Chargers @ Jaguars Playoff Game Thread (i.e. NOT a Bills thread;-)

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

JuJu and MVS are not scrubs. But they are JAGs. There is nothing special about either of them. JuJu is at best a low end #2... MVS is a #3 with poor hands. 

 

The KC receiving corps this year is not very good. It really isn't. The majority of the heavy lifting in that passing game has been Patrick Mahomes who has had an MVP type year. 

 

The response to this will, I know, be "well what about the Bills receiving corps?" I was telling you all that was a major area of concern pre-season when I was still being met with responses about Crowder being a sneaky weapon and how Shakir was gonna have an impact as an outside receiver as a rookie. That was unlikely then and has proved to be such. 

 

Diggs - Knox - Davis

Kelce - JuJu - MVS

 

I don't see a massive difference tbh. If I was ranking those weapons in order I'd go Diggs, Kelce, JuJu, Knox, Davis, MVS. When you look at the production... KC got 2,958 yards and 17 TDs out of their top 3. The Bills got 2,782 and 24 TDs. I think that is pretty close to a wash.

 

Where I DO think KC has an advantage on us is their depth behind that - Hardman, Moore, Toney... McKinnon out of the backfield is superior to McKenzie, Shakir, the ghosts of Beas and Brown and Cook out of the backfield. They also have a better oline and better playcalling.

 

I just think the idea somehow Mahomes has an all star cast he is throwing to is a false narrative. Their top 3 is pretty similar level to the top 3 weapons on the Bills although differently constructed.

Great breakdown. I totally agree with your take. I think the major point of emphasis is the Chiefs have a better Oline and play calling. That could be the difference between winning and losing if the two teams meet again. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by newcam2012

[Gunsgoodtime]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Our OL this season ranked 27th.  And our WR2 was underwhelming.  And this doesn't even include our reluctance to establish a more consistent run attack.  

Our Wr2 was ranked amongst the worst of the Wr3 this year.  Him and McKenzie has been a joke to put on the field with Josh Allen as top recievers

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

coach had a lot to do with the 2nd half comeback. can not deny he is a good coach, not great, but good. I had the jags losing this one but then you have to look at the history of the chargers that always seem to lose in big games. so there was always that chance to win for the jags..

[Steptide]

Figures, I fall asleep at 11 and jags somehow come back and win. 

[JerseyBills]

Jags going to be good going forward.

They got Ridley from ATL next year too 

[Since1981]

I can’t wait to hear more about what Branden HC did. One area I noticed, as soon as jags rushed Herbert they collapsed. I think Chargers OC calls didn’t adapt to Herbert pressures with add hot reads.

No offense, no defense 2H but other than that, great job HC!! Where’s Mike Williams when you need him?

[CEN-CAL17]

I see Sean Payton with the Chargers next year! 

[ArtVandalay]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

"A bunch of scrub WR?"  ROTFL. 

 

Juju Smith Schuster is far from a "scrub WR".  He came close to 1000 yds as a rookie and was pro-bowl with 111 receptions and >1400 yds his 2nd year.  He fell off in 2019 with the likes of Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges throwing to him, and in 2021 when he was injured and only played 5 games, but other than that, he's been what he's been for the Chiefs this year - a 58 yd per game, 77% catch guy.  If he's a scrub and never had it, why did the Chiefs pay him $3.8M on a 1 year "prove you still got it after your injuries" deal?

 

And if Marquez Valdes-Scantling is such a scrub, why did KC offer him 3 years, $30M guaranteed?

 

These guys aren't Davonte Adams or Tyreek Hill, but they're at worst, proven good quality NFL receivers.

 

If he's a scrub, why did KC draft Skyy Moore in the 2nd round?  Kadarius Toney cost next year's 3rd round pick, and of course Mecole Hardmen is a former 2nd round Chiefs pick.  That's a goodly draft pick investment for "a bunch of scrubs.

This is a horrible analysis from top to bottom. 

 

Juju is not very good, which is why even with Mahomes he didn't reach 1k. He had 1 big year in the slot like 4 years ago when he had prime AB pulling all the top coverage and schemes.

 

MVS is trash. Spent his whole career with Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes, has never had 700 yards and has a career high of 42 catches. He's got a good 40 time and teams like his personality. He's dog crap on the field. 

