Cut Singletary

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So we lose money if we cut him. So what I would do is promote Moss as my #1 RB. Give him 60% of the touches and hope he doesn't regress like Devin. I'd love to see Yeldon get more opportunities. I just don't understand why a productive player like TJ gets buried on the roster? Kick the tires on Williams and bury Devin as RB4 insurance, like they did Yeldon.

 

It was because his game day slot was eaten up by needing Taiwan Jones as a ST'er.  Replace Jones with another player that can also

be depth for another position.  Bills need 3 dressed RBs of different styles to match against the particular D scheme for each game.

IMO.

[Watkins90]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

IMO, you can flat out count on Singletary and Brown being gone next year, and replaced with improvements at cheaper Ks.

 

 

It's almost impossible to cut Singletary and get more production out of a cheaper player. People above have already noted that you don't get real cap savings from cutting Singletary due to how the cap works. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So we lose money if we cut him. So what I would do is promote Moss as my #1 RB. Give him 60% of the touches and hope he doesn't regress like Devin. I'd love to see Yeldon get more opportunities. I just don't understand why a productive player like TJ gets buried on the roster? Kick the tires on Williams and bury Devin as RB4 insurance, like they did Yeldon.

I don’t see how we would be losing money if motor is our 4th string rb.  We can sign a UDFA to be our 4th.  He’d be cheaper than motor.
 

Yeldon is a FA.  I doubt he would want to return. 
 

if we don’t add a RB that runs a sub 4.5 40, I’ll be confused.  We need some explosiveness

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, balln said:

 

Saves us 1.1 million

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/

 

 

Draft this guy. Felton. Converted slot WR > now a RB. Let McKenzie and Roberts walk. This guy is a RB/slot WR/ kick returner all in one.

 

Gotta be ruthless

 

 

 

I lime this topic.  And thanks for the draft info and highlight video.  

 

I’m all for Bold moves, but McKenzie will replace Roberts.  Singletary is a decent RB 3, (after draft pick and Moss), but he may face competition from Williams.  I wouldn’t cut him, however.  

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

This is something that could very well come back to bite us in the as*.  If he gets cut, there's no way he dosn't get offers from other teams.  He's a good runner, and receiver, just needs to have a line that can create some running lanes for him.

🤣🤣🤣 he’d be lucky to be a backup on another team imo...dude is practice squad fodder with no above average qualities...

[balln]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

I lime this topic.  And thanks for the draft info and highlight video.  

 

I’m all for Bold moves, but McKenzie will replace Roberts.  Singletary is a decent RB 3, (after draft pick and Moss), but he may face competition from Williams.  I wouldn’t cut him, however.  

yea just thinking out loud. didnt know about the 51 / 52 roster thing. just get better players and get rid of ones you wont use going forward if save money lol

Just now, JaCrispy said:

🤣🤣🤣 he’d be lucky to be a backup on another team imo...dude is practice squad fodder with no above average qualities...

thats what i think. He used to be really elusive. but now in the open field he pretty much goes down immediately with the first defender. honestly his best quaility is hes a tough runner up the middle. but not better than average RBs

[balln]

Time for Senior Bowl 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, balln said:

felton is projected to be a 4th rounder.... also every year you are paying rookies- its a fixed cost each year

 

It's not about the player you propose...it's claiming Singletary is the problem and therefore the only option is to use another mid round pick on a RB.

 

What was clear all season long is the interior OL wasn't opening much for these backs to get through.  That will be addressed, and while it's early, I think management will keep Singletary and Moss.  Continuing to use mid-round picks on RBs is not exponentially going to improve the offense.  

[balln]

Just now, BillsVet said:

 

It's not about the player you propose...it's claiming Singletary is the problem and therefore the only option is to use another mid round pick on a RB.

 

What was clear all season long is the interior OL wasn't opening much for these backs to get through.  That will be addressed, and while it's early, I think management will keep Singletary and Moss.  Continuing to use mid-round picks on RBs is not exponentially going to improve the offense.  

not clear. just as easy to say RBs dont hit hole fast enough get past first line fast enough so our O L can get to 2nd level.  prob is not using picks on players. prob is using 3rd rounders on players that dont make a difference. i dont necessarily think DS is THE problem ... hes just upgradable and if a way to save money by getting rid of him then do it

[Charles Romes]

The fact that Yeldon could not get on the field even with the below average to poor play of Singletary is likely to scare off other free agent RBs from signing with Buffalo. 

[balln]

3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

The fact that Yeldon could not get on the field even with the below average to poor play of Singletary is likely to scare off other free agent RBs from signing with Buffalo. 

he couldnt get on the field bc he wasnt a 3rd rd draft pick by beane and is at his ceiling. although his ceiling is much better than any perceived potential of DS by the FO

[bigK14094]

Last cut in training camp this coming year.  Ends up on Bills Practice Squad.  A rookie will replace him.  (Harris or other with burst)  singletary is a bust...

