Anyone else get annoyed when people say Josh Allen’s first 2 seasons were terrible?

[streetkings01]

I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it annoys the crap outta me. His rookie season he was a raw QB that was learning on the job and definitely didn’t play terrible, but didn’t play great either. Year #2 Josh looked like an above average QB that needed to take a step forward but was trending in the right direction. Year #3 he jumps into elite status and all you hear is how did this happen since he was sooooo terrible the past 2 years?!?!

 

It’s like.....did you even watch a Bills game the past 2 seasons or did you only watch the playoff game?

[Dablitzkrieg]

No

[BruceVilanch]

It doesn't bother me, but I think it's funny they were saying how awful he was but he was voted a top 100 player by his peers.

[Warcodered]

I mean it's annoying that it's lazy but I could really care less, usually because the ones that say it are usually lazy reporters who I don't care much about.

[SCBills]

Allen was insanely raw coming out of college and displayed the “wow” factor every game as a rookie.   I get the criticism though. 
 

Last year he was solid.  Average QB with the ability to make elite throws & athletic plays.  Still erratic and too easily hype as his downside.  Voted Top 100 by his peers.  
 

I think a lot of us were hopeful he’d make a massive jump into Year 3.  We had plenty of reason to be hopeful after his Year 2, raw talent, trajectory and the Diggs trade.  

It’s really lazy to say no one saw this coming.  
 

Edited January 5, 2021 by SCBills

[NickelCity]

I'll admit that it can, for me. The narrative this year often seems to fluctuate between Allen's huge progression (true) and Allen's huge turnaround (which is too harsh on his first two years).

Edited January 5, 2021 by NickelCity

[RiotAct]

Nope - that’s in the past now.

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Allen was insanely raw coming out of college and displayed the “wow” factor every game as a rookie.   I get the criticism though. 
 

Last year he was solid.  Average QB with the ability to make elite throws & athletic plays.  Still erratic and too easily hype as his downside.  Voted Top 100 by his peers.  
 

I think a lot of us were hopeful he’d make a massive jump into Year 3.  We had plenty of reason to be hopeful after his Year 2 + the Diggs trade.  

 

 

Wasn't it something along the lines of having 10,000 less throws than the others in his draft class because of his late development/growth? 

[hemma]

Makes it even better.

 

’You fools thought he sucked, but we knew better.”

[DQW87]

Most people that say that have seen the Bills play about 3 games.

[Virgil]

No, because it’s usually followed by how wrong they were 

[Draconator]

Disclaimer: Going off of memory. 

 

In Jim Kelly's third year, the Bills played the Browns in the playoffs (See Ronnie Harmon end zone drop). Allen and the Bills made the playoffs in Allen's 2nd year. The next year the Bills went to the AFC Championship against the Bengals, lost. (Kelly's 4th year I believe). Allen is ahead of Kelly in terms of overall team progression. So to say that Allen sucked, just know that he's ahead of an all time, Hall of Fame great. 

[Charles Romes]

He made a dramatic improvement in his short passing game between year 1 and 2, and his arm strength is acknowledged elite so it was just a matter of time. One thing that struck me when he entered the league as a rookie was his ability to sense and escape pressure. It was also a matter of time before he realized it would be easier to pass than run when he escaped the pocket.    

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Wasn't it something along the lines of having 10,000 less throws than the others in his draft class because of his late development/growth? 

Yes this is his Fifth season of D1+ football

[Simon]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It’s really lazy to say no one saw this coming.  

 

I think a lot of us saw a long run of professional competency coming. 

 

But nobody saw this coming. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

When guys like Nick Wright or Colin Cowherd say it, yes it irks me because in 2018 Allen had a dumpster fire at the skill positions and the offensive line.

 

In 2019 he took a big step forward in reducing the interceptions, staying calm in the pocket. I also think in the lead up to the 2019-season, the Coaching staff figured out that they needed to reduce Allen’s average yards per attempt, we saw this in the Jets and Giants game right away. The Dallas Thanksgiving game they found the right type of routes for Allen’s skill set. He is a direct strike QB in the 10-20 yard range.