 

Draft status is not an argument for a guy being good especially round 2. Skyy Moore has a chance to be good but he was not ready to contribute this year as a rookie.  Hardman is a perennial disappointment. Toney had 17 targets this year, wasn't acquired until mid year and injured he had minimal impact on the field, has potential in the long run. 

 

Other poster was pretty accurate describing the team as Kelce then scrub WRs. 

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

The change to only 1 bye week has given the #1 seed outsized importance, to be sure. Make no mistake though, if the Bills had been matched up with JAX this board would be full of consternation and worry. No one would be saying they had a ridiculously easy path etc. 

Lol no. You might have a couple people worried sure because there's people that worry about everything, but plenty would see it as easy... but board opinion doesn't matter at the end of the day anyway. Win 1 home game vs a 9-8 team is an easy path make no mistake.  The difference between 1 and 2 seed : bye week then Jaguars at home... or tune up game vs crap Miami,  then home game vs Bengals.

 

The 1 seed is overpowered right now though, it's a problem for a league that bangs its chest over parity. 

[SCBills]

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Other poster was pretty accurate describing the team as Kelce then scrub WRs. 

 

 

 

 

Scrubs is not the right word. Scrubs are guys like Jake Kumerow to me who barely belong on NFL rosters. The types who bounce on and off practice squads.

 

I do think they are JAGs though. And I agree on JuJu's career. His two best years in Pit came when he had, at the time, the best receiver in football opposite him. He is an NFL starter who can catch some balls. But he isn't a weapon. Even with decent yardage production this year... he has 3 touchdowns. When the field condenses in the redzone he struggles to separate. 

[eball]

BOLTSY!!!!

 

Staley has got to go.  Worst coaching ever!

[Golden*Wheels]

Wow...I laid down at halftime, put the game on my phone, drifted off. Woke up to see the Jags going for 2 to pull within 2.

 

what a collapse.

[Donuts and Doritos]

36 minutes ago, eball said:

BOLTSY!!!!

 

Staley has got to go.  Worst coaching ever!

 

Between that collapse, getting players hurt in a meaningless game the week before, & last year's debacle missing the playoffs, with all the talent they have, how do they not move on from Staley?

 

& Maybe just maybe with that kind of lead run the ball a little more & stop going out of bounds to keep that clock ticking.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[YoloinOhio]

Staley gotta be one of the worst coaches in history 

[SirAndrew]

Another crazy comeback in a season that had its share. The Jags deserve credit, but it also speaks to the low quality of play we’ve seen. It takes a lot of mistakes to give up that sort of lead. There’s too much bad coaching in this league, and we’re seeing the results. Teams don’t even attempt to control the clock with big leads, and this stubborn insistence on running a specific system is resulting in big comebacks. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by SirAndrew

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but accomplishments matter too. The QB always gets the glory and vice versa. Until Allen gets a ring he will always be Mahomes understudy. 

Dolphins fans always have such trash takes 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Homilies.  That's what Staley seems good for.  Post game homilies.

[Livinginthepast]

Before the Atlanta collapse in the SB, I never thought a collapse of even 17 pts was possible in the playoffs. But the Chargers didnt just lose the game on the field their collapse was mental. How a team can let another team off the mat like that without applying the dagger to them is absolutely nuts. The Chargers literally panicked and played a perfect game for a Jags comeback in the second half. Sure the plays weren't made and stupid plays were (Bosa esp) but I think that is all on the Staley not preparing his team at the half and not taking chances with the playcalling on Offense in the 2nd. Absolutely outcoached by DP.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

coach had a lot to do with the 2nd half comeback. can not deny he is a good coach, not great, but good. I had the jags losing this one but then you have to look at the history of the chargers that always seem to lose in big games. so there was always that chance to win for the jags..

Pederson is climbing that coaching ladder. Remember he won a SB with Nick Foles!! 

[Billsatlastin2018]

7 hours ago, arcane said:

Dude was a disgrace. 

Al whistles through his crotchety old man teeth now. Embarrassing.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Pederson is climbing that coaching ladder. Remember he won a SB with Nick Foles!! 

The play calling in the Jags first drive of the second half was a master class in getting your QB into a rhythm. It was a 17 play 89 yard drive that consisted of runs. screen passes and short passes with YAC. Really put Lawrence in a place where he could succeed after a really rough start to the game.