6 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

The fact that Yeldon could not get on the field even with the below average to poor play of Singletary is likely to scare off other free agent RBs from signing with Buffalo. 

We saw against KC that Yeldon is better.  Bean and McD to loyal to their draft picks.

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, balln said:

 

Saves us 1.1 million

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/

 

 

Draft this guy. Felton. Converted slot WR > now a RB. Let McKenzie and Roberts walk. This guy is a RB/slot WR/ kick returner all in one.

 

Gotta be ruthless

 

 

Felton w/ a nice td in sr bowl just now

[balln]

Just now, BillsShredder83 said:

Felton w/ a nice td in sr bowl just now

F - i MISSED it ....sabres game

[LABILLBACKER]

9 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

The fact that Yeldon could not get on the field even with the below average to poor play of Singletary is likely to scare off other free agent RBs from signing with Buffalo. 

I agree. TJ was clearly a better all around RB then Singletary...... Felton just scores on a nice slant. I watched this kid all year at UCLA. He's a stud RB, KR and WR all in one. And after this Senior Bowl his stock will rise to 2nd round. Trade back into the 2nd and grab him. 

[Aussie Joe]

Yeldon is most likely gone so they need to replace him for starters...

 

i think they try to find someone with one of those Day 3 picks and bring him in to compete with Moss, Devin and Williams..

 

Think it’s likely that Devin is at least No 3 on that list so he will likely take on the Yeldon healthy game day scratch role if he doesn’t get better in the off-season..

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, balln said:

 

Saves us 1.1 million

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/

 

 

Draft this guy. Felton. Converted slot WR > now a RB. Let McKenzie and Roberts walk. This guy is a RB/slot WR/ kick returner all in one.

 

Gotta be ruthless

 

 

1.1 million is nothing.. not looking to resign him to a big dollar contract but there is no point in cutting him. Even 3rd stringers get paid and he is better than most end of the roster running backs. 

[london_bills]

I think he's fine as a second or 3rd option. That drop was massive though, no doubt about that. Don't think a reporter asked Mcd about that

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t see how we would be losing money if motor is our 4th string rb.  We can sign a UDFA to be our 4th.  He’d be cheaper than motor.
 

Yeldon is a FA.  I doubt he would want to return. 
 

if we don’t add a RB that runs a sub 4.5 40, I’ll be confused.  We need some explosiveness

I said we lose cap space if we cut him based on the math.. They're not cutting him. What will likely happen is he will be demoted to RB2 or lower depending on William's development and the draft. Yeldon unfortunately will walk and I can't blame him.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, whorlnut said:

You had me at “cut Singletary”. I have seen enough. I really feel that the game was over once he dropped that pass. The way to beat the chiefs is to keep scoring and put pressure on them. Once the chiefs got the ball, they took the lead and it was all but over. 

Shades of Ronnie Harmon?

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, balln said:

not clear. just as easy to say RBs dont hit hole fast enough get past first line fast enough so our O L can get to 2nd level.  prob is not using picks on players. prob is using 3rd rounders on players that dont make a difference. i dont necessarily think DS is THE problem ... hes just upgradable and if a way to save money by getting rid of him then do it

There were many plays where Singletary and Moss were hit in the backfield or had to elude tacklers in the backfield.  I think they need to improve the run blocking much more than having to replace Singletary and Moss.  Still, I wouldn’t be opposed to finding a true #1 back...

[Big Blitz]

Well something is going to give if we bring in another RB someone between Moss and Singletary is the odd man out.  

 

Singletary could fetch us a 5th round pick at best.  

 

But I'm not cutting him.  He's at least going to compete with Moss and new guy.  And there is going to be a new guy.  

[Adam]

I thought Yeldon looked good in limited opportunities, and Williams did in one game. We are still finding out what we have in Moss because of injuries

[TheBrownBear]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

As a UCLA season ticket holder Felton would be an upgrade over Dingleberry.  He's not Najee Harris but he's much more versatile than 26. I was fed up with Singletary long before that swing pass. Devin just has no burst and shimmies too much upon handoff. 

Yep.  UCLA guy here too.  Felton would be a great fit in our offense in a shared backfield with Moss.  

 

Singletary did one thing well - making guys miss in tight spaces - and we saw none of it this season.

[billsbackto81]

5 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

This is something that could very well come back to bite us in the as*.  If he gets cut, there's no way he dosn't get offers from other teams.  He's a good runner, and receiver, just needs to have a line that can create some running lanes for him.