 

The Bills relied too much on Frank Gore last year, and it capped top end of the offense. Allen still used his legs to cover for average weapons and an unfinished play style.

 

So they don’t put any context behind it. The entire teams talent level has continued to improve, along with Allen’s talent/work paying off.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[dayman]

On some generic boards I read most people believe he was a bust. I tried to argue a bit but ultimately just gave up. I could make the same mistake with some other team I'm sure ... It isn't like I'm actually above that.

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it annoys the crap outta me. His rookie season he was a raw QB that was learning on the job and definitely didn’t play terrible, but didn’t play great either. Year #2 Josh looked like an above average QB that needed to take a step forward but was trending in the right direction. Year #3 he jumps into elite status and all you hear is how did this happen since he was sooooo terrible the past 2 years?!?!

 

It’s like.....did you even watch a Bills game the past 2 seasons or did you only watch the playoff game?

 

It is almost always done in praise of where he is today. I don’t mind that at all, because Josh deserves all the credit in the world for the work he has put in and how far he has come. 

 

It doesn’t bother me at all. He was that guy then, and he is THIS guy NOW! I love it! 

[DCbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Disclaimer: Going off of memory. 

 

In Jim Kelly's third year, the Bills played the Browns in the playoffs (See Ronnie Harmon end zone drop). Allen and the Bills made the playoffs in Allen's 2nd year. The next year the Bills went to the AFC Championship against the Bengals, lost. (Kelly's 4th year I believe). Allen is ahead of Kelly in terms of overall team progression. So to say that Allen sucked, just know that he's ahead of an all time, Hall of Fame great. 

To build off the above, I recently looked up Kelly's career.  He was 26 his first year as a Bill (went to USFL first).  In 1988, Kelly is 28, Bills make the playoffs and lose to Cincy in AFC Championship game.  

[BillsPride12]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I think a lot of us saw a long run of professional competency coming. 

 

But nobody saw this coming. 

I think he's a year ahead of schedule with the season he's had this year but this was always his ceiling from the day he was drafted and is the reason he was such a high pick to begin with.  As for people saying he looked terrible in his rookie year that really is just laziness.  He looked extremely raw in his rookie year but he always showed flashes.  You could see the progression in year 2 where you knew he wasn't going to be a bust. 

[Michael1962]

I think this year's perfect storm of offensive line, wide receivers, and an improved JA leads those who don't watch the Bills much to assume it is all about JA.

[ColoradoBills]

23 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it annoys the crap outta me. His rookie season he was a raw QB that was learning on the job and definitely didn’t play terrible, but didn’t play great either. Year #2 Josh looked like an above average QB that needed to take a step forward but was trending in the right direction. Year #3 he jumps into elite status and all you hear is how did this happen since he was sooooo terrible the past 2 years?!?!

 

It’s like.....did you even watch a Bills game the past 2 seasons or did you only watch the playoff game?

 

It took Einstein nine years to get a job in academia.

[dayman]

1 minute ago, Michael1962 said:

I think this year's perfect storm of offensive line, wide receivers, and an improved JA leads those who don't watch the Bills much to assume it is all about JA.

 

Well, it's like 80% JA lets be real

[DCbillsfan]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

I think he's a year ahead of schedule with the season he's had this year but this was always his ceiling from the day he was drafted and is the reason he was such a high pick to begin with.  As for people saying he looked terrible in his rookie year that really is just laziness.  He looked extremely raw in his rookie year but he always showed flashes.  You could see the progression in year 2 where you knew he wasn't going to be a bust. 

Has Allen hit the ceiling or is there more?  Can he take over the play calling and run the show like Kelly did or like Manning or Rodgers?  I don't know but I'm not betting against Allen.  The kid is special.

[Michael1962]

2 minutes ago, dayman said:

 

Well, it's like 80% JA lets be real

True but if he had no pass protection and KB, etc. to throw to I don't think he would be in the MVP conversation.

[Orlando Tim]

I never let lazy people bother me since they rarely will put in any effort to try. Josh was terrible his first half of rookie year but was loads better second half and then 2019 he was good except a few games.