[Big Turk]

8 hours ago, Success said:

 

If I saw the graphic right - w/ 3 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter, the Jags had a 1.2% chance of winning.

 

 

Honestly, I am surprised it wasn't lower than that 

[Low Positive]

I’m really kicking myself this morning. I don’t gamble because I don’t need another vice. But I was so sure that the Jags were going to win after they scored that TD late in the second that I downloaded fan duel and was about to place a HT $50 bet on the Jags money line.  It was +2400. I stopped myself. I could be $1,200 richer this morning. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

The play calling in the Jags first drive of the second half was a master class in getting your QB into a rhythm. It was a 17 play 89 yard drive that consisted of runs. screen passes and short passes with YAC. Really put Lawrence in a place where he could succeed after a really rough start to the game.

And on the other side of the coin- the chargers first possssion: run, pass, pass, pass (to the jac 38 yardline), incomplete, incomplete, incomplete, punt.  

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

And on the other side of the coin- the chargers first possssion: run, pass, pass, pass (to the jac 38 yardline), incomplete, incomplete, incomplete, punt.  

Exactly. Up 20 points with a dynamic running back and Lombardi abandons the run. Punting from the opponent’s 38?  I think people overestimate the impact of coaching in wins and losses, but in this case Staley and Lombardi lost the game on the drive right before Pedersen won it.

[NewEra]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Exactly. Up 20 points with a dynamic running back and Lombardi abandons the run. Punting from the opponent’s 38?  I think people overestimate the impact of coaching in wins and losses, but in this case Staley and Lombardi lost the game on the drive right before Pedersen won it.

No doubt.  Coaching is the only reason I can’t blurt out “Miami has no chance today. We’re going to blow them out”.  Yes, we should blow them out, but great game plan (or a terrible game plan) can impact the result of a game as much, if not more, than the players on the field.  

[PatsFanNH]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

You brought up the comparison to Josh Allen. It's a dumb comparison so you are getting called out for it. Nobody here is threatened by Trevor Lawrence potentially being a good QB. They are just making fun of a dumb comparison you made.

Lmao no I didn’t till that message! That message was in response to the person I quoted trying compare what a second year player did to a FOURTH year player did. That is he compared Allen to Lawrence first, I just tried make it a more fair comparison.  What was dumb was the poster I quoted thinking I meant Lawrence = Allen. No what I meant was Lawrence showed more composer and ability than 90% of the NFL Starters out there. 

[Nextmanup]

49 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I’m really kicking myself this morning. I don’t gamble because I don’t need another vice. But I was so sure that the Jags were going to win after they scored that TD late in the second that I downloaded fan duel and was about to place a HT $50 bet on the Jags money line.  It was +2400. I stopped myself. I could be $1,200 richer this morning. 

Forget about it and forget about gambling altogether; it's just a form of giving your money away.

 

It amounts to an entertainment expense; you spend money, you have fun, your short lived experience is gone forever and you are out the money.  Like a nice dinner out, a football game ticket, a 7 day trip to a foreign country, etc...

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I got 18 and put a little on Jags ML😎🤙

 

I saw the Jags were +1400 ML even after scoring a TD before the half. I was tempted but I already contribute too much $$ to Draftkings. But -110 +18.5 when they were down 20, and with momentum, looked like a gimme.

[MJS]

23 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lmao no I didn’t till that message! That message was in response to the person I quoted trying compare what a second year player did to a FOURTH year player did. That is he compared Allen to Lawrence first, I just tried make it a more fair comparison.  What was dumb was the poster I quoted thinking I meant Lawrence = Allen. No what I meant was Lawrence showed more composer and ability than 90% of the NFL Starters out there. 

He wasn't showing much composure while throwing 4 INT's.

 

I get it. He had a good half of football. He is a good QB. He has a bright future. All that is true. Watching that game, though, was more about the Chargers collapsing than Lawrence taking over the game. This is a recurring theme for the Chargers.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Staley gotta be one of the worst coaches in history 

 

Reminds me of Chuck Pagano. Says all the right things at press conferences, seems like a decent guy, but ultimately his teams play far below their talent level on gameday. I'll be shocked if Sean Payton isn't there next year. Maybe someone in that division will finally push KC.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Not going to lie, that comeback meant that I hit on a +750 parley. Thanks Trevor Lawrence! 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

JuJu and MVS are not scrubs. But they are JAGs. There is nothing special about either of them. JuJu is at best a low end #2... MVS is a #3 with poor hands.