Not totally off base. He has shown toughness and elusiveness in spurts. I think any RB is gonna have it tough behind this O Line. We just don't have the road graters for a competent run game. Plus most of the offensive scheme is geared to the passing game. I do think it's time to move on but I wouldn't be surprised if he thrived somewhere else with better blocking.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, BillsCuse said:

It only saves 1/2 a million with dead cap.  Agree we need an upgrade, but no point to cut him anytime soon.  If they upgrade, keep him as the 3rd back or try to flip him for a late rounder.

you do not just cut players because they pisseed you off

lol

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Not a great post-season for him. But I also have to say that the Bills didn’t help him out either. They barely give him any touches and when they did, the missed blocks doomed the running plays. And if they had him running more off of read options, he probably looks way more effective.

 

He needs to play better. The team though needs to play better around him.

 

The knee-jerk reactions based solely on the last two games are really amazing. 

This hasnt been a great SEASON for him must less post season....and I do agree with you that he didnt get much help.

 

but

 

Our OC is staying.....we need to find players that fit HIS scheme which means we need RB's that can be productive in small windows and have enough speed to make something happen when they DO make it through the line of scrimmage.

 

I was def rooting for Devin.....in space he is a playmaker.....but essentially Moss brings you everything that Devin does PLUS he runs with more power....can catch.....and is more decisive.   Now we need a back that can actually make big plays with speed to go along with Moss.

[NewEra]

36 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I said we lose cap space if we cut him based on the math.. They're not cutting him. What will likely happen is he will be demoted to RB2 or lower depending on William's development and the draft. Yeldon unfortunately will walk and I can't blame him.

Singletary is already #2.  He should be demoted to 3rd

[Eastport bills]

5 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

This is something that could very well come back to bite us in the as*.  If he gets cut, there's no way he dosn't get offers from other teams.  He's a good runner, and receiver, just needs to have a line that can create some running lanes for him.

Don't blame the o-line, he was timid and went down easy. His 1st year he was elusive, and broke a few tackles. Moss ran harder and even Williams looked good with our O-line. Do you think , Moss and Yeldon would have displaced him if they thought Devin could do anything. He can't pick up blitzes and he's not any good in the screen game. Maybe Sean lights a fire under him, but it's foolish to expect him to be a featured back on this explosive offense. 

[Jauronimo]

That was the one of the least impressive highlight reels i have watched.  The dude was running wide open and rarely had to break a tackle. 

[LABILLBACKER]

22 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Well something is going to give if we bring in another RB someone between Moss and Singletary is the odd man out.  

 

Singletary could fetch us a 5th round pick at best.  

 

But I'm not cutting him.  He's at least going to compete with Moss and new guy.  And there is going to be a new guy.  

I hope there is a new guy. Love to see a 3 man competition. I think eventually Singletary will be the odd man out. Moss will be RB2 and I still think we draft a RB for the 3rd straight year. Still love to get Najee Harris or Demetric Felton. Then restructure the OL blocking schemes. 

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Singletary is already #2.  He should be demoted to 3rd

Actually you have a point there

 

As the season wore on.....you saw a lot more Moss then Singletary and they probably made those evaluations in practice and Devin was getting phased out.   If they feel that Moss is better then they are def going to be looking up upgrade that position in the offseason.

[JMF2006]

5 hours ago, balln said:

yea. but i dont need him on my team anymore. need to pinch pennies.

 

So cut him in Madden  

 

Its going to be long offseason even though they went 15-4. 

13 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

That was the one of the least impressive highlight reels i have watched.  The dude was running wide open and rarely had to break a tackle. 

 

So doing that in the NFL should not be any problem then

Edited January 30, 2021 by JMF2006

[frostbitmic]

Watching the games, I couldn't tell if 20 or 26 was running the ball. The majority of run plays seemed to be squashed after a two yard pick up. Until you have someone to take the #1 or #2 job away from Singletary, it makes no sense to dump him.

 

I've thought about maybe they draft Harris or Ettienne in the first round , but what's the point, they wouldn't get much playing time anyway.

 

I'll give Daboll all the credit in the world for his passing game but his running game seems like an after thought and just plain sucks.

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 hours ago, schoolhouserock said:

I remember one instance when no one was around him. Fine. He dropped the pass in the big game. Yes, that was bad. 0/1 for 0% on “juicy” screens. (BTW, “juicy” is just as ambiguous as “sucks”)

 

Singletary is not so worthless as to be cut.

Did the same thing in the playoff game vs. Houston last year, and in the game vs. AZ this year.  His hands are suspect, and that's being kind.  Never mind top-end speed, he seems to have very little burst or acceleration. 

[Malazan]

6 hours ago, balln said:

not at all. he makes 1.1 million. and would save 500K in cap space. we can do better.

 

He had insane production in college. but hes too slow/small. i think my biggest issues with him is - his lack of pass catching/and hes not making people miss in the open field. 