[BillsPride12]

10 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

Has Allen hit the ceiling or is there more?  Can he take over the play calling and run the show like Kelly did or like Manning or Rodgers?  I don't know but I'm not betting against Allen.  The kid is special.

To be determined....it is scary to think he can take his game to an even higher level than he is playing right now.  Agreed that he is special.

[CincyBillsFan]

It bugs me because those most guilty of this are being PAID to cover pro football and I can't abide pure laziness.

 

It was clear to those of us paying attention that Allen displayed numerous WOW throws and jaw dropping examples of his athleticism in his rookie year.  His running ability was a real eye opener. But he also showed an ability to extend passing plays and some of his rookie season throws were amazing. 

 

You could assemble a long highlight reel of great Allen throws and runs from his rookie year. Now to be fair you could also assemble a long low light reel where Allen did one dumb thing after anther.  But this was to be expected for a raw rookie surrounded with almost no offensive talent.

 

Jump to year 2 and not only did Allen clearly improve his traditional QBing but he added to his resume of jaw dropping plays, most of which were now with his arm.  Again you could create a long highlight reel showing off his skills but now the low light reel would be much shorter.  For anyone paying attention Allen's improvement from year 1 to year 2 was clear and impressive.

 

Now in year 3 there isn't really anything more to say other then his highlight reel is as long as Gone With the Wind and his low light reel is non existent.

 

 

 

 

[zow2]

That’s why i’m not going to shred Tua, yet.

I Say it for every draft class...Gotta give QBs 3 full seasons before coming to any conclusions.

Some may flame out before they ever get to season 3, while others may be awesome in their first season.  But generally it takes three.

[whatdrought]

Call it a clown detector. If they're saying that it's because they're now admitting they were wrong based on their bias and big media perception. They're just hedging their confession and outing themselves as jokes. 

[oldmanfan]

As one of the old timers here, I can recall a time when QBs were allowed to learn their craft.  But what we have now is a society where everyone expects exactly what they want RIGHT NOW.  In an era of drive thru windows, the Internet giving instant access to whatever, and so on, patience has become an all too precious commodity.

[BananaB]

I get irritated with the Mahommes comparison and how he produced from the start.  Chiefs were a double digit win team and a consistent playoff team before he was even drafted. His two main weapons were there before he was drafted and are still there now. Allen played behind a terrible line and was throwing to Zay, Foster and Benjamin. As we added more talent he has improved, well ***** that’s common sense. It’s still just not just the talent around him that’s improving, it’s his play as well.

 

What I have been hearing lately is a lot of Josh’s success goes to our coaching staff. Sure they deserve credit, that’s their job. Not once have I heard Mahommes has a good coaching staff around him and that has helped him succeed. That Andy Reid guy is just garbage right. 
 

Allen is a ***** freak. In my opinion he’s just catching up to the rest after what he has missed since being over looked in highschool 

Edited January 5, 2021 by BananaB

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Everyone in the sports commentary and sports fan world rates QBs on how they're performing in the moment.  It usually isn't rational but it's what we do.  

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

As one of the old timers here, I can recall a time when QBs were allowed to learn their craft.  But what we have now is a society where everyone expects exactly what they want RIGHT NOW.  In an era of drive thru windows, the Internet giving instant access to whatever, and so on, patience has become an all too precious commodity.

 

It's even worse with head coaches I think.  All the GMs know how valuable continuity is, even through losing seasons, but fans want a head on a pike when a team underperforms and they get what they want.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, streetkings01 said:

I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, but it annoys the crap outta me. His rookie season he was a raw QB that was learning on the job and definitely didn’t play terrible, but didn’t play great either. Year #2 Josh looked like an above average QB that needed to take a step forward but was trending in the right direction. Year #3 he jumps into elite status and all you hear is how did this happen since he was sooooo terrible the past 2 years?!?!

 

It’s like.....did you even watch a Bills game the past 2 seasons or did you only watch the playoff game?

 

 

I don't think any but a very few say he was terrible the last two years.