 

How on earth do you define "low end #2"?  And then what places Tik Tok Boy into that category in your eyes?

 

I'll hang up and listen.

 

 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Another crazy comeback in a season that had its share. The Jags deserve credit, but it also speaks to the low quality of play we’ve seen. It takes a lot of mistakes to give up that sort of lead. There’s too much bad coaching in this league, and we’re seeing the results. Teams don’t even attempt to control the clock with big leads, and this stubborn insistence on running a specific system is resulting in big comebacks. 

 

I don't remember the exact numbers but the Chargers ran something like 25 pass plays to 9 running plays after going up 27-0. To be fair the Bills lost the Vikings game for a similar reason. The whole NFL has gone way overboard with this super aggressive mindset. Coaches no longer trust themselves to play the game the right way, they worry that if they punt one time too many they'll be fired into the sun by the media. People have rightly given credit to Doug Pederson for going for 2 after the penalty, but near the end of the first half he also punted on a 4th and 2 from the Jacksonville 36 while down 27 points. Some coaches would have gone for it there but Pederson didn't panic. They pinned the Chargers deep, got the ball back, and scored on every single ensuing drive after that. I don't want my coach being aggressive OR conservative by nature. Just let the game come to you and make sensible decisions in the moment. That was the difference in this game.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by HappyDays

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

This is a horrible analysis from top to bottom.

 

Okay

[JerseyBills]

27 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I saw the Jags were +1400 ML even after scoring a TD before the half. I was tempted but I already contribute too much $$ to Draftkings. But -110 +18.5 when they were down 20, and with momentum, looked like a gimme.

I put 20 and won 330 on the ML

 

I was very close to doing it when it was 27 0. It was like +2000

[EasternOHBillsFan]

52 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Forget about it and forget about gambling altogether; it's just a form of giving your money away.

 

It amounts to an entertainment expense; you spend money, you have fun, your short lived experience is gone forever and you are out the money.  Like a nice dinner out, a football game ticket, a 7 day trip to a foreign country, etc...

 

 

 

LMAO

 

Seriously? People can do both, you know... and it's not giving your money away if you win more than you lose.

 

So you don't have a single pleasure that you spend money on like gambling or smoking or drinking? That's not living, that's existing.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

How on earth do you define "low end #2"?  And then what places Tik Tok Boy into that category in your eyes?

 

I'll hang up and listen.

 

 

To me a low end #2 is a guy who nobody is gameplanning for. And that is how I see JuJu. He can catch balls, he can make plays, but nobody is having a specific plan for him they are just playing their defense. 

[SirAndrew]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't remember the exact numbers but the Chargers ran something like 25 pass plays to 9 running plays after going up 27-0. To be fair the Bills lost the Vikings game for a similar reason. The whole NFL has gone way overboard with this super aggressive mindset. Coaches no longer trust themselves to play the game the right way, they worry that if they punt one time too many they'll be fired into the sun by the media. People have rightly given credit to Doug Pederson for going for 2 after the penalty, but near the end of the first half he also punted on a 4th and 2 from the Jacksonville 36 while down 27 points. Some coaches would have gone for it there but Pederson didn't panic. They pinned the Chargers deep, got the ball back, and scored on every single ensuing drive after that. I don't want my coach being aggressive OR conservative by nature. Just let the game come to you and make sensible decisions in the moment. That was the difference in this game.

 

I couldn’t agree more, it’s not about being stubbornly conservative or aggressive, coaches need to have a feel for the game. I lean towards being aggressive, and don’t like to criticize aggressive play calling, regardless of the outcome. However, there’s times when aggressive coaching doesn’t make sense. That’s what’s gotten lost over the past few years. There’s no mathematical formula that can accurately predict wins or losses, but I assume a run heavy offense with a huge lead significantly decreases the odds of a comeback. The clock is a big part of the game, and limited time makes comebacks impossible, yet coaches don’t seem to get it. 

[Barnaby Wilde]

Trever Lawrence rose from the gridiron dead.  What a performance by the whole team.  Correct me if I'm wrong but if Bills win today, that means Jags go to KC?