 

Great, but you don't cut players until you have their replacement. So find the guy who's better than you can cut him in camp if you have 3-4 backs better than him.  

[folz]

I think the Bills' RBs have taken way too much heat from fans for the lack of production in the run game this year, especially Devin.

 

I think the issue with the run game was more about scheme/identity, game plan, and the offensive line. I'm not saying the O-line can't run block, there were some games this year where they did it well. But, when the focus is on the pass, you don't take as many reps in practice or in games in the run game to get in a rhythm and get really good at it. And the same for the running backs. How many times have we heard a RB say that it takes them so many carries before they can get in a rhythm. I mean, there were games this year where the backs didn't get a touch until halfway through the 2nd quarter.

 

The Bills became a pass first team this year...the run game was complimentary, not their bread and butter. The Bills passed almost 60% of the time this season. And that means a lot fewer opportunities for the RBs.

 

So, let's look at those opportunities:

 

Devin averaged 9 carries/game. That's fewer carries/game than 21 other RBs and fewer than even Lamar Jackson. Hell, even Frank Gore got more totes/game than Devin. For reference, Derrick Henry (at the top of the list) averaged 24 carries/game. But, to be fair, let's take the average of the top 17 RBs (in attempts for the year). The top 17 backs average 16 carries/game. Or 7 more carries/game than Devin (across 16 games). But, let's drop that even more. If I take the average attempts for the 13th to 19th place RBs in attempts, they come out at 13-14 attempts/game.

 

Devin averaged a very respectable 4.4 yards/carry this year. If you gave him 5 more carries per game at his 4.4 yard avg, he would have had a 1,000 yard season. Plus, let's not forget that he's sharing the backfield with Moss and that Moss and Josh get most of the goal line carries (which reduces his opportunities for TDs). And Devin did also have 38 recs. for 269 yards, 7.1 yards/rec, and a 76% catch rate.

 

But, let's now add Moss into the equation. Moss averaged just under 9 carries/game (almost even with Singletary) for again, a respectable 4.3 yards/carry. It's hard to compare a RB in a two-back system with a RB on a team where he is the man. So, you kind of have to look at Devin and Moss as one entity. And in that, the closest comparison is Josh Jacobs (who was 8th in the league this year in rushing yards):

 

Jacobs:  273 attempts (18.7 attempts/game)    1,065 yards    3.9 yards/carry    

Devin/Moss: 268 attempts (16.75 attempts/game) 1,168 yards  4.36 yards/carry

 

No question, the run game wasn't great this year and needs improvement, but, again, I think that the lack of focus on the run game had more to do with the perception and production in the run game than the backs "not being good" or anything like that. I'm all for adding more to the mix in the RB room, but no way am I letting Singletary or Moss walk. A rookie and 2nd year player, both third rounders, who have both shown some promise? No. And I'm not spending a first or second day draft pick on a RB. There are many other areas of the team that need upgrading before we worry about RB.

 

Lest we forget what Singletary looked like before we became such a pass happy team this year (when there was more focus on the run game). A player doesn't just lose his ability (barring injury, age, or attitude---none of which applies to Devin) from one year to the next:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by folz

[Augie]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Great, but you don't cut players until you have their replacement. So find the guy who's better than you can cut him in camp if you have 3-4 backs better than him.  

 

AND........it’s generally going to cost you something like some draft capital. You have too weigh how much better is the replacement vs what is it going to cost you to get the new guy. I’d love a speed option with good hands myself, but at what cost? Know that anything in the draft is just another gamble, and ask if might it be more wise to shore up a spot on the OLine or take a shot at a LB, etc? 

 

I trust our guys to make improvements in the run game. They won’t be perfect, because nobody is, despite all the people who want to dwell on every move that doesn’t work out. The Hindsight Crowd is active, but in general I think we do better than most. 

 

Also, at the very least, Singletary will have trade value for a pick later in the draft. You know, that kind of pick Beane loves to use to move around. Having said that, while there may be better options, I’d bet that he’s on our team next year and contributes, just not as RB #1. 

 

 

.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Augie

[purple haze]

7 hours ago, whorlnut said:

You had me at “cut Singletary”. I have seen enough. I really feel that the game was over once he dropped that pass. The way to beat the chiefs is to keep scoring and put pressure on them. Once the chiefs got the ball, they took the lead and it was all but over. 

When you post about the interior of the offensive line keep this same energy.  They’re more an issue than Singletary or Moss.  

[Southern_Bills]

7 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

This is something that could very well come back to bite us in the as*.  If he gets cut, there's no way he dosn't get offers from other teams.  He's a good runner, and receiver, just needs to have a line that can create some running lanes for him.

Receiver?...well ok then.