I remember in that game they called just about everything on San Fran that I actually felt embarassed for them.  I think the sports headline of the D&C on Monday read "Bills flag down 49ers" or something really close to that.  It’s the one game that stands out to me as being "rigged" or biased for the Bills.  

[Fleezoid]

19 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I guess it depends on your definition of what a "rigged" game actually is.

 

Are we talking about WWE-style scripts, with Roger Goodell working with owners, coaches, players, refs, etc. to fix a pre-determined outcome?  Considering the large number of people who would need to stay quiet, that seems more than unlikely.

 

However, is it possible that refs have occasionally been bought-off and paid to swing some games (or scores) a certain direction?  Is it possible that players have been paid under the table to drop a pass, miss a block/tackle, fumble the ball?  We know it has occurred in other sports (basketball, boxing for example).  So why would football somehow be exempt?  Especially with the huge money gambling generates.

 

We know that NFL refs give favorable calls to the league's biggest stars.  Ed Hochuli allegedly told Cam Newton he wasn't old enough to get a roughing call.  And it's more than obvious that Tom Brady was babied by the officials for many years, after his knee injury.  Many fans observe that star corners get called for pass interference less, even when playing very physical.  Star receivers seem to get the benefit of the doubt more often on questionable catches.  

 

I've heard many in the sports media admit league officials want success from bigger market teams (New York, Dallas, etc.)  That doesn't necessarily mean they are going to fix games in a certain direction.  But it may influence some decisions.  Does anyone remember when Goodell steered Michael Vick away from joining the Bills/Bengals, following his suspension?  

 

 

That comment got me thinking. There are 12 teams that have never won a Super Bowl. I took the team market value list from the other thread and highlighted those teams. There's a bit of correlation. 

 

1. (-) Dallas - 9.20 billion - 20%

2. (+2) NY Giants - 7.04 - 23%

3. (-1) LA Rams - 6.94 - 17%

4. (-1) New England - 6.70 - 14%

5. (-) San Francisco - 6.15 - 19%

6. (+1) NY Jets - 6.11 - 27%

7. (+1) Washington - 6.05 - 27%

8. (-2) Chicago - 6.00 - 20%

9. (-) Philadelphia - 5.95 - 27%

10. (+5) Las Vegas - 5.77 - 41%

11. (-) Houston - 5.35 - 16%

12. (+4) Miami - 5.24 - 29%

13. (+4) Atlanta - 5.15 - 33%

14. (-4) Denver - 4.87 - 5%

15. (-3) Seattle - 4.82 - 10%

16. (-3) Pittsburgh - 4.80 - 13%

17. (-3) Green Bay - 4.75 - 13%

18. (+1) LA Chargers - 4.63 - 28%

19. (+1) Kansas City - 4.52 - 28%

20. (-2) Minnesota - 4.43 - 19%

21. (+2) Tennessee - 4.37 - 33%

22. (-) Carolina - 4.27 - 27%

23. (-2) Baltimore - 4.24 - 23%

24. (+2) Indianapolis - 4.21 - 30%

25. (+2) Cleveland - 4.20 - 32%

26. (-1) New Orleans - 4.19 - 29%

27. (+1) Arizona - 4.17 - 32%

28. (-4) Tampa Bay - 4.15 - 27%

29. (-) Buffalo - 4.13 - 38%

30. (+1) Detroit - 4.10 - 43%

31. (-1) Jacksonville - 4.04 - 37%

32. (-) Cincinnati - 4.00 - 41%