 

He was pretty bad the first year but there's no way to say that about last year. Last year he was decent. If he'd frozen there, he wouldn't have lasted more than about four years in Buffalo. He wasn't good, but he was OK, and he really did progress during the year. That Pats game was a massive milestone, he was awful, and he took that to heart and simply looked a lot better afterwards.

 

When the occasional person does say he was terrible the last two years, they're being lazy.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He was playing poorly his first year.  52.8% completion percentage is astonishingly low in today's NFL, and he had an upside down TD/INT ratio.  And don't kid yourself there were plenty of people on this board that were calling him a bust his first and second year.  And they watched all the games.  It wasn't just outside media people.  They know who they are.  Some even wanted Barkley to play.  It's the same crowd of people that say Tua is a bust already and Herbert will be a HOF player after less than 1 season of play.  

The truth is he was not ready to play his first year.  He had a cannon arm, more athletic ability than anyone thought, and no idea how to play QB.  After the elbow injury his play got better.  

In his second year, his short to intermediate passes got much better.  Everything was getting better except his deep ball, which was atrocious and still needs some work.  I think there are only a few QBs in history that throw the 10-20 yard pass as well as Allen does.  And he does it in and out of the pocket to all spots on the field.  

This year, he has improved in every phase of the game.  His ball placement is much better.  But the WRs are better too.  The number of drops has gone down dramatically from 36 last year to only 17 this year, and while I can't quantify it, it feels like the number of difficult catches being made has gone up.  Another measure of playing better is the team YAC has gone from 3rd worst to 10th best and an increase of 500 yards.  That is a combination of Allen hitting guys on the move not just stationary targets, and the WR's making great plays.

 

[BillsFan130]

I have friends who are dolphin fans who still aren’t sold on him lol.

 

Josh is always going to have haters

[Thurman#1]

38 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I get irritated with the Mahommes comparison and how he produced from the start.  Chiefs were a double digit win team and a consistent playoff team before he was even drafted. His two main weapons were there before he was drafted and are still there now. Allen played behind a terrible line and was throwing to Zay, Foster and Benjamin. As we added more talent he has improved, well ***** that’s common sense. It’s still just not just the talent around him that’s improving, it’s his play as well.

 

What I have been hearing lately is a lot of Josh’s success goes to our coaching staff. Sure they deserve credit, that’s their job. Not once have I heard Mahommes has a good coaching staff around him and that has helped him succeed. That Andy Reid guy is just garbage right. 
 

Allen is a ***** freak. In my opinion he’s just catching up to the rest after what he has missed since being over looked in highschool 

 

 

 

If you didn't hear that the coaching staff was a major reason for Mahomes being successful so early, I think you've been listening to the wrong people. It's been said a lot, because it makes a lot of sense.

 

He sat the whole year and learned behind Alex Smith who by every account was wildly helpful, and with Andy Reid helping him a ton. Reid is a quarterback whisperer. He has absolutely been huge in Mahomes' fast development.

 

 

[billsbackto81]

Not at all, it's a lazy take on what all armchair GMs were hearing from the so called expert analysts.  We all knew it was going to take savvy from our front office and effort on Josh's part to make this happen. What we're seeing now is the fruit of that labor and what we smell is an order of crow with a side of humble pie.

[HappyDays]

I'll be annoyed for the next 20 years when every time there's a bad rookie QB someone will inevitably say "got to give him a chance, look at what Josh Allen did." People are going to have to accept Allen was a rare prospect and won't be replicated for a generation.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

I'll be annoyed for the next 20 years when every time there's a bad rookie QB someone will inevitably say "got to give him a chance, look at what Josh Allen did." People are going to have to accept Allen was a rare prospect and won't be replicated for a generation.

I mean Allen technically showed signs right from the start. Brandon Bean noted that he saw improvement of his footwork/mechanics between the end of his college career and the Senior Bowl. Past that splitting his seasons in half he's shown clear progression the entire time.

[Doc]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I have friends who are dolphin fans who still aren’t sold on him lol.

 

Josh is always going to have haters

 

LOL!  Even after yesterday?